Friend Or Frenemy: San Diego Author Raises Red Flags On Manipulators

This is KPBS midday edition & I am Morgan Cavanaugh. After a romantic breakup, or after you have been duped, part condor deceived in some way, these sometimes wonder what you should have seen, what signals you might have missed? What red flags you ignored. A new book is all about the clues in use people send out that should put you on alert. It seems that liars, cheats and manipulators come in all shapes and sizes and some of the most dangerous are the most charming& Draining me as this is Wendy Patrick a San Diego district Atty. -- she is out with a new book called red flags. How to spot for enemies, and minors of toxic people in your life. Welcome. Thank you Marine. You say that often the most untrustworthy people make the rest of first impressions. That is absolutely true -- how hard if you think about it if you dress the part, look the part, talk the talk. It really will find is people look up this end up being very happy to treat -- trade in reading glasses for rose-colored glasses very early when pressed with somebody who is essentially attractive. To we instinctively want to believe someone is telling us the truth and putting forward inaccurate representation of themselves? We certainly do Marine. I talk in the book about what psychology teams he terms the Tristan Espy. In other words it easier for us to believe the answer to doubt. Nine other people that are distrust the -- and verify -- they are suspicious of everybody. But that is hard as a cognitive mindset to keep up rockets easier for us to remember the old X-Files. I want to believe. It is easier for us to want to believe. So we tend even though we don't want to admit it -- to take other people at face value. Other criminal cases that you have handled Wendy -- where people have been hurt, they have been manipulated. I somebody that they have trusted. That somebody they have welcomed their lives. Is there -- is there a common thread in how manipulators are able to gain a person's trust? There is. Many players are able to gain 70's trust by making the people feel a certain way. There is this emotional appeal that if somebody is making us feel really good about ourselves, whether it is smartest or the sexiest or the most desirable -- there is eight prey upon vulnerabilities. Whatever the vulnerabilities are because we all have them. We want to trust that person. We want to see more of that person. Because they are a narcotic to us. We love the way they make us feel. Smart to be leaders know this and they take the time to research the prospective victims to figure out where is the -- where's the crack of the armor. Where it is the areas of vulnerability that they can vent phone in onto the trust that they will later exploit. Now most cases of being taken advantage of don't wind up in court. I mean they are bad enough for that. So how are the different ways that these Frienemies and talk to people that you talk about make people and victims? They make people and victims by really being emotionally appealing in the areas of that the victim is looking for. So let me give a couple examples. Any manipulators -- and I will fight the movie -- site the movie dirty rotten scoundrels decimate prey upon a certain class of people that want the tensioner wants affection or is lacking some important emotional need being met. That is a very easy kind of victim to target. And another reason Marine a lot of Internet up and part is the victims are reported. Is that there are crimes out there but sometimes people are really embarrassed that they got taken for a ride. I cannot tell you how many people I have heard say I can't believe I didn't see it coming. How is it that I didn't see it coming. Also on the area of sex offenders -- and I'm very passionate about protecting the community making sure there are no more victims. But online and gosh I hope that there are some people listening to this -- online it is so easy for manipulators that are out there looking for prospective underage victims to misrepresent themselves. And I don't necessarily mean age wise. Because remember their goal is off-line meeting. So they kept their 14 end up walking into a room and clearly they are 40. But if this -- research people for a while. They lurk in chat rooms. And they will use the Internet as a way to hide. They are hiding all the different hues that we can pick up on if we are looking at listing face-to-face. Can you give us an example of a situation where someone missed -- sort of an obvious red flag. I certainly can. And I will go to online dating for a very easy example because it is so -- it is very lucrative to use online dating if you go [ Indiscernible ] to the sites it is easy for the people are using it. And it is a place where people are really overwhelmed by photos. Almost to the exclusion of the other clues. That are present on site. There have been some cases where you get a guy or girl -- I don't want to come in but somebody is on a number dating sites is representing themselves as all kinds of different things on different sites. They are using their own photos on a dog lover site. They are the owner of a Doberman pinscher. They are tested on a handwriting site. They are an excellent hand glider and so on and so forth. In many of the people that use these sites look for the attractive photos and research shows that as much as we know we have got to look further than a pretty face, we don't. So that is -- a very good example of how and why red flags online [ Indiscernible ] I let cyber optics. Social media footprints lead distinctive tracks. But we are dazzled eye things that give us this some sort of visceral appeal and we missed the fine print. Now often friends and family members can spot the bad actors in our lives more quickly than we can. Why aren't they full is easily. I call that the wide angle lens. You want to expose prospective partners and friends to members of your family that are objective. The reason is -- we lose objectivity very quickly which is why the most information you're going to get that will help you is going to be in the first meeting. The first date. The job interview. Whatever it is. Because after that, if we decide we like somebody or we find them emotionally appealing or more often than not, we like the way they make us feel. We have an incentive to ring down our antenna, sort of put our guard down. But our family members and friends -- date on the same incentive and they are in a great position to that these people. And there is a problem when somebody doesn't want to meet your friends and family. That in and of itself is a huge red flag. Because friends and family will be able to call foul whereas we happy to close to the situation to realize that what you're seeing me not be what you're getting. I'm speaking with Wendy Patrick. She is author of a new book called red flags. How to spot Frienemies , under minors and toxic people in your life. So what are some of the areas you recommend looking at when sizing someone up to determine if this nice package they are presenting you with is genuine. And I am talking about the real world now. Right. Well the flag areas are focused, lifestyle Association and goals. Focus has to do with -- what does somebody focus on. What are they interested in. I was give the first date example. Your body, your brain or the ballgame. What Summit is focused on tells you a lot about them. Lifestyle really encompasses everything from what other hobbies -- sometimes I this red flags after five. Where do they go with the workdays over. How do they spend their noon hour. When you look at those kinds of factors, you learn a lot about somebody. It would be like if I reached of right now to your cell phone and look to your photographs. And your screensaver. I would learn a lot about what's important to you. The a is Association -- birds of a feather or guilty by association or however you are put in. You learn a lot by looking at someone's friends. With him today spend their time. And then goals it's the old adage of what we can learn a lot about somebody if you knew what they wished for. When they saw a falling star or tossed a coin into a wishing well. A person's goals and ambitions speak volumes about them that he would not necessarily get by just looking it by listening. So these are four areas may help you regain a sense of objectivity if you take the time to go through them. Because as much as we might like to think we are excellent judges of character, nobody is. And we all could use a little help in the little enhancement and sizing somebody up accurately. I Wendy if you do become suspicious, only person, do you recommend doing a social media search to just find out as much as you can? Absolutely because it's easy to do. It's very easy to do different are already on probably doing it. But we live in a day-to-day were we must expect that a new [ Indiscernible ] or somebody courting us for a job is going to be doing this. That's another reason we should all pay up our Facebook pages and make sure there's nothing out there we don't want anybody to see. There's always an expectation. And sometimes is not necessarily because your suspicious but you're curious. I mean think about -- we become adjusted somebody I mean why not go with them and to if they are involved in talk with sometimes to because we like the person. They captivated us. We are interested in them. So that is one place where we can trust. But verify. Or simply learn more information that is interesting to us. So absolutely. So you are captivated by them but you really have to keep your eyes open if you're looking at somebody on social media -- that is giving you some sort of red light& Our people really have to turn their impressions around to begin even if -- there are things that come up that just don't jive. They certainly are. Very slow to turn impressions around. The first impressions are hard to change. That is true. Especially when we are enjoying the relationship. And it may have been going on for a couple weeks and all the sudden you know how it is -- we are hit with that first piece of rogue information. So now all of a sudden we tossed into a state of chronic and disagreements you would do this. It doesn't fit with the rest? More often than not a somebody has already really become bold emotionally, they get swept under the rug. Sure it might look a red fight to friends and family, but it is sort of a lighter shade of red. And the person that is enjoying the relationship you don't hear alarm bells. Year the tingling of windchimes because you are already involved in the relationship that is so emotionally pleasing to you. So that is what we do when we are faced with rogue information easily rationalize it. We downplay it were we ignore. Now in your book red flags you don't only concentrate on close emotional relationships, you also talk about the red flags that pop up in other people in the broader spectrum of your life. And you make the argument that just because you are familiar with seeing someone, like a neighbor or a coworker -- it doesn't mean that they are okay. That is a huge part of the [ Indiscernible ] and there's a chapter called similarity breeds contentment. Heidi and planes -- plain sight. Think about Castor denote the neighbor said that he the guy that had three goals kidnapped a lot to the basement -- with those neighbors were interviewed, they said we barbecued with this guy every day. We played salsa music with him. Every day we saw this guy. Familiarity breeds contentment he was hiding in plain sight. But nobody had ever been inside the house. This is the ax murderer next-door syndrome. What are the neighbors of the ax murderer always do their interview -- but he seemed like such a nice guy. And we take that further and ask why did he seem like such a nice guy? You find out they knew virtually nothing about him. And they saw him everyday. So familiarity studies show on its own -- whether or not you can even speak to somebody. They begin to like them he had elect them. It's that easy. Now you are prosecutor Wendy. It is part of your job to be skeptical of the stories you hear and the people you meet. Is there a downside to that? To not being this trusting person that may miss a few red flags? Oh absolutely. And you don't have to be a prosecutor or a lawyer to be in a suspicious mindset. I meet people all the time that it just so suspicious of everybody and everything and that's the way to live. And the reason that -- one of the reasons I wrote this book is to maybe try to come up with an easier formula that always being suspicious. In other words the silver lining -- is there always -- there always are things you do right of the bat. Things to look at. Things to analyze that will help you separate the dangerous from the desirable. Sooner rather than later. Which will reappear time to pursue good relationships. There is a whole chapter on green tights -- I'm sorry -- green lights. So it's not just red flags, it's green lights. The because the people are as good as they look at one of the executive for 20 years in the legal profession is Busby most people are good. Was able try to be good& They want to be good. Ironically even though I see the worst of the worst, but it is not the case that most people you meet are going to be bad. But you just want to not waste your time with his people. While in your book -- when you're analyzing what people do see who are -- how red flag were the -- to people often not only missed the red flags, but turn their backs on what they might mean to going forward with any kind of relationship with this person? Absolutely. Infect Lotensin people become emotionally involved -- or if they need the services of appeals for some particular reason yet& I'm a chapter a ability you have the incentive to talk about -- in order to try to gain with their getting out of the relationship. Is a great example I give the guy called the arm term -- is the person that once an attractive date -- and again not to become the guys -- I am sure Limited is also but there are reasons at somebody takes something else feel so desirable and so wanted and they are so proud to be in their company. When you really kind of forget about the fact that maybe this person has never asked or never had a personal conversation with me. Or never gone out with me alone -- is always a banquet or social event or hotspot or trendy spot in town. There are reasons that people make others feel good about themselves that give them insert incentive to template redlines at sometimes they not only see the big knowledge. They are getting something out of the relationship. And for a lot of people that you need to say but for a lot of people that have spoken to, some of them will say the fair trade. Trust but they are fine. I have been speaking with Wendy Patrick -- her new book is called red flags. On the spot frienemies, under minors and toxic people in your life. Wendy, thank you so much. Thank you.

This is KPBS midday edition & I am Morgan Cavanaugh. After a romantic breakup, or after you have been duped, part condor deceived in some way, these sometimes wonder what you should have seen, what signals you might have missed? What red flags you ignored. A new book is all about the clues in use people send out that should put you on alert. It seems that liars, cheats and manipulators come in all shapes and sizes and some of the most dangerous are the most charming& Draining me as this is Wendy Patrick a San Diego district Atty. -- she is out with a new book called red flags. How to spot for enemies, and minors of toxic people in your life. Welcome. Thank you Marine. You say that often the most untrustworthy people make the rest of first impressions. That is absolutely true -- how hard if you think about it if you dress the part, look the part, talk the talk. It really will find is people look up this end up being very happy to treat -- trade in reading glasses for rose-colored glasses very early when pressed with somebody who is essentially attractive. To we instinctively want to believe someone is telling us the truth and putting forward inaccurate representation of themselves? We certainly do Marine. I talk in the book about what psychology teams he terms the Tristan Espy. In other words it easier for us to believe the answer to doubt. Nine other people that are distrust the -- and verify -- they are suspicious of everybody. But that is hard as a cognitive mindset to keep up rockets easier for us to remember the old X-Files. I want to believe. It is easier for us to want to believe. So we tend even though we don't want to admit it -- to take other people at face value. Other criminal cases that you have handled Wendy -- where people have been hurt, they have been manipulated. I somebody that they have trusted. That somebody they have welcomed their lives. Is there -- is there a common thread in how manipulators are able to gain a person's trust? There is. Many players are able to gain 70's trust by making the people feel a certain way. There is this emotional appeal that if somebody is making us feel really good about ourselves, whether it is smartest or the sexiest or the most desirable -- there is eight prey upon vulnerabilities. Whatever the vulnerabilities are because we all have them. We want to trust that person. We want to see more of that person. Because they are a narcotic to us. We love the way they make us feel. Smart to be leaders know this and they take the time to research the prospective victims to figure out where is the -- where's the crack of the armor. Where it is the areas of vulnerability that they can vent phone in onto the trust that they will later exploit. Now most cases of being taken advantage of don't wind up in court. I mean they are bad enough for that. So how are the different ways that these Frienemies and talk to people that you talk about make people and victims? They make people and victims by really being emotionally appealing in the areas of that the victim is looking for. So let me give a couple examples. Any manipulators -- and I will fight the movie -- site the movie dirty rotten scoundrels decimate prey upon a certain class of people that want the tensioner wants affection or is lacking some important emotional need being met. That is a very easy kind of victim to target. And another reason Marine a lot of Internet up and part is the victims are reported. Is that there are crimes out there but sometimes people are really embarrassed that they got taken for a ride. I cannot tell you how many people I have heard say I can't believe I didn't see it coming. How is it that I didn't see it coming. Also on the area of sex offenders -- and I'm very passionate about protecting the community making sure there are no more victims. But online and gosh I hope that there are some people listening to this -- online it is so easy for manipulators that are out there looking for prospective underage victims to misrepresent themselves. And I don't necessarily mean age wise. Because remember their goal is off-line meeting. So they kept their 14 end up walking into a room and clearly they are 40. But if this -- research people for a while. They lurk in chat rooms. And they will use the Internet as a way to hide. They are hiding all the different hues that we can pick up on if we are looking at listing face-to-face. Can you give us an example of a situation where someone missed -- sort of an obvious red flag. I certainly can. And I will go to online dating for a very easy example because it is so -- it is very lucrative to use online dating if you go [ Indiscernible ] to the sites it is easy for the people are using it. And it is a place where people are really overwhelmed by photos. Almost to the exclusion of the other clues. That are present on site. There have been some cases where you get a guy or girl -- I don't want to come in but somebody is on a number dating sites is representing themselves as all kinds of different things on different sites. They are using their own photos on a dog lover site. They are the owner of a Doberman pinscher. They are tested on a handwriting site. They are an excellent hand glider and so on and so forth. In many of the people that use these sites look for the attractive photos and research shows that as much as we know we have got to look further than a pretty face, we don't. So that is -- a very good example of how and why red flags online [ Indiscernible ] I let cyber optics. Social media footprints lead distinctive tracks. But we are dazzled eye things that give us this some sort of visceral appeal and we missed the fine print. Now often friends and family members can spot the bad actors in our lives more quickly than we can. Why aren't they full is easily. I call that the wide angle lens. You want to expose prospective partners and friends to members of your family that are objective. The reason is -- we lose objectivity very quickly which is why the most information you're going to get that will help you is going to be in the first meeting. The first date. The job interview. Whatever it is. Because after that, if we decide we like somebody or we find them emotionally appealing or more often than not, we like the way they make us feel. We have an incentive to ring down our antenna, sort of put our guard down. But our family members and friends -- date on the same incentive and they are in a great position to that these people. And there is a problem when somebody doesn't want to meet your friends and family. That in and of itself is a huge red flag. Because friends and family will be able to call foul whereas we happy to close to the situation to realize that what you're seeing me not be what you're getting. I'm speaking with Wendy Patrick. She is author of a new book called red flags. How to spot Frienemies , under minors and toxic people in your life. So what are some of the areas you recommend looking at when sizing someone up to determine if this nice package they are presenting you with is genuine. And I am talking about the real world now. Right. Well the flag areas are focused, lifestyle Association and goals. Focus has to do with -- what does somebody focus on. What are they interested in. I was give the first date example. Your body, your brain or the ballgame. What Summit is focused on tells you a lot about them. Lifestyle really encompasses everything from what other hobbies -- sometimes I this red flags after five. Where do they go with the workdays over. How do they spend their noon hour. When you look at those kinds of factors, you learn a lot about somebody. It would be like if I reached of right now to your cell phone and look to your photographs. And your screensaver. I would learn a lot about what's important to you. The a is Association -- birds of a feather or guilty by association or however you are put in. You learn a lot by looking at someone's friends. With him today spend their time. And then goals it's the old adage of what we can learn a lot about somebody if you knew what they wished for. When they saw a falling star or tossed a coin into a wishing well. A person's goals and ambitions speak volumes about them that he would not necessarily get by just looking it by listening. So these are four areas may help you regain a sense of objectivity if you take the time to go through them. Because as much as we might like to think we are excellent judges of character, nobody is. And we all could use a little help in the little enhancement and sizing somebody up accurately. I Wendy if you do become suspicious, only person, do you recommend doing a social media search to just find out as much as you can? Absolutely because it's easy to do. It's very easy to do different are already on probably doing it. But we live in a day-to-day were we must expect that a new [ Indiscernible ] or somebody courting us for a job is going to be doing this. That's another reason we should all pay up our Facebook pages and make sure there's nothing out there we don't want anybody to see. There's always an expectation. And sometimes is not necessarily because your suspicious but you're curious. I mean think about -- we become adjusted somebody I mean why not go with them and to if they are involved in talk with sometimes to because we like the person. They captivated us. We are interested in them. So that is one place where we can trust. But verify. Or simply learn more information that is interesting to us. So absolutely. So you are captivated by them but you really have to keep your eyes open if you're looking at somebody on social media -- that is giving you some sort of red light& Our people really have to turn their impressions around to begin even if -- there are things that come up that just don't jive. They certainly are. Very slow to turn impressions around. The first impressions are hard to change. That is true. Especially when we are enjoying the relationship. And it may have been going on for a couple weeks and all the sudden you know how it is -- we are hit with that first piece of rogue information. So now all of a sudden we tossed into a state of chronic and disagreements you would do this. It doesn't fit with the rest? More often than not a somebody has already really become bold emotionally, they get swept under the rug. Sure it might look a red fight to friends and family, but it is sort of a lighter shade of red. And the person that is enjoying the relationship you don't hear alarm bells. Year the tingling of windchimes because you are already involved in the relationship that is so emotionally pleasing to you. So that is what we do when we are faced with rogue information easily rationalize it. We downplay it were we ignore. Now in your book red flags you don't only concentrate on close emotional relationships, you also talk about the red flags that pop up in other people in the broader spectrum of your life. And you make the argument that just because you are familiar with seeing someone, like a neighbor or a coworker -- it doesn't mean that they are okay. That is a huge part of the [ Indiscernible ] and there's a chapter called similarity breeds contentment. Heidi and planes -- plain sight. Think about Castor denote the neighbor said that he the guy that had three goals kidnapped a lot to the basement -- with those neighbors were interviewed, they said we barbecued with this guy every day. We played salsa music with him. Every day we saw this guy. Familiarity breeds contentment he was hiding in plain sight. But nobody had ever been inside the house. This is the ax murderer next-door syndrome. What are the neighbors of the ax murderer always do their interview -- but he seemed like such a nice guy. And we take that further and ask why did he seem like such a nice guy? You find out they knew virtually nothing about him. And they saw him everyday. So familiarity studies show on its own -- whether or not you can even speak to somebody. They begin to like them he had elect them. It's that easy. Now you are prosecutor Wendy. It is part of your job to be skeptical of the stories you hear and the people you meet. Is there a downside to that? To not being this trusting person that may miss a few red flags? Oh absolutely. And you don't have to be a prosecutor or a lawyer to be in a suspicious mindset. I meet people all the time that it just so suspicious of everybody and everything and that's the way to live. And the reason that -- one of the reasons I wrote this book is to maybe try to come up with an easier formula that always being suspicious. In other words the silver lining -- is there always -- there always are things you do right of the bat. Things to look at. Things to analyze that will help you separate the dangerous from the desirable. Sooner rather than later. Which will reappear time to pursue good relationships. There is a whole chapter on green tights -- I'm sorry -- green lights. So it's not just red flags, it's green lights. The because the people are as good as they look at one of the executive for 20 years in the legal profession is Busby most people are good. Was able try to be good& They want to be good. Ironically even though I see the worst of the worst, but it is not the case that most people you meet are going to be bad. But you just want to not waste your time with his people. While in your book -- when you're analyzing what people do see who are -- how red flag were the -- to people often not only missed the red flags, but turn their backs on what they might mean to going forward with any kind of relationship with this person? Absolutely. Infect Lotensin people become emotionally involved -- or if they need the services of appeals for some particular reason yet& I'm a chapter a ability you have the incentive to talk about -- in order to try to gain with their getting out of the relationship. Is a great example I give the guy called the arm term -- is the person that once an attractive date -- and again not to become the guys -- I am sure Limited is also but there are reasons at somebody takes something else feel so desirable and so wanted and they are so proud to be in their company. When you really kind of forget about the fact that maybe this person has never asked or never had a personal conversation with me. Or never gone out with me alone -- is always a banquet or social event or hotspot or trendy spot in town. There are reasons that people make others feel good about themselves that give them insert incentive to template redlines at sometimes they not only see the big knowledge. They are getting something out of the relationship. And for a lot of people that you need to say but for a lot of people that have spoken to, some of them will say the fair trade. Trust but they are fine. I have been speaking with Wendy Patrick -- her new book is called red flags. On the spot frienemies, under minors and toxic people in your life. Wendy, thank you so much. Thank you.