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COVID-19 Hospitalizations Continue Steady Decline As 1,415 New Cases Reported

 January 28, 2021 at 12:52 PM PST

Speaker 1: 00:00 California attempts to fine tune its vaccine rollout. Speaker 2: 00:04 The change in recommendation or focused issued by the governor is an attempt to streamline the process. Speaker 1: 00:11 I'm Maureen Cavenaugh with Jade Heinemann. This is KPBS midday. There's no clear picture on the impact of COVID infections in jails. Are they being counted and are they making it back into death lists that are tracking the scale of the virus across California. A proposed law may help the public and the media gain access to police use of force records and San Diego music. Great Gilbert Kusta Yanos talks about his comeback. That's ahead. On mid day, Speaker 1: 01:00 Age before profession, that's the change California health officials announced about the vaccine rollout this week. The plan for the first phase of vaccinations remains in place with healthcare workers and residents 65 and older eligible right now followed by teachers, farm workers and first responders. But in the second phase of the state's vaccine rollout, instead of workers in manufacturing, retail, transportation, and other essential industries coming next in line, the state says it will move to an age based allocation. And officials announced yesterday that blue shield has been chosen to organize vaccine distribution across California. Joining me is Dr. Mark Sawyer, a specialist in infectious diseases at Rady children's hospital and a member of the state's vaccine advisory board. Dr. Sonya. Welcome. Speaker 2: 01:50 Good morning. Good to join you. What Speaker 1: 01:52 Is the science saying about this virus that prompted the change to an age based vaccination schedule? Speaker 2: 01:59 Well, I'm not sure it's so much to do with the science of the virus. It has to do with our ability to distribute the vaccine. Everybody knows that the vaccine has been rolled out a little bit slower than we would have liked, and there are lots of logistic challenges. So my understanding is the change in recommendation or focused issued by the governor is an attempt to streamline the process Speaker 1: 02:24 Workers who have been on the job throughout this pandemic bus drivers, supermarket workers, people in warehouses who work in close proximity to each other and the public, they say they're being overlooked by this change. Haven't we seen actually repeated outbreaks in supermarkets, in manufacturing. Speaker 2: 02:42 We've seen outbreaks in many settings and you know, there are certainly are people who would like to make sure that the governor keeps those people in mind as these new recommendations are rolled out. He did emphasize that equity be included in as an part of the ingredients, which may mean there may be some fine tuning of this age based recommendation that will make sure that people who are on the front line, who can't have the luxury of working from home will go and get the vaccine in a timely fashion. Speaker 1: 03:15 No even people who are already eligible are having difficulty figuring out how to get a shot. KPBS has gotten a lot of questions from listeners about where to go, how to get an appointment. Have you been hearing those questions to them? Speaker 2: 03:29 Sure. Yes. Certainly. It has been a big challenge for people to understand when they're due to get back to me and where they can go to get a stay has made another change in that area as well. They're rolled out a new software program. I think it's called my turn, which just started this week, which is supposed to make that process easier for people. Speaker 1: 03:51 And what about people who don't have internet access or maybe aren't that tech savvy? How do they make an appointment? Speaker 2: 03:58 There are phone access mechanisms, including calling two, one, one. Speaker 1: 04:03 How should public health be getting this information to the public? Do you think the job that's been done so far has been adequate? Speaker 2: 04:10 I do think public health has done everything. They can. There have been challenges in many levels that the communication level from the federal government, that vaccine supply level of four or five weeks, we have gone from having no vaccines to having immunized millions of people, which is nothing that's ever happened before. Speaker 1: 04:30 Discussed ways, different ways to get the news out among the members of the advisory board. I mean, you know, like billboards, TV ads, a huge advertising sweep. Speaker 2: 04:43 I think lots of local communities and public health agencies are working with community partners to try to make sure everybody is informed about the tier system per vaccine and where vaccine is, is going to be available. Of course, the media plays an important role in getting the word out as well. It has been a challenge though, because this situation is changing on a daily or weekly basis. Speaker 1: 05:08 Now last week, state epidemiologist, Dr. Erica pan said it could take until June to vaccinate all Californians 65 and older. Why would it take that long? Speaker 2: 05:20 I've heard more optimistic, uh, projections for that part of the challenge though, is, you know, getting the word out, getting, making sure we're reaching populations in all segments of our society and have different ways of accessing the vaccine. Speaker 1: 05:36 It was announced yesterday that blue shield will have oversight on vaccine distribution across the state. What effect do you think that will have? Speaker 2: 05:46 I think it does make sense to have a single entity in charge of vaccine distribution that just simplifies the process. And there has been some confusion about where different providers are getting their vaccine and who's allocating it. So going to a single source is likely to have a positive impact on the smoothness of which vaccine is distributed. Speaker 1: 06:08 Now this week, because of your work with Rady children's hospital, you took part in a CDC discussion about the safety of the COVID vaccines for children. What did you learn? Speaker 2: 06:20 Well, we learned that clinical trials have started already in children down to age 12 and plans are in place to start immunizing younger children in clinical trials, just in the next few weeks. So we are going to learn in the next couple of months, whether these vaccines are equally effective in children as they are in adults. We also had a review from the CDC about national safety data for our COVID vaccines, which has up to this point. And they have only been administered to adults and the vaccines continue to be very safe. Speaker 1: 06:56 Some researchers are telling us that we're in a race between the vaccines and the COVID variance. The goal, as I understand it is to get as many people vaccinated before the more contagious variants start ramping cases up and there's news today that San Diego has had its first COVID variant death. How do you see the situation? Speaker 2: 07:18 I think you summarized it quite accurately. The more cases we have, the more opportunity there is for the virus to change and mutate and become a variant and become less susceptible to the bank scene. So it's, it's incumbent on us to try to get this pandemic under control before that happens. The steps to get the pandemic under control are for people to get vaccinated when they get the opportunity and whether you're vaccinated or not continue to wear a mask and socially distance until the pandemic is cooled off. And when the w the number of cases goes down, then we're not going to see nearly as many bearings. Come out. Speaker 1: 08:01 Let me ask you just one more question. Cause I think this is confusing. When someone gets vaccinated, how long do they have to keep wearing a mask? When does the vaccination take cold take effect? Speaker 2: 08:16 The vaccine takes effect within two weeks of your second dose is fully effective. And there is some effect two weeks after your first dose. But at this point, we are still recommending that even after you've had two doses of vaccine, that you continue to wear a mask. Because what we don't know is whether, although the vaccine protects you, it may not keep you from having the virus in your nose. Therefore you may still be contagious and spread it to others. Speaker 1: 08:44 Okay. Then I've been speaking with Dr. Mark Sawyer specialist in infectious diseases at Rady children's hospital and a member of the state's vaccine advisory board. Dr. Sawyer. Thank you very, Speaker 3: 08:56 It was great to join you Speaker 4: 09:04 A new I new source investigation reveals public officials are using inconsistent tracking methods for inmates who've died from COVID 19. The issues have led to some deaths going uncounted. I'm joined by Mary Plummer and investigative reporter at I new stores who covers infrastructure and government accountability stories. Speaker 3: 09:24 Mary welcome. Thank you. Thank you, Jade. Great to be here. Speaker 4: 09:27 No COVID cases have been surging in this story. You highlight that there's no clear picture of how that's impacting inmates and staff inside prisons and jails. Why is there no clear, Speaker 3: 09:38 Uh, we found a range of tracking problems. Essentially agencies use different methods to count inmate deaths, uh, and during the pandemic, you know, when accurate data is really crucial for public health and controlling the virus, this issue presents some serious concerns. Um, for one thing we found Southern California counties, Barry, and how they determine whether or not to include inmate deaths in their death totals. Um, San Diego County, for example, only includes San Diego County residents. So for example, if you die at RJ Donovan, which is the lone state prison located in San Diego County, that you have residency elsewhere, say you're a resident of orange County, uh, that death would not be included in San Diego counties totals, not all counties take this approach. Los Angeles County and San Bernardino County, both using methods that capture deaths at the facility is not based on where the person's home address is, but San Diego County is not alone. We also found problems between County, uh, numbers and numbers in the statewide trackers. There really is a lack of consistency at many levels. Uh, essentially we found if you have a friend or family member who's incarcerated in California, there is no place. You can go, uh, to get a reliable, clear picture of how the pandemic is playing out inside incarceration facilities. A lot of the agencies post numbers on their websites, but the data is just not always reliable Speaker 4: 11:06 With all that information unavailable. You decided to look at public records. What did you find? Yes. Speaker 3: 11:12 We found that some inmates who've died of COVID-19 up here, uncounted. Uh, we identified three prison inmates who were incarcerated at Chuckwalla Valley state prison in Riverside County. They were transferred into San Diego County for medical care in Oceanside, all three died there. Uh, they died at Tri-City medical center and all three of those inmates do not appear in death lists that we reviewed for San Diego County or for Riverside. So this really raises into question, um, you know, what exactly is going on with some of these inmate deaths and when folks are being transferred out of County for care, are they being counted and are they making it back into lists that are tracking the scale of the virus across California? Speaker 4: 11:57 Do you have a sense of how bad this undercount is? Speaker 3: 12:01 We found a handful of specific people who went uncounted through our research. I can tell you that it's very hard to uncover these types of mistakes. There's just not a lot of watch dogging of the numbers during the pandemic. So it's really hard to know at this point, the full scale of the problem. We did see mistakes, uh, between death counts at facilities at the County and state level counties told us one number and the state trackers show different numbers. Um, I can tell you that one researcher we spoke with at UCLA who is tracking inmate deaths nationally says she believes numbers coming from officials are dramatic undercount. She thinks that the numbers are quite higher than what we're seeing in official report. Speaker 4: 12:42 And what's the consequence of that. What's the consequence of an undercount Speaker 3: 12:47 Experts we interviewed who track these deaths, um, say that it becomes dangerous because people who are managing the disease need to know where to send resources. And if death numbers are not accurate, it can give a false view of the virus. Um, during the pandemic, you know, public officials are looking at where to send resources and if they've got the wrong numbers, um, it can be hard to tell exactly where the hotspots and problems really are. Speaker 4: 13:14 What did you find out about San Diego County when you compared County medical examiner records and death certificates with government lists? So Speaker 3: 13:22 In San Diego County, one of our most notable findings is that a County jail inmate has died of COVID-19. Uh, this is the first, uh, jail death from COVID-19. Uh, we are the first to report this out. The San Diego County Sheriff's department is still investigating it and has not yet announced, uh, this death, uh, from COVID-19 to the public. We confirmed his death through public records and through an interview with his daughter. Uh, his name is Adele Laredo. He was 62 years old. He died at sharp Chula Vista where he was taken after he got sick at George Bailey detention facility, which is one of the County jails. And your listeners may be aware there was quite a serious outbreak there. He was among that outbreak among the inmates who got sick and he lost his life. Uh, at sharp Chula Vista spent time on a ventilator, uh, while he was awaiting trial on drug charges. Speaker 4: 14:18 What about the staff who have worked inside these facilities and the risk of infection they face? Certainly Speaker 3: 14:23 There is a risk for staff, uh, experts we spoke with for the story point out that incarceration facilities are quite interconnected with the rest of the community. You can have asymptomatic people coming in and out, whether that be visitors or staff, really what it comes down to is, you know, congregate settings, uh, may controlling the virus very difficult, and also to keep in mind, you know, jail populations fluctuate frequently, which certainly adds to the challenge of keeping both inmates and staff safe Speaker 1: 14:57 And have California prisons and jails implemented any safety protocols during this pandemic. Speaker 3: 15:02 It's a challenge, but they certainly have, um, here in San Diego County, they are doing temperature checks for everyone entering the facilities. There are daily temperature checks going on of inmates in custody. Uh, Sheriff's officials also say that they're doing, um, testing for inmates. There's an emphasis on hand-washing and good hygiene. I should add though, that there have also been complaints from inmates and family members of inmates saying that some of these safety measures are not taking place. Uh, here in San Diego County, there have been reports of guards wearing dangling masks and have a lack of hand sanitizer. Speaker 1: 15:37 What is the San Diego County Sheriff's office saying about all this? Speaker 3: 15:41 And, uh, you Del Laredos case, uh, the man who died of COVID-19 that I mentioned earlier, they are awaiting the medical examiners report before they issue a press release on his death. Uh, they also acknowledge that they have not yet reported his death to the state, uh, and that leaves numbers for San Diego County on the state tracker for jails and accurate, spent a little over two months now since his death and his death has still not been reported. Uh, they do say that they will update numbers as needed once his death is announced. Speaker 1: 16:13 I have been speaking with Mary Plummer and investigative reporter with our new source. She co reported this story with Sophia Mahir has Pascoe. Mary, thank you so much for joining us. Speaker 3: 16:24 Thank you. Speaker 1: 16:39 This is KPBS midday edition. I'm Maureen Cavenaugh with Jade Hyman. The passage of SB 1421 in 2018 was hailed as a watershed moment for police accountability and government transparency in California. The law says police have to make public records of officer shootings and use of force. But three years later, KPBS investigative reporter Claire Tresor says San Diego police agencies are still holding onto hundreds of records that should have been released under the law. The 2016 holiday bowl did not end well for Jason Walker. During the game, he got into a shoving match with a man sitting behind him. Things got even worse when the police showed up, Speaker 3: 17:22 I was backing up just, I was like, that guy grabbed me like you got the guy. I was like, that guy grabbed me and said, bring your hands up in the air. And then they shot me with a taser. Um, and a woman yelled don't need a taser him as I would shot. Um, I remember that, but then, you know, they just, there's a handcuffs on me and try to out of the stadium, Speaker 5: 17:50 Walker spent thousands on a lawyer to get charges of battery on a police officer dismissed. He then sued the city and agreed to a $1,000 settlement. But four years later, he still can't get the police internal affairs investigation records related to his case, Speaker 6: 18:07 California law States that when a officer is dishonest or uses excessive force, you can, you know, like at these personnel records pursuant to SB 1421. Um, so I've been trying to get these personnel records. Speaker 5: 18:24 He may be waiting a long time. The law known as Senate bill 1421 is meant to shine a light on internal police investigations of officer shootings and use of force. But three years after it was passed, the records are still slow incoming. The San Diego police department has only released about a third of the required records. The Sheriff's department has Speaker 3: 18:49 Well, SB 1421 said to the agency, you must respond, but what's what does that mean? A timely response. What does that mean? Obviously, some agencies decided that it timely responses a year or two years later, Speaker 5: 19:03 State Senator Nancy Skinner wrote the law and is now proposing new legislation, SB 16, that aims to fix this record's delay problem. Speaker 3: 19:13 So what we've done in SB 16 is given a time certain you must respond by X date or the requester can take you to court. And basically, uh, you know, get penalties. Speaker 5: 19:26 After 75 days, agencies would begin being fined $1,000 a day for every day. Records are not released. Skinner expects it to pass this year. Officials with the San Diego police department and the San Diego County Sheriff's department say they're releasing the records as fast as they can. They declined interviews with KPBS, but sent statements saying the process is very time consuming and involves thousands of pages. Plus hours of video and audio captain Jeff Jordan would the San Diego police department wrote quote as SDPD works back in time. Many of the files are not in a digital format and are recorded on technologies no longer in use, such as VCR tapes. This makes producing records much harder and more time consuming a statement by the San Diego County Sheriff's department spokesman also said the process is too time consuming. The purpose Speaker 6: 20:27 Of public agencies is to serve Speaker 5: 20:29 The public Matthew Helgren. A first amendment attorney at Sheppard Mullin says these arguments missed the point of SB 1421, Speaker 6: 20:38 Instead of viewing this as some special requirement that, um, that has been imposed on that if they view it as just part of their mission and something that they need to devote their resources to just like they would any other program, then maybe that will help them prioritize this in the way that it should be. Speaker 5: 20:57 Hallgren represented KPBS and other media outlets. When police unions unsuccessfully tried to block release of SB 1421 records as part of the settlement agreement, San Diego police agreed to turn over all its records, video and audio by this June, will they make the deadline? Jordan would say only the department quote believes it will be in substantial compliance of the settlement terms. Meanwhile, the Sheriff's department doesn't have the same hard deadline, but Hallgren says time is up under the California public records act records must be released at the very latest within 24 days. Speaker 6: 21:42 The media and other requesters of public records are not unreasonable. And so if an agency needs a little bit more time, that's usually fine, but it's been more than two years now. And so, um, and two years is a lot more than 24 days. So really, uh, they should be wrapping this process app Speaker 5: 21:58 KPBS, investigative reporter, Claire triglyceride, and Claire. Welcome. Thank you. Why do media outlets want this information from San Diego law enforcement? Right. Well, so there's, there's two different ways. One is accountability for specific cases. Um, for example, Lamesa police just released the records, um, for the police officer who is charged with filing a false police report, uh, over his interactions with, uh, with a black man over the summer. Um, and, and that officer was fired and, uh, he's the, he's now charged with filing a false police report. And so that means that, um, those records fall under the scope of, of this law. And so they released, it was about 600 pages and, and that means media outlets are able to read through and get a lot more information about, uh, what happened in that case. Then we would have just known from, you know, the one page press release that the police department usually sends out. Speaker 5: 22:59 Um, but also KPBS is using these records for a broader analysis. Um, over the summer, we, we published based on the records that have been released, released so far, we looked at, um, and found that when a suspect is a person of color police officers are more likely to shoot that person. And then when the person is white, police officers are more likely to use alternative forest such as, uh, beanbags or a taser or things like that. Um, and we continue to update that analysis as more and more records are released. So it's fully up to date. Um, but, but we want all the records so that we can provide obviously a full analysis, um, of those trends. Now you've researched some of the records that have been by law enforcement. Speaker 1: 23:46 Can you give us an idea of what an individual file is like? Speaker 5: 23:50 Oh my goodness. It's, um, they're usually at least 600 pages long. Um, they don't seem to be, uh, organized in any way. Uh that's every file might be different in a different order. Um, and there's tens of pages of just redactions, big black, um, texts, you know, big black boxes over all the tax. And then, um, more individual redactions where they're taking out, uh, names of witnesses, names of victims, um, the date of birth of the police officer identifying personal information, uh, like that. And then along with, especially the more recent files, there is a body-worn camera video from the police officers and audio, lots of audio, some, you know, the nine one, one calls interviews with witnesses, walkthroughs of the scene, all of that. So it is a ton of information, um, that is available that the police departments and Sheriff's department have to go through. Um, but it also provides a lot of information for media reporters and maybe people who were involved in the case who, who want more information about what happened Speaker 1: 25:03 Now, SB 1421, the law requiring police to release these records is something law enforcement has fought against. Is it just because it takes time to do it or do advocate suspect? There are other reasons too. Sure. Speaker 5: 25:18 Yeah. I mean, we actually don't need to suspect, um, because, uh, when the police unions challenged this law in court, they basically said, uh, that it wasn't written in a way that made it clear that it applied retroactively. So they would be happy to release records going forward. Um, but not anything in the past. And I was in, on some of the hearings listening in on the hearings, um, when that was happening in the, the lawyer for the police union was saying, Oh, you know what, if there's a police officer, who's retired and has grandchildren. And then these records are going to be released and they're going to see all of the things that that person did a long time ago. Um, so it, it, he made it pretty clear that it's actually, they don't want full transparency about what officers may have done on the job, even if it was a long time ago Speaker 1: 26:13 Now, is it true that most law enforcement agencies across the state have been more forthcoming with records on police shootings and use of force than the San Diego police department and the San Diego County Sheriff's department. And is that because San Diego has a very large law enforcement agency? Speaker 5: 26:29 Yes. The larger departments like San Diego and LA and San Francisco are not done. They have more records because they have more officers, more cases. And so they're still providing there's Ana on a rolling basis. I think the LA sheriff is about 75% done, uh, San Francisco. Wasn't, wasn't willing to say because they say they don't know how many records they have. Um, and also the ACLU has put in requests and they say that there are, um, you know, about 200, uh, police departments that maybe still have records that haven't been released. Um, and that the big police departments and Sheriff's departments definitely are along with San Diego still have records outstanding. Speaker 1: 27:16 And if the new proposed law SB 16 is approved, how will that change the playing field when it comes to gaining access to these police shooting and use of force files? Speaker 5: 27:27 Well, if it's passed as it's written right now, it will be huge because right now there isn't much we can do when, uh, agencies don't hand over record. So this bill would give agencies 45 days to release the records. And then it would give them, I guess, a 30 day kind of buffer period after that deadline. But then after that, they would be fined a thousand dollars a day for every day that records are not released. So, you know, right now we have, um, the police department, the Sheriff's department that are a couple of years behind. So you can see that that, that would add up and be a big incentive for them. Speaker 1: 28:03 I've been speaking with KPBS, investigative reporter, Claire Trag, Asser, and Claire. Thank you so much. Thank you. Speaker 1: 28:22 Environmental experts are giving mixed reviews on governor Gavin. Newsome's two years in office. Some say he's made some important steps on climate change. Others say he's largely been playing defense as part of a cap radio series on Newsome this week as rhe David Romero explains why advocates say now is the time for the governor to show where he really stands on the environment back in September, while wildfires and UPenn DEMEC were raging Newsome captivated, the world's attention with a bold new climate goal. He ordered the new car and truck market to be zero emission by 2035 Speaker 7: 28:58 Opportunity is limitless for the state of California to compete not only nationally, but to compete globally. That really was very important. Speaker 1: 29:08 Berlin with the UC Davis Institute of transportation studies says the clean car target was a big deal for the state's climate goals. Speaker 7: 29:15 That actually got a lot of attention, not only California, but internationally, and a lot of other countries are now imitating that target. Speaker 1: 29:25 I've gotten a lot of praise for transportation goals. He hasn't exactly been known as a champion environmentalist. Katherine Phillips is the director of Sierra club, California. Speaker 5: 29:36 Environmental community has been a disappointment. Initially. He wasn't talking about climate change at all. Then he started about it. Then he had to deal Speaker 3: 29:42 With all the fires. He says, he's gonna accelerate everything and then sort of put the brakes on. Speaker 1: 29:48 But some would argue that Newsome's lack of environmental progress, maybe because he was playing defense against the Trump. Administration's repeated attempts to roll back policies. 2020s record setting wildfire season was also a major distraction. Although Newsome did help create a state federal partnership to reduce wildfire risk. He also proposed a billion dollars for wildfire prevention in a recent budget, but Speaker 3: 30:13 A billion dollars is not going to go very far. UC Speaker 1: 30:15 Berkeley forestry advisor, William Stewart says a billion dollars is chump change because so many agencies want the funds. And there are so many potential projects. Speaker 3: 30:24 We may need to do something different than kind of small scale projects that we historically know how to do. There needs to be some people would kind of a skunkworks approach. Can we look at doing this a different way? Speaker 1: 30:35 Another area where environmentalist's say Newsome has fallen short is in water management, says Deborah, SciVis an attorney with the Stanford university environmental law clinic. She says the state's fragmented water bureaucracies could be corralled into one agency and he needs to make sure farms and the cities are getting water needs, met Speaker 3: 30:55 Reform water. It's hard, right? And there are a lot of entrenched interests, but if you really want to have the mantle of environmental champion, this is his time to do it. And it just feels like we're just not getting anything revolutionary. Yeah. Speaker 1: 31:06 Advocates like Phillips of Sierra club, California criticized Newsome for not taking bold action. And for being more like governor Jerry Brown, who was known for his incremental approach to policymaking Speaker 3: 31:18 A sense among many people that incrementalist. And isn't the thing they want. They want change. They want clean air, especially young people want to stop worrying about what the future is going to bring in terms of climate change. Yeah. Speaker 1: 31:29 Talking to advocates and experts. It's clear. They're more interested in what Newsome can do. Moving forward out of LoDo Sanchez, environmental equity director for the Greenlining Institute says Newsome needs to phase out fossil fuels faster. He says that will help meet the state's climate goals and improve life for Californians in polluted parts of the state. Speaker 3: 31:50 What I would recommend is not only to hear, but to believe what folks are saying and to really incorporate what they're asking for into our actual strategies, Speaker 1: 32:00 New presidential administration, focused on equity and climate change. Sanchez says the cap is now lifted off the governor. He says, this is Newsome's time to meet the moment and be bold on the environment in Sacramento. I'm Ezra David Romero. Speaker 3: 32:30 You're listening to KPBS midday edition. I'm Jade Hindman with Maureen Kavanaugh, San Diego, jazz trumpet grade Gilbert kassianos has had Speaker 7: 32:40 A harrowing few years with career threatening dental and medical problems and a string of groundbreaking dental procedures. He's finally able to play again. We asked him about the music that got him through the ordeal, as well as the artists that shaped his own music journey. Here's kassianos himself with his story and the playlist of his influences Speaker 8: 33:02 Over the last few years. Yes, I have been struggling with not only some dental issues, but with my lower jaw, I started to experience some severe pain when I would play. And, uh, the pain just got worse and worse. And to the point where I literally was starting to approach the trumpet from a standpoint where, um, every day was a struggle, uh, I would be very inconsistent with my plane and, uh, some days I would sound great others. It was just, uh, I would sound like a complete beginner. It's been a long journey with the medical procedures that I've been going through and Dr. Roy vector, my dentist, I am extremely grateful for him because he literally made, um, devices that have never been made before an order for me to continue playing the trumpet Speaker 7: 34:32 [inaudible] Speaker 8: 34:33 USAC has, has gotten me through this, this whole nightmare in a way. But one particular song that really stands out is a, a tune entitled. There is no greater love by the great Dinah Washington, which is my favorite version of this particular song. For me, it represents me and the music being in love with the music and the love of the music returning the favor. It's almost like if you take care of the music, the music will take care of you. Speaker 7: 35:18 [inaudible] for, you know, great [inaudible] Speaker 8: 36:17 Clifford Brown with strings, uh, was definitely the soundtrack to my life. And it continues to be the soundtrack to my life. It was a particular album that was introduced to me by my father who is also a musician. I just remember in junior high and even in high school playing along to the records. And one of my favorites to play is embraceable. You Speaker 7: 37:43 [inaudible] Speaker 8: 37:50 Los ponchos. Uh, that's what they're really known as, um, but everybody calls them Triolo spontaneous, but those ponchos, uh, that's really my roots. That's where, that's how I grew up. I grew up around an environment where my mother would be singing around the house and my father would play all of these, uh, particular songs that I grew up listening to by little spawn chills, uh, in his, in his groups. And that's how I learned about my heritage, my Mexican heritage by learning, uh, beautiful songs, boleros like solar [inaudible], Speaker 7: 38:35 [inaudible] Speaker 8: 39:03 One of my favorite songs of all time, his reasons, and, uh, that particular song I would play when I had my Hammond B3 court to it. That was like, uh, uh, part of, uh, my, my son and I would play it probably three, four nights a week, but, uh, I just grew up around a lot of women and they all loved earth, wind and fire. And it was just a natural thing for me to embrace that and to also make it a part of my life. And part of my musical tastes Speaker 7: 40:08 [inaudible] Speaker 8: 40:13 For Fayrouz. Uh, there's a very interesting story behind this particular song that I, that I picked when I heard her sing, I was just mesmerized by her voice. Um, I was so intrigued by her and moved by her that I started to do some more research on her and, uh, found out that she is considered like the musical icon of Lebanon, and they would play her every morning on the loudspeakers. And there's a song in, and that's really kind of her hit it's called LA 10 sunny Speaker 7: 41:21 [inaudible]. Speaker 8: 41:25 I decided to adapt that for, uh, one of my albums and recorded as a jazz version. And that one is also on my underground. And so you can hear a jazz version of a Fairuz tune played with, uh, with jazz instruments. She not only was an influence with her music, but also how I approached the trumpet because when I play the trumpet, I don't want to play the trumpet. I want to sing through my trumpet. Speaker 7: 42:23 [inaudible] Speaker 8: 42:24 I think I own three copies of bags and train on vinyl. And I also have, um, the CD version and I still have the original pressing that I just played to that you can't even put it on the record player anymore because they won't even play. Uh, but I still own that copy that I grew up listening to just dissecting it and transcribing, uh, songs off the album and memorizing the solos and, you know, pretending that I was in the band. And, uh, you know, it, it's just one of those albums that, that I, I always encourage all my students and fellow musicians to really listen to, because it's one, that's more of a, of a, an obscure album by John culture. And that doesn't really get a lot of attention. I believe there's a song on there called the night. We called it a day. Speaker 7: 43:33 [inaudible], Speaker 8: 43:46 Let's just say that I wasn't able to play the trumpet again. I would have found another format to express my, my music and to, to get, to get it out. Um, my sound is not in my trumpet. My sound is in my head and I can approach music from any standpoint. It's, it's really, uh, the way the easiest way to describe it, picture the trumpet, being the vehicle, and then picture your sound, which is in your head being the steering wheel. So I can just take that steering wheel and put it on any instrument. And, uh, if I work hard enough, I can, I can still produce my sound and, and, uh, get, get the message out through music that way. Um, it may me a little longer to figure out how to play saxophone or how to play piano. Uh, but it's, it's all there. It's, it's, everything is in my head and that's why I love teaching because, um, I've always had that, um, to fall back on in case, um, you know, ended up being paralyzed or, um, you know, my lips sealed together where I couldn't play any wind instrument. So, um, the power of music is just unbelievable. Um, beyond, beyond words, it's so spiritual and, um, healing, and, and, and you can approach it from so many different points of view Speaker 7: 45:06 That was jazz trumpeter, Gilbert kassianos. You can catch him perform on Monday night with pianos, Gerald Clayton, with the Anthony Williams live-streamed jazz series. And you can find a longer version of his [inaudible] [inaudible].

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