S1: On. Everybody's doing it with Miss Lolly. It's the last show of the season and we are talking about dating because you.
S2: Got to like talk chit chat back and forth with someone and see if they're , you know , worthwhile. And I don't know what is even worthwhile , you know , because it's just awkward.
S1: This week on Everybody's doing it with Miss Lolly. This podcast is about sex. There will be language not suitable for all ears , so be advised. But.
S1: Welcome to our last episode of our very first season. I've learned something from every person I talked with on this show , and I really hope you did , too. There's a long list of topics to cover and people to chat with , so finding the right subject to wrap up the season was a real challenge for me. Ultimately , the one thing I felt this season was missing was a show on dating. Yeah , dating. That tricky , complicated , exciting thing that people do when they're looking to connect with others. Dating means different things for different people , and the goal seems to shift and change depending on where you are in your life. For the 28 year old who cuts my hair. It's fun to date lots of people at the same time. For my friend Mark.
S4: I dated for a while , but then I was like , I'm getting older and what do I have to offer ? Because women want in a relationship either security or some sort of thing , maybe children or something if they're younger. I'm already past that phase. There's a bunch of different needs and wants from everybody. Once you start getting older. I've already set up all the borders around me. I don't go out , you know , I don't go like looking for I don't go on social media , like through my daily goings on and living. If I meet somebody that I'm attracted to who is mentally stimulating , whatever , then that would be the the way I'd want to meet some , not some artificial way.
S1: On this episode of Everybody's Doing It with Miss Lolly , I will be talking about dating with two friends who have very different perspectives. And I have an interesting conversation with a dating coach who has a systemic view on love , connection and heartbreak. So stay with us. Beautiful's for the Dating episode. My friend Amanda is the owner of a busy pottery studio in City Heights. She and I met at UCSD when I was a psych major , and she was studying math and history of science right out of school. She knew she didn't want to teach or do anything that had to do with her major. So she leaned into her creative passion , and to my surprise , she opened up a pottery studio. This , seemingly out of left field endeavor proved to me that she can do anything she puts her mind to. Amanda is an industrious , intelligent lady and my number one pick for my zombie apocalypse team. And the general consensus amongst those who know her is that she is a unique , attractive and extremely likable person. So why in the world is dating so hard for her ? Are you dating ? No.
S2: I don't know. It's been , like , probably a couple of years , actually. Why is that really ? The only place to date is kind of the Internet. And. And that stuff gets old.
S1: Yeah , No , I totally agree.
S2: You know , there's good things about both of them. Tinder , I think , is just like a wider span of people. It's just like everyone knows about Tinder. Like if you ask like , what's the dating app ? Like , that's Tinder. OkCupid was interesting because people write more about themselves. But then do I have to , like , memorize this whole thing ? And then if I ask them a question and that they already mentioned in their profile , are they going to like , you know , be like , Yo , I already wrote that down , you know , and and same thing , you know , for , for mine. Like I don't expect you to memorize everything , but like , did you read it ? Did you not read it. And so it's either it's like weirder expectations.
S1: I think it's very weird.
S1: You know , like mannerisms speak to somebody's personality. So when you see somebody out in public and out in person , you get a lot of information from that that's not getting online.
S2: Yeah , Yeah. It's like , what do you and don't you put on the profile ? And that's like the hard part because I don't know , partially , I kind of want to know the things and then partially I don't want to say all the things , but then I do kind of want to like cut through some of like just like the chit chat and crap and stuff.
S1: It's a lot of work. It's like you got to dedicate time to it.
S2: No , it is because you got to like talk chit chat back and forth with someone and see if they're , you know , worthwhile. And I don't know what is even worthwhile , you know , because it's just awkward , especially if you're just texting back and forth.
S1: Do you know what you're looking for or. Wait , you're not really looking for anything , are you ? Right now ? No.
S5: You just completely.
S1: You just completely gave up.
S2: I don't know if give up is a word , but like my friend asked me that day , she's like , so are you dating at all ? And I was like , no. If I was better at like casually dating , it would be one thing. Just kind of like if I actually enjoyed going out and meeting someone new and having a date with them. But that sounds incredibly anxiety provoking and I don't really have the time , so I'm not really looking just to kind of dip my toe in the water here and there. So it's just easier if I don't date.
S1: I feel like having the must have list and keeping it pretty short and having the deal breaker list and keeping that also pretty short. Um , that works for me. It made me have to realize what my actual deal breakers were.
S2: Yeah , I guess for me that's sometimes not even the easiest thing. Just like defining like a deal breaker. You know , the last round of dating I did , I had some ideas of what my deal breakers were , and then I broke my deal breakers. Anyways , I bent them. So why ? There's just not that many people out there. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not a I swipe left a lot. Yeah.
S2: I mean , I don't know. It just takes me a second to just be like , ooh you know , and then. And then swipe left. I'm like , He's too cute. Goodbye. You know , he looks probably cute to other people , so that he knows he's cute. So then therefore he knows , like , I don't know.
S1: You're assuming something about his personality based on the fact that he is physically attractive. Yeah. I mean , my guys do that to girls all the time , you know , like , Oh , she's hot. She must be. She must be dumb. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. That's why I don't get a lot of swipes either.
S1: It's annoying. You're making a huge judgment call on somebody based on a picture. And a picture is not reality.
S2: In some ways , it is your manufactured reality of what you're trying to show to a potential suitor or date. Definitely. Like you make the choice over. Like what is the first picture that people see ? That's true.
S2: And so I was like , Well , if I met somebody that I was actually kind of interested in what can I carve in my life for them ? And the answer was like , not much. So I feel like if I met the perfect person tomorrow , I don't know. Things would have to change pretty drastically in my life.
S1: I experienced that too. When I'm single , I set up my life so well when I'm single to be single , you know ? So there's no real room for anybody either. Yeah , you have to , like , make the decision to say , Hey , my life is set up too. Well , you know , like , if I want a relationship that I have to maybe set my life up to be in a relationship. Yeah. Whatever that looks like.
S2: And sometimes , like , you're just never ready and it just kind of happens. And then sometimes people are just planners and they do it.
S1: I don't enjoy it either. I'm not I'm not into like , Hey , I went on seven dates this week trying to find somebody. I have a friend. She was like , I want a real relationship. I don't have time. She looked at it more like a mission. It was , you know , so she did she she was like , you have to go on five dates a week for six months , and then you'll find the person that you're supposed to be with. And I'm like , That's the most exhausting thing I've ever heard. I don't think I could do that.
S2: No , but I mean , it is like a numbers game. I mean , you go on days with that many people and like , you were bound to find , you know , someone who works out pretty good , I would imagine.
S1: They've been together for almost ten years and they're married. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah , she it was it was a numbers game.
S2: I feel like. I feel like there's , there's couples that get together , like , either like out of high school or they went to college together. And then then they kind of stay together for a long time and they sort of grow , you know , with each other and kind of go through these all these things in their 20s and 30s and stuff , and they just do it together. And then the people that don't do that are kind of just out exploring the world and getting their heart broken a million times. And then by the time like those two people get together , I feel like we're just kind of two broken people just trying to like , pick up the pieces. And I don't know. I mean , it gets more confusing because I'm just like , I don't want to get my heart broken again. Goodbye.
S1: All kinds of people struggle with undervaluing themselves , not knowing what they are looking for , and carrying heavy trauma and baggage from not only previous relationships , but from society and families that raise them as well. With all of this working against hopes for romance , what can we do to make the search for intimacy , sex and connection more fruitful relationship and heartbreak ? Coach Jayasuriya has some deep ideas on the subject. My name is Joe Sully.
S6: And I'm a relationship educator and coach. I also provide burnout recovery services for multiple marginalized women and men. I also work with men of color.
S1: Heartbreak , Recovery. That's really interesting.
S6: And I find that even when I'm working the systems , multiple systems of multiple intersecting oppressions and I find that a lot of times , even when I'm , let's say , working with a client who is single and they're dating , a lot of the times will come up as past heartbreak , which is influencing present day choices and love. And so heartbreak. Recovery is a term I use because it goes so much beyond the breakup and divorce recovery piece , which is also something I work extensively on.
S1: I see you have a lot of different services on your website.
S6: That pre dating phase where you're not actively dating to when you're actively dating to when you're in that early relationship stage and setting those anti patriarchal relationship agreements , navigating the conflicts that can come up and intimacy deepens and a relationship progresses. And perhaps you're thinking about habitation , you're thinking about financial resource distribution and all of that through to longer term relationships , you know , and maintaining that commitment through to the part about entering a piece of our relationships , which many of us unfortunately will , where we're thinking , shall I stay or go ? And then of course , there's a breakup and divorce recovery piece that I support folks with doing a lot of my work with my single folks , even my poly folks who maybe partnered is really focusing on healing our core intimacy , wounding like seeing how disruptions in our in our relationship with ourselves through shame , you know , feelings of unworthiness , lack of belonging and also evaluate for trustworthiness and others and how that shows up in dating. So we are able to date more safely and more securely , get very clear with folks and help folks get very clear on compatibility metrics or what exactly to look for in a partner such as shared values to purpose and shared goals , and also seeing compatibility as an ongoing process , you know , based on how we actually treat each other , how we work through conflict , how we emotionally connect with each other and turn towards each other and offer curiosity and compassion and openness to one another. And so I see the dating piece as , as a relational skill in itself , you know , like the piece about emotional attunement , about curiosity and , you know , leaning into each other and getting one another's life stories , you know , and not seeing one another is as though we were participating in an interview and trying to kind of fill a spot and and just humanizing the process a little bit more. But my dating coaching , my emphasis also tends to be on the long term relationship success of , you know , those foundations. Because I feel like culturally there's a lot of emphasis simply on like finding or attracting the right partner. My message is that love and relationships are so much more than simply attraction , but it is such a cool , creative , collaborative , intentional process.
S1: You were talking about humanizing the process and making it more intimate. How do you feel about dating apps ? That's the way that a lot of people find people to date and then , you know , those people to kind of try on to see if you're going to work or not.
S6: I feel like dating apps are actually very optional because surprisingly , when I was doing a little bit of research on how many of us are finding , you know , long term partnerships through dating apps and the pieces that I read , the articles that the number was actually less than 30%. Dating apps can be a useful tool , provided we are very clear on our values and priorities and that we are capacitated and supported to hold on to. You know , our boundaries is , as you may know , there is a lot of fatphobia , a lot of queer phobia , a lot of racism is extremely pervasive in the dating app. Space kind of exemplifies and really does give us a snapshot into the world we are living in. But I do see the dating apps and those algorithms could be made much more anti oppressive. You know where they're able. To receive some feedback on like how to craft their profiles in a way that clarifies their values to such a degree that you're actually very strategically and intentionally repelling people whose values are not aligned with yours.
S6: And my advice tends to be the opposite that be political and be firm and be upfront about your political values , about your social values , about the type of folks that you're interested in dating. And also on those first dates that I feel like are a very critical place where we can share and vulnerability and really get to know where the other is coming from as well. Be very authentic about your stance and your position on things of significance to you instead of kind of leaving that off the table or like , Oh , this is too intense. Let the conversation flow naturally and don't avoid , you know , subjects like politics.
S1: It sounds like you're saying , you know , nope , just be with 100% you and realize that you're also the one choosing. It's not just I hope this person chooses me , but I'm also choosing.
S5: You're absolutely right.
S6: One of the things I tell my clients in community is that a date is not an audition. This is like a mutual assessment process between equals. And so rejection and acceptance are both a part of the framework and process. It's a very healthy , natural part of dating for folks to determine an incompatibility and say , you know , I'm not into it or this is not for me.
S6: There's no rush , you know , And if you are at that point of exhaustion , it is completely okay to take several weeks off , three months off and just really take care of yourself , reconnect yourself that when we are able to we're interested in exploring dating again , that we are doing it from a place more rested. We are clearer on what it is that we are looking for and we're moving into the process with perhaps a little more rejection resilience. So we take it a little less personally and just do it at a pace that works for our body , our lifestyle , you know , our health status. Some of us are chronically ill , disabled , and we may have limited energy , limited spoons. So really taking all of that into account and putting your body and well-being first.
S1: Always speak a little bit about sexual compatibility and how that plays into finding your match.
S6: Is completely natural and completely okay to have our sexual preferences. Do we have a very specific , specific type ? You know , because sometimes , including myself , you get super specific about the type , the body type or the certain vibe to which we are attracted. So my recommendation tends to be kind of widen that perspective a little bit more and to consider connecting with folks in ways that allow you to get to know them better , not just the sexual and the physical. However , if you're like connecting with someone and you're not into them at all and you're unequivocally not into them , you know , in that kind of sexual physical attraction way , don't push it. But if you're kind of on the fence , you know , and if you're kind of at that ambiguous space where you're like , I'm not exactly sure. I generally encourage to , let's say , go on to be dates , get to know them a little bit more and to not dismiss the connection offhand until you have a little more information , a little more insight , a little more time to connect or to notice that that connection really just isn't there.
S6: To me , that spoke to like how much we emphasize relationships as only romantic relationships when it's multiple forms of relationships that determine the level of pleasure and enjoyment and connectedness and longing that we experience in life. Because a lot of us do desire that partner relationship. But the process of dating is so fraught with challenges. Relationships themselves can be so fraught with challenges that motivating yourself to pursue them or even think of them at all can be hard sometimes , even though that sacred longing for love in that particular form exists. What I say to folks in that respect is that if you do have that line , you know , create a vision of love that speaks to you and receive multiple forms , support , You know , if you're in therapy , utilize that in order to , you know , look at the treatment of trauma , of course , but also looking at intergenerational wounds and intergenerational gifts and what it is that you are bringing to a relationship and really cherishing that. My work really , really centers the experiences of. Marginalized folks , bipoc folks , queer plus size , chronically disabled folks. And I am also very interested in connecting with individuals experiencing or who have experienced , you know , migration , whether it's immigration , whether it's forced displacement. And I really hope to serve multiple marginalized populations that are often on the fringes of the relationship coaching scene. My website is ww.com. I have completely free resource and guidebook titled top five trauma sensitive relationship and Dating practices that Heal. I highly encourage you to download and check it out , to enjoy it , to share it with your friends. And if you're interested in exploring any of my services , you're very welcome to email me using my website.
S1: Acknowledging who we are and how we want to interact with the world seems to be a big key to finding true compatibility. I wanted to explore this idea a bit more with someone who I've observed become more and more comfortable in her own skin. Josie Reck is a musician and show promoter. She has had some harsh and bitter experiences in dating , but as her relationship with her true self grew stronger , so did her confidence in knowing what she wants and what she won't accept from partners.
S7: Whether you're going to shows , going to hang out at the beach or whatever , or in a movies that's always been dating in my mind. But as a trans person , that element of getting to know someone has been virtually inaccessible for me. Most men I've interacted with have always had this reservation to be seen in public with me , you know ? So hooking up and enjoying each other's physical connection and that kind of like , yeah , that's , that's separate , that's sex. That's just. Which is not the same as actively dating in my mind.
S1: Yeah , that makes sense.
S7: It's always felt the safest for me. Coming up. It was just a bunch of headlines of the gay panic defense which for people who are unaware it's a defense for someone to just murder someone else because they found out that they're gay. It was that's something that's always been that I've always been aware of , like since I was a teenager. Even to this day , you know , I'm no stranger to being gay. I'm no stranger to getting looks. You know , a stranger to ogling. You can never tell who who wants to murder you. Often it's both. Unless someone approaches me and can demonstrate that there are , you know , secure with what they're after in person. If I don't if I don't feel very safe or comfortable , I'm just gonna be like , okay , cool. Nice talking to you on a dating app. You could you have. It's so much more objective on there. You list your identities. I personally take it upon myself. I'm trans , I have it in my name , I have it in my bio. I have it marked there. I'm speaking for me years and years and years of dating and what I've been comfortable with , I've been presenting as non-binary and transform for a really long time. I didn't have anyone to look up to about what queer dating looked like. That wasn't super accessible to me because I was. I've been presenting as non-binary and transform for a really long time. And coming up in Orange County in Santa Ana , I'm first gen Chicana and so I had a older brother and I would see how he would engage in dating and being a player and that kind of stuff. And that that also was in my family too. And so I discovered that dating was really a taboo for any kind of attention that I would receive , mostly from cis men to men. It was taboo. It was something done in secret in the dark. Comments I would hear from people is I find you very attractive , but my homies wouldn't understand. Like I like you , but like. And I was like , okay , well , that's not my business. Like , I'm not here to be your therapist. Um , or I would hear things like , Damn , you're beautiful , but I wish I could take you out , but I can't. And I was like , Where is this barrier coming from ? Like , I'm available , you know , um , a lot of , a lot of trans people , But that I've spoken to mean a lot. I think this is. This is an experience that a lot of trans people have. Like I always been pigeon dating as this monogamy. This boy likes girl , Girl likes boy. And then you start doing things together and that it never worked out that way for me.
S7: I still encounter a lot of the same hurdles , a lot of the same hangups. It really , at least for me , in my experience , it's helped me identify people want to spend more time with others , you know , like the easy , the dating of the challenge , you know , and how do you and then don't like feeling like I have to convince someone to take the risk on.
S1: Me sounds like you're looking for for reciprocity. A relationship is not a one way street.
S7: Sometimes I'm open to receiving those dick pics. Sometimes I'm open to hooking up. A lot of the times I'm really interested in going to a dive bar. I'm really interested in checking out shows or dancing at dark Wave clubs or that kind of shit. So those are the things I'm interested in. Those are the things I'm trying to experience. And then of course , if we can connect on a very kinky , sexual , sensual way , that's , that's then we're winning. Then everyone's win , then everyone wins. Literally. I learned through all of my experiences that I'm I guess what's safest for me is being non-monogamous , right ? I'm not going to have kids. I'm not I don't I'm not looking to like be a homeowner or anything. Non-monogamy rocking out , being a musician , the sex , drugs , rock and roll. Like , that's basically what I've stepped into and hopefully maybe dating as well.
S1: We all know that dating can be rough and downright exhausting. But if this show has one takeaway , it's that human connection love and sex. Well , that's what makes the world go round. So enjoy each other beautifully. And thanks for listening and supporting. Everybody's doing it with Miss Lolly. If you want to hear more , subscribe and tell a friend. If you want to be a guest or have some ideas for future topics , follow us on Instagram at Bad Form Media and shoot me a message. I will read them. So please be respectful and how you communicate. And to end the season on a good note , I leave you with one last story about two nurses working night shifts at a hospital.
S8: Hi , my name is Tammy and I'm Susan.
S5: And we met 2015. Yes , we met at work. I was definitely pregnant with somebody else's baby. Yeah.
S8: Yeah. And on her badge , really ? I noticed a Joy Division badge reel. And I'm not used to people at work that have good taste in music. So he tried.
S5: To call me out.
S8: I called her a poser somehow , in a nice way.
S5: And then I pulled up my sleeve of my shirt and said , I don't know. What do you know about Joy Division ? Because I have a big old unknown pleasures tattoo on my forearm. So that's kind of how it started. Yeah.
S1: Everybody's doing. It is produced and hosted by me , Miss Lolly for Bad for Media. Our executive producer is Parker Edison for Meridian Arts and our head editor is the talented Chris Reyes. I am so grateful these two don't blush easily. Adrian Villalobos is media production specialist. Lisa Jane Morissette is director of audio programming and operations and John Decker is senior director of Content Development. You can subscribe and find our newest episodes on Apple , Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This programming is made possible in part by the Kpbs Explore Content Fund. Have fun out there. Beautiful. And thanks for listening.
Dating means different things for different people, but the one thing that all people in the dating pool have in common is a desire to intimately connect with others. We talk about dating challenges with two guests with very different perspectives, and dating solutions with a relationship and dating coach who specializes in a systemic view of seeking connection and dealing with heartbreak.