Speaker 1: (00:00)
Oftentimes it is perception that stands in the way of allyship and progress when fighting racism. For example, a survey done by lean in and survey monkey reveals that while more than 80% of white employees view themselves as allies in the workplace to women of color, just 45% of black women and 55% of Latinas say they have strong allies in the workplace. Well, now there's a book to help bridge the gap between perception and reality to reach understanding host of the podcast. Dear white women and authors of the new book. Dear white women, let's get uncomfortable talking about race, Sarah Blanchard, and we Sasha Suzuki Graham. Join us now. Welcome to you both.
Speaker 2: (00:41)
Thank you so much for having
Speaker 3: (00:42)
Us. Thank you for having us on the show.
Speaker 1: (00:44)
So my first question is what inspired you all to write this book? Sarah, I'll start with you
Speaker 2: (00:50)
A lot of this work, you know, when you watch sort of that quote that you said, you know, 80% of why people think that they are allies yet. I think so many people think that they are doing certain things. And then, and yet when you watch your actions, you're not actually seeing that come to life in the real world. And I think part of the work, this feels like a natural progression of the podcast and the conversations that we've had for the last two and a half years on the show. And like I said, it really comes from a personal place. And this is where I'd love for me, Sasha, to share that. Why, because we've been friends for, for 25 years,
Speaker 3: (01:24)
I think to Sarah's point, we, um, you know, we know what conversations have been happening in the circles that we move in and we know what conversations often don't happen. And when Sarah's talking about my personal, why, um, you know, I have black, Asian and white sons and it is very hard to be raising these boys and, and know that one of my biggest fears for them is that they walk out of our house one day and don't come back simply based on the color of their skin. Um, but at the same time, we know that that's not a fear that every parent has, but what if we could change those conversations and really talk to people on a very personal level, um, and use personal narrative and use education and history and transform what might be good ideas and intentions into practical actions, um, in your everyday spheres of life and influence as to be as how to be more anti-racist
Speaker 1: (02:26)
And Sarah, I'll start with you on this one. Why was it so important for the audience of this book to be white women? I think
Speaker 2: (02:32)
First of all, women in general have so much power that often we don't even realize, right. Society is not necessarily geared to remind us of the influence that we have, whether it's in the workplace or in the home or at the PTA or in your book clubs or in your social circles there so much that we do out there in the world to create community. And so I think that the biggest thing was reaching out to women. And the reason we reached to white women in particular was because there is also that privilege that we were talking about that that almost sense of, they're not part of the conversations about race and racism. I think so we really wanted to welcome people in a led way to these conversations and really reach out as almost like a love letter. Like we're, these are the people we want to reach out to and engage in these conversations because we want more white women involved because of the spheres of influence that we all have.
Speaker 1: (03:29)
Oh, what do you think are the biggest challenges to having these conversations about race and really reaching a place of understanding?
Speaker 3: (03:38)
That's a great question. I think a lot of times, if you think about what is your earliest memory of talking about race, right? It was that you were shushed or you were told we don't talk about these things. And I think we, as a society and, and in America have largely not talked about race. So there is a natural discomfort in starting to talk about something that you didn't talk about, um, that especially if you're privileged enough to not have to talk about it, um, that you didn't necessarily learn about in school. And then a lot of times defensiveness comes up, right? Because now people, um, and we've heard this a lot from white people feel that since they haven't been part of the conversation, um, in the past now it's, it's being directed at them. And what is so important is that this conversation is necessary for all of us to have so that we can all do better.
Speaker 1: (04:36)
And Sarah, from your,
Speaker 2: (04:38)
Again, part of this is that our education system has not consistently taught the history of our country and people's experiences and really, you know, evenly throughout the country. I think we've, we've read statistics that show in certain Southern states, for example, slavery is mentioned three times in the, in the curriculum and the textbooks. Whereas in Massachusetts, it's mentioned over a hundred times. And when you grow up in a country with that wide difference in terms of education and exposure, sometimes it's not your fault for not knowing this information. And I think the more grace we can give people, the more we are going to be willing to move forward, be willing to make mistakes and continue to learn and grow, and sort of be messy humans together with the best intentions of leaning into our communities. Okay.
Speaker 1: (05:21)
And in, in the book, you all take this conversation to the workplace. So Ms. Sasha, I'll ask you first, what are some of the commonplace acts of racism that crop up in the workplace?
Speaker 3: (05:32)
There's so many, you know, that, that I think about, I think about how people talk over other people, um, how people take different ideas, um, from other people I think about who is included in committees, right? Who is, who are who's on your board, who are the decision makers. And a lot of times that decision-making team on different levels can be very white. Um, and when you're not having different voices in those rooms, you're not going to be making changes. You know, I, I think that a lot of times what comes out as allyship is actually a performative allyship in a lot of ways, one thing is said in different groups where you have a diverse group of people. And another thing is said behind closed doors, where that group is significantly less diverse. And so all of those conversations stop people from being able to bring their whole selves to work really. You, you know, that if you show up in a certain way, you're not going to be treated the same. And so the book really attempts to break down a lot of those. Um, the reasons why, and explain why people might not be showing up like themselves for work, you know, whether they're being differentiated because of hairstyle or the way they speak, or their educational background and helps sort of level set that fee, that playing field so that we can build up a more equitable workplace from that.
Speaker 1: (07:01)
Uh, Sarah, what do you hope people walk away with after reading this book?
Speaker 2: (07:05)
I really hope people walk away with a little more hope that they can be engaged in this conversation and affect change in their world. I mean, it can be something as small as shifting the dinner table conversation, or, you know, whenever you're driving your children around the types of conversations that you have, based on what you hear them saying in the, in the backseat, um, all the way to really looking outwards at the various groups that were part of, you know, changing the narrative in people's churches or in people's, you know, home of religious homes, wherever that is or their workplace, you know, I think it doesn't have to be so scary and I hope people can come away with this with sort of a fundamental understanding of why we are, where we are and that they can do something about it. I think
Speaker 1: (07:53)
I've been speaking with host of the podcast, dear white women and authors of the new book. Dear white women. Let's get uncomfortable talking about race, Sarah Blanchard and miss Sasha Suzuki Graham. Thank you both so much for joining us. Thank you for
Speaker 3: (08:08)
Having us.
