Roundtable: Shooting Aftermath; Race For DA; County Jail & Mental Health

MS: Struck a mass shooting in University City raises questions about motivation and raise. Also raising questions, this decision to step down early and have a successor. Do you have any idea which is the largest provider of mental health care? It is the county jail. I am Mark Saur. The KPBS Roundtable starts now. MS: Welcome to our discussion of the top stories. I am Mark Saur. Joining me at the roundtable today, Susan Murphy. SM: Hello. MS: It is good to have you. MS: Amita Sharma. AS: Hello. MS: Sara Libby. It is good to have you back. MS: Dana Littlefield of the San Diego Union Tribune. Hello. MS: It is good to have you here. MS: Last week and, the shooting was shocking as all shootings are. This had a few elements that elevated it to national news in our gun happy country. The killer called his ex-girlfriend as he emptied his gun. Had it happened in an eight upscale single command? There was the question of race and hate. He was white and most of his victims were people of color. SM: On Sunday night, a white man walked into this pool complex area. He walked towards the back gate where the pool is. He sat calmly. MS: The middle of a birthday party. SM: It was right across from him, people were celebrating. He sat for 30 minutes and then began shooting. He shot at the people who were celebrating a birthday party. Those people were African-Americans and mostly Latinos. There were 30 people who were attending -- who were in the pool area. Some kids were in the pool. He shot seven people; five were African-American and a white woman. One woman died. Monique Clark. She was a mother of three. MS: The police came and killed Peter Salas. SM: He was a 49-year-old. He seemed to be distraught over a recent breakup with his girlfriend in the last 10 years he had filed bankruptcy. He had been divorced. His life seemed to be spiraling out of control. MS: With those details, that seem to be what the place said may have been the motivation here. The police chief, just a day after shooting said there was no indication that this was a hate crime. You have covered Shelley Zimmerman. Was this wishful thinking on her part? What do you think? DL: I do not know specifically the details of the investigation. I do know that when police look into these types of events and they are looking for evidence of a hate crime, there needs to be evidence, you know, statements that were made or perhaps writings in his own apartment or something like that. MS: Or social media? DL: Back in the totality of the circumstances, it would indicate some kind of bias was a factor here. Zimmerman said through this pleased permit that did not seem to be the case. Obviously, there were those who were there who say otherwise. MS: Some of these people were rankled by the conclusion. SM: I spoke to witnesses who said it seemed like he was targeting African-American people at the party. There was a white woman who was shot. They say that he kind of warned her do not come near or try to help them or you will be shot as well. MS: It seem like there was activities based on the witness statements that he was really targeting the people in that particular incident. SM: Right. Supposedly, there were two other white women nearby and he did not shoot at them. MS: We have a couple of bites I want to get to. There is a clip from a report. You spoke her. She was a resident. SM: She was a resident and she was in the pool at the time of the shooting. MS: Okay. Listen. Witness: He did -- he did shoot at a white email because she was trying to help the wounded. I do not know if this is racial or not. It is coincidental. MS: That is some of the ambiguity. We have another bite. This is the Reverend of the national action. Reverend: It is curious to me and to many others in a community of which this transpired, that the gentleman had to be selected. There is premeditation that went along with the acts in sitting down and calculating who is there. MS: Basically, for housekeeping, what is the national action? SM: Packet is a civil rights organization. Al Sharpton leads it. It is a local civil rights; they are about gun rights and tighter control. MS: Have the police responded? Can we walk back to this earlier conclusion? SM: Back when I talked to the police, they said when Shelley Zimmerman made the announcement, there was zero evidence that they had seen and that they had shut the books but at that time, there was no evidence. The investigation is ongoing and it will take weeks before they can find a bit of. MS: Okay. How does the shooting -- there are so many shootings in America. I picked up statistics the other day. Australia had 1.4 gun homicides. The United States had 29.7. We have shootings all the time here in our society. We have mass shootings were dozens of people are murdered every day and hundreds are shot. What elevates a shooting like this to national news or news locally? DL: I think part of the reason has to do with the racial element. It is certainly part of the national conversation. I mean, it has been for decades. I am not suggesting that is a new thing but that is a part of the discussion and continue to be a part of the discussion. You have a situation where a white man did, for whatever reason, choose victims that were for the most part black or Latino. That has a lot of people looking at the motivation. Was that his sole motivation? Why did he do this? These people were celebrating at a birthday party. Anytime you have a situation where you have the abrupt shift -- shift in the mood. People are happy and celebrating and here is a person that destroys that. That resonates with people. And then you add the racial element makes that disturbing if that is the case. SM: They are celebrating. They invited everybody to join with them. MS: They were very open. SM: He was asked to join in as well, yes. AS: I am curious. Bring it back to cheap Zimmerman. Is there a sense that perhaps they reached that conclusion? Maybe they say this is ongoing but maybe they put that out there that this was not racially motivated too soon? SM: That is what people are saying. It was too soon and that maybe she left out the words as of right now. We do not have evidence. So far in this investigation, that has not been 24 hours it AS: What about the family of victims? Have they said what they believe they think the motivation might be? SM: Back I know the national action network was trying to get them back to them. They were not representing the family. I have not heard personally that they have spoken about this yet. That is to come. MS: We will look for follow-up on that and what the police investigation does show. Longtime district attorney is resigning on July 7 back. She is trying to handpick her successor by throwing holy water on a favored deputy two enjoyed the benefits of an incumbency ahead of the election. There is a lot to unpack. What is the reason she is stepping down? AS: She says she is considering a run for the county Board of Supervisors and that would be Ron Robert C. MS: She has been on the job 14 years? AS: Back yes. We are nearing the end of her fourth term. MS: Are there any other possible reasons why she might suddenly step down in the middle of her term? AS: There is a sense – MS: --I know it is speculation. AS: We are going to start speculation. There is a sense that she is stepping aside to allow the person whom she has endorsed were district attorney, this is the cheap deputy district attorney, to get the interim job. There is a strong belief that the county Board of Supervisors whose job it is to appoint a replacement has agreed behind closed doors that Stefan will get the interim job. If she gets the job, there is a lot of criticism from different corners, the Democratic Party, and people within the Republicans, this is patently unfair and it is vintage San Diego politics we have to stop anointing successors. They believe that she has moved into that job and then she has the boost that comes with the incumbency, name recognition. The ability to point to the fact that she has been in this seat for two months or 12 months. MS: You can call a press conference. AS: She gets free publicity. Two things have happened. Two candidates have emerged for the interim job. One is Adam Gordon. He is a former prosecutor and he is a civil litigator. He has said he is interested in this post and he has promised not to run for the DA next year. He said it is time that San Diego people get to choose a candidate for the first time in 48 years. There has not been in a comment running. He wants to create a situation where there is an ability to choose. MS: Open it up. AS: He says, I will not run. Greg Walden is a former prosecutor. He has announced he would like the job and he is also pledged not to run. MA: As long as we are on Stefan here, will get back to the history of the office but you did a long interview with summer Stefan who is being tapped. How is she different from some of the more controversial or notable things that Dumanis has done? SL: Back when I spoke with her, she went to the line of suggesting she would do things differently without saying I would not have done this or under me, we would not pursue these policies. Some of those include -- we talked about police body cameras. A lot of the policies – MS: --that is a very controversial issue SL: The disclosure policies have been set by Bonnie Dumanis without input from the mayor. You know, when I spoke with her, it what surprised me is she did signal a willingness to reopen the policies and a willingness to change some things. Right now, body camera footage is released and local law enforcement officials have said, if we are in a situation where we are approaching a riot, we will release it. In my opinion, that is perversely encourage people to demonstrate violently to get the footage that is supposed to be public to begin with. She did say, I am willing to revisit that. She also surprisingly talked about a willingness to work within property 77, which is a recent state measure that converts some crimes to misdemeanors. There are a lot of prosecutors who have panned this as something that is ruining California and making life harder. She did suggest a willingness to work within the law and abide by it and respect it. She thought that prosecutors could do more to work within prop 47. MS: Did she have anything to say about this controversy? Back yes. She talked about that. She had choice words for some of those critics and said that they are welcome to run against me if they do not like it. I think that willfully ignores the question, no one seems to critique her as a candidate so much as they are critiquing the process. This is a supervisor’s decision to put the thumb on the scale. AS: She has been praised a lot for her work on sex trafficking cases. She has gone after pimps hard. She has made a name for herself in that arena. Again, it is a critique of the process. There seems to be a level of jadedness on this on the issue. Sheriff Colander was a pointed to the place before he retired. And then, again, he ran pick MS: A got a big leg up. It happened with the chief administrative officer. Somebody's people say, they would not be surprised if Ron Roberts leaves his seat on the Board of Supervisors early to take another job and then Bonnie Dumanis, this is the seat. [Indiscernible - multiple speakers] AS: There is that level of cynicism in this town. MS: Regarding summer Stefan, there is some irony. Because Bonnie Hattie title action against Paul, the previous district attorney. She wanted any close election over the murder case, which was a highly controversial case. The victim was falsely accused. The family had ads on behalf of body and people thought that putter of the top. The prosecutor was summer Stefan. Now, she will turn around annoyed that. I have heard from the Crow family who does not live in the state, they have gotten wind of this and they are very upset by this. There are a lot of people that have interesting angles to the process. Let's shift back to Bonnie Dumanis and her legacy. Should this is a highly visible job. There are good days and bad days. What are some of the achievements that she would point to as her legacy? AS: When it comes to Bonnie Dumanis, she has an amazing story. She started off as a typist and she became a prosecutor and then a judge and then the DA and now she is about to wind down her fourth term. I think nobody can talk about her career and not mention the murder cases of Amber and Chelsea back in 2010 and the way she handled that. She was able to extract a guilty plea by the killer, John Gardner, in exchange for not pursuing the death penalty. He was sentenced to two life sentences. MS: To not put the family put that through that. AS: The knock against her is basically the way she has mastered the amount of influence that she has in the town and the region. Perhaps even the state. Some people would say she is the most powerful politician in the county. She is the district attorney. She has openly endorsed political candidates. She endorsed Jerry Sanders and Sheriff Gore pick SL: She endorsed them after saying that she would not pick AS: She made that pledge in 2007. Nobody gets onto the San Diego Superior Court bench without her blessing. MS: That is a blessing and a curse to be that powerful a politician but there are downsides to that. We had the scandal when she ran for mayor in 2012. Spent right. AS: But that scandal was not really unsealed -- it did not become public until early 2014, two years after. MS: All right. You will be interesting. The last question, what is the timetable when the supervisors have to make this? AS: The application is open right now. Whoever the applicant's are will go before the supervisors and do a spiel and they will be publicly interviewed. The board will narrow the field down to five applicants. They reserve the right to make the appointment then. If not, they will push it off to June 27 and do more public pick MS: July 27 is the date. It has to be done before then. AS: It should be said that there are many who believe the fix is in and they have chose summer Stefan. MS: There is a lot to watch as we move ahead. The county jail was never intended to be a mental health ward but that is what has happened. They have been a poor provider for the mentally ill. Let's start with a scope of the problem. How many are deemed to be mentally ill in jail? DL: The daily average of inmates is 5700 countywide. Sheriff has said that at any given time, one third of those people are on some type of drug. They are also receiving other mental health services within the jail. That is a very large percentage of the population. MS: That is. That is remarkable. You had a powerful story about this and you open with the tragic suicide. Tell us about that case. DL: That was a case involving Michelle and her husband. They were East County residents. This was about this time last year when the husband started exhibiting unusual behaviors and strange behaviors. His wife mentioned that he was talking nonstop which was unusual for him. This was into the early hours of the morning. Eventually, he was diagnosed as manic. He had a psychotic break. The issues with his behavior continued on until there was an incident where he threw a coffee table through a sliding glass door at his brother's home in East County. He was arrested. MS: He winds up in the county jail and he commits suicide. DL: Yes. In the five or six days that he was housed in the jail in Vista, Michelle, his wife, was calling the jail to check to see how he was. He was refusing medication. She stated to me in an interview was that she kept telling the nurses, I am afraid for his life. I am afraid for his life. He was not in any type of suicide watch cell and he did take his own life MS: This was not an isolated incident. How many have there been? DL: Going back to 2014, there have been 17. There were six in 2014 and another 6 in 2015 and 5 in 2016. So far, this year, not have been reported. That is completed suicides. We are not talking about attempts. MS: The families of the inmates have sued, saying that there have been multiple please and they raised red flags and alerts over and over again. DL: Absolutely. MS: They happen anyway. DL: Yes. We are talking about situations that happened before some of the newer changes have been made to the system of giving psychiatric care to the inmates. Some have happened after the changes. There is still room for improvement for sure. MS: I want to get to more detail on some of the changes that have been made but we do have a bite from Sheriff Gore and he acknowledges the problem. Here is a clip describing the problem. Sheriff: Where is the largest provider for mental health? It is the central jail. There is something wrong with this. That should not be the case. About one third of my -- they are on some type of drugs. When I have an average daily population of 5700 inmates that is a lot of people. MS: He is making the point that you did, the numbers, I am sure the jailers do not want to be psychologists and handout prescriptions and they are trying to keep track of the meds for these people I do not know how well trained they are. What are improvements that they are trying to do in and some of the things to keep the suicide rates down? DL: Some of the changes have been physical within the jail. There are newly formed enhanced observation units, what they call them. There is fencing that is put up on the upper tier so they cannot jump from the upper level to the lower level. In some of the cells, there is video where people can be watched more closely. Whatever points where someone might be able to fashion a noose and hang him or herself, those hanging points have been a limited. These are physical changes that have taken place inside the jail. In addition to that, there is talk about making sure that the doctors and the mental health providers check in people who are on suicide watch on more frequently. And they are doing a better of figuring out who should go into those enhanced units as well. Identify who is at high risk. MS: Susan? SM: Are these mentally ill -- are they in solitary confinement? MS: They are in the general population? DL: No, they are in specialized units with other people who have psychological issues. They could beat mental health issues. That is a big thing that is a change in recent years. There is a movement away from keeping people who have mental illness isolated because isolation can lead to what the doctors call decompensation where there are problems that are exacerbated because they are alone and not interacting with anyone. MS: It is a complex question but how did we get here? It took a lot of years coming to the point where the mentally ill wind up in jail instead of institutions. DL: This is not something that just popped up recently. This has been in the works for many decades. We are talking about the late 1950s or early 1960s where the state of California made a concerted effort to move people out of the state mental hospitals and the idea was that instead of involuntarily committing someone to a state hospital, they would go to a more community-based facility. We are talking about care facilities and that sort of thing. AS: Why? What was the upshot? DL: But it saves a lot of money first off. Secondly, it was supposed to be a way to give people more one-on-one treatment. In treatment in their own community, where they are not completely away from loved ones and family members. They have been sent away. The problem was, the money did not come to those facilities. People were turned away or they did not get the care they needed right away. That is the main issue, getting care immediately. MS: It was a terrific story and we have run out of time but we will revisit this issue I'm sure. That wraps up another week of stories at the KPBS Roundtable. I would like to think my guests Susan Murphy, Amita Sharma, and Dana Littlefield. There is a reminder, all of the stories we discussed are available on our website on www.kpbs.org. Thank you for joining us today on the roundtable.