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Eliminating Traffic Deaths: San Diego Vision Zero Goal For 2025

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June 23, 2015 1:17 p.m.

Eliminating Traffic Deaths: San Diego Vision Zero Goal For 2025

GUESTS:

Jim Stone, executive director, Circulate San Diego

Randy Van Vleck, active transportation manager, City Heights Community Development Corporation

Related Story: Eliminating Traffic Deaths: San Diego Vision Zero Goal For 2025

Transcript:

This is a rush transcript created by a contractor for KPBS to improve accessibility for the deaf and hard-of-hearing. Please refer to the media file as the formal record of this interview. Opinions expressed by guests during interviews reflect the guest’s individual views and do not necessarily represent those of KPBS staff, members or its sponsors.

SOME MONEY, SOME PLANNING AND DIVISION. THAT'S WHAT SUPPORTERS OF VISION ZERO SAY IT WILL TAKE TO ELIMINATE TRAFFIC DEATHS IN SAN DIEGO. AND THE NEW NOVEL, "THE CARTEL", COMPLETES A SWEEPING VISION OF THE TRAGIC DRUG WARS IN MEXICO. THIS IS KPBS "MIDDAY EDITION". I'M MAUREEN CAVANAUGH, IT'S TUESDAY, JUNE 23. HERE ARE SOME OF THE SAN DIEGO STORIES WE ARE FOLLOWING IN THE KPBS NEWSROOM. SAN DIEGO'S CHIEF STADIUM NEGOTIATOR IS IN NEW YORK CITY TODAY TO MEET WITH TOP NFL OFFICIALS ABOUT EFFORTS TO BUILD A NEW CHARGER STADIUM IN SAN DIEGO. ON MONDAY, SAN DIEGO MAYOR KEVIN FALTER AND NFL COMMISSIONER ROGER GOODELL AGREE TALKS WOULD CONTINUE AHEAD OF THE NFL OWNERS MEETING IN AUGUST. THE COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WILL MEET THIS AFTERNOON TO CONSIDER A PROPOSED $5 BILLION BUDGET FOR THE UPCOMING FISCAL YEAR. THE PLAN CALLS FOR INCREASED FUNDING FOR PUBLIC SAFETY. THE HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES AGENCY AND PUBLIC WORKS. LISTEN FOR THE LATEST NEWS THROUGH THE DAY RIGHT HERE ON KPBS. OUR TOP STORY ON "MIDDAY EDITION", YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE THE VICTIM OF A CAR ACCIDENT IN SAN DIEGO IF YOU ARE NOT DRIVING A CAR. AT MONDAY'S LAUNCH OF THE VISION ZERO PROJECT, SUPPORTERS SAY PEDESTRIANS ARE TWICE AS LIKELY TO BE INJURED IN A CAR ACCIDENT AND DRIVERS, AND BICYCLISTS ARE 10 TIMES MORE LIKELY. AND SO, SAN DIEGO'S MAYOR AND CITY LEADERS ARE ENDORSING THE VISION ZERO PROJECT. IT'S MOVEMENT AMONG SEVERAL AMERICAN CITIES TO DECREASE THE NUMBER OF TRAFFIC DEATHS TO ZERO. AND ELIMINATING TRAFFIC DEATHS IS BECOMING EVEN MORE IMPORTANT AS CLIMATE ACTION GOALS SHIFT THE EMPHASIS OF SAN DIEGO'S TRANSPORTATION FROM THE AUTOMOBILE TO PEDESTRIAN AND BIKE FRIENDLY ALTERNATIVES. JOINING ME ARE JIM STONE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF CIRCULATE SAN DIEGO, WHICH ISSUED THE VISION ZERO PLAN FOR SAN DIEGO, JIM, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
GREAT TO BE HERE.
AND RANDY VAN VLECK IS AN ACTIVE TRANSPORTATION MANAGER WITH CITY HEIGHTS COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION. THANKS FOR COMING IN.
THANK YOU.
JIM, WHEN VISION ZERO WAS UNVEILED YESTERDAY IT CAME WITH DISTURBING STATISTICS OF HOW MANY PEOPLE IN SAN DIEGO ARE KILLED IN THESE TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS. FOR ONE, THERE ARE ALMOST AS MANY VEHICLE DEATHS AS THERE ARE HOMICIDES IN SAN DIEGO. IS THAT RIGHT?
ACTUALLY, SHOCKINGLY, THERE ARE TWICE AS MANY TRAFFIC FATALITIES AS THERE ARE MURDERS IN THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO. AND BY THE WAY, WE TEND NOT TO CALL THEM ACCIDENTS, WE CALL THEM CRASHES BECAUSE QUITE OFTEN THESE DEATHS ARE PREVENTABLE. AND WHEN PEOPLE CHARACTERIZE THEM AS ACCIDENTS WHICH WE TYPICALLY DO, IT KIND OF LET'S EVERYBODY OFF THE HOOK. AND WE NEED TO FACE THIS PROBLEM HEAD-ON AND SO PART OF GETTING US DOWN TO A ZERO TOLERANCE FOR TRAFFIC DEATHS IS TO RECOGNIZE THAT THEY ARE PREVENTABLE.
WHAT ARE SOME OTHER STATISTICS ABOUT HOW THESE FATALITIES HAVE INCREASED AND WHEN WHAT NEIGHBORHOODS THEY ARE MOST LIKELY TO OCCUR?
WELL, ONE OF THE MOST SHOCKING STATISTICS IS IF YOU LIVE IN A LOW INCOME NEIGHBORHOOD, AND RANDY CAN SPEAK TO THIS BECAUSE OF WHERE HE WORKS, YOU ARE 10 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE HIT BY A CAR THAN IF YOU LIVE IN ANOTHER NEIGHBORHOOD. SO SIMPLY YOUR ECONOMIC SETTING WILL BE A MAJOR DETERMINANT AS TO HOW SAFE YOU ARE ON OUR STREETS.
RANDY, WHAT MAKES PEOPLE IN LOW INCOME NEIGHBORHOODS MORE LIKELY TO BECOME VICTIMS OF A TRAFFIC CRASH?
YEAH, I THINK IT'S TIED TO THE HISTORICAL INVESTMENT IN TERMS OF PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURES AS A RELATES TO WALKING AND BIKING, GENERALLY LOW INCOME NEIGHBORHOODS RECEIVE THE LOWEST AMOUNT OF INVESTMENT AND AS A RESULT OF THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF STREETS THAT ARE OUTDATED IN TERMS OF THEIR DESIGN FEATURES. WE HAVE A LACK OF SIGNALS AND SIGNALIZED SAFE CROSSINGS, SO THOSE ARE SOME OF THE FEATURES THAT LEAD TO HIGHER CRASH RATES AND LOW INCOME COMMUNITIES.
NOW, OUR SPEED LIMITS SET TOO HIGH ON SOME OF THESE ROADS?
I DEFINITELY THINK SO. SPEED IS A MAJOR CONTRIBUTOR TO DEATHS AND SERIOUS INJURIES IN THE EVENT OF A CRASH BUT REALLY THE WAY THE SPEED LIMITS ARE SET IS REALLY COMPLEX. IT'S KIND OF AN OUTDATED RULE CALLED THE 85th PERCENTILE THAT ALLOWS 85th FASTEST MURDERERS DOWN A QUARTER -- MOTORISTS DOWN IT WOULD AMOUNT TO SET THE SPEED LIMIT. CITIES ARE GRAPPLING WITH HOW TO CALM DOWN STREETS BEFORE RAISING THE SPEED LIMIT ACCORDING TO LAW. THERE'S A NUMBER OF WAYS TO DO THAT. THEY REALLY NEED TO BE PREVENTATIVE, TAKE A PREVENTATIVE APPROACH IN TERMS OF INTRODUCING DIFFERENT TRAFFIC FEATURES BEFORE THEY NEED TO RE-CLOCK THE 85th PERCENTILE. WE CAN'T JUST ARBITRARILY LOWER THE SPEED LIMIT, WE HAVE TO INTRODUCE DIFFERENT TRAFFIC FEATURES TO LOWER THE SPEED LIMIT.
JIM, IN A NUTSHELL, WHAT IS VISION ZERO?
VISION ZERO IS A SIMPLE, ELEGANT, YET POWERFUL IDEA TO HAVE ZERO TOLERANCE FOR PEDESTRIAN DEATHS. HERE IN SAN DIEGO WE PLAN ON DOING THAT WITH A THREE-PRONGED APPROACH. NUMBER ONE, WE HAVE TO ADDRESS INFRASTRUCTURE. AS RANDY MENTIONED WE HAVE THE STREETS THAT WERE DESIGNED, HERE WE ARE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, CAR IS KING, SO OUR STREETS ARE DESIGNED FAST AND WIDE AND SO WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT REDESIGNING THE STREETS. OUR STREETS WHAT -- NEED WHAT I CALL THE SAFETY MAKEOVER. ENGINEERING IS NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO, WE NEED TO GET EDUCATION. WE NEED TO MAKE EVERYBODY AWARE WHETHER YOU ARE A WALKER, RECKLESS -- BICYCLIST OR DRIVER, YOU HAVE RESPONSE ABILITY FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY AND WELL-BEING AS WELL AS PEOPLE AROUND YOU. PEOPLE NEED TO LOOK OUT FOR ONE ANOTHER. FOR EXAMPLE IF I'M CROSSING THE STREET I WILL TRY TO CATCH THE DRIVERS I IN INTERSECTION I'M GOING THROUGH. IF I CAN SEE THAT PERSON'S EYE I KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE GOING TO STOP AND I'M NOT JUST GOING TO WALK OUT. WE NEED TO BE LOOKING AT THAT. FINALLY, SOME PEOPLE DON'T RESPOND WELL TO EDUCATION SO THERE'S ALSO THE REINFORCEMENT PART. WE WILL BE WORKING WITH THE SAN DIEGO POLICE DEPARTMENT IN A VERY TARGETED WAY. WE'VE IDENTIFIED THE 8 MOST DANGEROUS ST. CORRIDORS IN SAN DIEGO, AND THESE ARE THE PLACES WHERE ALMOST A THIRD OF ALL THE CRASHES TAKE PLACE. JUST THESE AT STREET CORRIDORS. SO THAT'S WHERE WE WANT TO FOCUS OUR INFRASTRUCTURE DOLLARS AND WHERE WE WANT TO FOCUS OUR ENFORCEMENT ACTIVITIES.
DO WE KNOW WHAT IS USUALLY TO BLAME FOR TRAFFIC DEATHS? IS IT INATTENTION? IS IT RECKLESS DRIVING?
YOU KNOW, IT'S CASE-BY-CASE BUT THERE ARE A FEW COMMONALITIES AND RANDY MENTIONED NUMBER ONE AND THAT IS SPEED. SPEED KILLS. IF YOU ARE HIT BY A CAR GOING 40 MILES AN HOUR, YOU HAVE AT BEST A 20% CHANCE OF SURVIVING THAT CRASH. SO THE TRAFFIC CALMING THAT RANDY REFERRED TO IS VERY IMPORTANT. AND WHEN WE THINK ABOUT SPEED LIMITS AND SPEED SIGNS, I'M JUST, YOU KNOW, OKAY FINE, THERE'S A SPEED LIMIT SIGN THERE. BUT REALLY, DRIVERS TAKE THEIR CUE FROM THE WAY THE WORLD IS DESIGNED. IF IT HAS WIDE TRAVEL LANES, DRIVERS WILL GO FASTER. TRAFFIC CALMING INVOLVES THINGS LIKE NARROWING DOWN THE TRAVELING. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHAT THE SPEED LIMIT SIGN IS, YOU MAKE THE ROAD IN SUCH A WAY THAT PEOPLE DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE DRIVING FASTER AND A SLOW DOWN.
WHERE DID THIS IDEA START, THIS VISION ZERO?
IT ACTUALLY STARTED IN SWEDEN AND IS PRETTY WIDESPREAD IN SWEDEN AND THEY'VE HAD GREAT SUCCESS WITH IT. THE FIRST CITY IN THE UNITED STATES TO ADOPT VISION ZERO WAS NEW YORK CITY. THEY ADOPTED IT A LITTLE OVER A YEAR AGO AND IN THEIR FIRST YEAR THEY WERE ABLE TO DECREASE TRAFFIC DEATHS BY 26% FOR PEDESTRIANS. TRAFFIC DEATHS FOR PEDESTRIANS ARE NOW AT A LEVEL THEY HAVEN'T SEEN SINCE 1910, A PHENOMENAL SUCCESS. LOS ANGELES JUST ADOPTED IT, SAN FRANCISCO ADOPTED IT THE LAST YEAR, SAN JOSE JUST ADOPTED IT. SAN DIEGO IS THE FIFTH CITY TO ADOPT VISION ZERO.
RANDY -- EXCUSE ME. JIM JUST TOLD US ABOUT THE EIGHT AREAS WHERE 30% OF THE TRAFFIC FATALITIES HAPPEN IN SAN DIEGO. IS THERE A COMMONALITY? IS THERE SOMETHING IN EACH OF THESE AREAS THAT IS GOING WRONG?
ABSOLUTELY. UNIVERSITY AVENUE AND OAKLAND BOULEVARD ARE TWO OF THE MOST COMMON, AND THE HIGH-SPEED TRAVEL, THERE IS A LACK OF SAFE BIKE INFRASTRUCTURE, THERE'S NO BIKE LANES ON THOSE SAFE CORRIDORS. THERE'S A NUMBER OF INTERSECTIONS THAT JUST DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH PEDESTRIAN CROSSING FEATURES, AND THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS MISSING THAT WE COULD IMPROVE ON, PEDESTRIAN SCALE LIGHTING, IMPROVED LIGHTING IN GENERAL, MORE SAFE CROSSING OPPORTUNITIES. THOSE ARE SOME OF THE FEATURES THAT I THINK ARE COMMON IN THOSE TWO CORRIDORS THAT ARE CREATING AS A RESULT OF THE LACK OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENTS, CREATING UNSAFE CONDITIONS. THAT IS WHY WE'VE HAD 17 PEOPLE DIE IN THE LAST NINE YEARS ON UNIVERSITY BOULEVARD. SO, WALKING TO THE STORE, WALKING TO SCHOOL, WALKING TO THE TRANSIT STOP, WALKING TO WORK SHOULD NOT BE A DEATH-DEFYING FEAT YET IT IS IN THE CITY HEIGHTS AND WE DON'T FEEL THAT IS RIGHT AND ARE HAPPY THAT THE MAYOR HAS SIGNED ON TO VISION ZERO.
IT'S NOT ONE OF THE CORRIDORS WERE MOST OF THESE TRAFFIC FATALITIES HAPPEN BUT I NOTICED ON MISSION CENTER ROAD LATELY RIGHT NEAR THE SAN DIEGO RIVER THERE HAS BEEN A LIGHT PUT INTO ONE CARS TO STOP WHEN A PEDESTRIAN WANTS TO CROSS. THAT VERY HEAVILY TRAVELED STREET. AND IT'S A VERY LONG STREET, TOO. SO IF YOU WANTED TO CROSS AT THE LIGHT YOU HAVE TO GO ALL THE WAY -- YOU'D HAVE TO WALK QUITE A BIT. IS THAT THE KIND OF THING YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?
DEFINITELY. I THINK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ALONG THE SAN DIEGO RIVER VALLEY ON MISSION?
YES.
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THE CITY GOT THROUGH A GRANT, THAT'S THE TYPE OF MONEY WE NEED TO GROW THE POT FOR, SEE MARK ROGER X LIKE THAT, LAFFER SAFE CROSSINGS, MORE SIGNALS THAT ALLOW PEDESTRIANS TO CROSS SAFELY. THIS IS THE KIND OF THING WE ARE HOPING TO SEE MORE FREQUENTLY ESPECIALLY IN LOW INCOME COMMUNITIES AS A RESULT OF VISION ZERO.
IF I COULD JUMP ONTO SOMETHING RANDY SAID. THERE'S ANOTHER COMMON FACTOR AND THAT IS THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WALKING. YOU LOOK IN ALL THESE PLACES WITH HIGHER POPULATION DENSITIES AND A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WALKING. NOW, THE PREVAILING WISDOM IS, AND I'VE HEARD THIS FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE, WHEN YOU SAY, WELL, PEDESTRIAN CRASHES ARE UP, WELL THERE'S MORE PEOPLE WALKING THERE. THAT WOULD BE LIKE SAYING, IF THERE WERE, SAY, OVER THE NEXT YEAR, THREE AIRPLANE CRASHES OUT OF PLANES THAT FLEW OUT OF SAN DIEGO, IF SOMEBODY SAID WELL YEAH, YOU HAVE TO EXPECT THAT BECAUSE THERE'S MORE PLANES FLYING OUT OF LINDBERGH FIELD, YOU'D BE LOOKED AT AS IF YOU ARE NUTS IF YOU SAID SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO WE HAVE TO TAKE THAT KIND OF UNDERSTANDING OF SAYING WE ARE JUST GOING TO ACCEPT MORE DEATHS AND THAT IS THE REAL FUNDAMENTAL ASKED DEB VISION ZERO. THESE DEATHS ARE NOT ONLY PREVENTABLE BUT THEY ARE PREVENTABLE.
SUPPORTERS CAME OUT FOR VISION ZERO WHEN IT WAS UNVEILED MONDAY, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? HOW WOULD THE CITY SUPPORT THIS IDEA?
GREAT QUESTION, THANK YOU FOR ASKING IT. AT THIS EVENT WHERE WE DECLARED OUR SUPPORT FOR VISION ZERO WAS THE FIRST STEP. WHAT WE NEED TO DO GOING FORWARD IS NUMBER ONE WE'VE ACTUALLY PREPARED LANGUAGE FOR A RESOLUTION. WE NEED THE CITY COUNCIL TO ADOPT THAT RESOLUTION. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT A RESOLUTION DOES IT THAT UP AN ADVISORY COMMITTEE, A VISION ZERO ADVISORY COMMITTEE THAT WOULD HAVE MEMBERS OF THE MAYOR'S STAFF, IT WOULD HAVE PEOPLE FROM THE TRANSPORTATION DIVISION IN THE CITY, IT WOULD HAVE THE SAN DIEGO POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT, CALTRANS, AND SOME CITIZEN REPRESENTATIVES. AND, WE HAVE ACTUALLY OUTLINED WHAT WE FEEL ARE THE SOLUTIONS BUT IT NEEDS EVERYBODY TO COME TOGETHER AND LOOK AT PRIORITIZATION. WE NEED TO RE-EXAMINE ALL THESE CORRIDORS AND SET A PLAN OF ACTION. AND THE FIRST THING WE NEED TO DO IS START INVESTING IN THE INFRASTRUCTURE CHANGES. AND WE ACTUALLY IDENTIFIED TO ADDRESS THE SAFETY ISSUES IN THESE AT CORRIDORS, ACTUALLY SEVEN OF THEM, ONE WE LEFT OUT FOR SOME TECHNICAL REASONS, BUT SEVEN OF THAT AT CORRIDORS, IT WOULD COST ABOUT $15 MILLION TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS AND A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY, WOW, THAT'S AN AWFUL LOT OF MONEY. BUT IN 2013 THERE WERE 81 PEOPLE WHO DIED IN TRAFFIC THAT IT FATALITIES AND THE GOVERNMENT ASSIGNED THE COST OF $9.2 MILLION TO A FATALITY WHICH COMES OUT TO $745 MILLION NOT EVEN COUNTING THE 300 SERIOUS INJURIES. WE'RE LOOKING AT A BILLION-DOLLAR YEAR COST FOR TRAFFIC RELATED CONDITIONS HERE. SO, IT JUST MAKES SENSE TO MAKE THIS INVESTMENT. FORGET ABOUT THE HUMAN SUFFERING, AND WE WANT TO LOOK AT THE ECONOMICS. IT'S CRAZY NOT TO INVEST IN THIS.
NOW RANDY, MAYOR FAULKNER AND THE CITY COUNCIL HAVE STATED THEIR COMMITMENT TO IMPROVING THE CITY'S INFRASTRUCTURE. DO YOU SEE THESE TRAFFIC SAFETY IMPROVEMENTS AS A PART OF THIS?
WHICH COMMITMENT ARE YOU REFERRING TO?
THE IDEA OF IMPROVING STREETS ACROSS SAN DIEGO AND THAT KIND OF THING. DO YOU SEE THIS AS AN INTEGRAL PART OF STREET IMPROVEMENT AROUND SAN DIEGO?
ABSOLUTELY. VISION ZERO HELPS PROVIDE A STRATEGY FOR THE ENTIRE CITY TO ELIMINATE ALL TRAFFIC DEATHS. AND IT LOOKS AT THE TOP AT MOST DANGEROUS CORRIDORS AND I THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT WAY TO APPROACH THIS. WE WANT TO LOOK AT THE CORRIDORS THAT PEOPLE ARE USING, THE CORRIDORS OF PEOPLE ARE ACCESSING TRANSIT, GOING TO SCHOOL, THAT ARE TRYING TO GET TO STORES AND SHOPPING AND SUPPORT THE LOCAL ECONOMY AND THOSE CORRIDORS ARE THE ONES THAT JIM MENTIONED, UNIVERSITY AVENUE, EL CAJON UNIVERSITY AVE., BOULEVARD, EUCLID TO NAME A FEW. ALSO A NUMBER OF THOSE CORRIDORS ARE IN LOW INCOME COMMUNITIES WITH LACK OF INVESTMENT. THIS IS A GOOD STRATEGY TO FOCUS IN ON THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT HAVEN'T RECEIVED THEIR FAIR SHARE OF BIKE AND PEDESTRIAN INFRASTRUCTURE.
YOU TALKED ABOUT A ROAD DIET, ROADS GO ON A DIET. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
WILL A LOT OF OUR STREETS WERE ORIGINALLY DESIGNED SIMPLY FOR THE FLOW OF TRAFFIC. SO THEY WOULD PUT MAYBE THREE LANES IN EACH DIRECTION. SO, IF YOU ELIMINATE ONE OF THOSE LANES YOU THEN CREATE SOME SPACE FOR PEDESTRIANS AND BICYCLES, WHICH HAS TWO EFFECTS. NUMBER ONE IT MAKES IT SAFER FOR THE PEDESTRIANS AND BICYCLES BUT ALSO PROVIDES MORE OPPORTUNITY FOR WALKING AND BIKING WHICH TAKES CARS OFF THE ROAD EASING CONGESTION. THE OTHER THING IT DOES IS IT CREATES A TRAFFIC CALMING EFFECTS. SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT A STREET WHERE PEOPLE DRIVING 45, 50 MILES AN HOUR, EACH CAR KEEPS SPACE BETWEEN ITSELF AND THE NEXT CAR. IF YOU SLOW THE SPEED DONE YOU CAN PUT MORE CARS PER LINEAR FOOT WHICH INCREASES THE CAPACITY OF THE ROADWAY.
THE GOAL OF ZERO TRAFFIC ACCIDENT DEATHS, IS THAT AN ATTAINABLE GOAL?
WELL LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY. I'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE ABOUT THIS AND THEY WILL SAY, BOY, THAT SOUNDS GOOD BUT COME ON, REALLY, JIM? ZERO? SO I SAY WHAT PERCENTAGE WOULD YOU BE OKAY WITH? THEY SAY LET'S REDUCE IT TO, SAY, 50%. I SAY OKAY, 50%. NOW HOW ABOUT FOR YOUR FAMILY? WHAT GOAL WOULD YOU LIKE TO SET FOR YOUR FAMILY? 50% DEATH RATE FOR YOUR FAMILY? AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, THEY GO, IT'S GOT TO BE ZERO. BECAUSE EVERYBODY WHO IS GUILTY SOMEBODY'S SON OR DAUGHTER, MAYBE A BROTHER OR SISTER. SO, THE ONLY REAL ANSWER HERE IS ZERO AND NOT SOME PERCENTAGE ABOVE THAT.
I WANT TO THANK YOU BOTH. I'VE BEEN SPEAKING WITH JIM STONE WITH CIRCULATE SAN DIEGO AND RANDY VAN VLECK WITH CITY HEIGHTS COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION. THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH.
THANK YOU.
THANK YOU SO MUCH, MAUREEN.