New KPBS Podcast, 'Device' Examines How Literature Uses Science

Speaker 1: 00:00 It is a monthly book discussion with a science based twist. KPBS his new podcast called device explores novels that you science to drive a stories action and dissects what is called the plot device for scientific plausibility. Joining me is the host of device, Emily t Griffiths. Emily, welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. So explained to me what is a plot device? A plot device is something that the author puts into a novel to drive the action of the plot, to move his, his or her characters forward. Um, and sometimes it really works and sometimes it makes you laugh. Your background is in science. You're a biologist. Tell me how this, this podcast project came to be. What inspired it for you? Um, I'm a wildlife biologist by training. Uh, and I have spent a lot of time in remote locations with not much to do but read. Speaker 1: 00:54 And so you know when you're surrounded by other scientists, when you're on a field site and you're all reading the same books because there's a limited library you get to talking about like well this one's silly because of this and like, Oh did you read this one? The author explained it really well and I think at some point something just triggered it just like, you know what, this is a really interesting conversation and it's a really great way to talk about science and also talk about art and how there may be more closely related than we thought. Can you give me an example of a scientific plot device that was just outrageous? I think a lot of people are familiar with both the film and the book the Martian and the thing that actually strands that astronaut on Mars could never happen on Mars. Like the winds are simply just not strong enough. Speaker 1: 01:38 And that's kind of a well picked apart aspect of that book. And that book is famous though cause the rest of the book is heavily researched and it does a very good job of actually explaining science. Do you have an example of a plot device that maybe would seem totally outrageous but that might actually be possible? Actually yet, in our third episode we discussed the book a life as we knew it with doctor Lisa will and professors sharing haggard. And we find that that uh, the author Susan Beth Pfeffer, uh, actually does a very, very good job of describing what would happen to the earth if a meteor push the moon closer to the earth. So that would affect our tides. It effect volcanic activity, earthquakes. And can you explain to me how these plot devices shape the public's perception of science? Well, in some cases they can cause fear. Speaker 1: 02:28 So in the case of, uh, the book of Jaws by Peter Benchley, which is a book that we tackle in the series as well as the Poisonwood Bible, which is another book that we tackle, both of those novels have exaggerated how certain animals behave with jaws, the shark obviously, and with the poisonwood Bible, there's a hoard of ants. And both of these novels have animals behaving in ways that they would never behave in real life. And it creates this fear. And when you have fear, that's really, really hard for public to understand why conservation matters. Like why shark conservation matters, why insect conservation matters, because they're gross, they're icky, they're like, but they're important. And it's really important that we, we appreciate that. And we have an excerpt from the podcast, set it up for us in this excerpt. I have just finished speaking with Alex Tardy, uh, the national weather service who is popular here at KPBS and he is talking about the climate action proposals. San Diego 2050 is calling, um, where it talks about the different things that San Diego needs to do to protect our city from climate change. And he kind of says at the end of it like, I don't know all the answers because no one really knows the answers. I've been speaking with Emily t Griffiths, host of the new KPBS podcast device. And here's an excerpt from the first episode cats climate. Speaker 2: 03:47 This of course, begs the question, who has the answers? Now, no good scientist is going to clean that. They have all of the answers, especially on something as universal as climate change, but we have some of the top researchers in the world in our backyard. The Scripps Institution of Oceanography has been at the forefront of global climate change research since Charles Keeling began measurements of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere in 1958 that's five years before cat's cradle was published. Researchers from scripts are heavily featured in the 2050 report. We could talk to one of them, but since the future is calling, let's talk to the future. Speaker 3: 04:28 All right. My name is [inaudible] Nachi, a joke who I am currently a fourth year phd candidate at Scripps Institution of Oceanography. Speaker 2: 04:35 I am Elizabeth Drank drunkard. Liz, I'm a postdoc at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography Speaker 4: 04:42 and I am Danielle for Jenny [inaudible] and I'm a third year phd students. Also it's grapes. Speaker 3: 04:47 These researchers are tackling just one aspect of the global climate problem. My research focuses on effects that biomass burning and Africa has onto west African monsoon. Speaker 2: 04:59 And I am studying the impact of climate change on generally speaking, California fisheries. Speaker 4: 05:05 And I'm studying those is low variations in the ocean Speaker 3: 05:09 and they're looking towards the future because as they point out, this is a global issue. Speaker 2: 05:15 No city is acting in a vacuum. So San Diego can do this and that's fantastic. But if they're the only city in America that makes these changes, it won't have really significant impact on the global climate. And that's really still going to affect the large scale patterns of weather and what we see here. So, um, I'm very proud of the efforts that are going to it, but alone, it's not going to make a real difference. Speaker 3: 05:40 Of course, that doesn't mean it's for nothing. Speaker 4: 05:43 Uh, I think that even if one city, but by itself is not enough to solve the problem, it's good as an example for the others. Right. And although the problem is Globo, yes, but we have to act. Look, it's easy. You cannot think something that's global if it's not applicable. You have to have small goals and I think that's what San Diego is doing now. Speaker 3: 06:07 For me, it's, it's always hard to say whether it's enough. What I do agree in this document is that these businesses are doing their best efforts to cut down seal to uh, energy use. And I think that's more as a very, very, very practical. Speaker 2: 06:21 I think what we really struggle with is that you have to generate this sense of importance. You have to make people care. And it's hard in this world today because there's so much on social media, it's so loud. There's so much noise, there's so many stories that are just pull at your heartstrings. So it's trying to direct all of those emotions to do something productive. Perhaps. Unsurprisingly, this is also a point that Vonnegut in cat's cradle 55 years ago when Jonah is talking to doctor [inaudible], former colleague, Dr Breed scientists don't always do the best job at explaining science. Speaker 4: 07:01 There is a really interesting conversation between, I think this secretary of Dr Breed, right? Yeah. Where she, she mentioned something on those lines that you think too much or I don't understand what you, what you think or what to say and it's really interesting the way she as a non scientist trying to explain that the scientists, they cannot explain what they do Speaker 2: 07:28 as second what Danny said, that section with doctor breed. He goes on to say that if we can't as scientist explain our science to an eight year old, then we are charlatans. I mean we really have no business doing what we're doing. Speaker 5: 07:44 Mm. Speaker 1: 07:49 Cat's cradle doesn't just offer pessimisms though and how we are sewing our own tragic fate. Right before ice nine covers the earth during a military display celebrating America's global victories in San Lorenzo. The U s ambassador gives us sobering speech. Speaker 6: 08:07 I'm about to do a very odd ambassadorial thing. I'm about to tell you what I really feel. Speaker 1: 08:14 He asks those gathered if the loss of soldiers during war who are no older than children is really an appropriate justification for such a thrilling air display. Speaker 6: 08:25 The answer is yes. On one condition. That's we the celebrates our working honestly and tirelessly to reduce the stupidities and viciousness I've ourselves and of all, man. Hi. Speaker 1: 08:43 I suggest that, well, science has certainly known sin. Modern Day scientists are not oblivious to that. I mean, listen to these guys, they are so engaged. They are examining things from Speaker 3: 08:56 every angle that you're thinking about. Not only the science but the politics. And if you start applying taxes or these different regulations, if people start seeing them as a burden in the moment, um, then a politician doesn't have much chance of sticking around, they won't be reelected. And the social ramifications, I can talk to leaders about an in varying countries about coming together and creating a cohesive plan for mitigating climate change because it's not fair that you feel the affects of what a country is doing thousands of miles away. If you're a small island country per se, you're feeling to sea level rise done by big polluters in, you're definitely not one of them. So it's the same story in different places. You can find the device podcast@kpbs.org or your favorite podcast APP.