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What Trump's trans military ban means for troops, veterans

 February 3, 2025 at 1:48 PM PST

S1: It's time for Midday Edition on KPBS. Today we are talking about Trump's trans ban in the military. I'm Jade Hyndman with conversations that keep you informed , inspired and engaged. A new executive order by President Donald Trump would ban transgender troops from serving openly in the military. The order overturns a 2021 Biden administration measure that allows trans troops to serve openly. Sam Rodriguez is a second class petty officer in the Navy who identifies as non-binary. Rodriguez says trans people want to serve just like anyone else.

S2: You know , we show up every single day in positions from across every career field , and we contribute to the military and we demonstrate merit. you know , meeting rigorous standards and our performance and leadership and expertise in our jobs.

S1: Approximately 15 to 25,000 transgender military personnel could be affected by the ban. Trump's executive order gives the Pentagon two months to change its policy. Several lawsuits have been filed against the ban. Joining me now to discuss the implications of the order is Veronica Zinger. She's a retired major in the U.S. Army and Advisory Council co-chair for the San Diego LGBT Center's Veterans Wall of Honor. Veronica , welcome back to Midday Edition.

S3: Thank you very much for having me.

S1:

S3: Obviously , I was not surprised. We were not surprised as a trans community. But I think what was a little bit surprising was the cruelty in the wording. because the wording is very dismissive of people like us. It's like we just don't exist. Yeah.

S1: Yeah.

S3: The Marines are worried about their continued careers there. They're less worried about being singled out for being trans and more concerned with losing their careers. These are people that want , want , and wanted to serve. They're not looking to get out early.

S1: Well , I want to break down the wording of the order. It completely dismisses transgender identity , as you said , calling it radical gender ideology. It goes on to say this lifestyle conflicts with the soldiers integrity.

S3: The the simple word integrity means living honestly. To me and to so many other people , it means the same thing. When you say that you have no integrity , you don't live your life honestly. Well , we as trans people , we live our lives honestly by transitioning to the gender that we have always been. Mhm.

S1: Mhm. What are the consequences you think of of language like this being written into law.

S3: The , the , there's both immediate and long term. Uh , one of the immediate concerns that I have is , is a falloff in readiness. I think what's going to end up happening is that there's going to be , uh , military units that have very well trained individuals who are trans , that are in a unit They're going to lose those individuals. And as a result , the readiness of the unit is going to go down long term. It's going to establish a system of distrust , because if they can do this to trans people. My question is who's next ? And I think the most likely target of who's next are pregnant service members. Because pregnant service members sometimes can be away from their unit and in a non deployable status for as much as two years. Mhm.

S1: Mhm. And just to be clear , there's no evidence that allowing transgender troops to serve openly has a large impact on military readiness and costs.

S3: Their focus gets better. Mhm.

S1: Mhm. So how will removing these members impact military readiness.

S3: You think it's going to impact unit cohesion and it's going to impact unit readiness , because you're going to be taking a lot of individuals who have institutional knowledge and institutional memory out of that unit. And when you do that , you reduce the unit's effectiveness by a certain percentage. I don't have the numbers in front of me , but an organizational effectiveness individual could probably measure the falloff in readiness.

S1: This is KPBS Midday Edition. We're back after the break. Welcome back to KPBS midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. I'm here with Veronica Zeer. She is a retired major in the U.S. Army and Advisory Council , co-chair for the San Diego LGBT Center's Veterans Wall of Honor. We're continuing our conversation about a new executive order by President Donald Trump that would ban transgender troops from serving openly in the military. Veronica , we recently had you on to discuss the lasting impact of Don't Ask , Don't Tell , the 1993 policy that forced service members to stay in the closet.

S3: Okay. Uh , we we embedded , um , slavery into our Constitution. Three. The the 3/5. Compromise. And as a result , we've kind of gotten a pass card for being cruel to certain segments of of individuals in this country. We exercised it with the Native Americans. We get guilty and we open up , and we have a period of civil rights. And then there's a counter-revolution. There's a counteraction. The only way this country is going to work , in my opinion , is if we respect and accept every single group that's in America and that respect has to be mutual. Or else we're going to end up balkanized. Mm.

S1: Mm. Uh , you're a retired major in the U.S. Army. You served 23 years. How did.

S3: I hid , and I was deathly afraid. I remember walking down the street once on , uh , Custer Hill at Fort Riley and being cognizant of , well , gosh , how am I walking ? Am I walking manly enough ? And I was just worried about showing too much swish , as my gay friends would say.

S1: The the mental calculus that you have to do. Uh , I would imagine when leaving the house to think about all of those little things , to hide who your authentic self. Um , talk about the weight of that.

S3: Well , the weight is , um. I would have to say that , uh , my good friend Brian Doolan in Leavenworth , Kansas. He and I grew up together , and Brian and his black man. And Brian once told me after I had transitioned. He told me , he said , so how do you feel ? And I said , like , I feel like I've always got somebody staring at me and looking for something I'm doing wrong. And he said , welcome to the club. And I thought , oh my God.

S1:

S3: Yes. Oh.

S1: Oh. Another order Trump signed would disband die offices within the Departments of Defense and Homeland Security.

S3: There's going to be a great deal of distrust because there is still racism in in in the units. Um , I served my career as a white man. Okay. And I heard many times , individuals making disparaging comments about women in the military , about black women in the military , About black officers , about Hispanic officers , about Asians. I heard some very disparaging and disheartening words from these individuals. So racism has gotten a pass , a Hall pass , so to speak , in the military , I think , as a result of this. Yeah.

S1: Yeah. Well , how does this feel stigma and even dehumanization of transgender people in general.

S3: I keep thinking about who's next after us. They're not going to stop with us. I mean , for crying out loud , uh , I heard this morning the new white House press secretary talking about mutilating children that are trans. Um , and it's the , the whole argument that they came that they come up with that were harming trans children. Well , if we're harming trans children , then somebody needs to answer to me why I felt that I was in the wrong body since I was four years old. Um , I remember I came from Kansas , and I remember that , um , hearing that there were only three high school students in the whole state who were trans and they wanted to play sports. So the Kansas Legislature passed a bill saying that those three individuals could not play sports because they are trans. Three , three. Three people. Okay. The outrage that we feel is palpable. It's , um , and it's going to have negative consequences for the nation going down the road.

S1:

S3: And in in the family. Trans people want three things out of life. We do have an agenda. I would say , number one , we want to work so we can support our families. Number two , we want to be valued co-workers in our units and our places of business in our companies. And number three , we want to be respected members in our community where people feel comfortable living next door to us. And we do. In Spring Valley , my partner and I.

S1: I'm glad to hear that. Uh , I've been speaking with Veronica Zeer. She is a retired major in the U.S. Army and Advisory Council , co-chair for the San Diego LGBT Center's Veterans Wall of Honor. Veronica , thank you so much for being here today.

S3: It's been my pleasure. Thank you.

S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.

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Marine Aircraft Group 41 Detachment Alpha, 4th Marine Air Wing, stand at attention during a change of command on Marine Corps Air Station Camp Pendleton, Calif., May 25, 2018.
Department of Defense
Marine Aircraft Group 41 Detachment Alpha, 4th Marine Air Wing, stand at attention during a change of command on Marine Corps Air Station Camp Pendleton, Calif., May 25, 2018.

A new executive order by President Donald Trump would ban transgender troops from serving openly in the military.

An estimated 15,000 to 25,000 transgender military personnel serve in the U.S. military.

Trump’s executive order gives the Pentagon two months to change its current policy which allows trans troops to serve openly. Several lawsuits have been filed against the ban.

On Midday Edition Monday, we discuss the implications of the order for transgender troops and veterans in San Diego County.

Guest:

  • Veronica Zerrer, retired U.S. Army Major; advisory council co-chair for the LGBT Center's Veterans Wall of Honor