USD Professor Martinez Examines Reasons Behind Current Protests

Speaker 1: 00:00 As we searched for a way forward, we turned to someone who spent his career focusing on issues of policing, urban poverty, gun violence, and building trust. Dr said Martinez is a professor of sociology at USD and he's researched community policing programs in Northern and Southern California. Professor Martinez, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. So no incidents of police brutality and racial profiling have been cropping up painfully frequently in recent months. Why do you think we're seeing the civil unrest and protests are erupting now this week? Speaker 2: 00:32 You know, one of the things that I would start with is that if we look at the number of police involved shootings, they've remained constant. There hasn't been, as far as the preliminary numbers suggest a spike in the number of police involved killings. And so the question is why. And I think there's three factors that we can attribute to the, uh, civil unrest. Uh, one is that there was, uh, uh, at least three different police involved shootings, high profile police involved shootings. Uh, the one in, um, uh, Kentucky with, uh, Brianna Taylor. Uh, we had the incident with George Floyd, uh, in Minnesota. Uh, and then there was, um, the young black man in Georgia, Aubrey Muhammad. And what all these instances have in common is that there are instances of high profile police involved shootings, but it's increasingly there's a developing consciousness to see these events as part of a national generalized, uh, phenomenon. Speaker 2: 01:30 Um, and, but we've seen that before. So that doesn't quite answer the question. To really answer this question, we need to look at what's been happening in the context of covert 19. And I would argue that COBIT 19 pushed people to the edge, especially blacks and Latinos who have been disproportionately affected by, uh, COBIT 19. We know that more blacks have died and Latinos have died. People can't pay their bills, they can't pay their rent, they're having trouble putting food on the table. And I think that is what pushed people over the edge, mobilized people to the streets and others. There's one last factor I would add is the increasing lack of police accountability. We've seen time and time again that local police departments, uh, have failed to take action. And I think people have finally had enough. But I think my short answer to your question is we have to think of the context of COBIT 19 as being a primary factor. Speaker 1: 02:27 So covert 19 has definitely contributed to the feelings that are bubbling up now. How much responsibility though do you think that local governments need to take for this level of frustration? Speaker 2: 02:38 Well, I think really it's really up to local government and state governments because there hasn't been much, uh, from, from president Trump. And so the onus is really on them. I'll tell you my, my biggest fear is that these protest movements and the people who are involved in them, you know, mostly black and Latino, uh, and increasingly, uh, whites as well, is that they're becoming criminalized. Uh, the, there, there are narratives in the media, uh, from law enforcement and from the president portraying, uh, these individuals as criminals, uh, as thugs, uh, as terrorists. And I think we need to move away from the language that criminalizes and dehumanizes, uh, what people are asking for it, which is basically just dignity, uh, and a recognition of the community grief that people are feeling. Uh, as a result of this, Speaker 1: 03:32 do you think people are not sufficiently distinguishing between the protesters and the looters? Speaker 2: 03:39 Absolutely. Then I would, I would argue, I've talked to several, several of my colleagues who have been attending the protest that the vast majority of the people out in the streets are protesting peacefully. Uh, and you know, what the media tends to focus on is the, is the looting in the writing. But we need to understand that people are fighting, uh, to, for, for accountability. The minute that, uh, black and Brown folks are criminalized, it gives the green light for more force to be used. So I think there is an increasing narrative, uh, developing between blacks, Latinos, and whites, and increasingly multi-racial movement. That's recognizing the, uh, importance of police misconduct as a defining civil rights issue Speaker 1: 04:30 is this explosion of feeling that we're seeing now, perhaps a necessary part of the road to change. Do you see ways to bring about radical change without this violence? Speaker 2: 04:40 Well, I think, uh, protest, uh, is necessary. I don't, I don't agree with, um, with looting. But I understand and, and I want to make that very clear and, uh, think about what happened with officer Shovan initially. Um, the da stated that they didn't have enough evidence to file charges. Right? Uh, that day after that press conference, people went to the streets of Minneapolis, they protested and what happened the next day file charges were filed and he was arrested. So I think what, what people need to understand is that there is a structural racism in our criminal justice system and the law has lost its efficacy, its power for people to, uh, defer to it. And in moments like this, uh, I think protest is needed. Protests can lead to positive change and it can make for a fair criminal justice system. Speaker 1: 05:38 You, you've written about the collaboration between police and the clergy. Um, talk to us about what you feel is the effectiveness of that. Speaker 2: 05:47 Well, I think in situations like this, um, we need to turn to community leaders, uh, to, to provide guidance, to serve as a bridge between law enforcement and communities of color and black and Latino communities of color to try to, to build a trust that can be useful. Uh, and I've seen that work in the past. This situation's a little different. I think we need community leaders, but until there's an acknowledgement that there will be accountability that's going to have limited effects, uh, I think people are going to continue to protest until they get some assurance that police misconduct will be punished. Officers will be punished in a way that's considered fair. And just, I would add that piece in addition to drawing on community members, whether it's clergy leaders, former gang members, nonprofits, they can all play an important role. I think we're looking at something historical right now and it's going to require more than just community leaders. It's going to require city and state government is structural racism in our criminal justice system. Speaker 1: 06:56 Law enforcement does continue to be sued for excessive force and they continue having to pay out. You know, why do you think it's so, so difficult? Is it because most of us deny being racist and just deny the problem altogether? Speaker 2: 07:10 Well, the problem is that our criminal justice system, uh, is developed in a way where there's very little input from community members. So for example, when we have, uh, judges or DA's and we have, uh, local elections, those elections are largely determined by suburban white voters. And the people that stand the most to lose are urban, uh, voters who are mostly black and Latino. So there's a disconnect, uh, in our political system. But also I would argue that for the most part, the way that police have developed, they are an autonomous institution that is insulated from public, uh, reform. It makes it very difficult, not only for reform, but to actually find out what's happening on the inside when there is a shooting, most of what happens behind the door is outside, uh, the view of, of irregular, uh, citizen. So I think there needs to be more transparency when officers, um, are accused of police misconduct. Speaker 1: 08:11 So what will it take to get that extra transparency that we need? Speaker 2: 08:15 The first thing is that, uh, we need to have a criminal justice system and a police department where there is more citizen. Uh, and we need to have laws at the state level that make sure, um, that when police commit misconduct, that they're not going to get a special treatment. So I think at the state level and at the federal level, there has to be some serious reform and there needs to be more of a place at the table for community residents, uh, to be involved in the investigation, uh, of, uh, policeman's conduct. Speaker 1: 08:52 I've been speaking with dr Sid Martinez, who is professor of sociology at USD and whose newest work is about ways of building connections in the community to reduce violence. Dr. Martinez, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me.