S1: It's time for Midday Edition on KPBS. In honor of Father's Day , we've got a panel joining us to talk about the meaning of fatherhood and what it takes to build a supportive village for yourself and your child. Here's to conversations that keep you informed and inspired and make you think. We'll talk about the challenges of connecting with other dads.
S2: Finding ways to connect with other dads. To have a sense of community in terms of what you're dealing with , the joys as well as the struggles is pretty tricky.
S1: Then we'll talk about resources for parenting and how rewarding fatherhood is. That's ahead on Midday Edition. There's a special day coming up this weekend. Sunday is Father's Day , and becoming a dad can be a joyful , life changing experience that really allows you to see the world through a new lens , the lens of your child. But it can also be a challenge , especially when you feel like you have no idea what you're doing and no one to bounce things off of. So we're going to talk about how dads can build deeper connections with their children and one another. I have a panel of guest here to explore that. Joining me now is Daniel Beasley. He's director of the center for Men's Excellence and a psychologist based in San Diego. He's also a dad of two sons who are now 20 and 17. Daniel , welcome.
S2: Hi , Jade , thanks for having me.
S1: So glad you're here. Also , Aldrin , long as he's a new father who recently took an expectant dads course from the center for Men's Excellence. His son is four and a half months old. Aldrin , welcome and congratulations.
S3: Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. I'm excited.
S1: Also , Aaron West with the Dad Core program from San Diego nonprofit Sei San Diego. His girls are seven , three and six months old. Aaron , congratulations and welcome to you too. Yes.
S4: Thank you for having me.
S1: Well , happy Father's Day to you all. And it's so great to have you here. First , I want to talk about the definition of fatherhood. I mean , it can mean a lot of different things. Dan.
S2: Yeah , absolutely. Typically the first thing that comes to mind is a biological father of a child. And of course , that's a very important element of fatherhood , but we really have to be coming at a more inclusive approach that signifies father figures , very important uncles in some ways , mentors like coaches or really attended next door neighbors. There are a lot of different ways that that folks can enact that father or father figure role.
S1: And Aldrin , you're a new father. How would you define fatherhood , and has your definition changed since you recently became a dad ? Just under six months ago.
S3: I think the biggest change is that it's not the relationship with your child. It's also the relationship , you know , with your wife or with your partner. You know , um , my wife just gave birth and she needs a lot of , you know , physical and emotional support and that I was not prepared for. I didn't know how much work it would be just to keep up and maintain your marriage , in addition to keeping up and maintaining your relationship with your child. So it's a lot of work. Fatherhood is very expensive. Aaron.
S1: Aaron.
S4: Um , fatherhood is definitely a privilege. Um , it's an awesome , awesome experience. But it's on the job training , right ? So there's there's not necessarily a manual for it , but , um , you know , if you get around the right people and , and you have the right stuff , you can be a great dad. And even if you don't , um , you can always learn , right ? So mistakes happen , but so , so do victories. Take them one by day , one , one day at a time.
S1: This is true. And on that topic of learning , Aldrin , you took part in the Expectant Dads course at the center for Men's Excellence , where Dan is the director.
S3: And so I said , okay , it's worth a shot. And so I , I looked it up online and I found Dan's website and his course , and I said , you know what ? It looks like it's a quick three hour session on Saturday. You know , it can't hurt to learn , you know , from someone who probably has a lot more experience than me. So I signed up for it , and I'm glad I did.
S1: Well , I feel like there's this assumption that we should just all know how to be parents automatically , inherently. And , you know , as a result , sometimes there's a stigma around programs like this.
S3: And so people's reactions were , oh , they teach you that at the hospital those courses are free. You can go ahead and take them. You're in a classroom with people. Yeah. You didn't need to pay for this extra course. And so what I tell them is what made this course different was it was a focus on fatherhood specifically that yes , at the basics , but it was teaching you how to be a dad emotionally , like how to have a relationship with your wife , how to have a relationship with their child , and how to deal with these hurdles. That go beyond the everyday tasks of raising a baby.
S1: Yeah , it's a lot more than what you would think on the surface. Dan.
S2: And , um , two things I wanted to add earlier. Aldrin , you made the point about how it's not just your relationship with the child that happens and changes , but there are all kinds of changes that happen in your relationship with your partner. And you realize that , that she needs your support. And one of the areas that we cover repeatedly in the expected dads class is dads need support , too. The problem is we're used to thinking of fatherhood as protect , provide sacrifice , and nobody really parent educators , certainly not parent education , as usual in a hospital , tends to tell these dads , hey , man. Yeah , like provide support for your partner and you're probably going to need some support. And that support probably goes beyond just what your partner might be able to provide for you. And so in the class , we talk about dads and self-care and keeping the relationship strong and so forth. Hmm.
S1: Hmm.
S4: Um , I was like , like most other gentlemen , um , I wasn't aware that , uh , parenting classes existed that primarily focused on on fatherhood. And so , uh , I was able to find Dads Corp. It was an eight week parenting course. Um , a gentleman by the name of Jorge Navarro. I want to say his last name is. He just made the course sound like , amazing. He made it sound like a community of fathers. He made it sound like a great experience , and he made it sound like a safe space for fathers , not only to learn , but to just kind of , like , bounce ideas off one another. Um , I fell in love with the program and an opportunity became available , and I applied for the job. And so now I'm a case manager and a facilitator at Das Corp. Right. And so our curriculum talks a lot about that. Uh , it talks about fatherhood , but before fatherhood , it really gets into manhood. And so at the time , um , my wife was pregnant with our , um , our three year old when I was taking the course. And , um , it changed. Everything changed for me tremendously because of the curriculum and the the bonds that I still hold with those gentlemen today. Um , my seven year old is , is , uh , is was before my marriage. So that even helped me with co-parenting strategies and co-parenting techniques that I'm still using today. Um , and just that dynamic within itself. So I definitely think that taking these courses and taking these classes , it allows us to really tap into , uh , you know , a variety of ideas and a variety of , uh , exchanges that a lot of us men need and , and particularly to feel safe in those spaces to make mistakes and learn at the same time. Right.
S1: Right. Well , and I also want to note that the dad court program you mentioned is through local nonprofit Safe San Diego. Well , Dan , um , let's talk a bit more about your parenting course a bit , too. And some of the philosophies you get into , like , for example , rather than masculinity , you say you prefer the term masculinities. I'm wondering if you can talk to us more about why that distinction matters to you , and how fatherhood plays into how we define masculinity or masculinities.
S2: So I do research on early fatherhood or the dude to dad transition , and we talk about masculinities as a way to draw attention to the fact that it's not just one monolithic trait , it's multi-dimensional. There is nuance. If I were going to point to a bisexual Asian American man living in the Bronx , and compared to a cis head white guy living in Southern California , they're going to have very different aspects of their lives in general , but they also apply to how I've learned about myself as a man , how I've learned about what it what it means to be a man. And that translates directly into different ideas about what it means to be a father. Like when we first started looking at father involvement , the research really only looked at does the father cohabitate , you know , live with partner and baby , and does he contribute resources ? And those are both important elements of fatherhood. And they're directly in line with the whole protect provide thing. However , these days fatherhood I see , is kind of the tip of the spear in terms of how masculinities are evolving. And we expect fathers to be around and to be engaged and to be involved. But it's not just , you know , money and protection. There's that , but it's also being a. Freely available. Playing with their children , taking them to errands. Taking them to , you know , attending , taking part in doctor's visits. You know , it boils down to parenting. And so being being more multi-dimensional about what it means to be a man directly translates into acknowledging that that we expect more and different engagement from fathers , including fathers of babies these days.
S1: Yeah , and this is something all of you all can chime in on. You know , over the years , the norms around what it means to be a good father have have changed quite a bit , as you laid out.
S2: We could throw around that , but generally speaking , people are agreeing dads should be more involved , but the models really aren't there for fathers of babies. And that's what I really would like to see. Sure , we're some dads in the 60s super involved 100%. They were the exception though , and these days it really throws fathers for a loop when they're like , I know I'm supposed to be right in there , you know , during the birth and early postpartum and so forth. But what's that supposed to look like in a way that acknowledges being a traditional guy guy while also wearing a baby and and accepting my partner's influence in some ways about about how to parent ? It's the modeling piece that I'm that I'm really focused on. We need more of that for fathers of babies. Yeah.
S1: And I feel like part of that comes from being able to bounce things off of one another , having support groups and networks.
S3: I'm in a unique situation to where amongst my friends , I'm the first one to have a baby. So it's it's crazy. Like I have all these new experiences and , you know , my friends are they understand. They're like , oh yeah , that must be super exciting for you. But it's not like you can share share stories with them saying , yeah , I remember when my kid this and my kid did that , it's because I'm the first one , you know , taking the plunge into having a baby. And so sometimes , like we've alluded to , you feel a certain way. Sometimes you're super happy or sometimes you're just , you know , super sad and you want to know why. And so it's good to know that you have a network of people that you can talk to who are in your same situation , especially first time dads. One of the things that came out of the class that I took with Dan was our cohort of five of us said , okay , you know what ? It's a good idea if we keep in touch because as we keep in touch as we go on this journey , we'll all be on the same path. We'll all be on the same developmental timeline. So it's at least someone that you can reach out to and talk to. And that's a great resource to have.
S1:
S2: So it's really lovely for me to hear what Aldrin had to say about , hey , I connected with the other dads in the class because we have this whole thing in common about developmentally where we are. But when you start looking at some of the traditional sort of mommy and me groups or stroller strides and so forth , there are usually not fathers there. And so finding ways to connect with other dads , to have a sense of community in terms of what you're dealing with , the joys as well as the struggles is pretty tricky. And so I just wanted to name that. It's one aspect of of the transition to fatherhood that's different. And several colleagues of mine have written about becoming a father as an inflection point. And one of the inflections is a real difficulty maintaining friendships , and is true that at the onset of parenthood , men who typically have more but more superficial relationships in terms of friendships oftentimes will just sort of focus inwardly on their on their partner , on their baby , and might let some of those other friendships that could be super supportive , that may or may not be dads , um , but they let them sort of wither. And we've seen over and over again , having other kinds of support , including just from buddies and friends , is is really , really helpful in the transition to parenthood and reflects a different , sometimes more accessible kind of of community for these dads. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. You mentioned the , um , sort of stroller gatherings that happen in some places I know in places like Texas , they have a very large , uh , stroller gathering for just the fathers and their , their children to , to sort of congregate and go for walks.
S2: Like there's another outfit in town called San Diego City Dads Group. That's not early fatherhood , per se. Um , I'm very familiar with with Aaron's outfit , say , San Diego and the Dads Corps. And , um , know that you all have resources too. Um , one resource that I'm familiar with because I do the facilitating. I work with a nonprofit called Postpartum Support International and our website's postpartum net. And for the past ten years or so , on the first Monday of every month at 5:00 Pacific , I facilitate. It's an old school. It's just a phone call. It's not even like dads getting together in the park , but you call in and these are fathers who have babies. They're struggling , their partners are struggling. And it reflects a kind of , you know , conference call community. And now some of these ads have been calling in for , you know , the past few years or so. Like , I wish I could tell you here's where the San Diego fathers of babies get together , but I am. I would love to hear if Aldrin and Aaron knows something I don't.
S1:
S3: I mean , I actually don't know outside outside of what I've just mentioned today , I haven't been exposed to these opportunities. I haven't been , you know , given like an email or advertisements saying , hey , are you a new dad who's wants to meet up with other new dads like that doesn't come in my inbox ? That hasn't come on my social media feeds. So it's very hard to find.
S1: So how are you building friendships with other dads ? Share your experience. We'd love to hear it. Give us a call at (619) 452-0228. You can leave a message or you can email us at midday at pbs.org. Coming up , we'll talk more about a class helping generations of fathers become better parents.
S4: A father brought his father to the class and when he told us was that , he said , hopefully you're raising someone that you will want to be friends with. Hopefully you're raising someone that you will want to want to have a relationship with as an adult.
S1: More on that when we return. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. Welcome back to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Father's day is coming up this Sunday. So today on the show , we're diving into how to build meaningful connections between fathers and their children. I'm speaking with Daniel B singly. He's director of the center for Men's Excellence and a psychologist based here in San Diego. Also , Aldrin says he's a new father who recently took an expectant dads course from the center for Men's Excellence and Aaron West with the Dad Core program from San Diego nonprofit Sei San Diego. And I want to jump back , circle back to just making connections. How should fathers do that ? Sometimes it seems like it's it's like a tricky territory for dads. They they meet other dads. My husband , for example , will take my daughter to the playground and he'll meet other dads out there on the playground. And they never exchange information. It never dawns on them to do that. Um , can you talk a bit more about about how fathers can connect.
S2: It is hard to meet other grown men. Like there's an SNL skit about about the Man Park and their partners taking them there , and kind of like putting him in this confined space and being like , hey , go talk to him. You like video game , you know , like , funny because it's true. Um , you know , the US surgeon general released a report on on the epidemic of loneliness. And middle aged men are some of the most isolated people in the country in that sense. And it gets worse and worse when these are factoring in , you know , different kinds of abilities or men of color or STDs and so forth. But the the prospect of developing new friendships or deepening existing friendships brings fathers and men in general up against some important aspects of the bro code. You know , if you act like you like somebody and you want to know more deeply , well , then all of a sudden you're needy or , you know , there's something about you that , you know , you're just kind of clingy. And the reality is that fathers , right , when they start having babies , tend to have fewer and fewer opportunities to connect to people. The irony is that having a baby and having a toddler , there are all these opportunities. Like JD were saying , your your husband goes to the park and like chats with these other with all these other dads , but they don't necessarily. Exchange information. We'll think about what ? Like pulling digits from another dude means in terms of awkwardness or or anxiety on the face of it. It's totally natural. It's cool. Like , hey , we can go to a park sometime and like , take our babies. But the men that I work with , certainly in our practice , that's a that's a pretty tall mountain because , you know , bro , dating and finding other guys to connect with. You're flying in the face of some pretty rigid , traditional aspects of masculinity. The problem is it's totally healthy. And so I encourage all these dads to do it.
S1: Right , right. Well , I was going to ask because , I mean , how do you navigate that ? How do you destigmatize that whole experience , the awkwardness , all of it.
S2: There's not a way around the awkwardness. You got to just kind of bring it with you. It's one of the things that really for men in general , people in general , but I'm focused generally on the men and the fathers. I tell them , when you're going through a major life transition. Don't be isolated. And isolated doesn't mean you're not around people. It means you're not actually connecting with them. You're not stopping and and really kind of getting down with them and becoming a father is absolutely one of those. And I've heard it all at this point in 20 plus years of working with expectant and new dads , I'm too busy. Um , I feel guilty because I don't want to abandon my partner , who's been up all night and is exhausted and has cracked nipples , and I can't go off and and I've heard it all. But at the end of the day , there really is not an exception to we all Need Buddies.
S1:
S4: I think people partner how they're parenting. A lot of times you can see as you get older , the way that children were , were reared , how they engage with other people , how they pick their partners , how they date other people. And so that's something I really try to pay attention to , especially having three girls. And you can often see , you know , just in children about how they get upset with , um , with tantrums. Right ? Do they throw things , do you throw things right. So those are the things that you really want to be cognitive of. Um , so I think that , you know , um , me being a 32 year old man now , um , I had the pleasure of meeting my dad at 28. Right ? So I missed all of that stuff with him. But now I'm able to have that relationship with him. But growing up , I know that I needed him to affirm me. Right. And so after all these years , now I do have that from him. Now I do have that relationship with him. So I definitely think that who you grow up with , who you expose your children to , or who you expose your children with it , it makes a great indicator for the future , right ? And just who you are as a person , right ? Um , one of the dads in our program , he actually bought his dad. So he was a new dad that I had never happened before. Uh , a father brought his father to the class , and when he told us was that , he said , hopefully you're raising someone that you will want to be friends with. Hopefully you're raising someone that you will want to want to have a relationship with as an adult. Right. And that kind of struck me because I was like , man , wow. You know , I hope that I am raising people that I want to be friends with in the future. So.
S1:
S3: Like I understand why he did everything that he did. For example , my dad was trying to introduce me into a lot of baseball because my dad was a big baseball fan. So he would get me baseball cards , put baseball player posters in my room. But I wasn't into baseball like , so I was I didn't find it very exciting or anything. And so I kept wondering why why he just kept doing this , and he kept trying to expose it to me. It wasn't clicking. And now when I have a son , like , say , oh , here are the things I like. I want to show you everything that I like so you can like you too. And that's when it clicked , like , oh , my dad just wants to share something with me. And so sure , it didn't work , but it was out of the goodness of his heart where he thought , okay , well , maybe we can share something together. You know , this didn't work , but there will be other things and other opportunities later in life. So I appreciate what my dad was trying to do.
S1:
S2: I definitely see connections between experiences we have in our families of origin and then how we grow and develop relationships , romantic ones as well as with our own children. And I agree with with everything that Aaron and Aldrin have have pointed out. What I would add is that I think it's important to be aware. I see a lot of dads who they either didn't have a dad around. And or the father or father figures that they did have around had some problems in areas of difficult. It's called father hunger. If you ask somebody , hey , what did your own father father figure do that you want to to emulate as a debt ? If the answer is nothing , or I want to do everything different than than what was done for me , it's called Father Hunger. And some of these dads have real deep seated questions about kind of like I'm damaged goods , like , look what I had as the model. So I'm at some level believing I'm not going to be able to be a good dad. And that is not true. We all experience our own. Family cultures , which can include difficult experiences or traumas. But what I want folks to understand is that , sure , we might we might grow up to then jump into relationships that are about us trying to fix some of the issues that that we experienced in relationships when we were little or , you know , finding relationships that are familiar to how we felt , if not entirely comfortable. And so , yes , of course , like we we live in family systems that persist over time. However , if you didn't have the most positive experience with your own father or father figure , that doesn't mean that you don't have a lot to offer your parent and your baby. And I , I just strongly encourage dads to be involved and what that looks like in your family. And it can be very , very different from what it looks like next door or what it looked like in your own child. It's the only thing I stand on , like as a dad , don't be uninvolved. And that begins with conception and the and the pregnancy and being there at the birth and and being hands on with your baby. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , and you mentioned Father Hunger. Can you talk a bit more about what that is and how it impacts how some fathers may raise their children ? Yes.
S2: So the idea of father hunger derives from the sense that either I didn't have the father or I didn't have the father that I wanted. Um , and or my father may have been a source of some , some kind of trauma for me and , and as , as young people , as children. We internalize that. And as I say , it can either be something where I absorb that and say like , okay , well , that's that's the father identity that I might enact intentionally or unconsciously , or I might react completely against that. And part of what I find interesting about this is oftentimes when you when you start looking at this kind of multi-generational experience , a lot of it is under the radar , a lot of it is subconscious. And so that sense of , well , my father or father figure really did not enact the kind of fatherhood that I want to and go along with a pretty deep seeded belief that , well , if I'm about to be a father , I'm going to be a bad one. And that can force or cause some of these dads to to pull back and to not be engaged and involved , which can be very confusing given the expectation today generally , that that fathers will be more involved than , than they have been in the past.
S1: Well , Aaron , you mentioned earlier that you didn't meet your own father until later in life. Tell me more about how that shaped your approach to fatherhood.
S4: Well , you know , I'd actually never heard of that term by Dan , um , alluded to earlier , as far as Father hunger , 100% , I was I was hungry for my father. I was hungry for answers. I was hungry for him to be there. But , um , he wasn't right. And so , uh , you know , things happen. Things happen. I think when I met , when I met him , he was more nervous of what I thought of him than I was of what I thought of him , if that makes sense. Right. And so , um , this was before I started the program and everything. I just told him like , hey , man , you know what ? Like , let's let me meet you where you are because I don't have any expectations , right ? Um , I'm not looking for a check , like , you know , I'm not looking. I'm not looking to be to be mean or to blame you for anything. I just I just want a relationship , you know ? Like , do you like sports ? Do you like to cook ? Do you ? What do you like to do ? Like what can we what can we do like to to participate one another. Right. And so we did that. And I think that was the best thing. That was the best thing for our relationship were for me to really meet him where he was. And I think what really helped is that , you know , it was the 90s , right ? There was there was there was no bad blood between him and my mom. You know , things just happened. And so , um , you know , with that being said , it kind of took a lot of pressure off of him. And so , um , I think the the biggest thing that I took from it when I approach fatherhood is , is that I want to be there. I want to make sure that I'm making the breakfast , I'm taking the kids to school , I'm picking them up , I'm fully engaged and everything that they do. So if anything , it just made me really want to be the best father that I could be. Um , to hopefully stop that , uh , that generational curse , in my opinion , forever , you know , preceding. But I wouldn't change a thing. I wouldn't change a thing. I think the main thing that I missed out on is my siblings , right ? Not being able to grow with them and , and have that camaraderie with them. But you know , I have it now and I start where I'm I'm right right now. I have more in my future than I have in my past. So you know that that's also something that I work on with my dads , because I do work with dads , have been incarcerated for a really long time , or dads that have never been in their children's lives. And I just tell them like , hey , man , you know , just meet your kids where they. Ah. Don't have expectations. Lead with love. You know what I mean ? And then the chips will fall where they may. Because you just never know what they're expecting from you , right ? So just just stand up. Just be a man and be a father and and keep going.
S1: What do you wish you'd known when you first became a father that you know ? Now ? We'd love to hear your thoughts. Give us a call at (619) 452-0228. You can leave a message or you can email us at midday at pbs.org. Still ahead.
S2: I wish I had known that 1 in 10 dads develops postpartum depression and nearly 20% develop an anxiety spectrum disorder.
S1: Hear more on that when KPBS Midday Edition returns. Welcome back to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. What does it really mean to be a father , and how does it shape one's identity and their concept of masculinity ? We continue our discussion for today's show with Daniel B singly. He's a psychologist and director of the center for Men's Excellence. Also older and limber says he's a new father who recently took an expectant dads course there from the center for Men's Excellence. And then we've got Aaron West. He is with the Dad Core program from San Diego nonprofit Sei San Diego. I want to jump back into this and ask how becoming a father has changed your own identity. Aldrin , I'll start with you.
S3: I think becoming a father , I just become more appreciative of all parents. This is a lot of work , not just in appreciate for fathers , but for mothers , too. Now that you're actually doing it yourself and you're spending every waking hour , you know , thinking of what to do for your child , you know how to be the best father you can be. You realize that people who've done this not not even just once , but twice or even three times , being a father , you just become amazed and you have a lot more respect for those around you. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Dan , how much of of being a good father figure depends on being in touch with your own emotions and really knowing yourself.
S2: So this is a bit of a controversial point in that folks will commonly associate masculinity these days with the automatic. It's toxic , and traditional masculinity means tough , stoic , independent. And we apply all this to fatherhood. It means solving problems. I'm providing. I'm , um , I'm getting all this , you know , done and and taking care of. But when we start talking about fathers working to be more emotionally available , empathetic , compassionate , including being able to show compassion for themselves , were wading into murky territory because that tends to fly in the face of that traditional way of being a man. And what I would say is the research on this front is very , very straightforward , that the healthiest men are the ones that are able to do both to be a guy guy , and to the kind of tough and strong and independent and stoic and certain instances. But in others , like , for example , you have a brand new baby , you're both psychotically tired. You're having conflict about how do we handle these new and different , you know , aspects of family operations that we've never done before. If you do the traditional guy thing and you talk first and you talk loudest and you have all the data , and if somebody else is talking , you're losing , you are fighting unproductive. And so in order to keep the relationship strong and to keep to keep himself as healthy as possible and to really model what most of us hope for , for our kids , it is important to be able to connect more deeply , to hear from somebody else about what they're struggling with , including if they have difficulties with us , without getting super defensive about it. So that's what I mean when I say it's controversial. It's kind of philosophically controversial about what does it mean to be a dad ? Was it mean to be a man ? But usually doing these things is emotionally kind of uncomfortable. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. Well , Aaron , you're a father of three girls. Has that influenced the way you think about your own masculinity and what Dan was saying on that traditional way of being a man ? Definitely.
S4: Dan , I have to get your information when we , uh , when we leave , man , um , we're spot on with everything. Um , just patience really. Um , I try to be as patient as possible , as calm as possible. I try to get down on their levels. Right. Because my three year old and my seven year old , they they understand , um , and I , you know , sometimes you do want to be that dad that has that's on his chest , right ? But , you know , you can't always you can't always deliver a message like that. And , you know , the same way with my wife , right. But , um , at times , you know , the times that I think that my masculinity is being questioned the most is the time that I think that it has to take a different form and shape and how articulate my perspective. Right. And then the most important part is , is learning. Wouldn't it be quiet ? You know , I don't always have to have a , a reaction. Um , sometimes I can just have a response. And so that's pretty much my take on that. Just being more patient , being understanding and just knowing. You know , when I see people in the stores or just places in general , they're usually older. I would say , you know , 50 or 60 , they always say the same thing. Hey , man , enjoy it. Hey , man. Enjoy it. Hey , man. Enjoy it. And I'm thinking like , okay , like cool. Thanks. Right. But then I see my three year old and now I see my six month year old and I'm looking like. I remember when my mom , a three year old , was my six month old. So I'm seeing how fast it can really go. And so I'm just like , okay , you know what ? Each day , just take my time and you know , I'll run the race.
S1: Right and cherish it all , I'm sure. Um. For sure. Yeah.
S4: I did something to deserve it , and I and I didn't. I get to know that my daughters have a man that that loves them beyond that is able and is willing to do whatever to be there for them and to make sure that they feel loved. But I'm also glad that my dad has a relationship with my children , right ? They get to call him grandpa. They get to know who he is. They don't. He gets to basically relive what he wasn't able to relive with me. So those are my most enjoyable parts about being a father.
S1:
S3: They're excited. They're absolutely over the moon to finally have a grandchild. I thought that me and my wife were so excited and over the moon , seeing their reactions , seeing them for the first time , laying their eyes on a grandchild , holding their grandchild for the first time. That's rewarding for me , just seeing the joy that they have. And then , you know , they come over and we're lucky to have that opportunity. We're lucky to have them close by where they can come by and spend time with a baby. Sometimes I'll just watch them and just seeing how much fun that they're having , and they've been waiting for this grandchild for a long time. So that's actually what brings me the most joy. And that's something I totally never would have thought about until having a child and becoming a father. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Aldrin. And er and it sounds like you all both have this sort of full circle , um , experience with your parents becoming grandparents.
S2: Like as a as a micro moment. Just all of the things that had to come together in our relationship and in his mind just to make that that moment happen. And the physical connection with my son , it's it's so lovely. And at the same time , I really I don't know if I could say I enjoy it , but I have grown and benefited from how humbling it is to to be a father as well , because our children are mirrors that we hold up to ourselves , and it's easier to see things in our children that were worried and from us than it is to see the things in our children that are also reflective of what's good and right and strong about us as fathers. But for balance sake , we really need to work on being able to see both what humbles us , but also what what lifts us up. I guess that's my full circle moment. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Okay. Lastly , you know , is there anything , you know now that you wish you knew back when you first became a father ? Dan.
S2: Yeah , two things. By becoming an expert in fatherhood , I was setting up my smart aleck kids to be able to sit there and wait until I , like , lose my cool or yell or something , and they roll their eyes and be like , real fatherhood expert. And then they walk away. I wish I could have known that was what I was setting myself up for professionally. I guess I do need to , you know , with Father's Day coming up to two things. One , I wish I had known that 1 in 10 dads develops postpartum depression and nearly 20% develop an anxiety spectrum disorder. We don't think about postpartum mental health issues like that for fathers , but they're they're very , very prevalent. And for that reason , several friends of mine who themselves have lived experience with postpartum depression and anxiety , we developed International Fathers Mental Health Day , and this year it's on June 17th. It's always the Monday after Father's Day , and it is a way to create some community and some awareness for these new dads that that sheds light on ways that they struggle but then can come together. And also I thrive. I didn't know about any of that when I became a dad. Wow.
S1: Wow.
S2: Um , you can go to our website at the center for. Of men's excellence. Men excel. Com you can also go to Postpartum Support International which is postpartum dot net. And we have a whole I've been a member forever. We have a whole bunch of resources for fathers. Um but I also want to make sure folks are aware of the Dads Corps and say , San Diego and and what Erin's been talking about. That's here. It's local. And I strongly encourage people to , to avail themselves of their services. They're awesome.
S1: That is great. And of course , we'll list that on KPBS. Org as well. Aldrin anything to add to that ? Yeah.
S3: I think the thing that I was absolutely not ready for was how much to support I need to give my wife. So I like to think that as a father , I have to focus on myself saying , okay , I'm going to do these amount of chores. Maybe I'm going to do this amount of time with a baby , and then I'm going to balance her on my work schedule. But as Erin said , you're a team , so you can't ignore the needs of your life. You can't ignore the things that you need to do for her as well. Like she is giving 110% , you know , physically and mentally and with all the feedings and all the cleanings and all the work that she's doing , she needs me to be there. She needs me to be on her side. She needs me to be supporting her as well. Uh , like I said , fatherhood is not just you and the baby. It's you and your wife , you and your village , per se , to help raise this child. So don't ignore your wife. Don't ignore her needs. Don't think that , okay ? Just because I'm holding the baby , just because I'm changing his diaper , that there's not more you can do. Communicate. Always ask what she needs , how you can help. And that will make everything go by much smoother.
S1: Great advice. This has been a wonderful conversation. I've been speaking with Aldrin Lambert as he's a new father who recently took an expectant dads course from the center for Men's Excellence. Aldrin , thank you so much for joining us.
S3: I'm glad to be here. Thank you.
S1: And also , Aaron West , case manager facilitator with Dad Core , the Dad Core program from San Diego nonprofit Safe San Diego. Aaron , thank you.
S4: Yes , thank you for having me.
S1: And also Daniel B singly , he's director of the center for Men's Excellence and psychologist based in San Diego. Daniel. Thank you.
S2: Thanks , Jade. Happy early Father's Day to you and your husband.
S1: Happy Father's Day to you all too. Thank you so much. That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
