Churches Reopening With Limits, Virus Concerns Extending Asylum Moratorium At Border Indefinitely, SDPD Continues To Ticket Homeless And Vote-By-Mail Challenge

Speaker 1: 00:00 Services will be restricted as places of worship reopened in San Diego. I'm Mark Sauer with Maureen Kavanaugh. This is KPBS midday edition. It's Tuesday, May 26th Speaker 2: 00:26 in his first covert 19 update of the week, governor Newsome announced guidelines have been issued to allow for the reopening of hair salons and barbershops. The guidelines will apply to counties like San Diego that have been given the go ahead to open up at a faster pace than the state as a whole. Newsome added that the new modification guidelines will be issued in the next few days for summer camps, schools and childcare facilities. The governor also mentioned that statewide modifications were issued yesterday that allow for houses of worship to reopen. Speaker 3: 00:58 We now are affording this opportunity again, uh, with a deep realization, uh, of the fact that people, uh, will start to mix a and B in cohorts of people they haven't been in in the past. And that is incumbent upon us to practice that physical distancing within, uh, these places of worship. Speaker 2: 01:18 He says that modification guidelines will continue to be issued through the next weeks and days Speaker 1: 01:26 and the governor's office this week released guidelines on how services can resume at California, places of worship with more on how some churches in San Diego plan to reopen. I'm joined by Kevin Eckery. He's the vice chancellor for the Roman Catholic diocese of San Diego. Welcome to midday edition. Speaker 4: 01:43 Thanks Mark. I appreciate it. Speaker 1: 01:45 Well, you've seen the governor's guidance on how to reopen churches. That includes a 25% limit on a building's capacity or 100 people, whichever is lower physical distancing masks, no offering plates. What's your reaction to the guidelines? Do they make sense to you? Speaker 4: 02:00 Well, actually they, they make, they make good sense because frankly they were all included in the work we've been doing for the last several weeks. Planning on, on the reopening. I mean the governor's guidelines were, were positive and constructive and they were not so much orders as here's a compiling of best practices that we've seen around the country on these kind of, uh, on these kinds of activities. And we've been drawing from the same sources. So there was really nothing in there that was either a surprise or unwelcome at this stage. Speaker 1: 02:35 And for Catholics in San Diego County, how else might attending church service change in this covert 19 era? Speaker 4: 02:42 Well, it's, you know, this is the new normal. Um, it's, we're not going to go back to the way it was six months a year ago, uh, not for quite a while. So what they're going to find is that, um, mass has changed that, um, we've done, we've taken steps to shorten mass, um, to, to, to minimize people's exposure. So there'll be one reading from the old Testament not to, um, we will, there'll be required to, to have a face mask or face covering when the priest and the people are in the ministers are, are offering communion. They will be, um, uh, masking up themselves and we'll be keeping social distance within the church, uh, and for the first three weeks, which is, wouldn't be extended that 25%, 100 person cap on services. Um, you know, if, assuming that, that we're all managing the opening correctly in the sense that we're, nobody's creating any hotspots. Speaker 4: 03:48 We're not, we're not, um, we're not seeing any reduction in safety, then that will loosen up a little bit in terms of what, uh, the County will have the flexibility to do. Um, the, we're just glad that we're going to be able to open. We're glad that the, so much of the hard work that people have put into to reduce that curve and, and get us to this point has paid off. And I know speaking for, you know, our Bishop that we don't want to have anything to do with adding to the burden on our healthcare system. So the idea of doing this right and doing it safely is been driving us the whole time. I mean, we shut down public masses as a matter of public safety and we're not going to abandon that when it comes time to reopen. Speaker 1: 04:41 And what about choirs and singing? The spend a lot written of course, that, that this is a dangerous activity. Speaker 4: 04:47 No singing. Um, there'll be a, there'll be a Cantor, one person singing that will be, uh, a musician, but there will be no choir. And the congregation, the parishioners will also not be singing either. Um, you figure if in tradition you're supposed to make a joyful noise unto the Lord. And speaking of my own singing talent, I don't think he's ever appreciated. Speaker 1: 05:12 So I don't, Speaker 4: 05:14 I think that, that, that God will be disappointed that some of us aren't singing Speaker 1: 05:19 a blessing to some. Yeah. It could be a blessing. Speaker 4: 05:22 Blessing to everyone around me. Speaker 1: 05:25 Now you mentioned, I was going to say, you mentioned communion. There will be communion then though Speaker 4: 05:31 there will be convenient. Absolutely. I mean, the sacraments are essential, the Catholic faith and um, but there won't be communion, um, by wine. Uh, not out of a shared goblin. There won't be communion, uh, where the priest places the host on someone's tongue that are going to, um, the, the, the minister or the priest who give, gives community or offers communion rather will have on a mask to protect you. Um, and they'll place it in your hand. And then we've also changed the order of mass slightly. That will be at the very end of mass. So to minimize movement within the church and within the sanctuary, as soon as you, uh, have, um, communion, you're free to go. Um, because the idea is that we're going to minimize interaction inside. We're going to minimize movement. We're going to keep everybody at socially distant levels, and we're also going to continue the dispensation, uh, that people have to attend mass every Sunday. Speaker 4: 06:39 So it may be one of those situations where in the Catholic tradition, mass is offered every day. You're celebrated every day. So, uh, perhaps people will attend masses on Saturday or perhaps they'll attend masses, uh, during the week. If there's a, if they're, they're looking to receive communion and we're still fighting that 25%, a 100 person cap on attendance, that that way they can, they can obtain the sacraments, but we can also spread it through the week and not have to, um, put ourselves in a situation where we're turning people away or where people are disappointed that they can't receive the sacraments that are so important to Catholics. Speaker 1: 07:23 Right. That's one way to control the capacity. I mean you're talking about a reservation system or a Speaker 4: 07:29 well, I mean eventually it's going to be up to every, every parish if that becomes the case. For now though, we're looking at first come first serve. I see. Um, Speaker 1: 07:40 go ahead. I was going to say online, Speaker 4: 07:41 try and minimize the, minimize the complications on it. So, uh, later on maybe we'll have to switch to that or maybe people will say, okay, well I'm just going to sign up for Tuesdays or whatever it is, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Speaker 1: 07:56 And LA online streaming services, will they still be available? Speaker 4: 08:00 That's going to continue. Yeah. That we found that to be very, um, very popular and that, um, and that it gives people, certainly not the full experience, but it was something that we were drawing numbers that were close to the number of people who would normally have attend masses. So it's absolutely something that we're going to continue. Speaker 1: 08:25 How soon are we expecting masses to resume? Now? Speaker 4: 08:29 Daily masses could resume as early as the 8th of June at some parishes, but Sunday masses will begin again on the 14th of June. And, um, and the reason for the difference is that, let's face it, you might want to have some practice runs and a sense like, like I said, in the Catholic tradition, there's a mass offered every day. This would give it, give, you know, parishes a chance to, and with their volunteers and with the congregants and the pastor, a chance to just get the bugs out. Um, and then we'll also be spreading the word so people know what the new expectations are and there'll be videos on our website to help, um, you know, inform them as to what the new reality is. So we're, we're anxious to get started. Speaker 1: 09:16 All right. We got about 90 seconds left. I wanted to ask you about other services. Funeral services will be allowed to resume, uh, weddings, baptisms, first communion scheduled for the month of may. Um, what about the other events? Speaker 4: 09:28 Yeah. W everything will, we're, we're going to be open for business. This is the best way to describe it. I don't know if you should describe it church as a business, but we're going to be open first. Convenience. We'll resume in June and July. Um, funerals can be, uh, booked. Now if you, if you talk to your, your pastor, your church office, um, again, again, subject to, um, the 25%, 100, uh, idea in, in, in the short run. But if it can be opened up later on, it will, but it'll still be under very strict social distancing guidelines. Speaker 1: 10:06 And of course, one local church has sued. The governor now wants to take the fight to the Supreme court. But it sounds like, like you, you're happy with the governor's guidelines and you've worked pretty well with officials. Speaker 4: 10:17 Yeah, that hasn't been a problem. I mean, and, and, and I can certainly speak for, for anybody else, but, but in our case, we, we shut down because it was important to public health and that it was important to make sure we weren't contributing to the spread and that we were being careful not just to protect our own parishioners, but to protect, you know, anybody who was a vulnerable California and who might be in touch with someone who had just been to a church service. So, Speaker 1: 10:50 well I, I'm afraid at the cut you off. We're out of time, but I've been speaking with Kevin Ackerley, vice chancellor of the diocese of thanks of San Diego. Thanks very much. Speaker 2: 11:01 This is KPBS mid day edition. I'm Maureen Cavenaugh with Mark sour. While major parts of the economy are reopening amid relaxing health measures, policies along the border first put in place during the pandemic remain extended indefinitely. KPBS reporter max Rivlin Nadler tells us just how drastically the situation along the border has changed and how long we can expect it to remain that way. Speaker 5: 11:25 For three years. The Trump administration has altered longstanding policy towards asylum seekers and migrants along the Southern border. Each new policy cut down the legal pathways people have for reaching the U S to declare asylum, but none quite putting into the system that's been in place since the end of world war two. But on March 17th, the United States announced it would be turning back all asylum seekers along the Southern border, regardless of their country of origin. Within a few hours, they would be returned to Mexico in an effort that the department of Homeland security said was to stop the spread of the Corona virus pandemic. This is unprecedented in its, in its blanket nature and its scope. Hiroshi Mount Tamara is a law professor at UCLA who specializes in immigration law. I mean, I think this administration is tried mightily through much of its tenure to reduce the number of asylum applications. Speaker 5: 12:19 But the bottom line is that this coronavirus situation has given administration and opening to uh, essentially, uh, close the border to asylum cases in a way that it was, I think trying to do but doing it very imperfectly before DHS said it had authority to close the border to asylum seekers because of an order from the centers for disease control allowing DHS to ban entry to the U S to anyone they believe will spread disease. This isn't the first time the U S has used disease as a justification for changing immigration policy. The Chinese exclusion act of 1882 was part of a racist backlash to a smallpox outbreak in San Francisco for the use of public health reasons as pretext or opportunities for more broad based restriction. I think those kinds of developments run pretty deep in American history as far back as the beginning of federal immigration law. Speaker 5: 13:12 But this recent closure of the border has yet to be challenged in court and Matamoros believes that the Trump administration can't unilaterally close the border to asylum seekers based on CDC statute. It's a quarantine statute. It's not a deportation statute. It's not a kind of immigration control statute and public health experts have expressed skepticism that the turnback policy stops the spread of Corona virus, especially as the pandemic hit the United States well before it spread to Mexico and central America. Earlier this month acting DHS secretary Chad Wolf visited San Diego to commend agents that were carrying out the turnback policy. Speaker 6: 13:50 The CDC was very clear with us, uh, with DHS and with CVP is we needed to make sure we did not house those individuals, uh, in our facilities, both for our workforce protection and protection of our DHS officers, protection of the American people and protection of other migrants. Speaker 5: 14:06 Wolf said that 80% of migrants were returned to Mexico within two hours. The same day Wolf spoken San Diego, the Trump administration announced that the turnback policy was now extended indefinitely subject to 30 day reviews. At the same time asylum seeker sent back to Mexico under the remain in Mexico program have seen their court dates in the U S moved back well into 2021. Speaker 7: 14:31 People are absolutely desperate on for on many levels. They're desperate for information. Speaker 5: 14:36 Nicole Ramos is an attorney with [inaudible] illegal organization based in Tijuana that advocates for asylum seekers. They're raising money for prepaid debit cards to give to asylum seekers who need help Speaker 7: 14:50 getting sick. They cannot get Speaker 5: 14:52 help at the general hospital, either in Tijuana or rosary Rido because they're full. And so you have people going and trying to survive Covitz symptoms or COBIT at home and they don't have any access to health care. As the Corona virus continues to ravage both countries, healthcare systems and economies, border barriers between the two continue to go up. San Diego's first new border wall in decades is rising in the old time mountain wilderness. It will likely stay there for years, like possibly many of the policies towards asylum seekers adopted during this turbulent time. Max Rivlin Nadler KPBS news. Speaker 2: 15:34 Joining me is KPBS reporter max Rivlin, Nadler and max. Welcome. Speaker 8: 15:39 Hi. Speaker 2: 15:40 Now tell us more about the situation faced by people waiting into one for their asylum hearings in the U S cause. I imagine these are people who claimed asylum before the Corona virus asylum ban was put in place. So what is their status? Speaker 8: 15:54 Right. So these are people who, even before the Corona virus pandemic had been waiting months into Juana for the most part. These are people who were metered at port of entry, so they had to wait their turn to apply for asylum. And then ultimately when they were returned back to Mexico, they were given a court date back in the U S that, uh, they haven't been able to attend. And so some of these court dates, like I said in the feature, um, have now been extended well into 2021. Uh, people of course need to survive in the meantime during that amount of time. So they need to earn money, they need to find lodging, they need to, um, find education for their kids if possible, or at least childcare. And of course, because we're in such a dismal economic downturn, um, all over the world, um, it's tough for them as well to even find work. So they're finding that they can't work to secure safe place to live or even to find food for their family. And on top of that, of course the pandemic is still very much real in two quad and even more than in San Diego. So it's, it's dismal circumstances for them and very dire circumstances for them when they do find work in the first place. Speaker 2: 17:05 Are any asylum hearings taking place in the U S right now? Speaker 8: 17:09 Yeah. If you were detained in the U S right now, there are hearings going on, so that means you're in ice detention. There are credible fear interviews. There's were interviews, there are interviews taking place right now, but that's only if you are appearing by video from a detention center in the U S of course these detention centers are coronavirus hotspots here in OTM Mesa, we have the largest outbreak in an ice detention center in the United States and until very recently, the site of the only death of an ice detainee inside of an ice facility. So those people are still getting their asylum hearings. It's just the people who either have been sent back to Mexico, people who are out on bond, who are with their families or friends or sponsors and people who have been just banned from entering the country entirely who are no longer having asylum hearings. Speaker 2: 18:02 Now back in mid-March when the asylum ban was ordered, coven 19 hadn't had much of an impact in Baja. So how did the Trump administration justify its belief that asylum seekers would bring in the disease? Speaker 8: 18:17 Yeah, so that's really interesting, right? Cause the timeline doesn't quite square the United States and mid-March was beginning. Its very upward climb and upward trajectory of coronavirus cases, whereas Mexico was still relatively low. And you can look at the hotspots. These were places that had large international travel. Uh, New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Mexico. Just doesn't have that. Of course, a lot of its travelers over the border, uh, through from the U S to Mexico. So, um, a lot of times that's where the virus was actually coming from, from the U S into Mexico. And that was taking place just through normal transit. As we see, um, across the border every single day here, even though technically there is a slow down along the border, still traffic is going back and forth every day. Um, and then on top of that, people were being deported to central America who tested positive for Corona virus. So in the case of several central American countries, their presidents are now blaming the U S for bringing Corona virus to those countries through deportations. Um, so in terms of there being an actual justification at the time that asylum seekers were bringing Corona virus to the U S um, that, that in of itself doesn't really hold water. Looking back in hindsight, Speaker 2: 19:33 well now that Baja in Tijuana are dealing with a significant covert outbreak, supporters of the band must see that as proof that it was a good idea. But, but what have the courts said? Speaker 8: 19:45 The courts have not said anything. Um, mainly because this is a very difficult policy to challenge, right? You need a plaintiff. Um, sometimes if you don't have a plaintiff, you could be in an organization that wants to challenge this. These things take time. This is a novel use of the CDC regulation. So lawyers are researching this on top of that. Um, courts are for the most part, closed federal courts, uh, in civil cases are still hearing them telephonically for the most part. So I wouldn't be surprised if this does get challenged soon enough. It just takes a long time for a legislature, for, for litigation like this to make it to a courtroom. Especially because this is so unprecedented. Speaker 2: 20:28 If the asylum ban is based on that CDC health warning, won't it have to be lifted after the covert 19 pandemic? Speaker 8: 20:36 Yeah, that's really just a question of discretion, right? Because it's based on the CDC health warning, but the CDC health warning itself is extremely general. It's whatever DHS would kind of designate as a place where Corona virus is running rampant. Um, that doesn't necessarily mean you're seeing, you know, massive amounts of numbers like you're seeing in Brazil or the U S it could mean that you're single low amount of numbers, but it's still has Corona virus, right. We didn't, we didn't snuff out Ebola or SARS or MERS, uh, for several years afterwards. We just contained it and were able to kind of mediate, um, risk based off of that. So it's really open to interpretation. And like I said before, I think litigation is what's ultimately gonna have to decide whether, um, this continues or not. Speaker 9: 21:27 Okay. I've been speaking with KPBS reporter max Rivlin, Nadler and max. Thank you so much. Thank you. Speaker 10: 21:39 [inaudible] Speaker 1: 21:41 with no conventions being held, city leaders have transformed the San Diego convention center downtown into a vast shelter for the homeless. At the same time, San Diego police have issued more than twice as many citations to those living on the street as they did at this time last year. Joining me to explain this is reporter Cody Delaney with KPBS news partner. I knew source Cody, welcome to midday edition. Speaker 9: 22:06 Hey, thanks for having me. Speaker 1: 22:08 Well let's start with how big of an increase there's been in San Diego police citations to homeless people and what infractions are they ticketing? Speaker 9: 22:17 Yeah, so there's three infractions that generally target the homeless population. You have vehicle habitation, people sleeping and living in their cars, uh, encroachment or blocking a sidewalk and illegal lodging, which is often used for people sleeping in front of a home or a business. I knew source obtained data that shows tickets for illegal lodging have more than doubled during the pandemic compared to the same time last year. And tickets for blocking a sidewalk and living in a vehicle are also up as well. Speaker 1: 22:49 And what is the police department's purpose in ticketing the homeless? Say for blocking the sidewalk? Speaker 9: 22:55 Please say they are only ticketing people who refuse to move along. Um, and I talked to police captain Scott Wall for the story and he said the goal of ticketing is to gain compliance. You know, get people to move along, quit blocking a sidewalk or take advantage of available resources such as, you know, safe parking lots for people who are sleeping in a car or the convention center for those who are sleeping on the streets. Um, but the department has also started holding tickets and not filing for people who agreed, agree to take help. So for those people who agree to take help, it, it won't even show up on the record. Police say, Speaker 1: 23:33 now the mayor has been asked about these citations at the daily press briefings more than once. What does Kevin Faulkner have to say about it? Speaker 9: 23:40 Yeah, reporters have asked mayor Faulkner directly about this issue, at least four, and he's largely avoided answering the question. Uh, instead he repeats the same message that the city's approach to the unsheltered homeless population is about encouragement to seek help, encouragement to get them off the streets. And it's not about enforcement, Speaker 1: 24:00 but the idea from the beginning of the pandemic and the, and the lockdown a few months back was of course to keep the number of deaths down among this population. And, um, and of course the number of cases, Speaker 9: 24:12 the goal for opening the convention center was to increase the number of people that homeless service providers can help and also increase social distancing requirements, right. For these homeless shelters, the state mandates a minimum of three feet. Uh, you go into the convention center there, there's space that there's hundreds of cots that are spaced about six feet apart. So it was to increase the number of people they can serve and also meet the, meet the state mandates for distancing and homeless shelters. Speaker 1: 24:44 What do homeless people have to say about the police issuing so many citations for illegal lodging? Now there there's different opinions there, right? Speaker 9: 24:52 Yeah. Um, I've talked to people who flat out don't see the, don't see the point. Uh, they, they think it's, you know, adding insult to injury. They don't have anywhere else to go. Uh, and you're just piling on top of them. And then I've, I've talked to other people who are struggling with drugs and alcohol addictions and they understand that while they are part of the problem, part of the eyesore as they call it, they do what they can to keep to themselves, not cause any problems. And uh, but they understand, they understand the police have a job to do and they understand that they are an obstacle and getting people off the streets. So it's, it's an interesting dichotomy. Speaker 1: 25:33 And what are the regulations regarding sleeping on the streets? I mean, people are down there sleeping every night. Uh, but there's a time restriction. Right, Speaker 9: 25:42 right. Yeah. And that that comes down to illegal lodging that I talked about previously or sleeping in front of a home or a business. There was an agreement reached in 2011 and a lawsuit against the city brought on behalf of homeless people. And that agreement allows people to sleep on the sidewalks between 9:00 PM and 5:30 AM and generally avoid illegal lodging tickets. And yeah, come five 30 police are going through the East village of downtown waking people up, telling them to get moving. And I actually saw this on one early morning drive. I took two observed police interactions. I witnessed an officer parked in front of somebody at 5:29 AM and one minute later the officer was out of the car nudging the person awake. And this happens despite guidelines from the centers of disease control and prevention that say people should be allowed to stay where they are during the pandemic unless individual housing can be provided. But when you talk to police, they say, look, we can't allow people to live in unsafe and unsanitary conditions. We saw what happened in 2017 with the hepatitis a outbreak. So from the police perspective, they, they've got to get people moving. They can't let these encampments build up. It's unsafe and unsanitary. Speaker 1: 26:55 Now the convention center, it's a pretty big place. How many homeless people are sheltered there now? And how is it organized to provide for the homeless during this crisis? Speaker 9: 27:03 Yeah, the number of people who were sheltered at the convention center changes day to day. People come, people go. But right now there's right around 1200 people sheltering there every night. Um, and three of the city's largest homeless service providers are operating at the convention center. You have alpha project, father Joe's villages and veterans village of San Diego, and each has control of their own area. Uh, you have breakfast, lunch and dinner, serve daily. And I was actually given a tour of the alpha project side. And on that side they have hundreds of cots. As I mentioned earlier, each of them spaced out about six feet apart on one side of the room. And then on the other side of this giant room, you have tables for people to eat and watch TV. Uh, and they even have trailers hauled into the loading bays for people to take showers and wash their clothes. So it's a, it's a very big operation they have going on over there. Speaker 1: 28:00 And yet you've talked to some people who really don't want to stay in the convention center. What's their complaint about it? Speaker 9: 28:06 Yeah, so I had a chance to talk to the alpha project CEO about this issue and you know, they, they closed the doors every night at eight o'clock, lights out at 11. And you know, if you talk to some of the people who are struggling with drug and alcohol issues on the streets, making sure that they get what they need before doors closed would be at the top of their mind and yeah, the alpha project said dealing with that is an issue and they are having to search people's belongings. If there's a suspicion of drug use and giving people an option, if anything is found, Hey, you can stay but we take the drugs from you or you can leave and you can keep your drugs. So that that has been an issue. Speaker 1: 28:50 What does it cost the city to run this operation at the convention center? Speaker 9: 28:54 Right now what I've been told is it's costing about two point $7 million per month just to operate the convention center as a homeless shelter. Speaker 1: 29:05 Well, I'd been speaking with, I knew source reporter Cody Delaney. Thanks very much Cody. Speaker 9: 29:10 Thank you again for having me. Speaker 2: 29:12 This is KPBS mid day edition. I'm Maureen Kavanaugh with Mark Sauer. Early this month, governor Newsome issued an executive order requiring counties in California to send vote by mail ballots. To all registered voters for this November's election. Newsome said the order was to protect the public from potential covert 19 health risks involved in voting at a polling place. The order is now being challenged by three Republican groups as well as the conservative group judicial watch with San Diego's 50th district Republican candidate Darryl ISAT, as one of the plaintiffs. The lawsuits take issue with Newsome's authority to mandate the order and claims it violates state law and the us constitution. Joining me is that Couser, he's chair of the political science department at UC San Diego and Thad. Welcome back to the show. Thanks so much for having me, Maureen. Now judicial watch is basing its lawsuit on the fact that the constitution says only state legislatures have the authority to determine the quote times, places, and manner unquote of holding elections. So why does the governor claim he had the authority to issue this vote by mail directive? Well, governor Speaker 11: 30:25 specifically cited a California government code that gives the governor broad powers to make executive orders, especially in times a, a state of a war or a state of emergency. And you're seeing this all across the country where governors had to step in commerce like a governor Cuomo. Gavin Newsome has done this and many other executive orders, especially at the time when the legislature wasn't meeting, they've stepped in and used executive branch authority to make many emergency proclamations. I think what's different in California is that the governor is strong cooperation of a legislature in a lot of these right, uh, that, that the legislature is not fighting him. Um, and in fact, he said in his executive order, he now wants to work with the legislature to and the secretary of state to figure out how to make elections work. But there is this legal question and I'm not a law professor that will be debated about whether this exceeds the governor's emergency powers or whether it fits exactly within them. Speaker 2: 31:20 Well, indeed, in answering a question about this lawsuit during his last news conference, Newsome said, well, basically you said the question seems to be moot because the legislature would be behind him if indeed a court rule that the legislature had to make this decision and not him. So from a political point of view, what would filing a lawsuit like this do for a conservative causes or indeed for a candidate like Daryl Leisa? Speaker 11: 31:47 Well, I think there is, uh, first of all just that there are other grants to, to one of the lawsuits, uh, in addition to this, this question of the balance of power. But I think also a lawsuit like this may be filed in order to, to make a point and, and, and lay out an initial argument. So we're still trying to figure out how hold an election during a pandemic, what governor Newsome's executive branch executive order said was send a ballot to vote by mail for every registered voter in the state, but legislatures, uh, local registrars, we want to work together over the next month or two to come up with a plan to provide in-person voting options for those who need and demand it, which even though most Californians want to vote by another, still up lots of people who for many legitimate reasons want to have an in option. And so there's still a lot of debate about what those impersonal options might look like. And this may, these lawsuits, I don't want to speak for those who follow them, but they may be in part trying to influence that process as well as, as the legal question. Speaker 2: 32:53 Sticking with mail, voting by mail for just a moment. Does mail in ballot, does male voting favor one party over another? Speaker 11: 33:02 Absolutely not. In California, in our long history of voting by mail, we have a strong record showing that it doesn't advantage one party over another. So there's a new study just published in a prominent journal that shows, is California phased in, uh, this model of voting through vote by mail ballots and vote centers? We've seen absolutely no change in, in the democratic versus Republican share of who turns out and who people vote for. And in a new study that a group of UC professors and I just released on Friday in a large poll of California in done in April, we find that Republicans are just as likely as Democrats to say, I want to vote by mail in this selection. Speaker 2: 33:43 So why does it seem that Republicans from president Donald Trump, but to the Republican national committee, to the Republicans in the Senate, they are the ones who are fighting, making Malin voting more broadly acceptable throughout the States. Speaker 11: 34:00 You know, there's a split within the Republican party. Uh, president Trump has been talking a lot about voting by mail and, and he has outracing evidence or, or clear points. He's, he's, he's said that it can lead to fraud and, but it's not that one. It has, we haven't seen, we've seen vanishingly small rates of voter fraud done through voting by mail. The one that was done was fewer Republican, uh, to help a Republican candidate in a North Carolina congressional race. But there are lots of Republican elections officials and governors and state legislators that are moving towards having more vote by mail option CC, red States, as well as blue States expanding this option because people, both parties demand it. And so this has led the president to be at odds. So last week he was tweaked being attacking the Republican secretary of state in Nevada for expanding vote by voting by mail in that state. So it's not a unified red and blue thing, and certainly among Republican voters in California, it's something that's strongly supported. Speaker 2: 35:01 Now we spoke to the San Diego County register of voters, Michael VU, just after the governor announced his mailing ballot plan. This is what he said on the issue of fraud Speaker 12: 35:12 in our, in our County, in our state. Let me just talk about San Diego County. As they mentioned before. 70, we're in the 70th percentile in terms of people that are voting by mail. I haven't seen any systemic issues with a fraudulent activity occurring with a vote by email. Uh, there are a number of safeguards in place associated with voting by mail. Speaker 2: 35:32 And what are some of those safeguards that, Speaker 11: 35:35 well, the most important safeguard is your signature. So whenever you first registered to vote, your signature, when on file went to your County registrar's office. And when you send in a vote about, they will compare that against that signature. Um, in fact, you know, one thing people worry about is, is it too many vote by mail ballots about 1% are thrown out because the signature doesn't match because maybe our signatures change every year, but that makes it almost impossible to take someone's ballot, sign it a fraudulent and send it back in. There's that signature check is hard work done by registrar's office. That is a strong safe card. Speaker 2: 36:11 Now, Darryl, as I said, as I said, who is, uh, one of the plaintiffs in this lawsuit challenging the mail in ballots? He in particular, he was helped in the March election by the number of mail in ballots that were sent in and the 50th district. So it seems like a contradiction. San Diego already has a great reliance on mailing ballots. How do you think mailing voting impacts the 50th district race in particular? Speaker 11: 36:37 Well, one of the things that we see, uh, with Malin ballots in this election, right during this pandemic when people's health is, are threatened, especially to help them senior citizens, is, is that for older and older voters, they're more and more enthusiastic about casting a ballot. Denounce you say what's your first preference? What's the way you want to cast your bounce? Sending it in by the mail? Uh, about 39% of young voters say they want to send it in and then more people want to drop it off, but about 67% of senior citizen voters. So I think they're going to be a lot of voters. And you also see voters, rural areas embracing voting by mail. So I think there will be a lot of voters in the 50th district, perhaps a Daryl ISIS base who will favor folding by mail. And so I think this movement to the governor's executive order, which creates both in-person options but also sends a vote by mail ballot to every voter that will help a lot of voters in the city in the 50th who may actually be casting about for their license. Speaker 2: 37:38 And finally my last question about this in person voting, because you're right, the governor didn't say everybody has to vote by mail. He also directed in-person voting sites to be made safer for people who want to go to the polls. How is in person voting going to change? I think what we're Speaker 11: 37:56 going to see is a move from the in-person voting at smaller precincts in your neighbor's garage to the input to the in person voting that we see now that about half of the state practices, which is through what's called the vote centers. So rather than going to your neighbor's garage, you'll be going to maybe a school auditorium or a larger commercial site building or something run by the registrar. Uh, that'll be open for three or 10 days before the election. There'll be more people there, but with more time and, and fewer of these spread out around the County, you're going to have the ability to have better social distancing practices, uh, and, and all of the things that registrars are working on in order to make, uh, accessible voting, a safe thing and be able to spread people out. So we'll see fewer and further between, uh, bill, uh, opportunities to vote in person. But those opportunities will be a little bit more professional in a little bit larger, a physical space. And that is how elections officials are trying to be the challenge of covenant. Speaker 13: 38:56 I have been speaking with the cows or chair of the political science department at UC San Diego fad. Thanks very much. Thanks so much for having me. Speaker 1: 39:08 Well, many San Diego restaurants are reopened for in house dining this week. The last couple of months have dramatically changed the restaurant industry here and that's made it hard for the San Diego seafood industry to stay afloat. KPBS science and technology reporter Shaylene a chant Lonnie says businesses may get some relief from a government stimulus package, but how quickly they can bounce back may depend on the types of fish they supply. Speaker 13: 39:36 At San Diego's Dockside tuna Harbor market on a recent Saturday, hundreds of people line up along the pier. They're here to get their hands on some fresh fish caught and butchered by local fishermen. Jordan CAS Lunger is a third generation fishermen in San Diego. She's spending more time here than usual now since she lost her city job at a seafood restaurant in March, Speaker 14: 39:59 I became unemployed at the ripe age of 23 Speaker 13: 40:03 casts. Longer says fishermen can't sell to restaurants or processors because most of them have closed seafood also isn't a popular takeout item Speaker 14: 40:11 if they're still open. It's just really limited to what and how much they're taking. So the market has been the biggest export of of where we can sell our stuff. And then there's also the problem of species. So our biggest thing that people will ask for that we don't have is salmon. We don't have it down here. Speaker 13: 40:26 This six years old market is busier than ever as consumers opt for a larger batch of fresh seafood over frozen products from the grocery and cast longers has, consumers are willing to try different types of fish that the fishermen are able to catch right now. That's a relief for fishermen. But she admits this once a week. Market and willingness to try different species may not last. Speaker 14: 40:47 Fresh fish isn't cheap and cheap fish isn't fresh. So I hope that it continues to stay as interesting for people and that interest is key Speaker 13: 40:57 because those processors and distributors that fishermen rely on for the majority of their sales are already hurting. It says, Gavin Gibbons, an executive at the seafood trade group, the national fisheries Institute. Speaker 11: 41:08 We're seeing companies reporting losses of uh, you know, tens and hundreds of millions of dollars already. Speaker 13: 41:16 Federal statistics show the national seafood industry sees around $140 billion in commercial sales annually. And 70% of that comes through restaurants given says, the problem is that most distributors normally sell expensive species to those restaurants and they can't just sell those fish to canned pet food processors because they won't be able to cover their costs. Also, some fish is only sold to suppliers in bulk, but that can't happen now Speaker 11: 41:43 that there is not enough cold storage space to hold every piece of Pollock and every piece of salmon that comes out of the water in Alaska. I can't load up this boat and bring it to, um, to a producer or processor or who's going to tell me I can't take your product because it's perishable. Speaker 13: 41:59 In late March, Congress passed and the president signed a two point $2 trillion coronavirus stimulus bill with 300 million destined for fisheries and seafood businesses. California is getting 18 million of that Speaker 11: 42:10 just now being distributed to States and it hasn't even begun to reach seafood companies yet. Speaker 15: 42:18 It was just so humiliating. We're a small business, we're like a family and having to give them that packet with the unemployment information, so it was really hard. They kind of knew it was coming, but not so quickly. Speaker 13: 42:31 San Diego seafood inc normally sources and supplies tens of thousands of pounds of seafood to restaurants a week owner Kathy string man sits by her backyard pool and reflects on March one her business dropped to only a couple hundred pounds of fish. Speaker 15: 42:46 We would have been negative 15 $20,000 a day Speaker 13: 42:50 after crunching the numbers she said they had to close. She applied for an economic injury. Disaster loan right away, Speaker 15: 42:56 one load of halibut say you buy 2000 pounds and that's $22,000 a lot of money to invest if you can't move that product off. Now other industries like pet food, they use sardines, anchovies that aren't really used all the time on them. Center plate. Speaker 13: 43:10 When she finally got notified this month that our loan application had gone through. She says it's less than what she'd asked for, but that it's enough to get started up again. She says she'll need to work on coronavirus safety guidelines and begin sourcing fresh seafood again. But after being in the business for so long, she's prepared and eager to get started. She recalls one memory when she knew that she'd be in this for the long haul. Speaker 15: 43:31 So even with my oldest, he'd come home and he'd say, mommy, you stink. I'm like, it smells like money. Okay. This Speaker 13: 43:38 is our livelihood. This is what's going to raise you. In the meantime, she hopes the San Diego fishing family can get through this pandemic together, showcasing their talents like they do at the Dockside market. Shalina, Shalani K PBS news.