Mueller: Special Counsel Probe Did Not Exonerate Trump

Speaker 1: 00:00 Special counsel. Robert Mueller announced his resignation this morning after two years of silence following the release of the report on his investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 election and possible obstruction of justice by President Donald Trump. It's what he's not saying that's gotten many members of Congress debating what their next action should be. Speaker 2: 00:19 If we had had con confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. We did not, however, make a determination as to whether the president did commit a crime. Speaker 1: 00:31 Joining me to discuss Muller statement this morning is Carol Lam, a former us attorney for the southern district of California. Carol, thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. Did you learn anything from Robert Mueller statement today that you hadn't already gleaned from the release report? I'd say that what I learned was more a confirmation of what I thought that is, that Robert Mueller was feeling that he needed to make it clear that they were not exonerating. The president that is a special council's office did not exonerate the president, uh, which is really what Bill Barr said when he was sort of interpreting the report for the nation for Congress and, uh, perhaps for the president. And I think that it seems to have bothered Robert Muller and that's why he decided to give this statement to the press. And Mueller has pretty much said that he will not speak about this investigation anymore. Here's Mueller during this morning's press conference. Speaker 2: 01:20 I would not provide information beyond that, which is already public in any appearance before Congress. Speaker 1: 01:26 How does that impact efforts to get him to testify publicly? Well, I think it indicates what he's going to say to Congress, whether that's ultimately what ends up happening, that he's really not going to testify. I think it is still open to debate. I think what he's saying is that with respect to the content of the report, he's just not going to go into any more detail. That's not a big surprise to me. I think one area that remains open really has to do more with, uh, what went on at the Department of Justice with respect to bill bars decisions as to how to interpret mothers report. That's one area where, um, I'm curious if direct questions were posed to Robert Mueller, whether he would find a reason to say he's not going to answer that those questions. I don't really see how he can do that. And today, Muller reiterated, Justice Department policy does not allow for a sitting president to be indicted. Speaker 1: 02:18 Uh, so if it falls to Congress to pick up where the Mueller investigation left off, where does Congress go from here? Congress has really in the same place it was yesterday, which is they have to decide whether based on the information that they've seen now in the malar report, they think that there is enough both legally and frankly politically to move ahead with impeachment. I don't think this really moves the needle a lot there except to confirm that Robert Mueller did not exonerate the president on obstruction of justice. And that may give a little bit more confidence to Congress in terms of moving forward. It does clarify the grounds on which Robert Mueller's team did not bring an of the president. And what he's saying is it was not for factual matters. It was really for policy and legal matters related to the Department of Justice has policy not to indict a sitting president and congressman Juan Vargas who represents part of San Diego County and all of Imperial County tweeted this, uh, this morning quote, no person, not even the president of the United States is above the law. Speaker 1: 03:21 It is up to Congress to hold Donald Trump accountable. End Quote. Um, how has the evidence needed to proceed with impeachment different from the evidence that would be needed to charge someone with a crime, let's say? Well, the phrase high crimes and misdemeanors, which is really supposed to be the basis of impeachment is something that unfortunately is not very well defined. Misdemeanors is not used in the sense that we use it in criminal law, which is a crime that usually has a penalty of a year in custody or below high crimes. And misdemeanors really talk more about whether somebody has done acts that are not within the realm of what a president or, or a person in that in the office at issue should be doing. High crimes and misdemeanors really is saying that the person has done x making him or her somewhat unfit for the office in which they're in. Speaker 1: 04:10 So it's not well defined. Certainly if a person has done something that seems like a crime that points in the direction of impeachment, but even there, but Congress has in the past in voting on articles of impeachment set a fairly high bar and San Diego counties, only Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter provided the following statement, quote, the cases closed. Let's move on and quote. And what kind of pressure is on Republicans, you think in Congress to act in response to Muller statement that his team did not quote, make a determination as to whether the president did commit a crime? Well, Bob Muller's statement this morning has made it a little bit more difficult, I think, to just say, let's not look any more there. Let's just move on. And that is perhaps why Duncan hunter came out and said what, what he did in an effort to really move the train in a different direction. Speaker 1: 05:05 What's interesting to me, frankly, is that Bob Mueller had this press conference to begin with. It's a fairly unusual thing to do. I think there was probably some negotiation and a, a joint decision made between the Attorney General and Bob Muller that he would do this press conference on the very last day that he is going to be an employee of the Department of Justice and therefore it would be subject to both the obligations and the protections of being a department of Justice employee. He didn't have to do this. It's I think rather unexpected that he did do it. I was surprised this morning when I woke up and saw that he was going to be giving this statement and he wanted to clear the record. I think this is going to make it a little bit more difficult to just move on. Carol, why do you think today's presser makes it more difficult to move on to have come out today as he did with this press conference and say, okay, everything's been misinterpreted. Let me try to clear it up in my mind, he did clear it up to a lot of people. He probably didn't, and that's why it's not going to be easy to move on because as hard as he tries, this just opens more questions. He's clearly saying Congress, you should probably look at impeachment. I've been speaking with Carol Lam, former US attorney for the southern district of California. Carol, thank you. Thank you very much.