Panda Watch At San Diego Zoo After Bai Yun Is Artificially Inseminated

THIS IS KPBS MIDDAY EDTION I MAUREEN CAVANAUGH. BIRDS DO IT, BEES DO IT, BUT SOME CRATERS OVER AT THE SAN DIEGO ZOO SEEM TO NEED HELP. THE ZOO STAFF IS WATCHING AND WAITING TO SEE IF ARTIFICIAL INSEMINATION OF BAI YUN WILL RESULT IN ANOTHER BABY PANDA. THE ZOO IS PLAYING A ROLE IN TRYING TO MAINTAIN ENDANGERED SPECIES POPULATIONS, EVEN WHEN IT SEEMS IT MAY BE TOO LATE. DNA SEQUENCING IS PART OF THE LONG-RANGE PLAN TO KEEP THE WHITE RHINO FROM BECOMING AND/OR REMAINING EXTINCT. OVERALL, THERE'S A LOT GOING ON AT THE SAN DIEGO ZOO AND SAFARI PARK THIS SPRING AM INCLUDING THE AMAZING BUTTERFLY JUNGLE. JOINING ME IS RICK SCHWARTZ, HE IS THE SAN DIEGO ZOO GLOBAL AMBASSADOR. RICK, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM THANK YOU. AND DR. BARBARA DURRANT, DIRECTOR OF REPRODUCTIVE PHYSIOLOGY AT THE SAN DIEGO ZOO INSTITUTE FOR CONSERVATION RESEARCH. THANK YOU FOR COMING. THANK YOU. RATE, IF BY UNIT IS PREGNANT, THIS WILL BE HER SEVENTH CUP ? YES. IS THAT A LOT FOR PANDA ? WE ARE EXPLORING THINGS WE DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW THE ANSWER TO. THAT IS WHY THE PANDA PROGRAM HAS BEEN SO IMPORTANT ALL OF THESE YEARS BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH WE DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THE NATURAL PROCESS OF THE PANDA. WHETHER IT IS THE BREEDING PROCESS OR EVEN HOW THEY FIND EACH OTHER IN THE WILD TO HOW MANY BABIES DO THEY HAVE IN THE LIFETIME TO WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE ONE OF PANDA BECOMES GERIATRIC AND OLD AND NEAR END-OF-LIFE. SO I DO NOT HAVE AN ANSWER BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE FINDING OUT. HAVE THEY ALL BEEN BORN AT THE SAN DIEGO ZOO ? YES HURTS. BARBARA, WHY DID THE ZOO MAKE THE DECISION TO ARTIFICIALLY INSEMINATE BAI YUN. IS IT UNLIKELY THAT SHE IS GOING TO GET PREGNANT THE OLD-FASHIONED WAY ? WE TRIED AN INTRODUCTION WITH [ INDISCERNIBLE ] WHO SHE NATURALLY BRED WITH. ALL THE SIGNS WERE GOOD, HE WAS INTERESTED, SHE WAS INTERESTED, WE MADE AN INTRODUCTION AND THEY JUST DID NOT MAKE THE IMPORTANT CONNECTION. BUT WE KNEW THAT SHE WAS READY BECAUSE WE MONITOR HER HORMONES, CELLS, HER BEHAVIORS CLOSELY. WE KNEW SHE WAS READY AND WE KNEW SHE HAD OVULATED. SO WE DECIDED TO DO ARTIFICIAL INSEMINATION. IS IT -- I KNOW BAI YUN IS NOW ABOUT 23. CORRECT. IS THAT GETTING TOO OLD FOR HER TO BE -- DO WE KNOW THAT IF THAT IS BECOMING TOO OLD FOR HER TO BE A MOTHER ? WE DO NOT KNOW THAT. WE KNOW THAT WHEN SHE GAVE EARTH THE LAST TIME TO HER BABY, SHE WAS ONE DAY YOUNGER THAN THE OLDEST PANDA ON RECORD TO GIVE BIRTH. SO IF SHE CONCEDES, IS SHE GIVES BIRTH, SHE MAY BE THE OLDEST PANDA ON RECORD. WE ARE IN UNKNOWN TERRITORY. WE ARE . WILL WE KNOW SHE'S PREGNANT ? THERE ARE THREE WAYS WE DETERMINE PREGNANCY IN GIANT PANDAS. WE KEEP MOVING BACK TOWARDS THE BEGINNING OF LEGACY AS TECHNOLOGY IMPROVES. THE FIRST THING WE WILL DO IN A LAB IS LOOK AT A PROTEIN CALLED SEVERAL PLASMA. WE CAN ISOLATE THAT FROM HER URINE. THE KEEPERS COLLECT EVERY DAY. ONE MONTH AFTER BREEDING, THREE WEEKS FROM NOW WE CAN TELL BY THE LEVELS OF THAT PROTEIN IF SHE HAS CONCEIVED. THAT DOES NOT GIVE US INFORMATION ABOUT WHETHER SHE WILL SUSTAIN A PREGNANCY. THE NEXT THING WE DO IS LOOK AT HER AROUND THE TIME OF IMPLANTATION WITH THERMAL IMAGING. WE ARE LOOKING AT HEAT SIGNATURES ON HER ABDOMEN THAT TELLS US WHAT IS GOING ON INSIDE. TOWARDS THE END OF A PREGNANCY, WE CAN ACTUALLY VISUALIZE THE FETUS WITH ULTRASOUND. THAT WOULD BE HOW LONG BETWEEN NOW AND THEN WORKS THE GIANT PANDA GESTATION IS VARIABLE. IT HAS BEEN DOCUMENTED AS 83 DAYS AND AS LONG AS 185 DAYS. INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, THOSE TWO JUST STATIONS OCCURRED IN THE SAME FEMALE, TWO DIFFERENT PREGNANCIES. THEY HAVE A PERIOD OF TIME THAT IS OF VARIABLE LENGTH. CALLED DELAYED IMPLANTATION. WHERE THE EMBRYO IS FERTILIZED AND DEVELOPED FOR ABOUT FIVE DAYS AND THEN IT JUST FLOATS AND WEIGHTS FOR SOME SIGNAL THAT WE HAVE NOT IDENTIFIED. AT THAT SIGNAL, IT IMPLANTS AND THE GESTATION OR WHAT WE CALL TRUE GESTATION, PLACENTAL GESTATION IS BETWEEN 35-50 DAYS. WE DID KNOW ABOUT THIS UNTIL PANDAS STARTED BREEDING AND SERVICES THAT ARE ? CORRECT. THAT'S WHY IT'S EXCITING. OBVIOUSLY, WE ARE WELL RENOWNED -- WORLD ONE AS THE SAN DIEGO ZOO. EVERYONE COMES TO VISIT THE ZOO. OUR CONSERVATION SIDE AND WHAT WE LEARNED FROM KEEPERS DOING JOBS WORKING WITH ANIMALS, ALLOWING US TO GET SAMPLES FROM THEM WITH HUSBANDRY TRAINING AND ALL OF THAT, SIDE IS COMING IN TO STUDY INFORMATION, EVERYTHING BARBIE SAID IS STUFF WE HAVE LEARNED AT THE SAN DIEGO ZOO BY STUDYING BEHAVIOR. GOING BACK TO SAYING IS SHE TOO OLD TO BE A MOM. THAT IS ONE THING, SHE PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE CYCLED IF SHE WAS TOO OLD. AND THE WILD SETTING, SHE WOULD BE LOOKING FOR A MATE. HER PHEROMONES WOULD HAVE BEEN GIVING THAT ALL. THE STUFF WE KNOW NOW, WE CAN APPLY TO THE SITUATION WE LEARNED AT THE ZOO AND IN A ZOO SETTING AND WE CAN SHARE INFORMATION WITH OTHER ZOOS AND CONSERVATION GROUPS IN CHINA. TAKING ONE STEP BACK, PANDAS ARE AN ENDANGERED SPECIES. ISN'T THAT RIGHT ? YES. HAVE ALL BABY PANDAS BORN HERE GONE BACK TO CHINA INTO ZOOS OR THE WILD ? YES AND NO. THEY HAVE GONE BACK TO CHINA, YES. THEY GO BACK AND DO PRIDE GRANTS TO HELP WITH GENETIC POPULATION FOR BREEDING PURPOSES THERE. WE DO HAVE ONE BORN AT THE ZOO THAT IS CURRENTLY IT AT A STATION THAT IS BASICALLY FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM DESIGNED TO READY PANDAS FOR RELEASE BACK INTO THE WILD. THE CHALLENGE A LOT OF ANIMALS FACE, PANDAS INCLUDED IS WE HAVE GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE WE MAY HAVE POPULATIONS THAT COULD GO BACK TO THE WILD NOW IT'S FINDING SUITABLE PLACES TO RELEASE THEM. THE REASON THEY ARE BECOMING ENDANGERED IS BECAUSE HUMAN ENCROACHMENT OR CHANGE AND HABITAT. SO WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE SUITABLE PLACE TO RELEASE THEM FOR SUCCESS. WE CANNOT THROW THEM OUT THERE AND EXPECTED TO HAPPEN. I HAVE READ THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT CHINA WILL ALLOW BAI YUN AND GAO GAO TO RETURN -- RETIRE HERE ? IT IS UP TO THEM. IT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS COME UP AS TO THE NEXT STEPS AS THEY REACH SENIOR YEARS. PEOPLE MAY MAP NO CHINA RETAINS ALL OWNERSHIP OF PANDAS, THEY ARE ON LOAN. PART OF THE AGREEMENT IS THE WORK WE GET TO DO TO BETTER UNDERSTAND WE CAN SHARE THE INFORMATION TO SAVE THEM BUT THAT SAID ANYTIME CHINA SAYS WE WANT THE PANDA BACK NOW, THEY GO BACK TO CHINA AFTER REACHING MATURITY AFTER THREE YEARS OF AGE THEY GO BACK. IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THEY MAY SEE THE ADVANTAGES THAT WE SEE IN KEEPING THEM HERE AT THE ZOO ALLOWING OUR SCIENTISTS AND KEEPERS TO SEE WHAT ARE THE GOLDEN YEARS OF THE PANDA LIKE AND HOW COULD CAN WE BETTER OFFER OF SITUATIONS IN THE WILD FOR THEM TO MAINTAIN THAT ? DO WE KNOW WHAT THE LIFESPAN IS ? I REFER BACK TO BARBER ON THAT IF THERE IS A NUMBER. IN THE WILD THEY THINK IT IS 20 YEARS MAXIMAL LIFESPAN, CAPTIVITY THERE HAVE BEEN PANDAS THAT LIVE AS LONG AS 31-32 YEARS. WHAT ARE THE SPECIES, BARBARA, ARE YOU WORKING WITH TO MAINTAIN POPULATION LEVELS ? WE HAVE A NUMBER OF SPECIES WE ARE WORKING WITH. ONE OF THE ONES WE ARE CONCENTRATING ATTENTION ON IS NORTHERN WHITE RHINO. THEY -- THERE ARE ONLY FIVE LEFT IN THE WORLD. WE HAVE AN OLD FEMALE IN THE COLLECTION NOW. BUT WE DO HAVE CELL LINES AND GERMPLASM FROM MANY MORE ANIMALS THAN ARE LIVING. SO WE HAVE CELL LINES FROM 12 WHITE RHINOS. THAT'S POTENTIALLY ENOUGH TO START ANOTHER POPULATION. OR TO REVIVE THE POPULATION. WHAT RICK SAID ABOUT FINDING A SUITABLE PLACE TO PUT THEM IN THE WILD, WE HAVE UGANDA IS INTERESTED IN REESTABLISHING A POPULATION OF NORTHERN WHITE RHINOS IN THEIR COUNTRY. WE ACTUALLY HAVE THAT PIECE OF THE PUZZLE. WE HAVE TO SEE WHAT WE CAN DO WITH THESE FIVE LIVING ANIMALS WHO ARE PROBABLY POST REPRODUCTION EXPECT IF THEY ARE POST REPRODUCTIVE, WHAT KIND OF CHANCE DO YOU HAVE OF RESTARTING THE SPECIES ? WE HAVE THE ADVANTAGE OF A VERY, VERY CLOSELY RELATED SPECIES, THE SOUTHERN WHITE RHINO. WE CAN DO THINGS LIKE HYBRIDIZING THE TWO SPECIES. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN ? BREATHING -- BREEDING A NORTHERN WHITE WRITER TO A SOUTHERN WHITE RHINO. WHEN OUR MAIL DIED IN DECEMBER, WE COLLECTED 200 VIALS OF HIS SPERM POSTMORTEM. THAT IS SAFELY IN THE FROZEN ZOO. WE CAN THOUGHT THAT, INSEMINATE, WE CAN CREATE A HYBRID. WE CAN ALSO TAKE HIS SPERM AND DO WHAT IS CALLED INTRACYTOPLASMIC SPERM INJECTION. NO MY. [ LAUGHTER ] ONE SPERM INJECTED INTO ONE EGG. ONE OF THE FEMALE, NORTHERN WHITE REINERS -- RHINOS LIVING IN KENYA IS ONLY 14 YEARS OLD. SO THERE'S A POSSIBILITY SHE CAN BE REPRODUCED OR WE CAN COLLECT VIABLE EGGS FROM HER AND WE CAN DO XE. TELL US ABOUT THE FROZEN ZOO. YOUTH WITHOUT OUT THERE. -- YOU THREW THAT OUT THERE. WHAT IS THAT ? IS A REPOSITORY OF CELL LINES AND GERMPLASM. WHEN IS A GERMPLASM I MEAN SPERM, EGGS, EMBRYOS. WE HAVE GONADAL TISSUE THAT CONTAINS THOSE GERM CELLS AND ALSO STEM CELLS. THE CELL LINES WE HAVE IN FROZEN ZOO, ABOUT 1000 INDIVIDUALS REPRESENTED. ABOUT 1000 SAMPLES FROM INDIVIDUALS OF SPERM AND EGGS OF OVER 500 SPECIES. A COUPLE OF THOSE ARE ACTUALLY EXTENT IN THE WILD. WE HAD THE RESERVE. THE FIBROBLAST CELLS THAT MAKE UP THE CELL LINES IN THE FROZEN ZOO ACTUALLY CAN BE INDUCED TO BE PRETTY POTENT STEM CELLS. -- PRE-POTENT STEM CELLS FROM THERE WE CAN TAKE A STEP BACK AND PERHAPS BE ABLE TO DO THIS, INDUCE THEM TO BECOME SPERM AND EGGS. THIS HAS BEEN DUMPED IN THE MOUSE, SO THE PRINCIPLE HAS BEEN PROVEN. IT HAS NOT BEEN DONE IN THE RHINO, YET, BUT THAT SOMETHING WE'RE WORKING ON. THIS SOUNDS LIKE JURASSIC PARK [ LAUGHTER ] ONE THING THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED IS WHY SUCH GREAT EFFORTS THING PUT INTO PREVENTING THE EXTENSION OF THE SPECIES WHEN THIS ONLY FIVE LEFT. YOU SAID IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S A LITTLE TOO LATE. ONE OF THE POSITIONS WE TAKE AS AN ORGANIZATION IS 30 BACK -- IS NOT TOO LATE. WHAT SPECIES DO WE WAIT AND DUE TO? WHAT IS A NUMBER? TO LET THE SPECIES GO EXTINCT, WHAT IS THE NEXT ONE? IF WE START THIS NOW AND DO THIS NOW, WE UNDERSTAND THERE IS AN ELEMENT OF POSSIBLY NOT MAKING IT HAPPEN BUT THROUGH FAILURE COMES THE ADVANTAGE OF LEARNING WHAT TO DO NEXT. I'M SORRY. LET'S TALK MORE ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE SEEING ABOUT WHERE IF INDEED YOU ARE ABLE TO REVIVE A SPECIES THAT WAS ABOUT TO GO EXTINCT, WHERE WOULD YOU PUT THEM AS BARBER WAS SAYING FOR THIS SPECIES, THERE IS A WELCOMING HOME IN UGANDA. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT OTHER SPECIES MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO RETURN TO THE WILD? THAT SOME ANIMALS WILL HAVE TO REMAIN IN ZOOS? OR WILD ANIMAL PARKS IN ORDER FOR THE SPECIES TO THIS -- TO SURVIVE ? IT'S POSSIBLE. I WISH I COULD SAY YES OR NO FOR SURE. OUR GOAL AS AN ORGANIZATION, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE SEVERAL PROJECTS GOING ON AROUND THE WORLD. WHETHER CHUNK OF LAND READY FOR ANIMALS, WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE MORE OR WE HAVE A BREEDING PROGRAM ESTABLISHED AND LOOKING TO WORK WITH THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO ESTABLISH SAFE LAND. THERE'S DIFFERENT VARIABLES FOR DIFFERENT SPECIES. IS IT POSSIBLE WE CAN END UP WITH A SPECIES THAT HAS NO NATIVE LAND OF THE LONGER? I SUPPOSE IT IS GENERALLY POSSIBLE IF YOU LOOK AT SOMETHING GOING ON AROUND THE WORLD TODAY. ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT, THOUGH, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A BIRD CALLED THE HAWAIIAN CROW THAT IS EXTINCT IN THE WILD IN HAWAII BUT WE HAVE A GREAT SUCCESSFUL READING PROGRAM AND IT WHEN YEARS TIME WE EXPECT BECAUSE WORKING WITH STATE AND FEDERAL AGENCIES, THEY WILL HAVE APPROPRIATE LAND-USE TO GO INTO AND START REPOPULATING THE WHILE PROPERTY. THAT'S PROPERLY. IT'S A WIDESPREAD WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WE STAY ON THE SIDE OF MOVING FORWARD AND LOOKING AT THE POSSIBILITIES. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE ZOO AND THE SAFARI PARK AS A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE WILL GO AND VISIT THIS TYPE -- TIME OF YEAR. I'M WONDERING, ARE THERE BABY ANIMALS ON DISPLAY THIS SPRING AT THE ZOO ? GOING INTO THE CONVERSATION A BREEDING ANIMALS, AND SUSTAINING POPULATIONS, EXACTLY. THERE IS ALWAYS SOMETHING NEW TO SEE AT THE ZOO OR SAFARI PARK GIVEN THE ADVANTAGEOUS CLIMATE WE LIVE IN AN THE CARE OUR ANIMALS GET, DOWN TO SEE A YOUNGSTER SOMEWHERE. WE HAVE A GORILLA A FEW MONTHS OLD BORN AROUND CHRISTMAS TIME AND ORANGUTAN THAT TURNED WHEN YOU'RE ALONE -- ONE-YEAR-OLD. IF YOU LOOK AT THE KOALAS, THERE'S A JOEY BIG ENOUGH THAT EVERY NOW AND THEN A LIMB STICKS OUT OF THE POUCH. IN ONE MONTH YOU WILL SEE HIM HANG OUT ON MOMMY'S BELLY. AT THE SAFARI PARK, THE TRAM TOUR, SAFARI TOUR, YOU WILL NOT BE SAD. THERE ARE MANY BABY -- BABIES OUT THERE THAT THE GUIDE CAN POINT OUT. YOUNG LINES, I'M HESITANT TO CALL THEM BABIES BECAUSE THEY GROW FAST. YOU CAN SEE THEM PLAYING. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE ANNUAL BUTTERFLY JUNGLE AT THE SAFARI PARK. I REALIZE THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU MAY NOT REALIZE IT AT FIRST IT IS PART OF THE PARKS CONSERVATION EFFORT. TELL US WHERE THE ICON SET OF THE -- THE CONCEPT OF THE BUTTERFLY JUNGLE ORIGINATED. A STEP BACK, PEOPLE GO TO THE ZOO AND SAFARI PARK AND ENJOY. WE ARE THERE FOR THAT THE -- I GUARANTEE EVERYTHING IS TIED BACK INTO A PROGRAM THAT WE HAD IN THE PAST OR CURRENTLY HAVE GOING ON. BUTTERFLY JUNGLE IS NO DIFFERENT. THE CONCEPT OF BUTTERFLY JUNGLE IS DEEP INTO THE CONSERVATION THAT YOU CANNOT SAY STOP HUNTING THESE ANIMALS, STOP WHEN YOUR CULTURE INTERACTS WITH MAJOR BECAUSE IT WILL BE IN DANGER. THE WAY CONSERVATION SUCCEEDS IT TO GET WITH THE COMMUNITIES AND POPULATIONS AND UNDERSTAND CULTURES AND WORK WITH THEM. BUTTERFLY JUNGLE IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW INSTEAD OF GOING INSANE YOU CANNOT CLEAR-CUT FOREST BECAUSE BUTTERFLIES WILL GO EXTINCT, IS HOW ABOUT WE HIRE YOU TO SUSTAINABLY HARVEST COCOONS AND CRYSTAL IS FOR US AND WE WILL PAY FOR YOU TO MAINTAIN THE FOREST AND WE CAN DISPLAY SOME POPULATION IN THE BUTTERFLY JUNGLE AND SAVE FORCE. WHY BUTTERFLIES AND WHY ARE THEY IMPORTANT? THEY ARE IMPORTANT FOR MANY REASONS, WHETHER PUBLIC -- POLLINATION PURPOSES, SUSTAINING LIFE FOR ANIMALS AS A FOOD STORES -- SOURCE. I TOOK MY DAUGHTER TO BUTTERFLY JUNGLE AND SHE WAS BESIDE HERSELF. I KNOW IT IS THE VISUAL EXCITED AND OF AN IMPORTANT CONSERVATION PROJECT. JUST FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT BEEN THERE, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT IT'S LIKE? IT'S A JUNGLE. HEAT AND HUMIDITY. IF YOU HAVE CAMERA EQUIPMENT OR A COOL MORNING IT CAN BE -- IT'S GOING TO BE HOT AND HUMID IT THERE BECAUSE IT IS A TRUE JUNGLE. AS HE WANT IN IS A DUAL DOOR BECAUSE IT'S REGULATED BY USDA. DON'T WANT THE ANIMALS ESCAPING INTO THE ENVIRONMENT. THEY ARE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD. IT'S AMAZING. DIFFERENT FRUIT EATING BIRDS, SEVERAL SPECIES FLYING AROUND. MOST BECAUSE WE COACH PEOPLE ABOUT CAREFUL HOW YOU WALK AND MOVE, YOU WILL WALK OUT HAVING AT LEAST ONE BUTTERFLY LAND ON YOU AT SOME POINT. GO WITH A FRIEND SO THEY CAN SPOT IF ONE LANDS ON YOUR HEAD AND TAKE A PICTURE BECAUSE IT'S WORTH IT. IT'S A GREAT TIME AND BEING TRANSPORTED TO A DIFFERENT CHUNK OF THE WORLD YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO BEFORE. OR IF YOU'RE FORTUNATE TO TRAVEL, IT YOU HAVE BEEN TO BUT IN SAN DIEGO IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY, SPRINGTIME TRADITION AT THIS POINT. BOTH OF YOU HAVE KEPT US UP TO DATE ON WHAT IS GOING ON AT THE ZOO. THE WONDERS THAT ARE THERE IN SAN DIEGO. BARBARA, WE WILL KEEP WATCHING AND WAITING AND KEEPING OUR FINGERS CROSSED FOR BAI YUN. I'VE BEEN SPEAKING WITH RICK SCHWARTZ, AMBASSADOR. SPEAKING WITH RICK SCHWARTZ, AMBASSADOR. BARBARA DURRANT, DIRECTOR OF REPRODUCTIVE PHYSIOLOGY AT SAN DIEGO ZOO INSTITUTE FOR CONSERVATION RESEARCH. THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH. THANK YOU.