Apple And Qualcomm Settle Dispute, Fighting Climate Change With Plants, Southern California’s Next Earthquake

Speaker 1: 00:00 A settlement ends. The Qualcomm apple trial in San Diego Salk institute says more plants may be the answer to climate change. I'm jade Hindman and I'm Maureen Cavenaugh. This is KPBS midday addition. Okay. Speaker 1: 00:23 It's Wednesday, April 17th the San Diego trial that was supposed to be the big one in the years long feud between Qualcomm and apple. Ended abruptly yesterday. Before opening statements were finished, the two sides announced they'd reached a settlement. The agreement not only ends this lawsuit, but also resolves pending litigation between the two tech giants worldwide joining me by Skype to explain this surprising development and what it means to smartphone technology is reporter Shara Tib can with cnet a website that reports on technology, news and reviews, electronics and Shara, welcome to the program. Thank you for having me. Have the company's released the terms of this settlement? Speaker 2: 01:04 No, they have not. They have just said that they have signed a multi year chip licensing agreement, so the licensing agreement will last six years and then they can extend it by a couple more years. They've also signed a chip supply agreement. So that means that apples I iPhones will again have Qualcomm modems, but we don't know how many years that is. We don't know any of the money. We don't know any of the licensing terms. Uh, so really we kind of know very little at this point. Speaker 1: 01:32 Do we know if this agreement settles the central issue that apple has been complaining about the claim that Qualcomm is charging too much in royalties for the use of its chips. Speaker 2: 01:42 So obviously the two companies had to come to some sort of agreement that they both felt was satisfactory towards them. I don't think that this really changed fundamentally Qualcomm's licensing business, one of the arguments that apple had was the, it should only have to pay licensing fees based on the value of the chip itself instead of the value of the entire phone. Qualcomm very adamantly does not agree with that. I can't see Qualcomm agreeing to anything that would have changed that, uh, that would have just fundamentally changed their entire business model. And there was no way that they were going to agree to something like that. So I think what probably happened is apple realize it needs five g chips. It decided to have this settlement with Qualcomm. I'm guessing they probably maybe split it down the middle of what Qualcomm was getting before. You know, Bridget, we don't know right now, but I can't see Qualcomm doing anything that would really impact their business. So fundamentally, Speaker 1: 02:42 can you remind us what Qualcomm network connectivity chips contribute to how we use smartphones? Speaker 2: 02:48 So what Qualcomm makes our calls modems and basically these are the chips that help your phone connect to a mobile network. So if you think about it, when you put your phone in airplane mode, you're not connecting to any network. You're not on Wifi, you're not on a cell network, you're not pulling any data. So really all you can do is what is already on your phone. With Qualcomm's modems, you're able to connect to a Verizon network for instance. And so you're able to get all of the stuff, all of the updates on your phone that you need a, you're able to call people, text. People just basically communicate. So for Qualcomm, they're technology is what makes a phone a phone essentially. You know, apple, I think in their opening arguments with starting to make the point that oh well you know there's also Wifi, you know, I don't really know how big of a role that was ultimately going to play. Speaker 2: 03:39 But for Qualcomm what they do is help your phone connects to your cell network and you say this settlement might have a lot to do with Qualcomm's emerging five g technology. Tell us about that. We are seeing five g networks rolling out in the U S and kind of globally right now. Verizon turned on their network in Chicago for instance, a five g is just this super fast new mobile network. It's brand new. We're just seeing the first devices for it. There were really only two companies that have five g chips that they sell to handset makers, so that was Qualcomm who sells to basically every android company. And then there was Intel who's only customer was really apple. Intel is about a year or two behind Qualcomm and 5G smartphone chip development. And because of this licensing battle, apple wasn't using Qualcomm chips. So what that means is later this year, basically every flagship phone that you could buy from Samsung, LG, basically every company, it's going to have a five g option. Speaker 2: 04:45 With apple, there was no not going to be a five g iPhone. The worry was that they wouldn't even have a five g iPhone next year. So this year it's still kind of early to have five g. The networks are just starting to roll out. They're still kind of spotty. It's still really early, but by the end of the year, next year, we're going to really see five g and a lot more places. It's going to be more stable. There's going to be a ton of devices. So it was really crucial that apple have a five g iPhone next year. By signing this agreement with Qualcomm, they're now able to hopefully have five g and the iPhone next fall. Uh, it's way too late for them to have it this year, but the belief is they'll have it next year. And then after the settlement was reached, Intel said that it's no longer going to be working on five g smartphone modems. Speaker 2: 05:32 So basically apple, you know, if they want to five g smartphone, they have to work with Qualcomm. And finally I want to ask you, I read that this settlement was surprising and the San Diego courtroom was pretty shocked. Why was it so surprising? Yeah, I was actually in the courtroom, uh, when this happened. These two companies have really been very contentiously battling. They both really seemed like they were really, really determined to fight this in court. Uh, apple CEO Tim Cook was slated to testify. He has never testified in a trial before, even with all of the Samsung Litigation. Qualcomm CEO was slated to testify. It was major, major executives from both companies. And you know, as recently as January, Tim Cook said that they hadn't had any talks with Qualcomm since kind of about the middle of last year. So it was surprising because people didn't really realize that they were talking again. Speaker 2: 06:29 Um, I think this also came together very quickly. Uh, it wasn't something that they've been talking for six months and then they, you know, we were hearing information that they're going to have a deal. It was more that these two seem to be completely opposed, that there was no way that they could come to any sort of agreement. So they were, Qualcomm's attorney was giving, giving his opening arguments at the time that the news broke, that they had found a settlement. So none of us in the courtroom expected this at all. It was very surprising. Speaker 3: 07:01 I've been speaking with a reporter, Shara Timkin of Cnet and thank you so much. Thank you. And in the interest of transparency, Qualcomm is a corporate sponsor of KPBS Speaker 4: 07:18 [inaudible]. Speaker 3: 07:27 Sometimes the most profound scientific discoveries start as the simplest ideas. A team of plant scientist at the Salk institute believe there's simple idea of harnessing the power of plants to capture carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and store it in their roots could have a dramatic impact on efforts to combat climate change. And now generous donors behind Ted talks, the audacious project or giving the sock $35 million to make it reality. This is salt professor Joanne Shorey, who's leading this project from the Ted Stage in Vancouver, British Columbia last night. Speaker 5: 08:02 Plants have the capacity as photosynthetic organisms to help out. And so the hope, and that's what they'll do if it is a catch you, we have to help the plants, the little ourselves Speaker 3: 08:15 as part of the KPBS climate change desk, mark Sauer spoke with bio chemist, Doctor Joe, Dr. Joe Noel and Geneticists, Dr Julie Law, both members of salts plant biology team for the harnessing plant initiative. Here's that interview professor in law. What sulks harnessing plants initiative. Speaker 6: 08:33 So the harnessing plant initiative at Salk is based on harnessing the natural ability of plants to take co two out of the atmosphere. And what we'd like to do is generate plants that can draw down a significant portion of the excess co two that's put into the atmosphere based on human activity. And so while this is a clearly an audacious project, the basic idea of is very easy understand. So we want to use the fact that plants during the process of photosynthesis takes the o two from the atmosphere and generate plant biomass. And then the idea would be to generate plants that take that CO2 and generate deeper, more robust root systems that contain molecules that are resistant to degradation. So in a year over year basis, we would be essentially locking more carbon from the atmosphere into the soil. Speaker 7: 09:18 All right. And professor know, how did the idea to use a cork like substance to help plants grow more complex root systems and absorb more carbon dioxide? How'd that come about? Um, it actually goes back to my childhood. So I grew up in western Pennsylvania and my grandmother and great grandmother were avid gardeners, taught me to love plants from a very early age. And I actually got very into composting, actually degrading kitchen waste and I collected leaves in the neighborhood, et cetera. And one thing I remembered a couple of years ago when we began thinking about plants as a way to change the, the conversation about carbon dioxide in the atmosphere was that I was trying to decompose quirks from wine bottles in a compost bin. And I remembered that they actually persisted for long periods of time. And so I'd sort of drew back on that a couple of years ago when we started talking about how plants might be a mitigating factor for c o two in the atmosphere. Speaker 7: 10:12 Interesting backstory on that. So why does this work? How does this work? Tell us about the process. So it's an interesting idea that you know, for a number of years people have been thinking about engineering approaches to reducing the carbon dioxide that's already in our atmosphere. But the answer was actually staring us right in the face. It's all around us. It was plants. So this really interesting process called photosynthesis that is the basis of third tire food chain, which is what plants do. They actually use. Carbon dioxide is a fertilizer and they convert it into a whole host of really wonderful natural chemicals, one of which is cork. We call it super in, but most people are familiar with it as quirk, but all plants actually have it and it will actually stay behind in the soil because all roots of plants in particular make a lot of this quirky material. Speaker 7: 11:00 And it's a con, it's a protective mechanism that plants have that regulates their interaction with the environment. But we also know when you actually go in and look at soils that are very organically rich, very fertile, and you actually say, what are the natural molecules that are in soil? It turns out that it's the building blocks of Cork. So it's a way of converting this carbon dioxide, which a lot of people nowadays think of as a toxic pollutant. We reframed the question, we look at it as a fertilizer. We're all carbon based life form. So every carbon atom in your body actually comes from carbon dioxide. So by reframing that problem and realizing that plants are all around us, and rather than using an engineering solution, we use a natural solution that biology has been perfecting over the last 2.8 billion years since photosynthesis first arose on her and professional role. Speaker 7: 11:50 How many plants are, what will it take to achieve the goal of reducing co two by 20 to 46% is pretty ambitious goal. It's a very ambitious goal. Um, and we're focusing really at this moment on crops. So the major food crops that are used worldwide that allows us to gain the acreage that we need to actually combat the issue of Co two in the atmosphere. And right now we're looking at about eight plants that are grown on about half of the global acreage use to form a plants. In which type of plants are we talking about? How did you identify which ones to grow? So we actually looked at what are actually grown as the major food crops worldwide in terms of their sheer acreage. So things like corn, rice, wheat, and then even things like cover crops. They are used to actually enrich the soil, radishes, clover and rye grass. All right. So I'll throw this out is kind of a jump ball question for both of you. How do you determine the impact? How do you scale this up on a worldwide basis and hope it has enough impact to be meaningful to, uh, to thwart climate change? Speaker 6: 12:55 So, I mean, on a, on a broad level, of course we want to try to get these plants, the prototypes out and running, and then we have to partner with Angios. And M s and seed companies and, and talk to farmers to get these out and planted at scale and take advantage of that already set in place. Um, infrastructure. Um, and in terms of of measurement, I'm part of the project is to be able to measure and quantify it and in much level of detail then we're able to do now exactly how much carbon is I'm staying behind in this oils. But the nice part about the initiative is that it's, it's very scalable. So in w w the one individual plant only needs to be a little bit better at doing, uh, at, at, um, taking the CO2 and storing it in these cork like molecules in the soil. And if you add it up over all the different plants that we're trying to generate and all the different acreage that we'd like to cover, we can make a big impact. Speaker 7: 13:49 Okay. Yes. It, it'd be determined just how much of an impact that will, you'll have to see that as you go on. Yeah. That's the major part of the science that we're actually conducting. We have to quantify with precision and accuracy what ag would exactly is happening, so how many molecules of carbon dioxide do these plants actually pull in and then modeling it with sophisticated computer programs as to the acreage that they're planted on and we can make accurate predictions as to what it would actually do in terms of reducing the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. All right. And Professor Nolo, what are the key challenges that you see as you head into this project? One is actually more outside of our wheelhouse, which is in policy and interacting with governments, NGOs and seed companies for acceptance of these crops. And that's where I, where you know the scientific community is a global village. We really have to interact with a lot of other partners in this. This is not solely a salt salt program. What we really hope to do is to do the science that can demonstrate the feasibility and the scalability of the project to a sufficient level detail that we are able to convince others to partner with us. To really expand this in an in a global sense Speaker 8: 14:54 and you've got to work a professor law with politics and politicians. I mean, that plays into this department of Agriculture is huge as an enormous budget here in the United States. We have a similar agencies in every country around the world. At some point you're going to have to make that leap in, into the political world on this, I imagine. Speaker 6: 15:13 Yeah. I mean, it's something that we've been thinking about us as Joe mentioned. It's not something that's normally within our wheelhouse. So we're trying to start to engage with them, with the people involved in all aspects of, of policy. Um, as well as, um, um, agriculture in, on top of the, of the science. And we're hoping to kind of engage early and often so that as we're rolling things out, we're doing the best that we can to make it the easiest transition from, from the, you know, from the biology and the lab out into the real world. And we're hopeful that beyond having a social benefit of, of drawing down more CO2, then if we're successful in generating these plants, they may also have economic benefits. For example, the increase soil carbon should help with fertility of the soil and having an increased soil health and also has the potential to make the plants more resistant to extreme weather like droughts and flooding. So on top of having a, you know, a social benefit, we were hopeful that it will also have an economic benefit will, which will help with some of these aspects of the project that kind of go behind the, the, the science. Speaker 8: 16:12 And finally, a personal question for both of you. How excited and hopeful are you about the success and impact of this project? I mean, we talked about how ambitious it is, but it must be very gratifying personally in your careers to, to take this on Dr Law, Speaker 6: 16:26 it's really great to um, to have a project where you, you know, you have the potential to make a global impact and it's really at a time where both the science and technology are at a great stage. Then we can actually do things in the lab, um, in, in a much more streamlined manner and see them translated out into the real world in, in fields. And so I'm really hopeful that we'll be able to make a really big impact in a very short amount of time Speaker 8: 16:49 and professor, nor from your Cork Cork background now to having a chance to really do this in your career. Speaker 7: 16:55 So I'm a grandfather now and I have two children. And so I would love to live, leave a legacy in a selfish sense to my own family, but also to the, to the larger community. It was one of the original mandates of Jonas Salk at the sock when he found it was too. We have to be reasonably good ancestors to the future. So as Julie said, with the technology now available, I'm very optimistic that we can achieve this. The, you know, how we get there. That's what the science, that's what we have to do. And we face this every day in our lab. We're all, we're going to hit, you know, roadblocks. But what we do as scientists figure out solutions to those problems, and uh, and I'm very, very hopeful that this is, this will be one part of a larger group of technologies and science that can be brought to bear to deal with the issue of climate and the stakes couldn't be higher with global warming and climate change. Absolutely. Absolutely. Speaker 8: 17:46 I've been speaking with Salk institute professors, Joe Noel Speaker 9: 17:49 and Julie Law, both members of the sock Speaker 10: 17:52 plant biology team. Thank you both. Speaker 1: 17:54 Thank you. Thank you. And they were speaking with KPBS is mark Sauer as part of the KPBS climate change desk? Speaker 9: 18:07 Yeah. Speaker 1: 18:11 You're listening to KPBS mid day edition. I'm jade Hindman and I'm Maureen Cavenaugh watching fire. Whether it's the tragedy at Notre dam or a brush fire along the side of the freeway, it's always a visceral experience for Californians. That's because we know we live with the threat of fire, a threat that's becoming worse. Last week, governor Newsome released a report that outlined possible strategies for helping California's utilities cope with the costs of wildfire. And during that announcement he referenced some findings in a new in depth mcclachi investigative report on recent California wildfires. Speaker 11: 18:49 They did a wonderful piece yesterday around the campfire assessing, uh, this issue of haul hardening. 51% of the homes that were built after 2008 related to the campfire, 51% of them survived the fire. Just 18% of the homes that were built before 2008 survived the wildfire. Speaker 1: 19:12 Joining me now by Skype is Phillip Reese, a reporter with the Sacramento Bee who code wrote the investigation titled Destined to burn. It was produced in partnership with the Associated Press, media news and good net. And Phillip, welcome to the program. Thanks for having me. The mcclachi analysis found 2.7 million Californians live in areas deemed to be at very high hazard for wildfires. We saw the town of paradise destroyed by the Campfire. How many other towns like paradise are there? In California, Speaker 10: 19:46 we identified 75 additional towns across the state with more than 1000 people. These include incorporated places and unincorporated communities where a more than 90% of the town was in a very high hazard fire severity zone. And they are everywhere from near the southern border all the way up into the northern mountains. Speaker 1: 20:03 What are the very high fired hazard areas in San Diego? Speaker 10: 20:08 So there's quite a few actually. Um, the one we visited was Harbison Canyon and it burned in the cedar fire, which I think was around 2003. And then it also burned earlier in the Laguna fire, which was in 1970. We also looked a little bit at um, uh, the town of [inaudible], the town of Descanso. And then just San Diego itself, even though much of the town is not in a very high fire hazard severity zone, much of it is about 25% of the population of San Diego lives in one of these areas that cal fire is designated to be at very high risk if a fire was to start. So San Diego itself, even though it's not on our list of 75 because it's so large, it actually has more than 300,000 people living in these, uh, these zones. Speaker 1: 20:51 Tell us more about harvest and Canyon in the East county here in San Diego. Your report finds that there've been more houses built in that area since it lasts. Burned, but not much in the way of road improvement or fire safety. Is that right? Speaker 10: 21:06 That's right. So this area, what we found is some of the residents we talked to and some of the fire officials there said that the infrastructure had not improved quickly enough to match the growth in the community. So we heard from a couple of different people that the roads were too narrow, for instance. And only recently did the community get 24 hour fire protection. So there's still some challenges there. Speaker 1: 21:27 So aside from looking at the areas around the state, that could be the next paradise, you also examined why it is that in certain neighborhoods, some homes survive, fires while others don't. And your analysis found it had to do with new building codes. Speaker 10: 21:43 Just to be a little more particular about it. We found that the home's built since 2008 in the path of the campfire, which is the fire that burned through paradise and neighboring communities. If 51% of those homes since 2008 is the governor's referring to survive the campfire, which was a much higher percentage than those built before then. The reason that 2008 date is important is because that's when the state using these cal fire maps that we used in our analysis instituted stricter building codes and these building codes require a whole lot of things, a litany of things, but among them are thanks to make structures safer. Things like I'm roofing and events that are resistant to embers, which was the cause of a lot of these urban Firespring. As the wind blows to immerse into the events are under the roof, the fire catches. Um, so anyway, the, the, the homes that were built after that survived at a higher rate than the homes built before that day. That was the extent of our analysis. Speaker 1: 22:31 So one, if someone gets that information, a homeowner has that information, wants to retrofit, is home with a new roof or fire an ember proof fence, is there any kind of state program that would help them pay for it? Speaker 10: 22:46 You know, I think there's a lot of things under discussion, but um, I think that it is something that the state is talking about right now and it's something that governor, governor Newsome's talking about. He referenced it in the clip you suggested. The other conversation of course, is surrounding whether to how much to reduce fuels and how much did thin forests, the balance between doing that and protecting the environment. That's another big ongoing conversation among many to protect these homes. Speaker 1: 23:11 Hello. What was the overall purpose of the article destined to burn? Why did your paper and the others take on this issue? Sure. Speaker 10: 23:18 Well, we've just seen this large increase in wildfires over the last few years. We covered the campfire. We were the largest media organization nearby, I suppose you'd say. And um, we wanted to see where else this could happen. And we were just surprised that there were so many places that like paradise, like Malibu in southern California that also had trouble this past year. So much of the town was in these very, very high fire hazard areas. Um, that was the first thing. And then we also wanted to see what can be done with about it. So we tested our hypothesis that new homes would survive more readily then older homes. And that appeared to be the case in paradise even though there was not a ton of newer homes. It was in the hundreds, um, compared to thousands of older homes. But it still showed this pattern that we, um, that we wrote about. So we want to just point out the problem and we also wanted to give readers a chance to see us possible solution. Speaker 1: 24:12 I've been speaking with Phillip Brace, a reporter with the Sacramento Bee who cowrote the investigation titled, Yeah, Speaker 10: 24:18 destined to burn. And Philip. Thank you. Sure. Thank you. Speaker 9: 24:36 Yeah. Speaker 1: 24:38 California's residential communities are not alone in the risk of being wiped out by wildfire. Pacific gas and electric has filed for bankruptcy protection. Southern California Edison and San Diego gas and electric just saw big credit rating drops and new studies suggest California huge utility rights could skyrocket. Governor Gavin Newsome says all of that is proof. California must find new ways to absorb billions of dollars in wildfire damages. Tuesday was Newsome's 100th day as governor and he sat down earlier this week with capital public radio has Ben Adler, Ben asked, knew some about a proposal that's very unpopular with voters to shift liability away from utilities when their equipment starts fire. But they are not at fault. Speaker 11: 25:26 This is complicated and it requires it just station period with a lot of groups and interested parties that need to digest the consequences of change because one thing is not working and that's the status quo. We all will pay the price of the status quo and it is jaw dropping those costs. And so I'm trying to address that. I think in a, in a different approach and different strategy in different way. Speaker 12: 25:49 You don't just have to bring lawmakers along, you have to bring voters along because the idea of a quote unquote PG and e bail out. And I recognize that you can fix the term bail out to anything you don't like and make it a talking point. But voters don't want that and they can turn sour on you awfully quickly. And yet you're, you're certainly saying we at least at the very least need to consider this deeply unpopular step. Speaker 11: 26:10 Yeah, no, I'm, I'm not bailing out PGD. I've never argued for that. In fact, her report calls and break the glass scenario municipalization. I don't know how that could be construed as a bail out, but, uh, no, I get that. And the purpose of this document was to make public the complexities of this. It's a climate change report. It's a report about, uh, forgive me, procurement. Uh, it's about sustainable energy policy. It's a report about governance. Uh, it's not a reported by Pgne. It's report about utilities operating, uh, with the hots getting hotter and the drives getting drier. Uh, it's a report, uh, about the backdrop of a, of community choice aggregators. And direct access power purchase agreements, if, forgive the vernacular, it's a complicated nuance, a deep dive in the nature of electricity, uh, in the modern era. And it's a report that is long overdue, uh, despite the fact that it was precipitated a situationally by a PG and e bankruptcy. Speaker 11: 27:12 But it by no means limited to the question or issue a PGD. It's a much deeper and broader question. Was PG and e lost the privilege to operate with a, basically a monopoly and large parts of the state? I don't know about that. I think they've, they've lost trust, public trust. They've lost trust with this administration. That was very pointed. I sent a letter, but 10 days ago a attaching very strong opinions about, uh, their new board of directors. Uh, the one, uh, that was rumored and ultimately the one that came out, I had been pointed about my expectations in terms of behavior. I said they miss directed and they've, they've been mistreated. The public, I said that at the press conference. So, uh, we've been very pointed and, and to the extent that, uh, they are committed to changing their ways. We'll wait and see, but, uh, they don't have much time to prove that. And meanwhile we're moving aggressively to influence the, the bankruptcy proceedings, uh, and moreover broadened and influence as it relates to the larger issues of governing in this environment outside of PG territory, including in southern California and substantively in the southern part of the state. San Diego. Speaker 3: 28:17 That was California Governor Gavin Newsome speaking with capital public radio's Ben Adler. So this Easter Sunday marks nine years since an earthquake was felt in southern California, in Mexicali. There was a lot of damage after that. 7.2 earthquake happened almost a decade ago. But as we close in on a decade, a new study shows that we are in an earthquake drought and here to talk about what an earthquake drought is. It's Paleo seismologist, Dr. Thomas Rockwell. Dr Rockwell, welcome. Thank you. Glad to be here. So researchers from the US Geological Survey say there had been no major ground rupturing earthquakes along these three key faults over the past 100 years. Why is that significant? Speaker 13: 29:11 So almost all of the motion between the Pacific and North American plates, which is almost 50 millimeters a year, occurs on the fault of the San Andres system. And principally in southern California. That's the San Andrei is the Senate sent on Elsner faults in northern California. It's a San Andres, the Calaveras, the conquered them, a comma, the Rodgers creek. There's a whole system of false up there as well. And in the past hundred years, none of these faults have ruptured and in a large earthquake, whereas in the previous thousand years, there had not been a period of a hundred years on one of these faults has not ruptured Speaker 3: 29:45 well. So given the passage of time then, is it fair and accurate to say that we're overdue for a large earthquake? Speaker 13: 29:52 We don't like to say overdue, but to show you how bad it is or why we're so concerned. I'm sure you've heard people talk about the San Andreas is overdue or due for an earthquake. So from dating pastor earthquakes from the geology that we do, uh, we know that the average recurrent interval, the average time between large earthquakes on the southernmost San Andres is about 180 years. It's now been 300 years since the last large earthquake. So this has led to the idea that maybe we're overdue a, but there's caveats to that. Uh, in any case is very clear that the southern his hand Andrei has, is certainly ripe for a large earthquake. And the question is why hasn't it happened? And then why hasn't a large earthquake occurred on the Santa Santa's? We've had moderate earthquakes. Some people may remember earthquakes on the southern Sanison to fault in 1968, uh, there was an earthquake on the imperial fought in 1979 so there have been some earthquakes, but they were, they released so little energy. It's the big ones that really, uh, really released most of the energy. And those are the ones who are worried about. Speaker 3: 31:00 So which fault line should be of the greatest concern for those living in San Diego? Speaker 13: 31:05 Well, for San Diego is the Rose Canyon fault. No question, but from our recent studies when we just had a paper come out in the last few weeks, uh, the Rose Canyon fault only produces these relatively large earthquakes in the high magnitude sixes by every six to 800 years. And the last one was just pre mission. So in the last 300 years, so it's one that we're, that's not one that we say is overdue by any account. On the other hand, a strong earthquake on one of the offshore faults or the Elsinore was certainly produce strong shaking and San Diego. Uh, the one we're really worried about is the San Andreas. And I'm not so worried in San Diego for the San Andres fault. That one, if it ruptures from south to north modeling, studies have shown it does a tremendous amount of damage in Los Angeles. So that's the main concern because that's where the main population center is. Hmm. Speaker 14: 31:56 [inaudible] Speaker 3: 32:07 you know, I, I remember the, the bay area earthquake, seeing that on television. I was living back home in St Louis, Missouri. And shortly after that happened, we had someone come through who predicted that there would be a major earthquake in Missouri. And there were all of these measures taken to secure school buildings and school desks and things like that. Is there really a way to predict when an earthquake will happen? Speaker 13: 32:33 No, we cannot predict earthquakes. And in terms of prediction, we're talking short term prediction. What we is, we study the past history of earthquakes on a fault. And then based on the statistics we forecast the probability or the likelihood of an earthquake occurring and say a 30 or 50 year window that's very different than these, I don't want to necessarily call them yeah. Quacks, but uh, uh, people who, uh, make the short term predictions based on, uh, the behavior of their cat or cause they had a bad dream. You know, Jean Dixon, the whole California is going to slide into the ocean. No, we can't do that. Uh, continental crust is lighter than oceanic crust. It is impossible to do that. So, you know, there's a lot of these predictions that happen because somebody has a nightmare or something and they think there's something special maybe in terms of psychic ability or whatever, I don't know. Speaker 13: 33:28 But, uh, I would not put much faith or any faith in those types of predictions. However, if you can base it on science, if you can base it on what we know has happened in the past, we can forecast a likelihood that it will happen within a window in the future. A 30 year window is too small of a target to capture a broad statistical distribution. But we can make those and we have made those, those are all, uh, uh, published an inaccessible to the public. So better to put your faith in preparedness then predictions. Absolutely. Everyone should be prepared for an earthquake. Even the Rose Canyon fault, we say, you know, just had a big earthquake a few hundred years ago, uh, but it could still have a magnitude six at any time. And we had one in San Diego historically, uh, in 1862 and we didn't have a newspaper at the time and we didn't have KPBS, but it was called the day of terror in the Los Angeles Star. So it was about a magnitude six and ruptured in the old town area. We know that from the work we've done in old town, we found the actual, the displacement from that earthquake at the surface and at fault historical deposit. So a six in any time was still do a lot of damage in San Diego. I've been speaking with Dr. Thomas Rockwell, a Paleo seismologist at Sdsu. Dr Rockwell. Thank you very much. My pleasure. Speaker 1: 35:03 This is KPBS mid day edition. I'm jade Hindman. I'm Maureen Cavenaugh, many from San Diego. We'll be heading out of town for their second weekend of the Coachella Valley Music and arts festival. What a lot of concert goers may not know is that the eastern Coachella valley is home to its own thriving alternative music scene. One without long lines, expensive ticket prices, or the searing daytime son. This year, the music festival, we'll include [inaudible] hosts a homegrown band with a big local following the California reports, Marissa Medina Medina went to a concert and brought us this story. Speaker 15: 35:42 I'm 15 minutes from the resorts and hotels of Palm Springs, but this bar, I mean next to a nail salon and an electronics repair shop feels like a world away through a thick cloud of machine made smoke. I see four dudes on stage. They're all dressed in matching white button down shirts, black jeans, white patent leather shoes, like the kind of jumbo Allana's. Where could the Quinceanera, if you look good, you feel good and if you feel good, you play good. That's Denny thought is we synth player. He and the band's Co founder, we're thick black glasses, so their name archer, your office meaning eight eyes came naturally. We are all trial goes good night. It's called the bilateral. Are y'all feeling cranky? Speaker 16: 36:31 Oh Wow. Speaker 15: 36:34 This monthly party that [inaudible] has puts on is called violet. That I'm piece and I'd have Tillen and dancing. It's like the light night, but we don't call it that because the school year, even if it wasn't a light night, late night, every night, that's James Gustallo, the bass player. He tells me, shut out here in Coachella Valley's underground music scene or punk metal and surf rock ride. It's pretty rare to hear Latin music like this and it's different than the Columbia. You might hear it, a family party. These guys have ditched the acoustic guitar and Accordion First Synthesizer and a wall pedal to create a trippy electronics sound. Speaker 15: 37:22 One of the fans into tonight's crowd is Max Lopez. He's a hardcore rocker dude with long hair and all black clothes. He's usually more into metal, but he says he can still rock out to auto hubs almost a a lot, you know, and we're going to be a background. I was like, you don't want to give us a try, you know? And I loved it. You know, like I really found that I float with it, you know, and it's like natural. That's because [inaudible] takes they're gritty sound from teacher style of Gambia that originated in the Peruvian Amazon in the late sixties and seventies the kind of soundtrack of empowerment. Well, indigenous migrants who moved to Duluth urban cities at the time, judge, while many Peruvians look down on the working class teacher seen today, this music is inspiring a new wave of young Latinex band, Ross, California and like Blues Teaching Musicians who sing about daily struggle and hometown pride. So do the members of Coachella's archer or Hos. Here's guitarist and vocalist sets Florida's Flores. We have a song called Avenida. See what they love having a 52 is the street that goes from look into all the way to the city of Coachella and fans like Antonio's run, say they hear their own family's migration story in the music. Our parents have worked hard Speaker 17: 38:42 for us to be where we are, to be musicians, to be artists, to be whatever the heck we want to be. And that is the most important part of being from Coachella is it your parents pave the way Speaker 15: 38:55 to make something out of nothing unless in the band and their fans didn't just learn from the East valley's backyard, Brock and punk scene cause I'm their parents' hustle born out of necessity or like they say in Spanish, no I the ultra and there's no other way. We just have to keep on going. That's hodge. All hosts drummer, Rafael Rodriguez, he says the group speaks to us born Latinex oscillating between two cultures and languages. Uh Huh. Speaker 17: 39:22 Hey get a little closer. Yo. We're all, we're all here to have a good time. Come and join us over here on the dance floor. Speaker 15: 39:36 No one in this 20 and 30 something crowd is instagramming the moment actually nobody has their phones out. All attention is to the stage. It's like we're all under this Gambia stuff. She's taking in these hypnotic 20 rifts that kind of sounded like a thunderstorm happening in outer space. I asked people in the crowd how they feel about the big Coachella fest that shares the same name as their city. A lot of folks tell me it's pretty sweet to hear world's famous musicians practically play in their backyard, but think the organizers could do more to invest in local talent, especially from the Latinex community. Bass player. James Remembers being a teen unable to afford the ticket, so like a lot of locals, he'd listen from a distance. I would just stand outside of it and you could still see like some of the screens from certain angles like of the stages, but this year is different. He and the other members of draw Joel Horse get to be inside the festival as part of the official lineup listed beneath bad bunny and Ariana Grande Day. This moment is huge for their fans to Max the rocker. Dude, you heard earlier says when festival goers and outsiders here [inaudible] you're listening to us. That's a beautiful part about it. Like I said, real people from the Coachella valley not imported talent. Speaker 17: 41:10 Well, we got one more. This one's called [inaudible]. Speaker 18: 41:18 Oh sure. Almost closes. They're set with the crowd favorite. It's an ode to the desert, back roads, agricultural fields, and the salts and seen the fertile grounds that have shaped this psychedelic lumia ban and to who they are today did the California Port Soul Medina cabinet in the eastern Coachella valley. Speaker 3: 41:44 It's unlikely that Coachella concert goers will happen to cross this the bodies scoop shop unless they know where to look forward in a strip mall and the eastern Coachella Valley. But locals adore the ice cream parlor founded by Jessie Garcia Jr and his sister Connie Garcia, preceded it's creative Mexican inspired flavors are sourced from Latinex customers. Bryan Mendez brought California report host Sasha Coca and for taste. Speaker 15: 42:12 Hey Jesse, all our ice cream from scratch, including her shaved ice inhouse. Jesse got his start working in local kitchens, catering to tourists at different country clubs and resorts. He eventually left to train as a chef in Paris and that's where he learned a lot about ice cream, but he always dreamed of opening up a scoop shop for locals in his hometown of Coachella. The concept of [inaudible] is that all the flavors are crowd sourced from customers. As a result. They are very unique. You know when they started going with a lot of the Mexican pastries was against heat though that that must have been ice cream. What is that going to sleep though? Think of a twinkie covered in chocolate, filled the strawberry and cream feeling Marzipan, another Mexican candy. Very flaky peanut base. A flavor in it. So what is uh, uh, Sunday Enchilada? It's the Mexican candy at the Watermelon Candy covered in children, made it into shape. Dice. That's what we usually give it cause so good. A lot of love into it. You can taste it and go ahead and order that spicy watermelon ice cream in a special creation. Jesse calls the Mongo Niana. Basically it's three giant scoops of Jesse's homemade ice cream in a cup layered with Chamoy, which is a salty, sweet sauce and then some Faheem Chile mixed with salt. And finally fresh mango garnished with a bunch of different tamarind Chile candies. I will need my dinner after this. The big ones. I dig in all that tangy Chile and sweet mango bursting together into an authentic flavor of the Coachella valley. Speaker 3: 43:47 That was California report host, Sasha Coca. Speaker 9: 43:54 Yeah. Speaker 1: 00:00 You're listening to KPBS mid day edition. I'm jade Hindman and I'm Maureen Cavenaugh watching fire. Whether it's the tragedy at Notre dom or a brush fire along the side of the freeway. It's always a visceral experience for Californians. That's because we know we live with the threat of fire, a threat that's becoming worse. Last week, governor Newsome released a report that outlined possible strategies for helping California's utilities cope with the costs of wildfire and during that announcement he referenced some findings in a new in depth mcclachi investigative report on recent California wildfires. Speaker 2: 00:37 They did a wonderful piece yesterday around the campfire assessing, uh, this issue of home hardening. 51% of the homes that were built after 2008 related to the campfire, 51% of them survived the fire. Just 18% of the homes that were built before 2008 survived the wildfire. Speaker 1: 01:01 Joining me now by Skype is Phillip Reese, a reported with the Sacramento Bee who cowrote the investigation titled Destined to burn. It was produced in partnership with the Associated Press, Media News, and Ganette and Phillip, welcome to the program. Thanks for having me. The mcclachi analysis found 2.7 million Californians live in areas deemed to be at very high hazard for wildfires. We saw the town of paradise destroyed by the Campfire. How many other towns like paradise are there in California, Speaker 3: 01:34 we identified 75 additional towns across the state with more than 1000 people. These include incorporated places and unincorporated communities where a more than 90% of the town was in a very high hazard fire severity zone and they're everywhere from near the southern border all the way up into the northern mountains. Speaker 1: 01:52 What are the very high fired hazard areas in San Diego? Speaker 3: 01:56 All right, so there's quite a few actually. Um, the one we visited was Harbison Canyon and it burned in the cedar fire, which I think was around 2003. And then it also burned earlier in the Laguna fire, which was in 1970. We also looked a little bit at um, uh, the town of humble, the town of Descanso. And then just San Diego itself, even though much of the town is not in a very high fire hazard severity zone, much of it is about 25% of the population of San Diego lives in one of these areas that cal fire is designated to be at very high risk if a fire was to start. So San Diego itself, even though it's not on our list of 75 because it's so large, I'm actually has more than 300,000 people living in these, uh, these zones. Speaker 1: 02:40 Tell us more about harvest and Canyon in the East county here in San Diego. Your report finds that there've been more houses built in that area since it lasts, burned, but not much in the way of road improvement or fire safety. Is that right? Speaker 3: 02:55 That's right. So this area, what we found is some of the residents we talked to and some of the fire officials there said that the infrastructure had not improved quickly enough to match the growth in the community. So we heard from a couple of different people that the roads were too narrow, for instance. And only recently did the community get 24 hour fire protection, so there's still some challenges there. So aside from looking at the areas around the state that could be the next paradise. You also examined why it is that in certain neighborhoods some homes survive fires while others don't and your analysis found it had to do with new building codes. Just to be a little more particular about it, we found that homes built since 2008 in the path of the campfire, which is the fire that burned through paradise and neighboring communities. Speaker 3: 03:40 If 51% of those homes since 2008 is the governor was referring to survive the campfire, which was a much higher percentage than those built before then. The reason that 2008 date is important is because that's when the state using these cal fire maps that we use in our analysis instituted stricter building codes and these building codes require a whole lot of things, a litany of things, but among them are thanks to make structures safer. Things like I'm roofing and events that are resistant to embers, which was the cause of a lot of these urban fire sprain. As the wind blows, the embers into the vents are under the roof, the fire catches. Um, so anyway, the, the, the homes that were built after that survived at a higher rate than the homes built before that day. That was the extent of our analysis. So what if someone gets that information, a homeowner has that information, wants to retrofit, is home with a new roof or fire an ember proof fence? Speaker 3: 04:30 Is there any kind of state program that would help them pay for it? You know, I think there's a lot of things under discussion, but um, I think that it is something that the state is talking about right now and it's something that I'm governor nuisance talking about. He referenced it in the clip you suggested. The other conversation of course, is surrounding whether to how much to reduce fuels and how much did thin forests, the balance between doing that and protecting the environment. That's another big ongoing conversation among many to protect these homes. What was the overall purpose of the article destined to burn? Why did your paper and the others take on this issue? Well, we've just seen this large increase in wildfires over the last few years. We covered the campfire. We were the largest media organization nearby, I suppose you'd say. And we wanted to see where else this could happen. Speaker 3: 05:19 And we were just surprised that there were so many places that like paradise, like Malibu in southern California that also had trouble this past year. So much of the town was in these very, very high fire hazard areas. Um, so that was the first thing. And then we also wanted to see what can be done with about it. So we tested our hypothesis that new homes would survive more readily than older homes. And that appeared to be the case in paradise even though there was not a ton of newer homes. It was in the hundreds, um, compared to thousands of older homes. But it still showed this pattern that we, um, that we wrote about. So we wanted to point out the problem and we also wanted give readers a chance to see us possible solution. I've been speaking with a brace, a reporter with the Sacramento Bee who cowrote the investigation titled Destined to burn. And Phillip, thank you. Sure. Thank you.