Reveal: Migrant Children's Lawyers Could Risk Funding If They Challenge Government In Court

There is an all time high of 14000 immigrant children in U.S. custody. By law the children are supposed to get free legal services. But a new investigation by reveal from the Center for Investigative Reporting suggests attorneys representing unaccompanied minors in court might not always act in the best interest of the child. That's because the lawyers work for groups that are funded by the government and they could put that federal funding at risk. Patrick Michaels reporter with reveal joins us to discuss the potential conflict of interest certain immigration attorneys face and what that means for kids in detention. Patrick thanks for joining us. Yeah thanks for having me on. Right now your story describes a network of legal aid groups all over the country that is funded by the government to work with kids who cross the border without a parent. Can you explain how this network was established and how it operates. Sure. So the network of legal aid providers it was established basically because the law required it to be. There was a 2008 law that said that the Health and Human Services secretary needs to ensure that there is some legal aid for migrant kids who are being held by the government. And so in order to make that happen the Health and Human Services Department funded a nonprofit called the Vera Institute for Justice that's based in New York to manage this program. So it's grown over the years since over the last decade really. And now there are three dozen legal aid providers in cities all across the country including San Diego to manage legal aid for kids who are in custody. And you spoke with an attorney from Texas for this story. Her name Lorelei Williams. Can you tell us about her. Sure. So there are a few. I mean I guess you could call them whistleblowers kind of. There are folks who are in the legal community who do this work for legal aid for kids in custody. You know what they've said is that they were disturbed by some of the practices while they were involved in this program that you know they were told basically that they shouldn't be representing children in court to challenge the government over custody. You know if the government is holding kids too long. One of the avenues for relief that the kids should be able to have is to take the government to court and to have a judge weigh in on whether they should be released or not. Lorelai's one of the lawyers have come forward and said that she was told by her employer not to take the government to court because if they upset the government by doing something like that they could actually lose their funding through this grant and it would it would ruin the whole project. They were involved in. Do you have a sense of how many immigrant kids in custody are affected by all this. You know it's a small number. You know there are I think the latest count was on Friday the San Francisco Chronicle had a report that 14000 kids were in custody which is more than there ever have been before. So often the system works like a revolving door and kids at least you know years ago would go through a couple of weeks spent in custody and then to be released to their parents. But there were always kids where the system would kind of break down you know if the kid had a criminal record or their parents or guardian did or some kind of mental health issues where the government felt like they weren't ready to release them for whatever reason that fall through the cracks in a way and in many cases you know spend a year or more in custody. And the law says you're not supposed to have a kid in custody for more than 20 days. So is a big disconnect between what was actually happening for some kids how long they were spending in these places and what was supposed to happen. And so so in those small number of cases there was you know an opportunity for lawyers to step in and challenge the government. But you know it's hard to hear about how often those things happen. Is a bigger problem now because it's not two weeks that kids are spending in custody it's more like two months. You know the average has gone way up. And so there's an even greater need now for lawyers who can hold the government accountable for its decisions about holding kids locally. CASA Kornelia is the sole legal aid subcontractor for Vira in San Diego. We reached out to CASA Kornelia and in a statement they said Our attorneys are independent strong advocates and zealous representatives for our clients whether dealing with immigration authorities or immigration judges. It has been our experience that the Vera Institute supports without hindering the legal work being performed by CASA Kornelia staff as a whole. How has the Vera Institute responded to your story. You know I have I heard a similar statement from them before our story came out which said that they encourage their lawyers that they fund to do everything they can to to you know represent their clients. You know and I have heard also that the you know this problem varies from one local provider to another that some are a little bit more aggressive than others when it comes to pushing back against the government. Know but I'd also analyzed court cases to see how often you know lawyers were filing challenge in court to get children out of custody and I found I think it was a little bit more than 30 of these cases and just one of them was actually brought by a lawyer funded by the Vira Institute. And that's important because you know for most kids the only lawyer they're ever going to get is one of these Vira funded government funded lawyers. Now recently there was a lawsuit filed over the government's refusal to allow lawyers to challenge custody decisions. What has that lawsuit revealed about the conflict facing many of the Vira funded legal aid groups. Well the lawsuit. It's called the Lucas R. case I think is the one you're talking about. That was our way into the story. Laura Williams and two other lawyers declarations that were filed in that case that spelled out the conflicts of interest that they saw in the legal aid system. And so that's before a judge and it's it's one of a few concerns that the lawyers have brought to the attention of the court about the way the system works. You know for one thing these filings in the court case these statements that were actually taken in 2016. So it's not a Trump administration thing necessarily. This is an issue that had been going on for a while the lawyers had been concerned about other lawyers I've talked to who've been raising these kinds of concerns for a decade basically. But you know not in the press and not in a national court case. I think that the interest right now is very different the public interest has gone way up since the family separation crisis last summer. Now more and more lawyers are starting to you know they're looking a little bit differently at some of the ways that things had worked before. And what do you think is at stake for these groups. I mean is the entire legal aid program at risk. That's one of the trickiest things about the story. You know I think that a lot of lawyers who work in the system even if they were aware of this practice generally wouldn't look like to see a lot of attention to it and it's because there have been a few other legal aid programs that the government has either cut or threatened to cut in the last two years for adults and for children. And this is definitely something that is at risk. You know the agency could in a second decide to cut off this funding. And you know the fact that the law requires them to provide this legal aid wouldn't necessarily stop them based on their behavior and some other similar areas. So you know it's again an issue where the legal aid groups don't want to upset the government by drawing attention to this program and risk the whole funding structure. Patrick Michaels reporter for reveal from the Center for Investigative Reporting thank you so much for joining us. Yeah thanks for having me.