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( janejanebobane )

Comments made by janejanebobane

Documentary Attempts To Lift The Curtain On Prop 8

Jocelyn,
I apologize. My response looked like it was aimed mostly at you, and it wasn't intended that way. This has been a lively discussion with many contributors and my last post was summarizing much of that. I was specifically addressing you about the lawsuits. And the comment about the Bible was primarily aimed at another poster, and anyone else that is tempted to cast aspersions on the Bible without knowing what it says in full.

Since you are a Christian and do have a different point of view from me, I would love to have a discussion with you offline if you would entertain it. I've set up an account: kpbs_listener@hotmail.com. I hope to hear from you.

June 23, 2010 at 8:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Documentary Attempts To Lift The Curtain On Prop 8

If the purpose of this blog is to dump emotion, and continue to rally your own team with half truths, that's unfortunate. I listen to KPFK, NPR and KPBS because I want to learn and understand points of view that are different than mine. You should be open to hearing both sides, accepting FACTS, and if you are compassionate, try to understand opposing views. My intention is not to "pick apart". I'm exposing irrational thinking and untruths being spread in the interview and within the posts. So far, I hear a lot of emotion and belittling and quite a bit of hypocrisy.

Jocelyn, you are requesting the "Religious Right", as we are called, to ignore actual cases where OUR rights are being threatened. I think you are being naive; look at history. Sweeping social change always started with, as you put it, "pot-stirrers who try to create uproars". These are not, again as you put it, "ridiculous lawsuits." These are foundations upon which other similar lawsuits will rest and hinge. The fact that these people had other options and other businesses they could have used, shows that the lawsuits were punitive. Those cases prove that the LGBT movement is not going to stop at the church doorstep as so many are claiming. And please, before you say it, don’t compare this to overturning racial discrimination. The Bible doesn’t teach that any race is inferior to another, but it does say homosexuality is wrong. People, read the Bible, cover to cover, and earnestly seek the WHOLE message before you comment on it. What's going on here is like me taking what Perez Hilton says and using it as a wide brush against the LGBT.

randolphslinky, I've tried to ignore your bitter posts, but I'll say this. We are both fighting for what we feel is right. You hold your beliefs, and I hold mine. The difference between us is that #1- you are acting mean and angry #2 - I am willing to admit exactly where I stand and back it up with facts as to why I am threatened with gay marriage passing. Your logic is irrational: “I support equality for all tax paying Americans” – Except when they don’t agree with you. If you truly believed in equality for all Americans, then I think you would show more respect for other people’s religious beliefs, whether you agree with them or not. Your angry, sarcastic posts show more about what’s going on inside you personally, than it does about the cause you are championing.

I honestly believe that gay couples should have every right as hetero married couples, and I don't agree with degrading or being derogatory to homosexuals. But with the passing of gay "marriage" laws, I can see my religious rights being taken away, and that's worth fighting for.

June 23, 2010 at 1:17 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Documentary Attempts To Lift The Curtain On Prop 8

n2dgroove, I am sympathetic to your pain, but respectfully disagree with much of what you say here.
"Churches already have first amendment protections for freedom of religion. Freedom for gays to marry would not trump that right" (I say, not yet, but your side is working on that). "Churches today can pick and choose who to marry (again I say, yes, as of today, but your side is working to erode that too) "...just like the Catholic church can refuse to marry divorced people if they choose. Churches can even refuse to perform inter-racial marriages if that is outside of their belief systems". (Incorrect-- see Loving vs. Virginia, which ended all race-based legal restrictions on marriage in the United States).

Let's look at real world examples of why I disagree, and how the LGBT agenda is being pushed on religious organizations/people. This is from an article on NPR.
Yeshiva (a private Jewish) University was ordered to allow same-sex couples in its married dormitory. A Christian school has been sued for expelling two allegedly lesbian students. Catholic Charities abandoned its adoption service in Massachusetts after it was told to place children with same-sex couples. The same happened with a private company operating in California. A psychologist in Mississippi who refused to counsel a lesbian couple lost her case, and legal experts believe that a doctor who refused to provide IVF services to a lesbian woman is about to lose his pending case before the California Supreme Court. A Christian photography company refused to photograph a gay wedding was found guilty of discrimination and must pay the gay couple more than $6,600.

These cases don't reflect the claim that gays just want to be left alone and live in peace. If so, why wouldn't these gays prefer to give their money to organizations and businesses that support their LGBT views? (and there are plenty of them to choose from) This is not choosing to live a quiet lifestyle in peace. This is using the legal system to force acceptance of a view that goes against the grain of these Jewish and Christian groups.

Now, explain to me again, why is Prop 8 so wrong? Oh yeah, it limits one's choices and forces one's views on someone else.

June 22, 2010 at 8:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Documentary Attempts To Lift The Curtain On Prop 8

CaliforniaDefender said: "I think we all know what must be done: End the tax-exempt status of all churches and religious organizations. "

I'll agree to that as long as you apply the same standard across the board. Yank the tax exempt status of GLAAD, LA Gay and Lesbian Center, etc. Also let's end the tax exempt 501c3 status of Planned Parenthood since they kill unborn humans, which I'm against, and as sezhoo says "supported by the government" -- my tax dollars.

June 22, 2010 at 6:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Documentary Attempts To Lift The Curtain On Prop 8

Jocelyn: "What also disgusts me is the money poured into these campaigns. Churches have so much power, and have a higher responsibility."

To whom and to do what?

June 22, 2010 at 2:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Documentary Attempts To Lift The Curtain On Prop 8

randolphslinky, you said "I support families and I support equality for all tax paying Americans. I do not support a man having carnal knowledge with his daughters, being racist, or taking advantage of little children."

Those involved in incest, racism and pedophiles ARE tax paying Americans! Remember, you said "ALL". Therefore according to your viewpoint, anyone, with ANY kind of belief system should be exempt from any kind of judgement from you or me. That is the FATAL FLAW of Moral Relativism.

June 22, 2010 at 11:39 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Documentary Attempts To Lift The Curtain On Prop 8

Several points I want to make:
1) comments were made that the wording of the prop was confusing, therefore it passed because people didn't know what they were voting for. That is a leap to justify the props success. To take that stand means that the majority of voters would have to be misinformed and have voted opposite to what their intention was --- and I don't buy that.

2) the guest accused Prop 8 supporters of "lying and scare tactics" to get the Prop passed. NPR documents "...the rights of gay couples have consistently trumped the rights of religious groups..."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/st...
Read the facts. I'd say the guest was lying about the real truth of what's happening.

Lastly, emotional pleas about hurting feelings and families are persuasive, but the bottom line is this: those that disagree with gay marriage are standing up for God's laws and morals, regardless of how it hurts people's feelings. THAT is the true divide of the issue. You either stand for MAN or you stand for GOD.

June 22, 2010 at 11:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal )