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Comments made by expat

UCSD Student Suspended For Hanging Noose

gerold,
thank you again for an elegant and insightful contribution. I especially feel complimented as a UCSD student. Thanks.

March 2, 2010 at 7:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Sorting Through Race Relations At UCSD

LC, you are throwing a few things together. The rise of Neo-Nazism is not the direct result of the ban on free speech. For one, in many countries, and most imporantly to this topic in Germany, right-wing parties are still protected, but not the explicit link of Nazism nor the declared goal to abolish democracy. Austria and Germany have the same problem in not having dealt with the problem. The historical comparison closest to it in the U.S. is the KKK rising out of the lack of civic engagement of the state after reconstruction.
Also, the Tea Party is not a party, nor do they see themselves as one. They are an aggregation and accumulation of protest potential, something that happens in Europe constantly and that brought about the Green parties, thenew Left parties like in Germany, and the Pirate Party. The Pirate Party and the German Left Party are young, so their grassroots protest nature is still visible. Here, because of the two-party system, protest has to form itself outside the parties and then be taken in by them. The comparable parties to the Republicans wouldn't be the people's parties but usually the Chrisitian conservatives.
I don't think the jury will ever convene to pass a sentence, it is a matter of philosophy and personal choice.
Wow, we are way off-topic, huh.

March 1, 2010 at 7:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Sorting Through Race Relations At UCSD

gerold, come oooooon! Ovaries? You are seriously trying to sell me on the idea that "grow a pair" is short for "grow a pair of ovaries???" Really??? Who is being childish now ? (An insult that I choose to ignore for now but have indeed registered)
There is nothing wrong with the "long version" you stated above, but do you see why the one is perhaps a more appropriate statement than the other? OK, end of that formalist discussion, I know we both get it, no problem on this side of the keyboard.

I agree 100% with the image of the simmering pot. I would like to add, however, that I find the lip services on the administration's part yet another band-aid with which they tried to keep the lid down. Well, it didn't work and that is a good thing. This needed some air, and we got it. I have no issue with discussion, I (obviously) enjoy it here (a little too much perhaps, for which I apologize), but the party is just not a statement in an ongoing debate. It is a symptom of the problem that is being discussed, not a comment in that discussion.

Oh well, I know that my position isn't the American one and I accept that things are seen differently here. I am too much a product of the Second World War as to agree with 100% free speech. Several European countries tried it and failed miserably. But the United States have a different history that is complicated in its own right and that leads to different attitudes to the same problems. I don't claim to be right, I just say that I don't believe in unlimited free speech. Too costly for my taste, but again, it ain't my call to make and I understand and respect the American position.

LC, I know when the election was. But when did the signs appear? The whole disgusting campaign started WAY before November, no? You mentioned the signs, I merely asked because that seemed the most logical time to me. If that was smack during the quarter, then the worse for UCSD that nobody spoke out. They were all still busy with the Loft or some other nonsense. I wish they instead would project the People's History of UCSD youtube video onto the Price Center walls, so that these kids can learn where they are going to school.

February 28, 2010 at 4:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

UCSD Student Suspended For Hanging Noose


Statement of UC President Mark G. Yudof, the Chancellors of the ten UC campuses, and the Chair and Vice Chair of the Universitywide Academic Senate
February 26, 2010

As leaders of the University of California, we are deeply disturbed by recent events at a few of our campuses. We condemn all acts of racism, intolerance and incivility. Regardless of how such offenses are rationalized, or what free speech rights they purport to express, the acts we have witnessed are unacceptable. The actions of these individuals reflect neither our principles nor our values, nor the sentiments of the University of California community. We will not allow the actions of a few to speak for this University. We denounce them.

Each of our campuses is committed to promoting and defending a learning environment that values and supports each student, faculty and staff member in an atmosphere that is open, civil, fair, caring and respectful. These values are enshrined in the "Principles of Community" each campus adheres to and that clearly outline our expectations for behavior on our campuses. We expect that all members of our university community, including our visitors, will be respectful of differing views, opinions, experiences, and background.

When violations occur, it is incumbent on us, as leaders and as stewards of free speech on our campuses, to push back. We have a responsibility to speak out against activities that promote intolerance or undermine civil dialogue. As always, the remedy for bad speech is good speech. For that reason, we call on all members of the UC community – students, faculty and staff – to affirm and defend the values of the University of California. We are speaking out and ask that you do the same whenever, wherever and however you confront behavior that violates the principles and values of this University.

Mark G. Yudof
President
University of California Henry Powell
Chair
UC Academic Senate Daniel Simmons
Vice Chair
UC Academic Senate

Robert J. Birgeneau
Chancellor
UC Berkeley Linda P.B. Katehi
Chancellor
UC Davis Michael V. Drake, M.D.
Chancellor
UC Irvine

Gene Block
Chancellor
UC Los Angeles Steve Kang
Chancellor
UC Merced Timothy P. White
Chancellor
UC Riverside

Marye Anne Fox
Chancellor
UC San Diego Susan Desmond-Hellmann
Chancellor
UC San Francisco Henry T. Yang
Chancellor
UC Santa Barbara

George Blumenthal
Chancellor
UC Santa Cruz

February 28, 2010 at 4:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Racial Tensions At UCSD Continue

CD,
So you blame Sharon Tate for making Manson famous, too? Just saying, structurally your comment has its logic reversed. There is a causality here, and it is not the BSU.

Please give me a quote so I know just which of these demands is "unreasonable" and "racist." I find them all absolutely relatable. Hard to finance, maybe, and less comfortable than continuing to ignore the minority student body, certainly. But I didn't read anything as unreasonable. Even if they were, what kind of message sends this to students? Hey, in case you are being idealistic, don't demand a thing, we'll ignore you, deciding who gets to play and who doesn't . That is exactly the attitude that caused this mess.

Re:1: Whites are globally somewhere around 20%. We are a minority and should get used to the idea unless we want to start killing again. And to whose detriment is the BSU protest? I for one think they make UCSD a better place and continue its proud history of civil dissent.

Re: 2: So because it happens that means we have to live with it? How is that?

Re: 3: I don't know if he is lying, he may have been there or not. I heard that he wasn't and that they just used his image. Either way, the event was by UCSD students, identifying themselves as the Regents community--regents of what, I ask you--for UCSD students.
Again, just because worse has been and continues to be done somewhere else does not mean that these students have to shut up. If that were so, nobody should have been allowed to complain about anything after the Thirty Years War, or certainly World War II. But that is not so. Logical fallacy.

Re: camel: Again the whole "if you can't handle this, then you're too sensitive." Well, it is not your place to decide how others are supposed to feel now, is it? They have every right to feel any way they please. And they have a right to be heard in the discussion about how the community sees itself.

Re: "racism:" Blaming the victim, nice move there. Do you also defend those litigation rulings in which the homeowner has to pay a burglar for injuries sustained while breaking in?

Exaggerating and distorting your opponent's claim is just a step above ad hominem arguments. Where is all this anger coming from, CD? What is the problem with sitting down and talking about it?

February 28, 2010 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Sorting Through Race Relations At UCSD

LC, I draw a line FROM the party to the noose, not between them. They are symptoms, not the problem. The Koala can be endured, I believe, but it is sad that a once-funny publication now is so disgusting...and that these kids don't even seem to get why it isn't funny to watch them roll around in their own feces.

Ignorantia legis neminem excusat--that goes for the ignorance of hate symbols, too. I am very sorry for the individual who crosses the line, but I believe that there are zero-tolerance spaces. If they don't get the message, then that is a tough break, and I believe in public service and re-education more than incarceration and capital punishment, so I wouldn't propose locking whoever did it up in a hole where they'll meet real white supremacists. However, there are things I will never tolerate under any circumstances, including ignorance. I don't say it's not a rough world, but theses kids already entered it when they left their parents' back yard pools, and they must understand that rules apply to everybody.

I concur largely with your views on K-12 but also have few practicable ideas how to fix it all. It is simply depressing and will certainly widen the achievement gap further in the future.

Hmmm, interesting. Wasn't that during summer break, though? You can do lots of things when school is not in session. I think LGBT should have reacted, but that's not my call to make. I agree with your view on the Prop 8 campaign, and although a different topic, it is related. Many of our students hold extremely confused notions on what they believe. They shlep around all this stuff their environment rewarded them for parroting, but they don't understand that they have no basis to back it up, that it sounds lame and preachy, and that they need to become independent. My hunch is that these signs go along with that, put there by students who hold very confused notions on religion, conservative social values, and family values. It is hard to make them understand that they have no idea what they are talking about and that they have to go hit the books--or at least websites--if they want to back up their talk. Again, something that is not at all supported by a campus run like a training facility for experts, but not like a university.

February 28, 2010 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

UCSD Student Suspended For Hanging Noose

Hey oldy...no fair, what about all the protesters? They'll have UCSD degrees, no?

February 28, 2010 at 8:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

UCSD Student Suspended For Hanging Noose

Oh dear, really, LC? I didn't notice that. I apologize of course, and I of course am in no way close to a Mugabe supporter. (shudder) On a side note, I'd be interested in your sources on that, I couldn't find anything. The site is from Trinidad&Tobago, and it is widely linked on Trini sites. http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/raceand... .

Be that as it may, the most relevant passages by author Tim Wise--I hope that clears up the source question (timwise.org)--run:

"And finally, to argue-as supporters of the model minority myth do-that Asians "have made it, so why can't blacks," is to misunderstand the issue of moral and ethical responsibility to correct the harm of wrongful actions.

Even if we accept the notion that groups victimized by racism can "make it" without assistance, affirmative action, or reparations, that would not deny (or indeed speak to in any way) the fact that society has an obligation to compensate the victims of injustice. After all, if my leg is blown off in an industrial accident, it hardly matters that many people with only one leg go on to succeed. The issue of compensatory justice remains, irrespective of what gains one can make without compensation.

[...]

Those who trumpet "Asian values and culture" (based on stereotypical understandings of both, not unlike the white guys who covet mail-order Asian brides for their anticipated "docility"), do Asians no favors. If anything, they set them up in a way that not only harms the groups against which they are contrasted, but in a way that harms Asians as well.

To be considered a group filled with math and science geniuses and passive, sensual, and willing female companions, not only objectifies Asian Pacific Americans, but results in a special stigma for those in the various Asian groups who aren't good in school, don't know how to fix your computer nor care to do so, or who don't fit the sexist stereotypes that are so comforting to Western male tastes.

The model minority myth, in other words, is a setup: a carrot offered to certain groups so long as they don't get out of line, assert their rights, strike for better wages, or try to determine their own sexuality. And as with all carrots, there is an even bigger stick, ready to throttle those who don't go along with the game.

Ultimately, justice and equity will remain elusive so long as whites feel no compunction about using one group of color against another group of color, in an attempt to make fools of both." http://raceandhistory.com/selfnews/pr...

But I don't even need that source. Any quick web search finds tons of facts for those who care to know that to bring APA into the discussion is to try and change the subject, often with wrong arguments.
http://www.wcl.american.edu/journal/l... (Washington College of Law)
Crystal, D. (1989). Asian Americans and the myth of the model minority. Social Casework,
70 (7), 405-413.

February 28, 2010 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

UCSD Student Suspended For Hanging Noose

my friend, respect others and don't jump to conclusions. I spend most of my week on campus, have no worries. I know its history, do you? Here's a hint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lbT0n... , esp. 24:30 and on. In a 2007 video the need for safe spaces is confirmed. Between Revelle, and Muir, Marshall, Warren, and Roosevelt, and even Sixth, I reserve the right to speak as a member of the UCSD community, but thanks anyway.

Again, the problem, as LC knows very well, is the whitening of campus, in which the myth of model minorities is applied to further stereotypes against other groups. (in case that doesn't mean anything to you, fyi: http://www.raceandhistory.com/selfnew...)

Ignorance means exactly what the word says: the lack of awareness of the own ignorance, distinguishing it from malice. The lack of awareness as that girl and her friends were winding the rope into a noose is the tragedy. Would you excuse kids for just drawing swastikas? I choose not to accept this kind of behavior.

The "caucasian area" is indeed a response to SDJon9201, and perhaps overly short for: UCSD was founded and built by white people, is run by a homogenous administration and faculty, shows displays of its founding that excludes peoples of color, and that refuses to return the sacred remains on which it is built to the Natives from whom this land was taken. The art is caucasian, the political leadership is caucasian, so how exactly, is my question, should Caucasians be able to create a caucasian space???

Ear: I know who sits in the White House and I am grateful for it every day. But he was elected despite his ethnicity, not because of it or because nobody cared. This is not post-racial America, and it will not be until kids stop having delusional ideas about race, which is exactly the proof that race is still very much alive and kicking--in the U.S. and certainly at UCSD.

February 27, 2010 at 10:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal )