S1: Welcome in San Diego , it's Jade Hindman. On today's show , we're talking about the efforts to revitalize San Diego's Chinatown , to preserve heritage. This is KPBS Midday Edition. Connecting our communities through conversation. Our celebration and exploration of AAPI Heritage Month takes us to San Diego's Chinese community , which has a long history tracing back to the 1850s. In fact , San Diego once had a bustling Chinatown. That area is now the Asian Pacific Thematic Historic District in downtown. But my next guest is working to bring greater awareness to the history of the Chinatown that once existed there. Jacinta Wong is the former executive director of the San Diego Chinese Historical Museum. Jacinta , it's great to have you back on the show.
S2: Thanks for having me.
S1: So before we talk about the district , let's talk about the initial waves of Chinese migration into San Diego.
S2: And there were initial waves of Chinese that came due to circum circumstances , whether it be famine , war , strife from southern China as early as the mid 1800s. Then in 1848 , obviously most people are familiar with the gold rush. And , um , you know , in 1849 there were about 300 Chinese that were that came to the United , to the States or to North America. And by 1852 , there were over 20,000 thousand that had arrived to these shores. And so they came looking for a better life , looking for opportunities. And then in 1865 , the transcontinental railroad work began , and they often found work there. And so that's kind of how the trains started coming to the California area. Right ? They landed in what areas ? Like San Francisco. And so they were here. And , uh , and as time passed , you know , whether they , you know , failed out of the the gold rush due to , you know , racism or or just lack of gold or , um , the transcontinental railroad was completed. They started moving south. So what they realized is that the redwood trees of California made for wonderful junks , which were , um , the boats that they were used to using when they were in China , in southern , the southern China , many of them were fishermen or farmers. Right. And , um , what ? They realized that the coast of California was teeming with , you know , fish and abalone , which was a huge delicacy in Chinese cuisine. And so they came down here in search of that. And they were good at it. And so they they made their life fishing for these , you know , this delicacy and being able to transport it and send it back to China. So they were able to do that.
S1:
S2: Oh.
S1: Oh.
S2: So it's like conch or. Yeah. And I've heard tales from people who've grown up here in San Diego that up until , like the 1960s , you could just go to the beach and literally just pick up an abalone to eat like it's crazy. But yeah , so they came here and , you know , at that time when in the they started doing the southern , the California Southern Railroad project. And so they , they did bring a lot of Chinese down. Due to their work with the transcontinental railroad , and they hired them here also as well for their expertise in railroad building. So there are a number of factors that brought the Chinese down to San Diego. And , you know , if you can imagine , you know , mid 1800s , there were , I don't know , maybe 3000 people living in San Diego at the time. Several hundred of them were Chinese , you know , brought down by the company. Um , and they were just looking for a way to sustain themselves and make a life here in this country. Wow.
S1: Wow.
S2: Right ? And part of that was racism. Um , they didn't want the Chinese living in different areas. So they there weren't a lot of people who wanted to live in that area. It was kind of the area known as the Stinky District back in the day. So the red light district , so brothels and drugs and prostitution and all that kind of good stuff. And so they , they forced them to live in this area. However , what they didn't realize is they then fostered a sense of community , right ? Where you found people who spoke the same language , who followed the same traditions , who held the same beliefs , all living together and found a way to support one another. They were blocks off of the harbor at that time. So Third Avenue was the was where the harbor was. And , you know , you had no convention center back then. So you the where the convention center sat was really a fishing village. And so the Chinese were able to do their fishing , they were able to live in that area , you know , it wasn't the best area , but they were together. And then there was this whole push with the missions to evangelize the Chinese. And so the churches gathered , you know , the Chinese there , and they offered to teach them English and offered to teach them how to live in , in , in this country. And so they were able to gather together and , and learn how to live here.
S1:
S2: You're talking about only males being allowed into this country , right ? So a bunch of , you know , Chinese men , they have no family. They have no support being able to gather together in a unified kind of way to learn English and learn how to survive here. I think it was well received , and the Chinese were open to evangelization at the time. And so , um , yeah , it worked out well.
S1:
S2: I think they were just looking for a survival at that point , you know , and trying to figure out how to to survive and how to send money back home or bring over their family for more opportunities. Like I said , there was war. There was famine in China. So they were just looking for chances.
S1: Yeah , well , we actually have a clip from Amy Lee. She's a docent at the San Diego Chinese Historical Museum. And in fact , she actually grew up in San Diego's Chinatown during the 40s and 50s , where there were markets and restaurants and Chinese language schools. Take a listen.
S3: When I went into Chinatown , I became somebody completely different than , say , I was in school. And it was interesting because I go to my regular American school , and twice a week I'd get on a bus to go down to this school. And so it was it was completely different atmosphere. And , um , personally , I think it kind of made me sort of proud because I had this different culture that some of the other people didn't have. Wow.
S1: Wow. It was such a hub for culture in an area that was bustling. But Jacinta , you know , San Diego's Chinatown , it sort of dissolved over the next few decades.
S2: And then you had the inability of folks to be able to survive. Right. And so there were a couple of different factors. Um , there were things such as the Scotts Act. Right. So the Chinese fishing industry was thriving and others weren't as happy to see the Chinese thrive like that. And so , um , the Scotts act basically said , if you go more than three nautical miles offshore , you can't come home. So , you know , that killed the Chinese fishing industry , right ? And so the Chinese were trying to look for other ways to survive. They often became house boys , which is often portrayed in the movies. Cooks , you know , um , they were very influential and , well , not influential , but they were very involved in the building of the hotel del Coronado. They were really good with the land , like , so they were involved in , like , the Sweetwater Dam building , the irrigation system that San Diego has. So they found found work outside of the area. And so the Chinese dispersed once the Chinese Exclusion Act was lifted. They look for opportunities. And so they did disperse to other , other parts of San Diego. And , you know , because they weren't able to own land there , they were able to spread out.
S1: And in telling this history , you're referring to just the men. And earlier you mentioned that. Tell me about the women and why they weren't as sure as well.
S2: Women were not really allowed to migrate to the United States. There was a lot of complaints , unfairly so , I think. But , you know , oftentimes the females that were brought here were enslaved. And so they were they worked as prostitutes , right ? They were seen as the evil , you know , doe eyed kind of temptress. And so they were often unwelcomed. Um , it was very , very difficult for any man to get his wife in. It would cost him a lot of money. They would be , you know , stuck in Angel Island for months , right ? Answering questions , proving that they were actually married. It was just very , very difficult to get women into the United States until closer to the mid 1900s. Mhm.
S1: Mhm. That's a big stigma. Yes. In your experience , how can having , you know , a central community hub like Chinatown helped shape one's understanding of identity and history.
S2: I think that having a centralized Chinatown has often been seen as a way for the Chinese to be able to celebrate and incorporate their cultures and share it with folks who are of like mind. And so , as we talked about in January , having our Chinese New Year Festival , right , is one way for the community to come together to celebrate a shared narrative. But , you know , unfortunately , San Diego doesn't have that. We are very lucky that , you know , things have changed to the point where we do have things at least , like the convoy district , right , where we have the Asian business district. While it's not a centralized Chinatown. You know , we want to talk about how Chinatown moved from the Asian Pacific Thematic Historic District to the convoy area , beginning with , you know , merchandisers. There was a Chinese store by the name of Wuji Chan Kim Wing , and they moved to the convoy area as some of the first businesses there , and so they help drive some of that traffic to the convoy area and help establish it. But yeah , San Diego doesn't have the Chinatown. I'm from Chicago. We have a huge Chinatown. San Francisco does , too , but I think it's just different waves of populations and the timing of how the Chinese arrived to those , you know , areas that really shape those narratives. Mhm.
S1: Mhm. And city Council actually approved a master plan for the creation of the Asian Pacific Thematic Historic District. And that was back in in 1987.
S2: There were , you know , the Filipinos and the Japanese and even African Americans who all were forced to live in those areas back in those days. And they , you know , were able to interact and live together in peace and harmony. And so there were all these organizations there. I think , you know , I'm very familiar with the narrative of Council member Tom Ham , who was , you know , very influential in , you know , back then in helping develop these narratives. But there were also , you know , members from the Japanese community , the Filipino community. But Peggy , who is who helped build the convoy , Signe helped do the design for that master plan as well. And so there was an intention , I think , from the city to kind of recognize the history of the San Diego that once was. And so they they did do that master plan in the 1980s , however , due to Resources and funding and administration changes and things like that. The money didn't happen , and so there are very few nods to the AfD that still exist. We have the street lamps , for example , on Third Avenue that are Asian style street lamps that are supposed to designate that area which have slowly been eroding , which is one of the projects that I'm really passionate about , making sure it doesn't happen , that they don't disappear. You know , you've got the sidewalks that have the multicolored tiles. We just recently installed a new mural on the intersection of Third Avenue and J Street , which is absolutely beautiful. Um , that was done in cooperation with some local Asian artists and downtown San Diego Partnership , and KBA and the museum all got involved in trying to make sure that this was able to be done so that we can recognize the area , because the nods to the district are so subtle that most people don't even even recognize it.
S1: Well , and that's what I was going to ask. I mean , you know , a lot of work goes into preserving the culture into that area.
S2: Um , unless they interacted with that area before the 1970s , they probably don't even know exists. Mm.
S1: Mm. Well , here's Amy Lee again on preserving this history of San Diego's Chinatown as a docent and participating in the museum's Oral histories project in 2019.
S3: Somewhere they want to make sure that people know there was really a Chinatown down there , and there was really real people that were there and really lived and and survived for quite a few years. And , you know , for all different for many different reasons. They left the area and they just don't want us to forget all this. I think that's the main , the main thing that I feel anyway , that's why I'm doing it.
S1: You know , it's so important to preserve that history and it's , you know , for so many reasons. Can you talk a bit more about that ? Sure.
S2: Absolutely. I think that San Diego , oftentimes , you know , depends on whose voice is being heard. Right. And they , they capture , you know , as pieces of San Diego's history. I mean , San Diego's are old. It has been around for a long time. Right , but has only recently , you know , really become a hub that it is. And so I think that there's many people who , for lack of power or lack of awareness , there's a lot of history that that's lost. Um , you know , whether it's , you know , the Harlem of the West that used to exist here , right ? Or the Chinatown or the Filipino town , like it's there. There's just so much history that is not captured in , you know , in San Diego history. I know the San Diego History History Center has a lot of information , but not as much as it could have. And so , you know , we want to figure out how do we make sure that these histories don't get lost to the ages. Mhm.
S1: Mhm. And you know , that makes me think of , you know , this moment in time where , you know , from the highest office in the country , there's almost an anti history agenda. Has it made it more difficult for you to preserve this history.
S2: I think obviously funding has a lot to do with it. You know I we're very , very grateful that there are , you know , nonprofits out here like San Diego Foundation and , you know , the previous foundation out here who are here to help us with those kinds of things. But we really , really want to make sure that the people who were involved in these things earlier on are starting to age out , right. Lots and lots of history has been already decimated. And so we want to make sure that whatever we can find , whatever we can engage with , that we recognize it and can build upon it so that it doesn't go away forever. Right.
S1: Right. Well , last time you were on the show , you talked about , you know , how you feel like many AAPI communities are more spread out across San Diego.
S2: I mean , we're probably about 10% of that 17%. Um , but we have such a strong history with the Filipinos and the Japanese , we want to be able to bring them together. So I am also , you know , working in conjunction with the San Diego API coalition to bring together the networks of all of the different AAPI communities and to make sure that we're sharing these histories and these narratives with the young folks. Right , and getting them engaged , um , community gathering. Um , you know , we're really excited about bringing folks together to have these conversations.
S1:
S2: That many of the you know , because I'm second generation , right. The third and fourth generations are much less connected to their Chinese roots , right ? And their traditions. And so , you know , being able to share my passion with them about the long standing history here , I'm very proud of being able to kind of reignite some of that passion and bringing together folks , because I think that , you know , it's things that they don't think about , right ? They've taken it for granted that we just don't have a Chinatown. And that's just how it works. And I'm like , no , that's not how it has to be. We can we do have this little piece of this puzzle and it's recognized by the city. We should be fighting for this , fighting to keep it alive.
S1: Well , the work has got to be gratifying when you put it like that , you know , and you mentioned you grew up in Chicago , your second generation.
S2: Like I said , we have a vibrant Chinatown community , and my mom was central to really helping make that thrive in the 70s 80s 90s. She was the founder of a nonprofit social service agency called the Chinese American Service League , which brought forth social services to Chinese Americans for the first time ever in the Midwest. And it's now one of the largest social service agencies for Asians , I think , in , you know , the area. But she was also influential internationally. Right. So I know that the senior housing that the CCP does here , Senior Gardens , was based off of a senior housing that my mom did in Chicago. And so , you know , being able and to grow up in that community and to see how the work of a few people who are , you know , passionate about whatever it is that they're doing can make a difference. Has really been my , you know , my goal , my. My guiding star.
S1: So you got it. Honest.
S2: I sure did.
S1: Well , we've talked about your efforts to preserve the district and this history at large.
S2: I think that the goal would be to see how we can get it more widely recognized , how we can make it more vibrant , how we can make downtown more vibrant. You know , I think that , um , the different districts are kind of siloed. And I think we could work together like we're so much more powerful working together. Right. It's not , you know , the Chinese versus the Japanese versus the Filipino versus the African American African-American versus Gaslamp versus Marina , right ? Like , we all need to work together to make San Diego the best city it could be.
S1: I've been speaking with Jacinta Wong , former executive director at the San Diego Chinese Historical Museum. Jacinta , it's always a pleasure to speak with you. Thanks for joining us. Absolutely.
S2: Absolutely. My pleasure.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
