The California Primary Is Early, Big And Important

Speaker 1: 00:01 California super Tuesday primary is on our doorstep. It's decision day on presidential candidates, congressional races, the San Diego mayors contest, ballot initiatives, and much more. We'll take a last look at the big issues and races. I'm Mark Sauer and the KPBS round table starts now. Speaker 2: 00:24 [inaudible] Speaker 1: 00:29 welcome to our discussion to the week stop stories. I'm Mark Sauer and joining me at the KPBS round table today. David Garrick, who covers city hall for the San Diego union Tribune. KPBS investigative reporter. I meet the Sharma columnist Michael Smolan is also of the union Tribune and freelance journalists. Seth Coombs, Eureka, California is a political afterthought and no longer the nation's largest state will be among the earliest to vote in the presidential primary joining 14 other States, one territory and something called Democrats abroad on super Tuesday, more than a third of all delegates to the democratic national convention will be awarded in Tuesday's vote with 30% of those coming from California alone. But it's gonna take a while to learn the detailed results, even without an Iowa style screw up. And Michael California's moved it up before. Uh, what happened then? Speaker 3: 01:22 Well, uh, California was on super Tuesday back, I believe in 2004. Uh, John Kerry won the nomination, but it was different. Uh, he was pretty much the guy that was going to win coming in. And it's different now because we really, you know, it's really open season, although Bernie Sanders is the odds on favorite to come out of super Tuesday with a very good lead, if not an insurmountable lead, uh, in 2000 the California also moved it up to March. Uh, but again, Al Gore came in as the presumptive favorite by then and sort of cleaned up. Uh, so it didn't really work to, you know, have that kind of impact that they're looking for. California will definitely have an impact on this, uh, election. Speaker 1: 01:59 All right, I'll throw it out to Seth and Michael jump in, but it's complicated to say the least. How this, these are awarded and is weighted by district and there's at large and there's congressional districts tell them. Speaker 4: 02:12 Yeah. I think the key thing to remember here is that people are, yes, they are casting their vote for a candidate, but what they're really casting their vote for his delegates, for their candidate to get delegates to the convention and in hopes that they will be the eventual nominee at that convention. Now, California has, I believe, 490 plus delegates of that 271 or a portion to these, basically like these district elections, primary elections within, it's like an election within election. Essentially what you're having is a, uh, a 53 local district elections to choose delegates in order to get your, uh, nominee and to the, you know, into the presidential race. Speaker 1: 02:52 It might call it, are we gonna know everything on Tuesday night or is a death. Speaker 3: 02:56 The other aspect of that is that there's a threshold that, that to get delegates, you both, there's a statewide delegates and then there's the individual 53 congressional districts. You have to get 50 per 15% of the vote statewide, at least, and 15% of the vote in each of those districts to get a delegate. Uh, the most recent poll had Bernie Sanders statewide at 34%. I believe in Elizabeth Warren at 17. Everybody else was below 15. So if that, if those stats hold up, those would be the only two to get statewide delegates. And then it, you know, the polls further showed down how it drilled down into the congressional districts. So it is complicated. It's made up to, to make, uh, campaigns really, you know, spread their, their, you know, they're worth around. Right. And it's kind of interesting because Sanders has like 20 field offices in California and nobody's got anywhere near that much. A daddy Warbucks Mike Bloomberg has, has 11 and of course he's been spending, you know, millions and millions of dollars on TV. Speaker 4: 03:51 It's not inconceivable because of that 15%, you know, rule that there could be some districts where, you know, they don't get that amount of votes, especially because the field is so much more crowded this year as the, you know, years past that you met [inaudible] Speaker 5: 04:07 no, about this. And I think it's going to be combined or a Biden supporter. I get 14 and a half percent and my votes are just wiped out. I get no delegates. Right. Speaker 4: 04:19 Well, you don't get initially any delegates basically like you don't get it. You don't get the majority, you don't get the, the all of them. So I think the role is, is that if you don't get 15% it's then a portion, it's like by percentage points and you get a certain amount of devout delegates based on your percentage. Speaker 5: 04:36 No, I don't get it. Don't get 15% they take your boats, but don't those delegates get reapportioned to the [inaudible] Speaker 3: 04:41 people who are lower. And if in the 49th congressional district, if only Bernie Sanders gets above 15% he gets the done right. Yeah. Speaker 5: 04:49 All the delegates in that. Yeah. Yeah. Well Meetha I think you, you said it there, there's going to be a lot of people post-election who's gonna gonna wake up and realize a lot of these details. They realized it now. It may dissuade them from voting. Right. We don't even get it. I know I've read two or three these analysis two or three times and it's tough to figure this out. It's not entirely new that Speaker 3: 05:13 I think people, Democrats certainly understand they're not winner take all States. The Republicans have more of a winner take all system and not entirely, but so they understand that there's, you know, different thresholds. Do they get into the weeds on this? I think frankly Democrats are going to be very energized on Tuesday. I mean they've got a hotly contested election in California for the first time in a long time. Uh, I would be surprised if turnout wasn't pretty good. Speaker 5: 05:33 No. And I get the feeling folks are excited that we're actually part of it at this point in time because even though you pointed out in 2000 and 2004 it was sort of not that important. I spent a lot of years where I feel like California is wished we were part of it at this point instead of waiting till June when it's already going to be decided. And in three months a big difference. Three months is a big difference. What are we hearing about the, the turnout? Because it affects, not of course just what we're talking about. The presidential nomination reads on the democratic, but, but the mayor's Speaker 1: 05:58 race, the congressional turnouts, the ballot measures, which we'll get to a lot of that going to be a lot of turnout. Speaker 5: 06:03 Um, you know, I think there's some optimism about that. And it's great to point out the mayor's race because I think it looks like Todd Gloria based on polling seems almost for sure to be among the top two that heads to November runoff and Barbara Brie and Scott Sherman are fighting for the second spot. And Sherman is a Republican and Bree is a Democrat. So if there's huge turnout among Democrats who are excited about the primary, that seems like it would really help Bree and give her a better chance to make that top two slot. Speaker 1: 06:25 So wind up with two Democrats. And that's what that jungle primary we've talked about. Speaker 3: 06:29 Right. And actually some Republican local Republican leaders were a little concerned about that. They're looking forward to November because unlike 2018, which the turnout among Republicans was not very good. Trump may not be popular in California, but he's very popular among Republicans and they expect a Republicans to turn out much better, uh, in this November than they did, uh, in November, 2018. But, but, but, but the Dem democratic trial will be good. But my point getting a long way to get there is that on Tuesday there might not be as much for Republicans get out. And because we have top two primaries in certain races in heavily democratic districts, they're concerned that a Republican might not get through to November. Speaker 5: 07:05 Yeah. I think that, I think that they could turn it, I mean, I, as far as what data has shown us from the past be Republicans. Yeah. They'd be in Republicans. [inaudible] what data has shown us in the past is that the older conservative voters do, should come out for their primaries and yeah, they know who their presidential nominees going to be, obviously, but like they, I think that they would be much more inclined to vote. Like somebody like Scott Sherman who could squeak in the voters in the 50th congressional district who, who may want to maintain that as a Republican state in the voters in the 49th congressional district who may want to flip that. They're going to be out there in drones if they're, if they're highly motivated. I agree with you. But I think nothing gets people excited more than a presidential primary. I mean, that's what, that's the big thing. And if Trump were facing opposition or if the Republican ticket was not known, I think you would get higher turnout than you're going to get now. For sure. The question is, by what margin will the difference be? Speaker 3: 07:56 Did the top changes at the top two primary? There was a lot of talk about how the, there could be a lot of cases where you'd have two candidates from one party advancing. That's still pretty rare. I mean, it happens, but not as often as usually happens in a very Republican or very democratic district. And there are lots of those. But even in those, uh, you know, you mentioned the 50th, which is a very Republican district, uh, the one lone Democrat, mr [inaudible] is almost certainly going to get through to November. Speaker 1: 08:18 No, it's tough in a state as big as California, Texas, the super Tuesday is just so many States to even campaign. And, you know, they got bombarded and Iowa and New Hampshire and these smaller States, but you know, you just can't cover it all if you're a candidate, no matter how much money again, Speaker 3: 08:33 well, you know, and we will see what happens on Tuesday. You know, in some cases, uh, candidates that sort of come out of nowhere, like P, uh, mayor Pete P put a dead, uh, con can kind of build, but with the big States like California coming so soon, it's hard to ramp up to, to that, you know, Iowa, New Hampshire, just an entirely different world. You look at Bernie Sanders, who's working off 2016 race, you know, he's had infrastructure there and been building for four years. Uh, you know, the other sort of extreme end of that spectrum of being ramped up is Mike Bloomberg who basically has a, you know, 100 million, several hundred million dollar pop-up campaign that, Speaker 5: 09:10 yeah, I mean every time you watch something on YouTube you are just inundated with Bloomberg blankets everywhere. Yeah. Speaker 1: 09:20 All right. Let's move on. We touched on the mayor's race after years of Republicans in the San Diego mayor's office, despite a brief interruption, a Democrat figures to take over in 2020. Oddly, the main contest may just be for second place. Todd Gloria, former council member, current state legislator, Barbara, Bree current council member are the main democratic contenders with Gloria seemingly in the lead. As you, as you noted, Republican Scott Sherman termed out council members, the chief Republican challenger top two vote getters move on to November on. So you, you touched on this, the jungle primary could end up with two Democrats. Okay. Speaker 5: 09:56 It could, I mean, especially like I said, there's a strong turnout among democratic voters and most polling I've seen chairman is slightly ahead of breed, but they're within the margin of error. So I think it's really going to be touch and go, which one of them comes out. One thing I'd point out is a lot of those polls are before Brie started, kind of an advertising blitz, or maybe that's overstating it, but more TV advertising. So that may have helped her, especially when it was a small margin. But we're going to see it. That'll be one of the interesting things to watch on Tuesday night is which of those two, Brie or Sherman makes the runoff with Gloria and Michael, how nuance does this all go? Speaker 1: 10:22 Yeah, I mean, you've done some columns on this race and other races we'll talk about, I've gotten testy laborers for labor as against certain candidates. If you're right. Speaker 3: 10:31 Well, I, uh, I, and I fall into this, you know, all the time, but I think we make too much out of the, the partisan aspect of municipal races. I mean, it's a heavily democratic city. We have a Republican mayor, so obviously he attracted some Democrats or democratic leaning independence. Uh, you know, well, I mean, you know, you've, where do they go? Um, they've got, uh, plenty of choices. They've got a, you know, Barbara Bria, business oriented candidate who's kind of wants to restrictions on development. Todd Gloria, who really has a, an amazing coalition when you think about it, I mean, he's got labor, he's got the chamber of commerce, the democratic party. Uh, you know, as David said, he sorted in the cat bird seat on this, but Scott Sherman is going to attract some conservative because he's kind of the Republican aspect. But I just think in a lot of cases, municipal issues, I'm not saying partisanship doesn't matter, but I don't think it's as strong of a driver as in the congressional races because you know, literally people don't have the DNRs after their name. Speaker 5: 11:26 Well, I think one thing I would to say a counter argument to that is the last time that it was in November, Filner did win, right. And then walked in one in a special election in February, Democrat. Right. And so I'm saying, fuck that. The Republican one, I'm not disputing that, but I'm saying the last time we did have one that went to November, a Democrat did win. So I do wonder how strong of a sense there is among voters about wanting that, that contrast at the municipal level of a Republican versus a Democrat. I don't know if that's a real thing, but it doesn't seem like Speaker 6: 11:54 there is a ton to differentiate Barbara, Bree from Todd. Gloria. But maybe there is. Speaker 5: 11:58 I I slightly disagree. I think that, uh, and I think Michael will agree with me that Bree has sort of, uh, pivoted to a more sort of centrist candidate as you know, whereas that's exactly I, because I used to cover it and two years ago they were the same on every issue. Right. And I think only after they became Maryland and it's, did she feel the need to separate herself because she was, you can't say it in the same as him. Speaker 6: 12:21 So for voters who are paying attention, maybe they're not buying that differentiation. Speaker 5: 12:26 I do think, yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead. I think maybe she was forced to do that. But I also think that there are some real issues and I think one of the things that she's focused on in Sherman maybe as well is that while Michael pointed out that Todd has a remarkable coalition and Todd says that proves that everyone supports him. I think there are folks who are suspicious of how can everyone support this guy. And you know, Barbara has made the case that maybe people just like business as usual, maybe the labor unions and business interests want a certain setup at city hall that they know how to work, they know how to maneuver and that Barbara maybe would bring real change. And when you look at the Ash street controversy, when you look at the hepatitis crisis, maybe, maybe a shakeup is what's needed. Speaker 5: 13:00 And I think that's what Barbara is trying to sell is that she would be more likely to shake things up than Todd. And I do think there's something to be said for the fact that Scott Sherman has just sort of laid back in the cut and just let these two Democrats tear each other apart, you know? And, and he's, he's a relatively soft spoken guy as is. Yeah, we'll lay back. He didn't even enter till Thanksgiving, so they gave them a long time to attack each other and now he's sort of jumped in. He's fresh and no one's really attacking him, I don't think, because it's, he doesn't seem to be a favorite. No. And, uh, could be to his benefit. Speaker 1: 13:27 Let's talk a little bit about, and then we'll do this more as the year goes on. Well after this primary, but a mayor, Kevin Faulkner is, we know moderate Republican here. Um, his legacy, it's a legacy issue. Michael, on the ballot this time with this convention center, and this is kind of the last go round, is it? Not Speaker 3: 13:43 certainly one of them, uh, you know, he's been pushing UN convention center expansion even before he was, since before he was mayor. When he's on the city council. Uh, you know, it's been gone in fits and starts. So finally, at least they're getting it on the ballot and we'll see what happens. We've mentioned all the time, it's a two thirds vote and that's very difficult achievement. Uh, you know, Speaker 5: 14:01 as I mentioned with the opposition, which was maybe unexpected, but there's been more opposition I think they thought they would have. Yeah. Speaker 3: 14:06 Funny because what seems to be the most controversial, the convention center expansion, but it's a, you know, prominent homeless advocate because as we know, the prop C the would raise hotel taxes for the expansion expansion of the convention center, homeless programs and road repairs. Uh, Michael McConnell, the homeless outfit, just thinks that, that there's a lot of loopholes and so far, so it doesn't take much to knock things down. But getting back to your original question, uh, yeah, it would be a big hit on Faulkner, uh, not to, to win this one. There's other things. How does, how does he do on housing and homelessness? Those are the things he's really focusing on. They've made, you know, a lot of statements and a lot of policies. It's still unclear how much progress they've made. You know, the building permits aren't, haven't been to the degree that they say they need a, we'll what the next homeless count is. Speaker 3: 14:53 San Diego's got, and he's gotten a lot of attention for progress here when it's skyrocketed elsewhere. But other people sort of suspicious as to how real that is. Right. I think when you look at it longterm though, I just have to say covering city hall, maybe success is the only barometer you should use. But the amount of effort they've made on housing has been truly comprehensive and remarkable. From my perspective. They've addressed granny flats, live workspaces, middle-income density bonuses, low-income density bonuses. I mean, they've really run the gamut. I don't think anyone really could have tried any harder, but they're not succeeding. So I guess that's what ends up being, you know, the Brahman, it takes a while. Let's face that. But, but you know, despite all that, is it putting up enough units to, to change the market and make housing more affordable? And that's happening statewide. Speaker 3: 15:38 And to your point, like I've never seen a local measure be, you know, attack from sort of both sides, seemingly both sides. Whereas like you have these anti-tax conservative tourists we got, right, right. But like no taxes, no taxes. So it's always, it's always, you know, for them that's always their, uh, their position. And then for, you know, again, somebody like, uh, uh, homeless advocates like Michael McConnell, like they're saying like, no, like this isn't what, this isn't what is needed. And you're basically just doing this to get, you know, a, this convention center that you've always wanted. Everyone agrees that we should raise the hotel tax of the tourist friendly cities in the country. We have among the lowest, the question is, what should we do with that money and is this the right thing to do with that money? Right? You've got the one shot to do that, right? Speaker 3: 16:21 And you got the one pool of money to take in on it. Other measures here. The, besides the convention center expansion, we've got B, that's another, well that's a, the Newland Sierra project about 2000 homes give or take just North of Escondido right off high 15. And the symbolic in its own sense, it is a, you know, w became controversial because according to the County general plan and that kind of development wasn't supposed to be there, but the, the County supervisors, uh, approved a general plan amendment that riled people up there and they got the signatures for a referendum. So it's, it's a bit of a watershed aspect to it, but, uh, there's, you know, it gets confusing because there's another even broader development initiative measure a, as we've talked about before, that would require any kind of general plan amendment like that to go to a countywide vote, which is a big deal. Speaker 3: 17:06 So really between deal because it will slow down development and it would scare developers off because of the hassle of heavy voters or as the advocates would say, no, it would focus development where it should be along the transit corridors and you could build density, which brings lower income housing. Anyway, those are the sort of the basic arguments, but I think the, the bottom line is that, that those two initiatives combined could really shape the future of how San Diego is going to grow for decades. I'm super curious, without the opposition from the golden doors spa, how strong would the opposition be against measure B? It would be very strong and vocal, but it wouldn't have the financing. I mean, very simply put that they're really the key, you know, opponents to that and um, you know, may push it over the edge. But having said that, I think that, you know, you can't underestimate the, the, uh, the anti-development, you know, gene in San Diego is a DNA. I'm sure that's a hackneyed way of putting it throughout its history. There's always been that push pull and, and the anti-development sentiment is, is always pretty strong environmental groups who are pretty, you know, I've been pretty outspoken Speaker 1: 18:13 and against it as well. All right. We're going to continue our freewheeling and move on to the, to the Congress races even more to talk about. We've talked a lot about the very red 50th congressional district in the contest between Republicans [inaudible], Carl de Mio. Well, well is Democrat a competent ajar who's on his second go round, but the safe democratic 53rd being vacated by the retirement of Susan Davis after 20 years has really heated up and Seth a fairly a large number of candidates, but we're going to go to the three Democrats here given our limited time today. Thumbnails, Sarah Jacobs, Georgia at Gomez Janessa gold. Speaker 4: 18:47 Uh, yeah, sure. So Georgette Gomez obviously is the, uh, you know, first, uh, she's a community organizer. She, she was the first, uh, LGBTQ Latino woman to be elected to the city council, uh, became council president, uh, Janessa gold. Becca is a, a former Marine, a victim's rights advocate. And Sarah Jacobs is a, uh, antipoverty, uh, nonprofit and also, uh, worked in the Obama administration. Speaker 5: 19:13 Well, she was a contract. There's a lot I know, I don't want to say that. He wants to say they weren't [inaudible]. That's been a bunch of times. I was in DC once this winter trying to figure out who really worked for the Obama administration or who answered mail for Obama in the basement, you know, which I mean maybe counts, but not traditionally. Speaker 3: 19:30 The big thing about Sarah J because her grandfather is Irwin Jacobs quarter KPBS, which is a co founder of a, of Qualcomm and uh, she's very wealthy and that shows in her campaign, although she's done a heck of a job fundraising, it's not just like she's self funding, but that I think is related to the fact that her grandfather was a, this had been a huge democratic donor over, Speaker 5: 19:51 it's interesting. Can we ever mention Sarah Jacobs without including, that's why I didn't mention it. She knows that when she gets, I'm not knocking you for bringing it up, but the, the three women candidates who it looks like it's gonna come down to, I'll just send them on Speaker 3: 20:09 that. Uh, the one Republican who's not campaigning, uh, Chris Stoddard, uh, who's a reservist. Uh, and he, uh, he ended up a distant second in the poll we did. Now, that was before a lot of what Georgette Gomez was doing and Jessica Holbeck but a distant second behind us, our Jacobs and some weird stuff is going on. Sarah Jacobs run an ad that just sort of portrays him as the lone opponent as the Trump Republican and in a way, in a backhanded way that's, you know, an effort to boost his campaign. I mean, what he wants, she wants to do is have him, uh, to guarantee yourself a window. And there's also been an independent male or that that is just like a positive to this guy about this Speaker 5: 20:48 guy. But he has, he has an iron next to his name, so he's going to get a chunk and you know, it's just a primary, it certainly helps to have some money that he, and he doesn't know who's doing the independent campaign, right? Yeah. To Michael's point, let's be clear this, this, this seat in November is not flipping red. They like that. The idea is that you want to get a Republican on the ticket and you know, and when the prayer series of Democrats tickets, you want to run it against a Republican, you know, and the idea is that if you sort of like grease the wheels a bit on this, this Chris daughters' campaign, then he might end up on the ballot with you, in which case it's easy sailing from then on. And we have any ethical problems with her doing that. I mean, is it all fair and loving to warrant elections or is that, is that Holly, Speaker 3: 21:28 Georgette Gomez started as she filed an FVC complaint? Well, actually she mentioned, uh, Jacob's, but, uh, it's more the, the independent committee. There wasn't any know. I don't know who it is. There's no disclaimer or you know, identification as [inaudible] Speaker 5: 21:42 citizens United. They don't have to reveal it or it's required by the [inaudible]. They just haven't done it and they didn't do it yet. It's like, at this point, the damage is done. You know, this is a tried and true tactic. I mean, Newson did it when he was fighting against Viera GOSA and Davis did it. Right. Yeah. Well, let's talk about a little bit. When our time is limited on Janessa gold Beck, who's kind of come out of nowhere, we talked about Jacobson in the funding there, Gomez with the name recognition and with the council. But gold Beck's really just come up with a grassroots campaign. Well that, and I think [inaudible] Speaker 3: 22:11 the more people listen to her, pay attention to her and look at her background, the more impressed they are with her. Speaker 5: 22:17 But endorsed her. Tell me about that. For the record, I'm a columnist. I'm not part of the editorial board. I'm on your wall. But that was a surprise. I think Speaker 3: 22:26 just for the basic reasons I'm saying that they interviewed the, you know, the, the top candidates and had a lot of, uh, you know, nice things to say about them, but just thought she Rose above, I think primarily, certainly her service as a captain in the Marines, but also she was a communitarian activist. Uh, she, she, you know, worked, uh, to, you know, help avoid atrocities in Darfur. She was doing a lot of lobbying on those issues in Washington. So I think that the editorial board thought that she had a good deal of Washington experience that the others didn't. And you know, I mean Georgette Gomez has certain, you know, skill sets and experiences, but she hasn't done that in Washington. Speaker 5: 23:04 And looking behind the curtain, you know, they had the UT editorial board has been sort of endorsing a lot more centrist candidates and I think Janessa is more. But I also feel like, I think it's in some cities the newspaper tries to endorse someone who they think is a good candidate and they think could win. And I think our editorial board, at least in recent years has been more willing to endorse candidates. Maybe that's the best candidate. And then we're not really care if they have a chance to win the city council in district nine they endorsed a candidate who most people feel has almost no chance to win. But they were impressed by him in the interviews and he decided to make the taco mall and she could, she could articulate her positions on, on big issues like health care, whereas perhaps the others weren't as eloquent issue in Janessa gold Beck. Speaker 1: 23:46 I mean, she's been out to all these forums, all the candidates have, but you got to make your impressions with the groups in, you know, coffees and living rooms and [inaudible] this is my Bates and this is my district. Janessa go back is a very appealing candidate and you're not alone. Mia Farrow endorsed her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. We're, I don't know how much create alibis. We've got about a minute left. Let's go to the, uh, the, the 50th out there replayed the race to replace Duncan Hunter. You've got two Republicans, budding heads, company jar. The Democrats seems to have a shoe into November. Would you think Michael? Speaker 3: 24:17 Uh, yeah. I, I think that, I mean, even when Daryl Eissa first announced, uh, in September, he said it's going to be one of us and a Mar company. Shar. I mean, let's face it, he almost defeated Dunkin Hunter. Uh, who you know, you know, has left office because of his legal problems. Nobody under indictment this time around. That's true. It's a, it's a different ballgame, but you're not going to see two Republicans advance, uh, you know, once the Republican gets into November, I think it's going to be very tough work. Speaker 1: 24:42 I said a mile have enough hearts and minds been changed in that district to flip some Republicans to actually vote for a Democrat going into the general Speaker 3: 24:55 in some cases. And that was probably the case in 2018 although there was a different Republican, you know, standard bear. But I still think that, that, uh, you know, everybody that's sort of looked at this, you might get some [inaudible] Speaker 1: 25:07 crossovers, but plus the registration, it should have one, three to one. It's, it's red. Yeah. All right. Got to cut it off there and more next week more to come. It's a great discussion today. Thank you. That does wrap up another week of stories at the KPBS round table. I'd like to thank my guests, David Garrick of the San Diego union Tribune, Amit, the Sharma of KPBS news. Michael Smollins, also of the union Tribune and freelance journalists, Seth Coombs. Well, be sure to vote on Tuesday and listen to our updates on KPBS radio, beginning at APM and watch complete coverage on KPBS TV at 10 in the meantime, check out our comprehensive election guide at KPBS dot O R. G I'm Mark Sauer. Thanks for joining us today and be sure and join us again next week for our post-mortem on the round table.