San Diego Black Journalists Reflect On Racial Justice, Police Violence

Speaker 1: 00:01 A poll out today, shows Americans overwhelmingly support protests in cities nationwide. Following the Memorial day killing of George Floyd by police in Minneapolis, the poll done by the Washington post and Shar school also found a large majority feel. Police forces have not done enough to ensure that blacks are treated equally to whites as black journalists working in San Diego. My next two guests are keenly attuned to the attitudes of the public and police regarding racial injustices and conflict. Each had essays on the topic published in the past week in the union Tribune. Charles Clark is a reporter covering County government for the San Diego union Tribune. And Donna Stewart is news operations manager at NBC seven, San Diego and president of the San Diego association of black journalists. Welcome to you both. Speaker 2: 00:49 Thank you. Thank you. Speaker 1: 00:51 Well, a question for both to begin with, um, it's been more than a week since the protest started. How are you processing what you're seeing unfold? Speaker 2: 00:59 I'm still kind of working my way through it. I think I've gone through a couple of phases, I think at the start of this, uh, especially when George was killed, I was very, um, just frankly depressed and sad and angry, but as it's gone on and we've gotten farther away, I've really been heartened seeing just the outpouring of voices who are still out there speaking up. I mean, as one of my buddies out in New York actually pointed out when we were kind of comparing it to Ferguson that, you know, here there was a clear set of initial demands and, you know, we'll can debate about the timing, right, about how quickly they held officers accountable, but they have been arrested and yet we're still seeing kind of this momentum persist. And it really, I think speaks to kind of a larger moment here in reckoning, which is really encouraging. Speaker 3: 01:47 Yeah. I mean, I'd like to echo a lot of what Charles just said. I mean, it's very confusing time, but I mean, it's a lot to process, right? This has been something that's been going on for a long time. These are not new arguments. These are not new ideas, but somehow I think given the magnitude of, of the crowds, given the makeup and the diversity of the crowds that have been out protesting, I think there is a little bit more momentum behind, you know, some change. I I'm also heartened, um, as Charles kind of alluded to the, the arrest of the, of the four officers in Minneapolis. Um, but we've also had some change in our, in our police policies and law enforcement in here in San Diego, which I think is, um, is heartening. I mean, again, these are conversations we've been having for 20 years. I don't know why they were able to do it within a week of, of the unrest, but, um, I don't know why this couldn't have been done sooner, but regardless it's happening. Um, and that's, that is given me a little bit of hope. It's still a lot to process when you think that there are some people that still don't really understand what this is about. Speaker 1: 02:51 And I want to ask you both as black journalists in San Diego, how do you think local newsrooms are approaching this huge urgent story now compared with how coverage of similar tragedies has gone in the past first? Donna? Speaker 3: 03:02 You know, I, I will say I, you know, and this is going to sound like I'm trying to kiss the, uh, you know, kiss my, my, my boss's, um, rear ends, but it's not, I've felt like this for a long time that I'm very proud to work for this company in particular because of the stand that they take on diversity and inclusion and not just in our coverage. I think our coverage has been taken very seriously. We're making sure that we are talking about the issues and not just going after the low hanging fruit, uh, you know, the, the most dramatic stuff it's like, let's get to the core of the issues I wrote about in my little essay about, you know, having to talk about how parents of black children, you don't have to have the talk. We had a conversation, we sat down with three mothers and had explained what that feels like for them. Speaker 1: 03:43 And Charles, how do you think newsrooms are doing Speaker 2: 03:45 so I will say in San Diego specifically, I've been really impressed. I think nationally, you know, we've seen the uproar at some places like in Philly and, uh, you know, the New York times over Speaker 1: 03:57 that was quite a dust up over the Senator, Tom cotton. Op-ed I think that's what you're referring to. Speaker 2: 04:02 Yeah. Precisely. Yeah. Which, you know, kind of turning away from that and returning local with the UT, you know, at the start of this, uh, you know, admittedly, I was a bit nervous. Um, you know, I think there's a history of papers in particular, just broadly, not doing the best job with protests like these. And when you add to it that, you know, the UT we've had some fairly high profile incidents just in the past two years with, you know, some, uh, questionable cartoons and things that I think I know Donna and I, and, uh, other sta ABJ people have talked about before that were concerning to say the least. Um, so it's really been, I think, remarkable, I think our protest coverage, you know, just across the board, I think, you know, I, Andrew Phil, Andrea, Gary, all these people have really done a tremendous job in really, I think capturing the spirit of the protest very well and not getting too fixated on some of the other trappings that I think a lot of people like to point to, to distract from the conversations we're supposed to be having. Uh, and then with our UT ideas team, I really do applaud Matt hall and the rest of the team for, I think really aggressively trying to put black voices at the forefront of this conversation. Um, I think even with them deciding to run what I wrote, which was originally just something I wrote on medium, uh, and didn't exactly tip anyone off that I was doing it. Uh, you know, I know there's a lot of newsrooms where that probably would not have been very well received. Speaker 1: 05:33 And Donna is president of the local chapter of the national association of black journalists. What are you hearing from members about what it's been like for them in the field covering the protests? Speaker 3: 05:42 It's just hard. I'm going to sort of preface this with COVID-19 in terms of how journalists in general are now having to cover stories that are directly affecting them. Now, when we move into the conversations around George Floyd and the protests and all that, it hits us in a personal way that us covering the story doesn't normally affect us. And I think that it's, it's been hard. My first thing culmination with the coverage was seeing Omar Jimenez get arrested on the air for no explanation, you know, the CNN reporter. And I was like that to me, was just so indicative of where the disparities are, you know, where the, where the, where the conflicts are, that he could be arrested for what he was cooperating. It was all clear yet this officer that kneeled on George Floyd's neck took four days for him to be arrested and a week for the rest of them to be, you know, found complicit. So it does take a toll on us. So that's what I'm hearing mostly is that we're exhausted that it is just we're having to do our job, which is what we would be doing under any circumstances. But we have that extra layer of exhaustion of what are we doing this again? Are we talking about this again? Why, what are people not understanding about this? Why is this such a bike? Speaker 1: 06:58 And Charles you write about your frustration, anger, and sadness over the fact that we, all of us have the potential to be better, that we could build a kinder, more compassionate, equitable society, but, but we haven't yet you remain hopeful now in the wake of the George Floyd killing the nation and the world could change for the better. Why Speaker 2: 07:17 not really, for me, I guess it's kind of, I thought about it more and more. It took me a while to reach that point, to be honest. But when I look around, although there are always people who try to distract from the conversations we should be having, or try to downplay these things, certainly in my lifetime, this seems to be an unprecedented moment where you're not only seeing nationally this reaction, but you're seeing an international reaction, uh, and shows a solidarity. Uh, and, and I think what it comes down to too, that really strikes me as kind of different about this moment is it really doesn't seem like there's anything that is going to make it lose steam. And you add to that as something Donna brought up earlier, you're actually seeing the protest deliver results, right. You know, you're seeing some of these police departments and Sheriff's departments take steps that they resisted for more than a decade. Speaker 2: 08:13 Uh, and then even when I just, you know, think about kind of the personal side of it, you know, you're seeing people make, you know, even small gestures and shows a solidarity. I mean, I look at Minneapolis where I actually lived for 13 years. Um, and I see childhood friends who are not black, who are out there aggressively not only marching and protesting, but doing different things to uplift members of the community and amplified black voices. Uh, and they're certainly not going anywhere here. So I think it's really encouraging, you know, I talked to my parents and my dad who was born just before the civil rights act was passed. And I think even for him, this seems to be something that he has never really seen before. Speaker 3: 08:55 And Speaker 1: 08:56 I certainly find that a promising Charles, his article made me feel hopeful. It was, it was something that, um, I hadn't thought about and the idea that, that Jianna Floyd could think, Oh, this my dad's making a change. Right. She's just lost her dad. But she, you know, on some level she is seeing that his death, hopefully it was not in vain in terms of finally getting that conversation going that Charles was talking about. I am also encouraged by, as I mentioned earlier, the diversity of the crowds and the intensity of the crowds that have been out. And I've been, I'm encouraged by the conversations that I'm having with friends. And, you know, we're looking at trying to change people's hearts, right? Not in it. And it has to start with the legal system, but then changing people's hearts is what's going to take the long time. And so I'm telling my friends with kids, teach your children will teach your children well and teach them that it's up to them. And once, once we have that change, then we're, we're talking about making a big difference. I've been speaking with Charles Clark of the San Diego union Tribune and Donna steward of NBC seven in San Diego. And she's president of the San Diego association of black journalists. Thanks to you both. Speaker 3: 10:05 Okay. Thank you, Mark.