Video Transcript:

GLORIA PENNER (host): When Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger decided to cut millions from the state's In-Home Supportive Services program it was more than just a budget-related decision.  At the time, the governor alleged that there was massive fraud in the program.  His contention was that there's probably more fraud in the I-H-S-S program than any other in the state.  KPBS reporter Amita Sharma joins us now to discuss her investigation into the validity of those fraud accusations. How much of the ... first of all let's get a background. He said there's fraud; we're cutting the program. How much of the funding is supposed to be cut? 

AMITA SHARMA(Investigative Reporter, KPBS): He's cutting $263 million from a $4 billion program that is only growing at this point. 

PENNER: Okay, so when we talk about that, explain first what In-Home Support Services does so that we know what we're dealing with here. 

SHARMA: In-Home-Supportive Services is a government program that provides personal care for the elderly, the disabled, the blind. And this care can include, cooking, cleaning them, helping them bathe, shopping for them, giving them medication. And the idea is to keep these people in their home, to take care of them in their home so they don't have to be institutionalized.

PENNER: But some of these caregivers are family members, right? I mean, they are people who might be taking care of them anyway, so why should they get paid for it? 

SHARMA: Well, the point is that, some of these people require 24-hour care. One of the women I interviewed, she takes care of both her grandmother, I mean, her mother and her sister. Her sister is 40-years-old and has the mental capacity of a 4-year-old. Her mother is 77, she has heart disease and she has diabetes and she needs a walker to move around. So, she, you know, her day isn't a nine to five day, it's a 24-hour day. She can't hold a job outside the house in addition to taking care of them. 

PENNER: How much was she getting? 

SHARMA: She was getting...She is getting right now $1500 a month. After deductions, that's about $900 a month. She is struggling to make ends meet right now.. 

PENNER: All three of them would be living on the $900 a month? 

SHARMA: Right and I believe her mother receives a small amount from the state for social security. But, it's a very small amount and she is struggling to make ends meet. She is on the list to be wiped out in terms of losing all the support she gets from In-Home Supportive Services. 

PENNER: Okay. So, you did this investigation, and the governors claiming fraud. Fraud, what? The wrong people are coming to the house? They're not coming to the house? What kind of fraud? 

SHARMA: Well, he didn't exactly say, but I spoke with to the Deputy District Attorney Michael Grosh he heads the economic crimes unit in San Diego. And he said, that the potential for fraud in this system is great. And that is because most of the people who offer the care, who give the care are friends and family of the recipients and so the potential for collusion, the potential for abuse is great. So now that there are these new fraud controls within the system that took effect yesterday, and these controls include requiring both the caregiver and the recipient to place their fingerprints on timesheets that he expects the fraud numbers to go up. So, he said, the difference between what they believe is the fraud rate, the fraud rate that is in the system and what the actual prosecutions are is a wide gap at this point because they don't have those controls.

PENNER: Alright, so, right at this point then, are you saying that there isn't as much fraud as the governor claims? 

SHARMA: Well, we did a numbers check. There are currently 460,00 people state-wide within In-Home Supportive Services. From November, or actually July 2005 to November 2008 there were 5,000 fraud complaints and 1500 of those complaints were substantiated. That's a less than five percent fraud rate state-wide.

PENNER: How does that compare to other programs? 

SHARMA: You know, there is a certain amount of fraud in every government program, but I want to get back to San Diego. Within San Diego there were 25,000 people in this program. There were 42 complaints of fraud against IHHS last year and 14 prosecutions. We checked with Ventura County, Los Angeles County, San Bernadino County and San Luis Obispo County and the fraud rate there was less than one percent. 

PENNER: Just briefly, when are the cuts supposed to go into effect? 

SHARMA: The cuts are supposed to go into effect in November. There was a federal lawsuit filed yesterday to seek the a halt to the cuts until a decision has been decided as to whether these cuts actually violate the American With Disabilities Act. 

PENNER: Thank-you very much Amita Sharma. 

SHARMA: Thank-you, Gloria.