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Santa Ana Winds Raise Fire Danger, A Review Of Earl McNeil’s In-Custody Death Finds Sheriff’s Deputy Violated Department Policy, And Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat: The Key Ingredients To Good Cooking

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The season’s first Santa Ana windstorm is raising the fire threat in San Diego’s East County. A citizen’s review board concluded that a San Diego sheriff’s deputy violated the department’s procedure when he placed a shirt over Earl McNeil's head while detaining him. Meanwhile, a San Diego City Councilwoman wants to strengthen civilian oversight of police officers. Also, local Kurds are fearful, angry and outraged over the U.S.’s withdrawal from Northern Syria and Turkey’s attack on Kurdish militias. They see it as the United States abandoning a key ally in the fight against Islamic State. And, Samin Nosrat, a celebrity chef and host of the popular Netflix series, “Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat,” makes her hometown debut Friday at Balboa Theatre.

Show transcript

Speaker 1: 00:00 The mountains and valleys of San Diego County are now under a red flag warning, extremely low humidity and strong winds are expected to last into Friday evening when Santa Ana winds begin to blow in October in San Diego County. There's only one thing we all begin to think about and that's the threat of wildfire here to talk about wildfire preparedness and what to do if a blase breaks out is Cal fire captain Isaac Sanchez and captain Sanchez. Welcome. Thank you for having us. When it comes to being prepared for a wildfire, what are some things that people should be doing right now?

Speaker 2: 00:36 Right now, hopefully what they've done is they've been hitting those, those messages and those warnings and have done their defensible space clearance and have their evacuation plans both for themselves and their families together. Um, but uh, if they haven't done that, uh, you've got to start getting that stuff identified. You gotta register for the evacuation alerts@alertsandiego.org. Um, and, and, and be ready in the event that the knock on the door comes

Speaker 1: 01:00 now with changes happening in our climate, has CallFire changed or updated any of its advice on preparedness?

Speaker 2: 01:08 Um, you know, I don't know that we've changed it or, uh, it's, it's pretty much the same message at it's always been a preparedness is an ongoing thing. It's not one and done. Uh, it takes many steps. It takes time and a, again, you know, five minutes after the, the, the knock on the door comes or the alert, uh, comes to evacuated is not that time. Uh, so, you know, this is definitely a time of year when you should have been ready and, and continue to maintain that, uh, that preparedness.

Speaker 1: 01:33 Now, hundreds of thousands of people we've been hearing about in Northern California are without power because of the risk of wildfire that utility lines pose. Apparently SDG and E has similar plans to shut down power to some fire prone areas in the East County. If the fire risk becomes too great. Does Cal fire have any concerns about that decision by utilities?

Speaker 2: 01:56 You know, what a STG, any, a as an independent company, they, they, they can operate and do things that they feel are, are correct for them and, and their industry. And in Cal fire does not have a position on it. Uh, that is, that is a different agency. We do not, uh, unnecessarily, um, you know, jump into other folks business when it comes to a, um, you know, the way they operate in, in, uh, uh, you know, as a, as a, uh, the utility in, in San Diego County. Um, you know, they're there, they're free to make their decisions and, and, uh, um, you know, we, we respond to the fires and the SDG [inaudible] is making attempts to, uh, prevent fires

Speaker 1: 02:30 having no power in an area. Would that conceivably make Cal fires job any more difficult?

Speaker 2: 02:37 No, not necessarily. Our fire stations are, are designed and built, uh, and reinforced to the point that they can maintain, uh, without, uh, you know, outside power. They have generators on board, um, at the, at the fire stations. They, uh, uh, the idea here is, is that in the event of a disaster, uh, whatever that may be, whatever the reasoning for the, the power not being, um, you know, in service, uh, we're able to maintain a level of service to the public that, uh, absolutely has a reasonable expectation that we will respond. Uh, regardless of the conditions. Does it impact people's ability to evacuate in any way if they don't have any power? You know, I, again, I, I don't know that, that, that it does or does not, uh, you know, uh, this is all part of the preparedness process. You ha, you know, you gotta have your cell phones charged up.

Speaker 2: 03:19 You've got to have, um, an ability to receive those messages and maintain that situational awareness. Uh, prior to the event ever, ever occurring. Captain Sanchez, is there more of an emphasis now than ever before on being able to shelter in place if there's a wildfire? I don't believe so. A shelter in place has always been a tactic that we utilize. It's a tactic that is a, um, is very specific and, and is not, uh, a one size fits all. Um, tactic. Nothing is a one size fits all tactic. Uh, and, and, and where, uh, shelter and places and appropriate, uh, tactic to utilize in response to a wildfire. We absolutely have and we'll continue to use that. But it is, again, it is not a one size fits all. Uh, and, and the public needs to, to be prepared to evacuate and not just to shelter in place.

Speaker 2: 04:06 How would you need to have prepared in advance to make shelter in place? A viable option as far as the CallFire or the, the community, the community? Well, the community, uh, you know, again, it's, it's a, it's a very, uh, situational decision to make. Um, preparedness is something that that is an ongoing issue. Uh, you know, again, an ongoing concern that the community needs to take very seriously. Uh, but in the event that we do shelter in place, uh, essentially what we're asking them to do is, is write it out with us. You know, in, in, in, in the case of a shelter in place situation, uh, we will have resources available to, uh, defend that, that particular portion, uh, that particular area that we're asking folks to shelter. We will dedicate resources to them to ensure that the fire does not, uh, further impact that community.

Speaker 2: 04:50 Uh, but as far as the public is concerned, um, it's not something they should be planning for to sit in the house and, or to sit in us in a specific area. It's a very specific tactic. It calls for very specific conditions, um, mainly that they are facing more danger, uh, by being out on the roads and trying to evacuate. Then if they, if they stay in a, in a, in a designated area that we're, we're requesting what kind of ramp up does Cal fire make when there's a red flag warning in San Diego? You know, the, the big thing here is, is we want to have as many resources available to us immediately. Um, and it's not just fire engines and hand crews and, and, and aircraft, it's, you know, individuals like myself are considered resources to, to the department and we can plug in and, and, uh, contribute immediately, uh, should a fire break out.

Speaker 2: 05:36 And so, so we have up staffed our, our fire engines or our, uh, resources that aren't necessarily in service on a day to day basis, but they are for, for instances like this, a hand crews have been preformed into strike team formation for easier dispatch and, and, uh, um, command and control. Uh, the aircraft is available, like it always is out of the Ramona air attack base and out of Gillespie field. And then, like I said, the individuals like myself are being identified and held on and a, um, essentially being positioned to respond to an incident should one break out. I've been speaking with, uh, Cal fire, captain Isaac Sanchez and captain Sanchez. Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 00:01 San Diego County citizens law enforcement review board. Tuesday sustained a finding that a San Diego Sheriff's deputy violated procedure when he placed a T shirt over the head of Earl McNeil while detaining him. It's been more than a year since McNeal died following a struggle with police. The medical examiner at the time ruled his death, a homicide caused in part by the restraint he was put in along with two spit hoods and a tee shirt being placed over his face. KPBS reporter Matt Hoffman has been covering these developments and joins us with more. Matt, welcome AGI. What exactly did the review board conclude? Yes, so basically the Sheriff's department has a policy that says, um, in, in their use of force guidelines, this has a person's mouth and or nose should never be covered by anything. And the review boards investigators found that after McNeil was taken to the central jail for processing, that he had to spit hoods on his face.

Speaker 1: 00:00 Moving from the County to the city of San Diego. The volunteer group, women occupy has been pushing for years for a stronger civilian oversight of city police officers. It wants a new commission with the power to investigate alleged officer misconduct separately from SDPD internal affairs city council member Monica Montgomery is leading the effort to put that idea on the 2020 ballot over the objections of the police officer's union. KPBS Metro reporter Andrew Bowen spoke to Montgomery about where the debate is heading. Heading

Speaker 2: 00:37 last year we saw this idea of a, a new independent police review commission die before it ever got a vote at the city council on whether to place it on the ballot. What's the status of your idea now and how are you going to ensure that that doesn't happen again?

Speaker 3: 00:50 So, uh, we have seen, um, and um, have been monitoring the women occupy ballot measure proposal and it came to committee, our last committee meeting, which I believe was September 18th. So at that, that committee, uh, it pass through unanimously, but it is coming back to committee with a legal analysis from the city attorney. And it was really important for me coming into office that we don't get caught in the procedural loopholes of this, that my colleagues are able to, uh, judge the proposal based on the merits of it and make a decision from there.

Speaker 2: 01:27 Supporters of this measure say that it's really about the process, they want a more independent process, but there are also some out there who are unhappy with the current outcomes of the current a community review board. For you, what is most important to you? Is it, and do you think that this new model with a, an independent investigation will actually lead to different outcomes?

Speaker 3: 01:49 I think it will. Um, there were four major things that I was dedicated to since inauguration day, um, based on, um, civilian oversight of the police department. And those are the investigative powers, subpoena power, independent commission and independent counsel. And this proposal has all of those, um, factors in it. And so I think that we've been working really hard to ensure that it is an effective commission, um, in word and indeed. And so that's what the, all the going back and forth is about. But I believe it will be effective and it will be sort of like a hybrid model where there'll be, there will be some review mechanisms there, but the investigative powers, the most important,

Speaker 2: 02:34 I spoke with the head of the police officer's association last year, the last time around and something that he told me was that he felt like no matter how robust or independent a civilian review board is overseeing the police, that there are always going to be some people in the community that simply don't trust the police. What's your response to that?

Speaker 3: 02:55 First of all, it's no excuse for us not to do better. We have do better. There will always be folks just as you mentioned, folks that maybe want me to go a little bit further or don't want me to do this, uh, I'm doing what I believe is right. I think the police officers should do what they believe is right. I think that every entity should have a check and a balance. That is what this is about. It's, there will always be folks either based on their own personal experience with officers or other influence that do not trust police officers. That probably will never change. But it doesn't mean that we shouldn't have strong oversight over entity. Any entity, including the police department.

Speaker 2: 03:35 This is an issue that you ran on during your campaign. One, possibly something that actually helped you get elected in your district. Uh, but now that we're seeing the real policymaking, uh, happen some of the details, some of the people who originally supported you are actually kind of pushing you to go further than what you might otherwise do. What has that been like for you?

Speaker 3: 03:59 Um, it's, it's politics. It's government. Um, I'm dedicated to a good policy. The four factors are what I ran on subpoena power, which that was the only thing at issue when I ran really, uh, all of the rest of this was, you know, there's something that we've developed along, uh, over time, but the independent commission, independent counsel, investigative powers, and subpoena power, all wrapped up into the policy that I support. So in my view, I'm doing what I said I would do for those who are not supporting or wanting to to go further have that right. And I understand why, but I'm doing what I believe is right for the city.

Speaker 2: 04:36 Monica Montgomery, thank you for speaking.

Speaker 3: 04:38 Yes, thank you.

Speaker 4: 04:40 Joining me is KPBS Metro reporter Andrew Bowen. Andrew, welcome. Thank you. Let's back up just a little from your conversation with council member Montgomery. Do we know how exactly advocates want to change the present community police review board? Yes. So, uh, the current CRB as it's known, operates under what's called a review model. So, um, after a couple of different types of incidents, for example, an officer involved shooting and in custody death, um, some cases of complaints of officer misconduct, detectives with the San Diego police departments, internal affairs division, we'll conduct an investigation and then the CRB reviews that investigation and votes on whether they agree or disagree with its findings. The advocates say that this doesn't really build a lot of trust with community. They are discouraged from making complaints because of past experiences and they want some type of independent investigation done outside of the SDPD, um, you know, framework entirely.

Speaker 4: 05:37 And that they also want the, a new review commission to have the power to subpoena their own witnesses for example, or new documents. Now there's one other complaint that they have and that's the, and it's slightly less controversial. So, um, there's the city attorney's office advises both the community review board and SDPD. Um, there are internal safeguards to ensure that it's never the same attorney who's advising both of those bodies, but, uh, it does for some create the appearance of a conflict of interest, um, which can damage its reputation as well. So the new model would also have an independent, a lawyer, uh, independent counsel for the new review commission. Now you say some of the people who supported, uh, council member Montgomery are now pushing her to advocate a stronger police review board. Then she might actually want, what are they asking for and how are they pushing her?

Speaker 4: 06:31 I don't think that stronger is really the right word. It's more about some fine details. So, um, one example is that a lot of advocates want a seat on the community review board that's guaranteed for youth. Um, and they want that written into the city charter amendment that this, that city voters would ultimately vote on. Um, there's also some disagreements over the board's authority and responsibilities. So what types of things are they required to investigate? What types of things would they have the authority to investigate if they want to, but they're not necessarily required to, there's some questions of budget and whether the city should be required to fund an adequate budget for this board. Um, but Montgomery says a lot of these issues don't necessarily need to be in the city a charter. Um, because there are two steps here that the city, ultimately the city voters would vote on this charter amendment.

Speaker 4: 07:18 It would be passed into what is essentially the city's constitution. And then step two is the city council would pass an ordinance that implements the charter amendment. So, um, that is a little bit more flexible and, and say something that's in the, um, written in stone in the city charter is a lot more difficult to change if it's not working. Um, some of these things could be accomplished in the, um, San Diego municipal code as opposed to the charter council member Monica Monica Marie talks about this issue as if it were central to the reason that she's on the city council in the first place. How true is that? I think it's 100% true. Uh, many blamed Montgomery's predecessor and Myrtle call for allowing this measure to die last year. A bit of background. So Cole said that she supported this idea of a new investigative body to oversee the police, but she never initiated the meet and confer process with the police officers union that would have been required in order to clear this, this measure for the ballot.

Speaker 4: 08:19 By the time the issue actually got to the full city council, that was too late because that, that process with the negotiating with the union, it had not even been started. Um, Montgomery ran on this issue in the campaign. I think it's something that she absolutely used to distinguish herself between her opponent, the incumbent Myrtle, Cole, and um, it really fueled some of her grassroots support. Last year you spoke with a police officer's association representative who said that police did not want our review board to investigate independently because even that kind of a review board won't satisfy all their critics, all police critics. But are there other reasons that a police don't want a new review board? Well, they say that the current CRB works fine, um, that the, a, they say it's an understatement to say that they just review the internal affairs investigation, that they actually go into more deeper details and they audit it.

Speaker 4: 09:13 Basically, uh, we haven't heard this, I haven't heard this specifically from the POA [inaudible], but police using unions generally have resisted anything that would increase scrutiny of, of their officer's performance on their jobs because they feel like the job is already hard enough. And, uh, you know, making it even more difficult, you know, especially when an officer's life is on the line. Intense situations. Um, would just make it impossible for them to do their jobs. Um, there's also a question of cost. As I mentioned earlier, I'm the independent budget analyst did review, um, most more recently this, um, the latest proposal and found that it would cost a couple of million dollars, um, per year. So the POA also mentioned last year that, you know, we have to weigh that factor as well as this something that is really worth our money. Now, how does San Diego stack up against the other major cities in California and how they review police behavior?

Speaker 4: 10:05 The review model of the San Diego's a CRB is not uncommon. You know, you allow the internal affairs to do their investigation and then there's this independent body that just does bet a second review of it. Several other cities have this model. Uh, but there are other cities that have a more robust, uh, process where there is an independent investigation. We heard earlier in the show about clerk, the County law enforcement review board, um, that does have the power to subpoena witnesses and conduct their own independent investigation. And those types of, of, uh, you know, that type of review model can actually lead to different outcomes as the council members suggested. I've been speaking with KPBS Metro reporter Andrew Bowen. Andrew. Thank you. Thank you, Maureen.

Speaker 5: 10:48 [inaudible].

Speaker 1: 00:52 And, uh, in order to stop the spitting, a deputy pulled the, another shirt, his shirt over his face, um, which possibly could have contributed to his death. And the review board sustained that finding saying that placing that shirt over McNeil's face may have actually contributed to his death. So what was the board's recommendation? Right. So the board had four recommendations for the Sheriff's department that that's part of Claridge's oversight. They don't actually have any teeth really. They just, you know, they make these factual findings and then they have recommendations. Um, those recommendations including included developing a policy to train deputies on the use of protective equipment since that's why they say the deputy pulled that shirt over his face in the first place. Cause McNeil was saying he had HIV, he was HIV positive. The officers wanted to protect themselves. Um, the other one was how to inspect spit hoods because they were saying that the spit hooks spit hoods were ineffective, although there was some talk of there possibly being blood and some of that spit.

Speaker 1: 01:41 Um, and then there was another one, um, that said, it just kinda clarified a rule that said that they should prohibit deputies from adding additional items over spit hoods that may restrict breathing. So they were very key to say restrict breathing. Uh, cause the officer did put that shirt over his head, um, which evidently may have restricted his breathing. Although the Sheriff's department disagrees. Um, the Sheriff's department did respond though, um, to those policies, they say that they believe that these recommendations have merit and they're going to try to see if they can implement them. And how common is it that the citizens review board determines that there was a misconduct by a Sheriff's deputy? It sounds like it's pretty rare that the union Tribune, um, they found after getting data from the, uh, from the review board that, um, out of 942, uh, findings, they only sustain 10 misconduct findings.

Speaker 1: 02:24 So that's really not a lot, you know, and remind us of what the role of the citizens' review board is. Right. So it's like a law enforcement oversight board now. They don't necessarily have any teeth. Basically anybody can make a complaint to. It's called Claire. That's what it's short for. Anybody can make a complaint and then their job isn't to necessarily reprimand the officers, but it's to provide these policy recommendations moving forward that the Sheriff's department can or cannot adopt. And how has the Sheriff's department responded to the board's finding in terms of the finding that the officer put the shirt over his face to make may it contributed to his death or his lack of breathing? They said that they do not find enough evidence to support club's investigative finding that the tee shirt was used in a way that affected his breathing. Uh, they feel that the deputy acted reasonably given the circumstances. Um, and the struggle that ensued with McNeil, although it is worth noting too, that that deputy did retire has since retired from the department.

Speaker 2: 03:12 Um, you know, but previously the district attorney in this cleared all officers and deputies of criminal liability. Right?

Speaker 1: 03:18 Right. Yeah. Last September, uh, the da did a review, the district attorney, and they did clear all the officers from any criminal liability. That includes the Sheriff's deputies at the intake center at the jail and the national city police officers who were first involved in this.

Speaker 2: 03:29 And remind us why Earl McNeil was arrested and what happened once he got to the County jail?

Speaker 1: 03:34 Yeah. It's kind of a convoluted story, but I mean basically he showed up at the police station. They said he was kind of acting a radically, um, he was asking for help. They found on him, I believe the knife and some meth. Uh, they later did find that Methodist system. Um, they put him in a wrap. They put 'em in a spit hood. Uh, once he got to the jail, they said he was still spitting. So they put another spit hood on him. And then that's when that deputy put that shirt over him and then he was unresponsive. He was taken to the hospital and he later died, I believe it was like 16 days later after he was, uh, arrested. Is this the last of the groups that will be reviewing this case in terms of the County the County has done here? I mean national city might be doing their own review, but the family has filed a civil lawsuit against officers and deputies involved in the case. They're saying that they violated McNeil's civil rights. And the attorney said that they're in the discovery phase right now. And he said that there's still a lot of body worn camera video and surveillance camera video that they haven't seen yet.

Speaker 2: 04:23 Um, did he give any indication of how this will impact the civil suit that the family has filed?

Speaker 1: 04:29 Yeah, when we talk about here, we're talking about Doug Applegate who is the family's attorney. Um, he says that, you know, the board can make factual findings, which is good. Um, but you know, they don't necessarily have any teeth. Um, he says, you know, as far as, um, what the decision that doesn't really have an impact on the lawsuit. He doesn't believe, cause he says at the end of the day, the judge and the jury are the ultimate triers of fact, not the clerk. Uh, but he did say that they can do these factual findings. He thinks the process is important for the community to stay involved. Especially if they see things that they think, or if they want to change community policing, they need to go to these meetings and speak up.

Speaker 2: 04:58 I have been speaking with KPBS reporter, Matt Hoffman. Matt. Thank you. Thanks, Jade.

Speaker 3: 05:09 [inaudible].

Speaker 1: 00:00 Salt, fat, acid heat. Those are the four basic elements that can make or break a dish according to my next guest. It's also the title of her popular Netflix documentary series, so knows rata is a chef teacher, New York times best selling author James Beard award winner and LA Jolla high school graduate. She'll be making her hometown debut as a celebrity tomorrow at Balboa theater as part of UCLA art power event series and she joins us now via Skype and some mean welcome to the program. Thank you so much. You started to laugh when I called you a celebrity. Is that really funny? But you are. This Netflix series is just opening so many people's eyes to these four basic elements of cooking. Do you believe that it's really that simple? Anybody can be good at cooking just using those four main ingredients?

Speaker 2: 01:00 I really do. I mean that that is of the main thing that I don't find funny because I think I really believe and I honestly just know because of it's basic human physiology you were all born are. I would say most of us are born with our full, our sense of taste and full, fully intact. And um, I think we even all have foods that we find delicious and craveable and it's just that it hasn't really been broken down for people. Why and how that relates to our own cooking and how we can use what we like to eat and what we know tastes good to as a guide for how to make our own cooking better. So that's really sort of how I came to understand this philosophy and then how I've tried really hard to turn it into something that I can articulate to people and explain and break down for them so that they can use it to improve their own cooking.

Speaker 1: 02:04 Now you've got a whole series that explained salt, fat, acid heat, and what they do for eat, what they do for a dish on their own and how they work so well together. I'm going to ask you though, can you give us a nutshell idea of what, and indeed salt, fat, acid heat contributes to food?

Speaker 2: 02:24 Yes, absolutely. So salt, really his main role is to enhance flavor and also it sometimes changes texture and improves texture and food. So when something is salted properly, it just tastes more like itself. All the way through. The difference you can think of is like a chicken breast that my baby has salt only on the skin versus one that's been salted in advance and the salt has had time to go all the way through. So every bite tastes perfectly seasoned. Fat is um, is it, whereas salt is a flavor, fat is really, uh, an incredible sort of, um, way to transmit flavors. And it's also its own source of flavor, which you can think of like the difference between the way butter tastes or the way oil tastes. So fat determines the flavor of that. Like a culture uses, you know, in India people use [inaudible] in um, Southeast Asia, people use a lot of coconut oil in, of course the Mediterranean people use olive oil.

Speaker 2: 03:27 So if that's what you want your food to taste like, start with, with that fact that also determines texture. Things like crispness and creaminess and flaky or tenderness. In a pie crust and lightness like whipped cream. All of those things come from using fat in the right way. Acid is a flavor sort of balancer. And you know, you can think of that in terms of sometimes some things like in San Diego, it's just like you might get a burrito and it needs salsa and it needs a little squeeze of lime on that fish taco. And that's what balances all of the saltiness and the richness is, it sort of creates this incredible contrast that's so enjoyable for us to eat. And heat is just how we cook. It's the actual source of heat, you know? And basically the simplest way to think about it is that there's two sort of levels of heat.

Speaker 2: 04:26 It's not all of these individual degrees on the oven. It's, there's like hot and fast and there's low and slow. And once you understand what your food wants for what texture you want and what final result you want, you can apply that. And it can happen over a grill. It can happen in an oven, it can happen in a stove, you know, it could happen outside when you're camping. And so it doesn't matter so much the source of heat as it does the level of heat. So once you understand that you can do anything. No. So I mean when you were growing up in San Diego, was food and cooking a big part of your upbringing? Well, I wasn't cooking. My mom was cooking and she is an extraordinary cook. My family is from Iran and my mom really, I always joke that we spent 40% of our childhood, me and my brothers in the back of our Volvo station wagon driving all around San Diego looking for like the very best ingredients.

Speaker 2: 05:21 We'd go to North park grocery for, you know, all sorts of different herbs. And we'd go to the co-op and in ocean beach for the best, you know, like fresh produce that my mom could find and we'd go to the Persian groceries for all of the special ingredients, the fed cheeses and the breads. And so my mom was really spending almost all of her time shopping for and cooking really beautiful, traditional Persian food. And me and my brothers mostly just ate it. We ate it and we loved eating it. But my parents really wanted us to go to school and get grades and sort of like, you know, my parents were immigrants and they wanted their kids to be better and, and have the better life. So my mom didn't encourage us into the kitchen very much.

Speaker 1: 06:08 And now as I say, you are a food celebrity. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 06:11 And I just did mine. It's so silly and so funny also because like your voice is so iconic to me. You know, I grew up listening to KPBS and so [inaudible] and you know, as much as I've been on every sort of news channel and in every publication there's this way where like as a kid in a car, you never would think that anyone would talk about you that way.

Speaker 1: 06:40 Well, it's true though, because you, for your net or like show for instance, you've gone all, all over the world. You, Italy, Japan, Mexico, uh, your home now in Berkeley. I'm wondering in all of those travels, what's been the biggest lesson you've learned as you've been on this food journey?

Speaker 2: 06:59 I think no matter where I go, I am always heard of pleasantly reminded that we as humans are more similar than we are different and that our cooking is more similar than it is different. And there's so much diversity and that's what's really exciting and interesting to get to taste all of the different ways that people sort of put these four elements into play. But then you real, you'll sit down at someone's table and maybe they're adding soy sauce instead of salt or maybe they're squeezing, you know, sour oranges instead of the lemons that you're used to. But you realize like, Oh, all of our pallets crave the same stuff. And so there's this wonderful way where in the kitchen and at the table it's, it's kind of this incredible universal language where I just love seeing and being reminded that we all just want to eat delicious stuff.

Speaker 1: 07:54 I've been speaking with some, he knows her at. She is the author of salt, fat acid heat, and the Netflix series of the same name. She will be in conversation with KCRW is good food hosts. Evan Kleiman at Belvoir theater tomorrow night. It has been a delights. I mean, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Maureen.

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KPBS Midday Edition is a daily talk show hosted by Maureen Cavanaugh and Jade Hindmon, keeping San Diegans in the know on everything from politics to the arts.