Play Live Radio
Next Up:
Available On Air Stations

UC San Diego virtual panel Monday will explore ongoing crisis in Ukraine

 March 7, 2022 at 1:47 PM PST

00:00:00.840 --> 00:00:09.660
The far reaching impact of Russia's invasion into Ukraine , and I think we have to be prepared , unfortunately tragically for this to go on for some time.
00:00:09.990 --> 00:00:12.210
I'm Jade Hindman with Maureen Cavanaugh.
00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:15.000
This is KPBS midday edition.
00:00:24.730 --> 00:00:29.500
A grim look at climate change and how the oceans could change its course.
00:00:29.860 --> 00:00:38.120
The idea that there is a window of opportunity to secure a livable and sustainable future for all.
00:00:38.140 --> 00:00:39.190
That's closing.
00:00:39.190 --> 00:00:48.280
It was really a very stark statement and the high cost of housing is causing a migration south and five works of art you should check out this month.
00:00:48.490 --> 00:00:49.990
That's ahead on midday edition.
00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:14.710
Today marks day 12 of the Russian invasion of Ukraine , one which has brought destruction to Ukrainian cities , refugees streaming across borders and worldwide economic and political turmoil.
00:01:15.010 --> 00:01:23.140
The ongoing crisis in Ukraine is the focus of an online forum this evening from UC San Diego School of Global Policy and Strategy.
00:01:23.590 --> 00:01:33.340
The free event will feature experts to discuss the political , economic and military impacts spurred by Russia's invasion of Ukraine and what possibilities could be ahead.
00:01:33.670 --> 00:01:41.440
Joining me is the moderator of the event , Stephan Haggard , professor from UC San Diego School of Global Policy and Strategy.
00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:42.580
Stefan , welcome.
00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:44.440
I'm really happy to join you.
00:01:44.770 --> 00:01:48.730
Talk to me a bit about why you feel it's so important to hold this event.
00:01:49.360 --> 00:02:00.670
Well , this is just clearly one of the most significant events and international political histories since the collapse of the Soviet Union in December of 1991.
00:02:01.180 --> 00:02:13.540
And in some ways , I think it's more significant than 911 because it and it augurs for a fundamental realignment of world politics in ways that I'm sure we'll be talking about.
00:02:13.880 --> 00:02:14.230
00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:22.500
And I mean , what are some of the big questions you'll be asking later today ? Well , I think there are three or four buckets of questions.
00:02:22.510 --> 00:02:35.530
Obviously , people are interested in Putin's motives and whether he miscalculated and the whole question of off ramps for him and getting to some kind of negotiated settlement , if that's possible.
00:02:36.040 --> 00:03:10.300
But there are also some longer run issues here that I think just like what's the Russia and China relationship going to look like as a result of this ? What's the future of NEDA ? What's the future of NATO enlargement and more broadly , this question of democracy in the world ? I personally think that one of Putin's fears of Ukraine was precisely that it was a robust democratic state and not fully European democratic , but nonetheless going in that direction and having such an entity on his border was a thorn in the side.
00:03:10.750 --> 00:03:21.620
I mean , what do you think Russia wants ? What does Russia want ? What did ? Why did they invade Ukraine ? I think the events of August in Belarus were actually quite significant.
00:03:21.640 --> 00:03:23.230
I don't think that's gotten the attention.
00:03:23.230 --> 00:03:35.560
It deserves wide ranging protests against a long sitting dictator in which the Russians actually were involved in order to support Lukashenko's efforts to maintain power there.
00:03:36.040 --> 00:03:42.280
And we've seen from the Russian response to democratic developments in Georgia in 2008.
00:03:42.670 --> 00:04:17.800
And remember the earlier protests in Ukraine , both in 2004 and 2014 , which sent signals to Putin that I think we're worrying about the way that Central Asia could develop in the future ? Circling back to Naito , can you talk about the role of Naito in this conflict ? NATO's role is extremely complicated because I think that the Western European leaders and obviously President Biden as well are extraordinarily cautious about getting Naito involved in this conflict directly.
00:04:18.250 --> 00:04:29.680
I think some of your listeners may have seen this controversy about whether we would supply aircraft to Poland that would allow Poland to supply MiGs to Ukraine.
00:04:30.100 --> 00:04:46.000
And there's just a tremendous amount of caution being exercised here because if Putin were to believe that NATO were involved , we're worried , of course , that he would test NATO's Article five commitment , perhaps in the Baltics or in that country.
00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:47.860
That's not a NATO member like Finland.
00:04:48.580 --> 00:04:55.300
And obviously , one reason this conflict is getting such attention is the fact that Russia is a nuclear power.
00:04:55.450 --> 00:05:09.300
How does that change the range of policy options both in the U.S. and Europe ? It just simply adds to the cautionary note that I suggest you don't want to see this thing escalate.
00:05:09.690 --> 00:05:23.520
I think President Biden has been very clear that US and Western European actions are going to be focused primarily on two fronts first on sanctions , which we can talk about and then the resupply of weapons.
00:05:24.030 --> 00:05:30.420
But without having any American or NATO's forces cross that Ukraine border.
00:05:31.500 --> 00:05:39.090
Now , economically , the soaring cost of oil prices and in turn gas prices is really hard to ignore closer to home.
00:05:39.270 --> 00:06:05.750
But what are some of the big economic questions your event will tackle ? The biggest event , I think , is probably what the effect of this is on the world economy because obviously the spike in gas prices , which I think is driven in part by uncertainty as much as the actual supply circumstances , and I can explain that whether that's going to end up being a drag , not just on the American economy , but on the world economy.
00:06:06.320 --> 00:06:12.260
But the other issue , of course , is how to calibrate sanctions exactly so that they're most effective.
00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:39.140
And again , I think the Biden administration is exercising some caution because if these sanctions on gas and oil are pushed through , one perverse effect is that prices will rise and therefore the oil and gas that Putin can sell is actually of more value , not to mention just the pain which is inflicted on more dependent parties and in Eastern Europe in particular.
00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:43.700
So I think the question of the larger economic effects on the world economy.
00:06:44.060 --> 00:06:52.550
And then the question of whether sanctions should be extended to Russian oil and gas exports are two of the main questions we'll be discussing.
00:06:53.330 --> 00:06:57.290
Earlier , you mentioned the role of sanctions in combating Russia.
00:06:57.320 --> 00:07:03.680
You have written extensively about North Korea and about the role sanctions have played in relations with that country.
00:07:03.950 --> 00:07:13.040
Are there any lessons in that case that may be applicable to Russia today ? I think the use of sanctions is not very well understood.
00:07:13.430 --> 00:07:21.380
We know that they don't always work and in fact , they don't typically work in getting an adversary to do what you want.
00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:32.880
So I don't think that the sanctions are going to have the effect of giving Putin second thoughts or leading him in a different course with respect to the military campaign in Ukraine.
00:07:33.530 --> 00:07:36.050
But that's not the only purpose of sanctions.
00:07:36.050 --> 00:07:39.680
They also have a longer run deterrent effect.
00:07:40.100 --> 00:07:52.190
And more importantly , I think these sanctions were really aimed at degrading Russian capabilities over the long run , making it more difficult for them to do what they're doing now in the future.
00:07:53.330 --> 00:08:00.860
And you know , at the start of this interview , you made reference to how this war may impact relations between China and Russia.
00:08:01.280 --> 00:08:13.100
What's your biggest question as it pertains to that ? To me , this is actually the biggest geostrategic question , that's exactly what the Russia and China relationship would look like.
00:08:13.640 --> 00:08:19.160
And we're going to be holding another webinar next week on this , but just a few bullets on this first.
00:08:19.160 --> 00:08:34.190
I think China is actually in a quite difficult position because its foreign policy since its founding was centered on the principle of non-interference in the affairs of others and its affairs in particular.
00:08:34.580 --> 00:08:43.280
And now Xi Jinping has decided to throw his lot in with a Russia that has invaded a sovereign country.
00:08:43.790 --> 00:08:49.040
So I think that there this is not an easy circumstance for China altogether.
00:08:49.400 --> 00:08:55.910
But on the other hand , we saw at the Olympics that Putin and Xi issued a wide ranging joint statement.
00:08:56.420 --> 00:09:08.120
The first topic in that joint statement was about their conception of democracy and how they didn't want to see democracy along Western lines exported , including to them.
00:09:08.810 --> 00:09:18.050
And so I do think there's going to be a meeting of minds and closer coordination between China and Russia going forward than we've seen in the past.
00:09:18.590 --> 00:09:34.130
How can people find tonight's forum ? If you go to the web website of the School of Global Policy and Strategy , they'll be an event banner there that will allow people to access , and we've been really surprised at the at the wonderful turnout we're getting.
00:09:34.520 --> 00:09:36.890
There are about 500 people now signed up for the event.
00:09:37.130 --> 00:09:37.610
All right.
00:09:37.880 --> 00:09:51.320
I've been speaking with Stephan Haggard , professor from UC San Diego School of Global Policy and Strategy and moderator of this evening's free online event on the crisis in Ukraine , which starts at five p.m. today.
00:09:51.620 --> 00:09:53.390
Stefan , thank you so much for joining us.
00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:54.800
My pleasure.
00:10:02.820 --> 00:10:11.340
The window of opportunity for the world to secure a livable future and avoid an advancing climate change disaster is rapidly closing.
00:10:11.670 --> 00:10:17.160
Stark observations like this are not typical in United Nations climate change reports.
00:10:17.430 --> 00:10:31.410
So the language used in the recently published report by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change caught a lot of attention , including that of Margaret Leinen , director of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography at UC San Diego.
00:10:31.740 --> 00:10:39.360
And she believes the ocean is often overlooked when evaluating the effects of climate change and its potential to offer solutions.
00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:40.260
00:10:40.260 --> 00:10:48.480
Leinen wrote an op ed in the hill to express what we know about climate change and the Earth's oceans and why we need to know more.
00:10:48.660 --> 00:10:50.430
Professor Leinen , welcome to the program.
00:10:50.670 --> 00:10:52.200
It's a pleasure to be with you.
00:10:52.470 --> 00:11:11.280
What was it about the language used in the IPCC report released last month that struck you as more blunt and urgent than usual ? The IPCC has used the term unequivocal before they've used it in terms that it's unequivocal that humans have influenced climate.
00:11:11.490 --> 00:11:33.600
But I think that the idea that there is a window of opportunity to secure a livable and sustainable future for all that's closing really caught not only my attention , but that of my co-author , the director of Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution , as well as a host of other scientists around the world.
00:11:33.630 --> 00:11:37.530
It was really a very stark statement for IPCC.
00:11:37.830 --> 00:11:46.160
And why do you think the threat of climate change is now being expressed in these terms ? I think it's because the impacts are so clear.
00:11:46.170 --> 00:11:55.290
We see the impacts in terms of precipitation with very large scale changes in drought and flood.
00:11:55.560 --> 00:12:07.090
We see the impact in sea level rise with many more events that are really damaging coastal areas and coastal infrastructure here in California.
00:12:07.110 --> 00:12:15.180
We've seen very progressive and rapid increase in the number of wildfires in the area that they burn.
00:12:15.300 --> 00:12:25.860
We've seen heatwaves that are actually killing people and heat waves in the ocean that are changing the ocean ecosystem very strongly.
00:12:26.460 --> 00:12:31.410
As you write in your op ed , 70 percent of the Earth is covered by the ocean.
00:12:31.920 --> 00:12:44.930
Do we know enough about how warming and climate change are affecting that vast area of the Earth ? Well , we know some things , but we don't know exactly how they will impact us.
00:12:44.940 --> 00:13:00.410
For example , we know that more than 90 percent of the heat produced by human activity since the beginning of the industrial age has been absorbed by the ocean , and we can measure the rate of increase in temperature of the ocean.
00:13:00.450 --> 00:13:01.430
And we do.
00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:14.670
But it's harder to see exactly how that heat is affecting ecosystems because we haven't been able to observe them in detail for long enough to see the change.
00:13:14.820 --> 00:13:18.360
There are a few areas of the ocean where we do do that.
00:13:18.570 --> 00:13:33.330
Scripps has a program together with Noah called the California Cooperative Fisheries Investigation Cal Coffee , and it has been looking at the fisheries off Southern California for more than 65 years.
00:13:33.630 --> 00:13:39.330
And so we have really seen change there , but we haven't been able to do that everywhere.
00:13:39.450 --> 00:13:44.040
So , for example , Northern California does not have the same length of record.
00:13:44.040 --> 00:13:53.820
And so without that , it's hard to be able to predict what's going to happen to these important fisheries and other ecosystems.
00:13:54.180 --> 00:13:57.810
You mentioned sea level rise and now you've been talking about fisheries.
00:13:58.050 --> 00:14:03.090
We also know of some other impacts of climate change on the ocean and its inhabitants.
00:14:03.300 --> 00:14:22.140
Can you tell us about that ? The heating of the ocean is affecting coral reefs and coral reefs are important , not just because they're beautiful and we all enjoy them and they're great places for recreation , but they're also nurseries for many , many different fish species.
00:14:22.710 --> 00:14:34.710
There are also the reefs actually protect the coastal areas behind them , and reefs are rapidly being undergoing coral bleaching.
00:14:34.740 --> 00:14:39.810
We've heard that and bleaching is a direct result of the warming of the ocean.
00:14:39.900 --> 00:14:42.520
So that's an example in fisheries.
00:14:42.780 --> 00:14:56.910
We know that that many fisheries are moving , so the fish , as the ocean warms , they're moving to colder waters , and that means that they may not be close by for local fishermen.
00:14:57.300 --> 00:15:02.310
So those are a couple of examples of the impacts on other areas of.
00:15:02.400 --> 00:15:10.640
The ocean professor is it's hard to see what is actually going on in the ocean satellites can't see into its depths.
00:15:10.880 --> 00:15:35.930
What will it take to be able to see into the ocean and do the science needed to understand what's going on ? What we really need a whole new generation of observation technologies , and most of these are are focused on being able to access the ocean without big ships so floats , drifters , moorings and so forth.
00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:44.990
We have some of these , but we don't have enough to really look at the ocean and its full extent or its full depth.
00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:56.990
So most of our observing systems , even the automated ones like this , are excellent for the upper part of the ocean , but they don't give us clues about what's happening at depth.
00:15:57.260 --> 00:16:02.690
And we know that that even very deep waters affect what's going on on the surface.
00:16:02.780 --> 00:16:19.700
So being able to get to depths and being able to have a whole new array of technologies that would , for example , allow us to look at the biology and not just the big organisms , but also the microscopic ones that are at the base of the food chain.
00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:27.920
And is that investment being made in that new generation of observational vehicles ? There are some great investments that have been made.
00:16:28.220 --> 00:16:41.090
The National Science Foundation funded what was called the Ocean Observatories Initiative to develop new kinds of observation instruments , and it had a lot of focus on deep water.
00:16:41.280 --> 00:16:55.660
The a multi-agency program called Argo that was actually developed at Scripps has almost 4000 autonomous floats in the ocean , measuring temperature and salinity.
00:16:55.670 --> 00:17:01.910
But these 4000 floats don't routinely measure things related to biology.
00:17:01.970 --> 00:17:08.750
New programs are developing that will do this , but they don't have that extent of observations.
00:17:08.900 --> 00:17:13.280
And then there's the need for actually looking at the air.
00:17:13.280 --> 00:17:24.830
Sea change in the ocean air sea exchange is really important because that's where all of that CO2 is taken up by the ocean and heat is taken up.
00:17:25.130 --> 00:17:37.880
So we really need to know whether the ocean is changing in its heat uptake or its CO2 uptake , and that relies on excellent observations of air sea exchange.
00:17:38.180 --> 00:17:47.030
And that brings us to the opportunities that might exist that the ocean holds for doing even more to reduce the consequences of climate change in the future.
00:17:47.150 --> 00:17:49.550
Are you optimistic about that ? I am.
00:17:49.760 --> 00:18:07.160
I think that there is a growing recognition that what scientists call blue carbon will play a role , and by that term , blue carbon , they mean the uptake of carbon by the ocean ecosystem.
00:18:07.610 --> 00:18:16.490
For example , mangroves and seagrass when they're healthy , take up CO2 just like other plants do.
00:18:16.760 --> 00:18:26.210
And they also trap organic material carbon in the sediment around the roots of the mangrove and the seaweed.
00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:36.470
And so extending the mangrove areas and seagrass areas naturally takes up more carbon , and it sequesters carbon.
00:18:36.770 --> 00:18:39.710
So that's a great example of what we call blue carbon.
00:18:40.280 --> 00:18:56.360
There are other ideas out there that would actually take CO2 , the dissolved CO2 out of the ocean and sequester it somewhere , and those are at a much earlier stage of research.
00:18:56.630 --> 00:19:03.200
And that's an example of something that we have to understand more completely to see if it would work.
00:19:03.620 --> 00:19:12.920
These are complicated endeavors , both observing the ocean and also trying to figure out solutions to climate change that the ocean might offer us.
00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:27.620
Do you worry that people who are in a position to act won't act and the needed investments won't be made to find solutions ? It has been difficult to add greater funding for ocean research.
00:19:28.940 --> 00:19:50.500
You know , countries always have lots of priorities , but I think that the recognition by the UN framework for climate change , that's the negotiating body that gets together every year and talks about what's happening with the ocean or what's happening in climate and the impacts of climate change.
00:19:50.510 --> 00:19:58.490
They have taken up the ocean , and they have now said the ocean will be a part of their annual negotiations.
00:19:58.520 --> 00:20:01.820
It will be a part of their studies like future.
00:20:02.630 --> 00:20:03.350
00:20:03.740 --> 00:20:10.370
And that's a big change from just a couple of years ago when the oceans weren't part of the climate discussions at all.
00:20:10.940 --> 00:20:17.390
I've been speaking with Professor Margaret Line and director of Scripps Institution of Oceanography at UC San Diego.
00:20:17.570 --> 00:20:19.340
Professor Leinen , thank you very much.
00:20:20.090 --> 00:20:21.080
It was my pleasure.
00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:35.730
This is KPBS midday edition.
00:20:35.750 --> 00:20:37.820
I'm Maureen Cavanaugh with Jade Heineman.
00:20:38.330 --> 00:20:44.990
Tijuana has long been a refuge for people who can't or don't want to pay the sky high costs to live in San Diego.
00:20:45.350 --> 00:20:51.830
But now , with San Diego becoming the most unaffordable place in the U.S. , even more are making the move.
00:20:51.860 --> 00:20:58.670
And as KPBS border reporter Gustavo Solis explains , this is having a big impact on life in Tijuana.
00:20:59.570 --> 00:21:04.460
I'm spending the afternoon with Gustavo Chacon , Tijuana realtor , with a flair for showmanship.
00:21:04.910 --> 00:21:09.350
So this is the main room , and in this you have a balcony.
00:21:11.270 --> 00:21:19.580
He's the type of realtor who walks you into a dark master bedroom , then with a flourish , opens the curtain to reveal a beautiful view of Tijuana's eastern mountains.
00:21:19.670 --> 00:21:26.300
And you have a balcony where you can actually put a table and some chairs and enjoy the afternoon.
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:29.240
This type of house is nine hundred and fifty dollars.
00:21:29.630 --> 00:21:32.600
We're in a two bedroom house in TJs Las Palmas neighborhood.
00:21:32.930 --> 00:21:38.270
It's got a small yard and a balcony , and it's just 15 minutes away from the border in San Diego.
00:21:38.510 --> 00:21:41.510
That nine hundred and fifty dollars a month might get you a studio.
00:21:41.750 --> 00:21:46.830
Tijuana has always been a place where Americans can live affordably while continuing to work in San Diego.
00:21:47.060 --> 00:21:51.620
But in 2020 , to America's finest city also became its most unaffordable.
00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:56.900
According to Audio Labs , it's one of the reasons why the stream of people heading south has become a flood.
00:21:57.110 --> 00:22:02.120
Out of 10 people that call us , seven of them are from the United States.
00:22:02.360 --> 00:22:05.000
Jill Holstein is a professor at San Diego State University.
00:22:05.090 --> 00:22:08.300
She moved to Tijuana after the 2007 financial crisis.
00:22:08.450 --> 00:22:24.260
So we have that luxury really of living on the border and being able to sort of have it both ways , you know , pay low rent and have a lower cost of living in Tijuana and then have the powerful earning power of the United States.
00:22:24.440 --> 00:22:27.440
She lost her North Park condo in the subprime mortgage crisis.
00:22:27.650 --> 00:22:34.200
But that misfortune gave her an opportunity to make a move she'd wanted to make for a long time when wholesale moved to Tijuana in 2011.
00:22:34.280 --> 00:22:35.750
Her children thought it was edgy.
00:22:36.140 --> 00:22:38.630
Her co-workers thought it was more quirky and unusual.
00:22:38.780 --> 00:22:45.080
But over the last few years , and especially during the pandemic , Olsen says that friends and co-workers have been hitting her up for advice.
00:22:45.260 --> 00:22:50.830
You know , explain to me how you did this because I'm really thinking about it , but I don't understand what to do.
00:22:50.840 --> 00:22:51.730
I don't know.
00:22:51.740 --> 00:22:57.480
Like how much should I pay for rent and where should I go ? Scott Asher is among the new arrivals.
00:22:57.500 --> 00:23:01.970
He's a freelancer , works as a digital artist , makes YouTube videos and is into NFTs.
00:23:02.180 --> 00:23:05.420
He went 18 months without finding steady work during the pandemic.
00:23:05.990 --> 00:23:08.530
It was a solution that I needed.
00:23:08.540 --> 00:23:09.530
I was in the market for.
00:23:09.770 --> 00:23:13.940
I need a place to live , right ? So it's definitely a solution for a place to live.
00:23:14.600 --> 00:23:20.870
Asher is paying five hundred and fifty a month for a two bedroom apartment in a Sonata about an hour and a half away from the border.
00:23:21.050 --> 00:23:25.130
He couldn't find anything as nice for that price in Tijuana , let alone San Diego.
00:23:25.280 --> 00:23:33.770
And it's not just lower rent , Asher says he pays less for food , utilities , cell phone bill , dental visits and even car insurance.
00:23:34.280 --> 00:23:41.240
I don't know what place I'll be able for in California , but every time someone like Asher makes the move south , there's an impact.
00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:44.810
The neighborhoods become less affordable for the people already living there.
00:23:45.020 --> 00:23:45.620
Check on.
00:23:45.620 --> 00:23:50.360
The local realtor says that what's been happening in San Diego for decades is now happening in Tijuana.
00:23:50.540 --> 00:24:02.150
The people who make less are having a hard time to buy property or to work to rent there , and also adding the shortage of production of housing that home with a balcony.
00:24:02.330 --> 00:24:03.890
The one going for 950 a month.
00:24:04.130 --> 00:24:06.500
It rented for 750 just a few years ago.
00:24:06.740 --> 00:24:14.780
Tijuana landlords know that they can make a lot more money by renting to Americans and residents who live in upper middle class neighborhoods near the border are seeing their rents go up.
00:24:15.020 --> 00:24:20.870
But unlike Americans , people already living in Tijuana cannot simply cross the border to find more affordable housing.
00:24:21.080 --> 00:24:28.460
Instead , they're priced out and going to the outskirts of town in neighborhoods with fewer jobs , less public services and more crime.
00:24:28.670 --> 00:24:29.420
It is.
00:24:29.420 --> 00:24:42.050
It is something that's going to affect a lot of people middle class and lower class and working class , and it is going to affect them in the long run because the prices are going to go higher.
00:24:43.130 --> 00:24:48.290
And same thing is going to happen that is happening in San Diego to Tijuana.
00:24:50.730 --> 00:24:54.300
Joining me is KPBS border reporter Gustavo Solis.
00:24:54.330 --> 00:24:55.500
Gustavo , welcome.
00:24:56.790 --> 00:24:58.830
Thank you , Maureen , appreciate you having me on.
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:05.460
Now , one of the reasons for San Diego's high real estate prices is our ongoing housing shortage.
00:25:05.670 --> 00:25:19.440
Does Tijuana have enough housing ? They do , for now , right ? That last part of the reason why the prices in Tijuana are starting to go up is because construction isn't really keeping up all that much.
00:25:19.770 --> 00:25:25.410
A lot of the newer construction in Tijuana is the luxury condos that you see popping up near the border.
00:25:25.560 --> 00:25:28.800
I live in Imperial Beach and I can just see them like every year.
00:25:28.800 --> 00:25:32.340
It seems like there's a new tower that you can see from from San Diego.
00:25:32.760 --> 00:25:38.940
But that said , there's less construction going on and just frankly , there's not enough space to keep up with the demand.
00:25:38.970 --> 00:25:44.400
So what's been happening in San Diego for four decades now is starting to happen in Tijuana.
00:25:45.660 --> 00:26:02.100
So what is the process like for people who are interested in renting in Baja ? Do you just call up a rental agent and go , is there any red tape involved ? Similar to what you would find here ? I think the best way to go would be to go with somebody who knows the market.
00:26:02.100 --> 00:26:06.030
At least if you have a friend or family member who lives in Tijuana , that helps.
00:26:06.060 --> 00:26:13.000
You can get access to local deals if you don't know anyone is in your best interest to go through a realtor.
00:26:13.020 --> 00:26:18.870
They have licensed realtors in Baja California now , and that's important because like here , there's a lot of housing scams.
00:26:19.140 --> 00:26:23.250
Americans who don't have too much experience in Mexico might think it's a little bit lawless.
00:26:23.250 --> 00:26:26.550
You just kind of pay under the table , you find what you can get.
00:26:26.910 --> 00:26:36.150
But there is a process in place and it's best to go through someone who knows that process just really to protect yourself , right ? Make sure you're renting from the right place.
00:26:36.150 --> 00:26:40.140
Make sure the people you're renting from actually own the property and to rent it.
00:26:40.540 --> 00:26:45.690
You should just do similar due diligence that you would do while you're looking for rent here.
00:26:46.620 --> 00:26:49.200
Now you talk about Americans renting in Baja.
00:26:49.230 --> 00:27:03.930
What about buying property ? Isn't it more complicated for foreigners to buy property in Mexico ? Yes , it is more complicated , so I would encourage anyone thinking of doing that to to find a lawyer , a reliable lawyer they can trust.
00:27:03.930 --> 00:27:06.630
Again , go through a realtor , their license realtors down there.
00:27:07.020 --> 00:27:09.570
People forget , right ? Tijuana is another country.
00:27:09.780 --> 00:27:19.440
You can drive there in 15 minutes , but you are dealing with it with a different country , with different judicial system and different laws , especially around property laws.
00:27:19.450 --> 00:27:29.820
So I would just encourage people to keep that in mind when they're when they're thinking about this and talking about these issues , right ? People tend to think like , Oh , I can just drive down there and do the same thing I'm doing here.
00:27:30.390 --> 00:27:32.340
No , I mean , it's a different country.
00:27:32.700 --> 00:27:37.650
Tijuana is more Americanized , right ? You hear more people speak English , more people accept dollars.
00:27:37.950 --> 00:27:44.400
And that kind of helps negate a little bit of the culture shock that you would normally see when you go to another country.
00:27:44.670 --> 00:27:51.030
So it's a little bit easier to forget that you are in another country , but you are , and you should take that into consideration.
00:27:52.020 --> 00:27:57.990
Gustavo , you say that you are seeing housing luxury housing developments go up in Tijuana.
00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:02.580
Is that because of the increased interest from Americans ? I believe so.
00:28:02.610 --> 00:28:14.970
I mean , if you look at the prices and if you look at the marketing , it's tailored to an American consumer base and the location to a lot of these are popping up close to the border.
00:28:14.970 --> 00:28:23.610
And they kind of in their in their brochures , they say , you know , 15 minutes to the border , 10 minutes to the border.
00:28:23.610 --> 00:28:39.660
It's tailor made for people who want to live in Mexico and work in the U.S. obviously earn that that power of the dollars and be able to live in pesos now because Americans are driving up rents in Tijuana.
00:28:39.930 --> 00:28:48.350
Is there any sort of backlash against Americans living in T.J. ? I don't know if I would call it backlash , but similar tension.
00:28:48.360 --> 00:28:51.720
I would definitely use the word tension in the sources to use the word tension.
00:28:51.750 --> 00:28:55.770
I would describe it almost as binational gentrification.
00:28:56.280 --> 00:29:15.690
Right ? Similar tension to what you might see in in places like Barrio Logan , right , where they're predominantly or historically working class tight-knit communities and people that are being displaced by people who aren't from that community and can pay a lot more money than the people there are used to.
00:29:16.110 --> 00:29:27.720
Now it does help the attitude and the way you go about living in another country , right ? One of the sources I talked to Jill Holston , she moved there back in 2011.
00:29:28.140 --> 00:29:29.560
She already knew Spanish.
00:29:29.580 --> 00:29:30.420
So that helped.
00:29:30.750 --> 00:29:41.730
But she went out of her way to really make friends with local Tijuana and says to not limit herself , to only hitting out with with the English , only with the expat crowd.
00:29:41.970 --> 00:29:49.260
She wanted to be a part of that community and contribute to that community instead of just going over there to take advantage of the cheap rent.
00:29:49.690 --> 00:29:59.560
And I think people there , like in any community , they notice that right when you show an interest in a community , when you make an effort it , it makes you a little bit more welcome.
00:29:59.560 --> 00:30:04.270
Then , as opposed to if you just go there , you don't really interact with your neighbors.
00:30:05.020 --> 00:30:11.710
You don't really vibe or follow the customs over there , then I think there might be more tension if you kind of treat it that way.
00:30:12.550 --> 00:30:32.170
And are there any rent control laws that could help Tijuana residents from seeing their rents skyrocket ? Well , that's one of the things I asked everyone I talked to in Tijuana , right ? Because we're seeing we're starting to see rents increase and that's displacing working class , middle class folks , specially people who earn in pesos.
00:30:32.170 --> 00:30:41.080
And I would ask everyone , what what protections are there ? Are there any advocacy organizations ? And the response I got was , No.
00:30:41.770 --> 00:30:52.150
Tijuana doesn't have this culture history of tenant advocacy like we have here in San Diego with with different organizations that do eviction prevention and different type of aid like that.
00:30:52.690 --> 00:30:58.840
There are laws in the books , but the fact of the matter is that in Mexico , you can have a lot of laws on the books.
00:30:58.840 --> 00:31:07.150
But if there's no enforcement mechanism or willingness to enforce from the part of the government , then that doesn't really make a whole lot of difference.
00:31:08.560 --> 00:31:11.650
I've been speaking with KPBS border reporter Gustavo Solis.
00:31:12.070 --> 00:31:13.060
Gustavo , thank you.
00:31:13.990 --> 00:31:14.710
Thank you , Maureen.
00:31:14.710 --> 00:31:15.310
Appreciate it.
00:31:23.830 --> 00:31:26.180
You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition.
00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:28.570
I'm Jade Hindman with Maureen Cavanaugh.
00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:38.920
Each month , we bring you five works of visual art that you can find in San Diego , whether in galleries or on the sides of buildings and even in a remote citrus grove.
00:31:39.250 --> 00:31:45.910
Joining me to discuss her selections this month is KPBS arts editor and producer Julia Dixon Evans.
00:31:45.940 --> 00:31:46.750
Julia , welcome.
00:31:47.080 --> 00:31:47.680
Hi , Jay.
00:31:47.710 --> 00:31:48.490
Thanks for having me.
00:31:48.820 --> 00:31:55.510
So first , we have a piece by New York based artist Tara Donovan at Quint one in Logan Heights.
00:31:55.870 --> 00:31:59.750
You say this is made out of thousands of toothpicks and nothing else.
00:31:59.770 --> 00:32:03.370
I mean , is there glue ? At least there is not.
00:32:03.430 --> 00:32:06.820
It really is thousands of toothpicks and nothing else.
00:32:07.130 --> 00:32:15.940
And one of the things that Tara Donovan is known for is her art that uses small , everyday objects in massive quantities.
00:32:16.210 --> 00:32:26.590
And it kind of calls into question the scale of them and also the identity of them , like she will transform things into something really beautiful or confounding.
00:32:26.950 --> 00:32:35.500
And a lot of that comes from the repetition these mass produced goods like like a toothpick or a pen or a Styrofoam cup.
00:32:35.770 --> 00:32:40.870
They become something something else when they're all arranged next to each other.
00:32:41.380 --> 00:32:48.670
And so this work that just opened at Quint one is a giant perfect cube of toothpicks.
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:56.920
And I want to say it's about waist high , and they really are held together by friction and gravity and no glue.
00:32:57.260 --> 00:32:59.170
It almost looks unreal.
00:32:59.560 --> 00:33:05.850
And from afar , it even looks like a very tidy haystack , just kind of based on the color of the toothpicks.
00:33:06.310 --> 00:33:14.440
And these toothpicks will naturally shed throughout the course of the installation , and the shape may shift just a little bit.
00:33:14.740 --> 00:33:19.030
And because of this , you do have to make a free appointment to see it.
00:33:19.300 --> 00:33:21.130
You just email the gallery and I'll set you up.
00:33:21.430 --> 00:33:28.030
Or if you are at bread and salt visiting any of the other galleries , you'll be able to look through the windows.
00:33:28.030 --> 00:33:35.080
The doors have have these narrow windows in them and you'll be able to see it that way , but they are keeping those doors closed to protect it.
00:33:35.350 --> 00:33:37.720
It'll be on view through April 16th.
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:45.040
Next , we go to the downtown library , where there is a multimedia work by Tijuana artist Charles Glaube.
00:33:45.040 --> 00:33:46.450
It's tell us about this one.
00:33:47.230 --> 00:33:51.790
This is part of the new Occupy Third Space two exhibition.
00:33:52.060 --> 00:33:59.680
It's a group show with work that explores language and the border , particularly based in the 80s and the 90s.
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:03.820
This is on their ninth floor gallery in their Central Library.
00:34:03.850 --> 00:34:06.940
It has some really incredible works , but I love this one.
00:34:07.300 --> 00:34:12.700
I had actually stopped in front of it when the multimedia projection was.
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:18.790
It was in-between loops , so it was kind of paused and it just looked like it was the still flat work.
00:34:19.090 --> 00:34:20.430
It's a series of canvases.
00:34:20.440 --> 00:34:28.120
There's about a dozen or more in different sizes and shapes , and they're all kind of Tetris together into a large rectangle.
00:34:28.450 --> 00:34:34.630
Most of them are painted a pale gray , so it's kind of monochrome with simple black ink drawings on them.
00:34:35.080 --> 00:34:36.670
There's some barbed wire.
00:34:36.700 --> 00:34:40.150
There's a really pensive kind of blank face.
00:34:40.450 --> 00:34:41.680
There's a bare tree.
00:34:42.190 --> 00:34:55.630
And then when the projection kicks in and it kind of startled me , there is probably a few minutes worth of animation , bright lights and then the smaller canvases flashed through a bunch of changes.
00:34:55.960 --> 00:35:09.430
So the border has these tanks moving around it that face cycles through different ages , even different identities , and the tree will cycle through seasons that the piece is called Alla Brava and Charles Glass.
00:35:09.430 --> 00:35:15.340
That's the artist said that that phrase translates into so many different meanings.
00:35:15.670 --> 00:35:22.540
It's like winging it or having a beginning , but no end or the hard way or aggressively.
00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:35.500
And so this image is inspired by that and also border crossings from his youth and in Borrego Springs at the Candle Wood Arts Festival , one of the works by Sharon Burgess.
00:35:35.770 --> 00:35:36.990
I've got your attention.
00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:38.020
Describe this one.
00:35:38.410 --> 00:35:44.950
Yeah , this is sited at the Kelly Ranch Orchards in Borrego Springs among orange groves.
00:35:45.310 --> 00:35:49.270
It's by L.A. based installation artist Sharon Girgis.
00:35:49.270 --> 00:35:56.530
And when she was first invited to participate in this festival , it's called the Candle Wood Arts Festival.
00:35:56.950 --> 00:36:00.640
She became fascinated with the Borrego Springs citrus groves.
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:15.430
How there's such this paradox in the colors and the smells against the landscape of the desert , and also wrapped up in all these issues about water , about the history of labor and agriculture in general in the desert.
00:36:15.700 --> 00:36:16.210
All right.
00:36:16.240 --> 00:36:22.150
Next is another desert inspired work , this one on view at Mesa College Art Gallery.
00:36:22.540 --> 00:36:23.230
Tell us about.
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:25.510
Anna stumps Long Crescent Wrench.
00:36:26.230 --> 00:36:31.360
This one is a literal wrench with a very tiny painting made on the handle.
00:36:31.780 --> 00:36:37.270
And it's part of a dual exhibition between Anna Stamp and Ben Allen off.
00:36:37.510 --> 00:36:54.850
It's called Militarized Desert Life and Death in the Mojave , and they are honing in on those juxtapositions as well , this time of the fierce , wild desert landscape in the Mojave and also the the huge military history and the presence of the military there.
00:36:55.270 --> 00:37:03.610
What a.m. has done as she uses a lot of found metals like waste metals and materials from the desert and painted on them.
00:37:03.820 --> 00:37:10.780
So there's these huge canvases made of corrugated metals , but I was particularly drawn to these miniatures.
00:37:11.260 --> 00:37:17.680
On this one , she painted this tiny , serene desert scene on a rusty iron wrench.
00:37:17.980 --> 00:37:25.210
You can see the mountains on the backdrop there , vividly tinged with with like pinks and purples from the sun.
00:37:25.660 --> 00:37:27.780
Then there's this tiny White House.
00:37:27.790 --> 00:37:30.250
It's surrounded by desert plants.
00:37:30.580 --> 00:37:35.140
The whole thing is so small and it's amazing how she fit it all on the handle.
00:37:35.470 --> 00:37:39.280
It's just this perfect study in the deserts contrasts.
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:43.090
So there's the image , there's the canvas itself and the scale.
00:37:44.080 --> 00:37:47.890
And finally , a mural in downtown San Diego.
00:37:48.100 --> 00:37:50.560
Tell me about this one by Tao Hoon French.
00:37:51.640 --> 00:38:04.270
This was part of last fall's huge mural project by ladies who paint , and they took over a bunch of buildings and walls across the city , including four that are viewable from the same corner.
00:38:04.300 --> 00:38:16.150
This is all on the back of Hotel Ze downtown on the corner of 7th and island and Town French's as this this huge bouquet of marigolds.
00:38:16.450 --> 00:38:26.950
So there's bright reds and oranges and yellows , really big flowers , and they are set in this ornate glass base with intricate details on every single petal.
00:38:27.220 --> 00:38:32.650
They have black squiggles twisting around , kind of zigzagging around each of the flowers.
00:38:32.890 --> 00:38:36.400
And then there's excess paint drips coming out of the bottom of the painting.
00:38:36.730 --> 00:38:42.250
And I also love how up close their crispness of the detail that you saw from afar.
00:38:42.520 --> 00:38:45.430
It kind of softens into this airy haze.
00:38:45.820 --> 00:38:56.380
I'm French , also painted like a big white frame , a backdrop to look almost like a canvas , but then had some of the petals kind of pop off the edges.
00:38:56.620 --> 00:38:59.980
And it's that makes it almost like an optical illusion.
00:39:00.340 --> 00:39:04.870
And yeah , there are three other works there from three other women muralists.
00:39:05.110 --> 00:39:10.510
There's A. Sarah Tate and Lindsey Sacar , so it's definitely worth a detour.
00:39:11.230 --> 00:39:16.840
You can find pictures of all these works and details on how to see them for yourself on our website.
00:39:16.870 --> 00:39:18.040
KPBS Talk.
00:39:18.460 --> 00:39:22.630
I've been speaking with KPBS Arts editor and producer Julia Dixon Evans.
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:23.950
Julia , thank you.
00:39:24.730 --> 00:39:25.990
Thank you for having me , Jade.
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:50.970
A new podcast , $E , The Ballad of Cellino Sanchez , follows the remarkable story of a Mexican singer whose career was cut short at its peak when he was murdered in the early 1990s.
00:39:51.210 --> 00:39:55.830
Both Sanchez and the creators of the podcast have deep roots in Southern California.
00:39:56.130 --> 00:40:08.410
KQED's Blanca Torres tells us more about Sanchez and why his story still resonates three decades later in the 1980s.
00:40:08.430 --> 00:40:14.370
A young Cellino Sanchez was just another Mexican immigrant hustling to survive in Southern California.
00:40:14.790 --> 00:40:21.070
On weekends , he could be found selling tapes of his music at swap meets or singing at backyard quinceaneras.
00:40:21.450 --> 00:40:26.100
Clad in his signature western wear and cowboy hat tilted to one side.
00:40:28.340 --> 00:40:44.030
Other mother on it , but also in a few years , he became a Best-Selling singer whose music flowed from California to Mexico , mesmerizing fans with narcocorridos songs that told stories about outlaws and drug traffickers.
00:40:44.390 --> 00:40:51.570
This is a type of ballad that reminds you of what your abilities listen to or what your parents or your things and boss listen to.
00:40:51.690 --> 00:41:01.580
Cathedral Atrios is an assistant professor at UC Berkeley's Graduate School of Education , who has researched how students of Mexican descent relate to corridos.
00:41:01.850 --> 00:41:03.620
It is a form of literacy.
00:41:03.950 --> 00:41:06.170
It's a form of reading and writing.
00:41:06.380 --> 00:41:09.950
It's through corridos that a lot of young people learn.
00:41:10.430 --> 00:41:15.080
Allegory hyperbole , says similes metaphors.
00:41:15.260 --> 00:41:21.740
Sanchez was only 31 when he was found shot to death after a concert in his home state of Sinaloa.
00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:32.450
Thirty years later , his songs have hundreds of millions of streams and continue to bump from home stereos at parties and on radio stations throughout California.
00:41:32.660 --> 00:41:36.710
I've been trying to tell this story professionally in mainstream media for like 10 years.
00:41:36.980 --> 00:41:39.320
Eric Galindo is co-host of Idol.
00:41:39.680 --> 00:41:47.540
He wanted to tell Sanchez a story in a way that would appeal to other Mexican-Americans like himself who felt seen in his music.
00:41:47.750 --> 00:41:54.380
I think it was the idea that you're in this country and you don't feel like you belong.
00:41:54.480 --> 00:42:03.500
And here's a guy who definitely does not sound like he belongs on stage and he's doing it anyway , and he's doing it with passion and with gusto.
00:42:04.640 --> 00:42:13.400
That certainly resonates with me , you know ? Well , fans still celebrate Sanchez , critics say he normalized machismo and narco culture.
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:24.380
But George Arora , an expert on Mexican music who teaches at Cal State Fullerton , said Sanchez is part of a long line of corridos singers attempting to capture real life stories.
00:42:24.560 --> 00:42:37.580
They're singing about what's going on in Mexico , and you cannot blame that on the corridos like the narco war , the drugs all that came first , and the music is just a reflection of what's happening in Iraq.
00:42:37.580 --> 00:42:43.190
Said that the abrupt end to Sanchez's career plays a role in how he and his music are remembered.
00:42:43.460 --> 00:42:55.100
The reason he has this big appeal is one of the big reasons why I like Tupac will never die , while Biggie will also never die because they sort of became like like martyrs in their music.
00:42:55.110 --> 00:43:00.650
You know , they died at the peak of their career singing their music because of their music.
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:04.280
The Idol production team commissioned a new corrido about Sanchez.
00:43:04.730 --> 00:43:08.660
The verses include the refrain Not even the bullets could kill him.
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:10.580
His legacy lives on here.
00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:14.080
Just like on the other side , some folks.
00:43:15.500 --> 00:43:19.700
Apply for the California report.
00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:20.900
I'm Blanca attorney.
00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:24.250

UC San Diego’s school of Global Policy and Strategy professor Stephan Haggard previews a virtual forum being held Monday night about the ongoing crisis in Ukraine. ,Next, some scientists believe the ocean is often overlooked when evaluating the effects of climate change and its potential to offer solutions. Margaret Leinen, Director of Scripps Institution of Oceanography at UC San Diego talks about the investment required to make the ocean more transparent to researchers. Then, with San Diego becoming the most unaffordable city in the United States, some San Diegans are heading south of the border in search of a lower cost of living. What does that mean for the Tijuanense? Next, from a citrus grove to the side of a building or in a gallery KPBS Arts producer and editor Julia Dixon Evans joins us to talk about five works of visual art you can see in San Diego County during the month of March. Finally, Chalino Sanchez was a Mexican singer whose career was cut short at his peak when he was murdered in the early 1990s. A new podcast looks at the life of Sanchez, who has deep ties to Southern California, and why his legendary story still resonates decades after his death.