Roundtable Looks At Power And Weather, One Paseo, La Mesa Politics

MARK SAUER: Joining me today on the Roundtable are my guests, Erik Anderson, Andy Keatts, and Chris Lavin. NPR described it as a heat storm, days of record-setting temperatures punctuated by remnants of a powerful hurricane pushing through San Diego county. So far, we have not had rolling brownouts. Even so, SDG & E has said it wants more power plants, and to restructure the way we pay for electricity. Erik, there's a lot going on today. Let us start with the pay structure, what did they announce this week, and what are they proposing? ERIK ANDERSON: All investor owned utilities across the state of California had the opportunity, thanks to legislative action, to regain control of how rates are set in California. They are made proposals. They want to change the way we are charged for electricity. The way it works now, we have four electrical tiers. The first two tiers are below market prices. People who use the least amount of energy. The other two tiers are above market prices, above average prices, for people who use more electricity. The idea was being initially that would allow efficient customers to save money by using less electricity to get benefit and it would create incentive. The utility wants to shrink the number of tiers from four to two, and close the gap between them. It is only about a 20% difference. What that means and what people were complaining about when the CPUC was in town this week, they feel the people who are now being very efficient and using small amounts of electricity are going to see a rate hike. The heavier users are going to see a rate reduction, and they feel that sends the wrong message. MARK SAUER: Kind of a disincentive. We had Mark Toney, Executive Director of the Utility Reform Network, here is what he had to say on evening edition: [AUDIO FILE PLAYING] MARK TONEY: We are against any changes that penalize people are saving energy. The results of adding a ten dollars service fee and flattening the tiers means that 70 to 80% of all customers will see a higher bill at the end of the month, and a small number of customers that are very large users will get a discount. We do not think that is right. [ END AUDIO FILE ] MARK SAUER: So he does not think that is right, and now we've got SDG & E spokesperson Stephanie Donovan responding to that: [AUDIO FILE PLAYING] STEPHANIE DONOVAN: We are absolutely supportive of continuing to provide incentives for customers to conserve. As I told you, I do not believe, we do not believe the signals all right for the 70 to 80% of customers that parts mentioning, they are not getting the incentive to conserve, they have had in artificially low bill for years, and now it is time to level the playing field. [ END AUDIO FILE ] MARK SAUER: She is talking about leveling the playing, bottom line, SDG & E gets more revenue in the end. ERIK ANDERSON: Actually, they don't. They don't get more revenue guidance how they slice up the pie. They are just wanting a more equitable way to slice of the pie. I do not think most consumer advocates I talked to, they're not saying the tier system is wrong. They just think they are going to far. It brings the lower usage rate up a little too high, and higher usage rate down a little too low. They want to see more incentive in the system, so that people can see savings if they are efficient. MARK SAUER: How long is the process until this takes effect? ERIK ANDERSON: It going to take a while. One thing that SDG & E is asking for is a ten dollars flat fee. Every month you will get your utility bill and you will be charged ten dollars regardless of how much electricity you use. They say it is to pay for the maintenance of the electric grid. Solar advocates are taking umbrage at this. They are saying this is a way to get back at them, because they are selling energy back to the utility and getting bills down to zero. They say if it is a flat fee regardless of use, it makes solar more expensive, so they are up in arms about it. ANDY KEATTS: The context here is that the difference between the lowest and highest tier is 100% more. Now, it will be 20% spread. It seems reasonable to me there might be different ways to pick up the pricing structure. This is a drastic change, if in fact it gets to the point there is almost new difference between the higher and lower tiers. ERIK ANDERSON: And if you understand how the system got into place, the legislature, after the electricity crisis in 2001, they took over that responsibility from the CPUC. They set rates and capped them at those rates. That is why you saw over the ten years a raising of the higher two tiers, and that is why there was a big spread. CHRIS LAVIN: If the prices are going up at the lower end, does that give more incentive overall in the sense for solar? More people out there in the neighborhoods are going to say I am putting it on. ERIK ANDERSON: That is a good question. I think when you include the flat fee proposal, that is the disincentive. Then, you are creating extra costs to make up. Solar, although there are different financing options available if you are interested in putting solar on your home, it is still big capital. Some places you can have a put on your property tax bill, and you can pay it that way. There is still percent down, there are lease options, and different things going. Basically, solar owners are saying right now, we pay about five dollars per month if we make enough electricity to balance out what we use. They also saying is that the utility already benefits from us, because we are selling our energy to utilities at a very low rate, and they sell it back to other customers at a higher rate. They make a big profit, and they feel they are being taken advantage of. MARK SAUER: Let us talk about the heat this week. It was extraordinary. There were people talking all over town, it was the water cooler topic of the week. Is this climate change? A lot of scientists are very wary of taking any weather events and relating it to climate change. This was extraordinary, this week. ERIK ANDERSON: It was so great, I was out taking a walk this morning and it was cool outside, which was such a change. I really enjoyed that. We saw a couple of things happen in terms of weather. It was the second time in a month we have had a hurricane from Baja that impacted our weather pattern. That brought us to the heat to begin with. Those storms can't move north, if ocean temperatures are warm. So the ocean temperatures have been warmer than usual, which is allowing storms to extend the reach into California and Arizona and desert areas. That brings monsoon temperatures. We have community today still. We are still feeling the effects. It does not mean that climate change is taking effect. I think you can look at a lot of things. I think NOAH was out with information today was the hottest month worldwide on record. MARK SAUER: And oceans are higher than normal than the record. ERIK ANDERSON: There is an indication that there is a chance of another El NiÒo this summer, which could mean rain for us, it would be very welcome. I think you see the signs and a lot of areas that warming is starting to be felt and a lot of different ways. We are learning what that means, in terms of weather. MARK SAUER: And we got the notice today that SDG & E set a record for energy use, not surprising with everyone cranking air-conditioners. ERIK ANDERSON: When you have got the heat on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday, people go back to work on Monday and turned down the air conditioner to say cool. CHRIS LAVIN: This is what life in Florida is like eight months of the year. San Diego has developed a slightly thicker skin. ERIK ANDERSON: That is why we live here. CHRIS LAVIN: We are delicate flowers. MARK SAUER: One other thing before we run out of time on this segment, you covered on state fire officials, a new warning system rollout, kind of like a hurricane warning system. Tell us what that is about. ERIK ANDERSON: The concern with global warming is a more intense fire season here in Southern California. What weather researchers at UCLA and San Diego Gas and Electric and the US Forest Service have been doing, they are developing a tool to better predict the potential that Santa Ana winds can have in relationship to wildfires. If they have extreme Santa Ana events, they think they have the tools in place to be able to tell five or six days out yes or no if we will have a severe event in terms of wildfire risk and allow them to move resources to where they are needed. You can go to the website, www.SantaAnawildfirethreat.com you can look at the forecast, anyone can look at the forecast 60s out and find out with arthritis. This is something they have been developing the last couple of years. By putting agencies have been using this information, they are just going to fine tune it for the public. MARK SAUER: And of course we are coming into the October wildfires season. We are keeping our fingers crossed that nothing terrible happens down here. San Diego's long-term development plan is for the city of villages. The idea is to replace urban sprawl with dense, walkable community served by public transit. The idea does not sit well with those who already live in targeted neighborhoods. Andy, your story this week was about the massive One Paseo development, and this is emblematic of what we are talking about. ANDY KEATTS: I am not sold on this being the single best example of what the city is attempting to do. One Paseo is basically the largest unbuilt lot in the Carmel Valley community. It is right at the heart, on the other side of the street on the other side of the Delmar center. They are trying to build would be a very dense project: 600 housing units, one point 4,000,000 ft.≤ of building spread across office towers and by such spaces, spread around a twenty-three acre campus like facility with a walkable promenade. MARK SAUER: It sounds like a city of villages. ANDY KEATTS: In that respect, it is. It is a dense, walkable village. The reason is more public it in this being a perfect example, is that transit is supposed to be front and center around these villages. It is supposed to be a network of villages connected by transit. There are plans for a rapid bus line to come to Carmel Valley, where this property is, but not until 2035. From now to then, it is going to be depended upon cars for a large extent. There are over 3000 parking spaces there, which is good evidence that they expect people to drive there. I think that is one example that it does not quite fit into the conversation. I think another is, Carmel Valley is very far north, about 17 miles from the city center. The idea for this is to be centralized, to be near things. Going back to the other hand, there is a large employment center around Carmel Valley and Sorrento Valley. That is where a lot of the aisle Tech jobs in San Diego are, and you can go back and forth. I think that is why it is so controversial. It is not easy to say hey, this is what we are talking about in the city, get in line. It is also not easy to say this is a disastrous monstrosity of developer agree, what are you thinking? I think that is why over the last six years since this project was opposed, it has continued and the fight has gone on for so long. It is not easy and it is not simple to talk about. MARK SAUER: The planning and advisory groups, they do not have the veto powers that were, they are not crazy about it. They say they will take a scaled down version, but this one they have voted against. ERIK ANDERSON: Yes, and even that was controversial as a decision by the group it was very clear that some of the members of the board wanted to make a strong statement and say no, we do not like this project at all, end of story. Instead, the board ultimately said this is 1.4 million square feet with 600 units, we can live with 800,000 ft.≤ and 300 units. This is just advisory. Kilroy Realty, the developer of the project, is still going for with the initial proposal, which is what the city council vote on as early as December. MARK SAUER: Ultimately it is the city council that throws the holy water on this. Grantville is another community grappling with this city of villages idea. That is a different sort of community, give us the lowdown on that. ANDY KEATTS: One Paseo is a vacant lot. Grantville is already on the trolley line. It is very much within the urbanized area of San Diego. It is pretty central. MARK SAUER: It is just west of here, along Interstate 8, just west of San Diego city. ANDY KEATTS: It is close to City Heights and downtown. It has its own trolley stop. It has these established communities that are kind of post-world war, first-generation suburban communities like Allied Gardens. There is opposition from those neighborhoods about what they are planning to do in Grantville, which is currently an industrial area. There is some shopping and Home Depot there. But they would kind of turn the whole area into this mixed-use urban village, and this is being pushed by the city itself, not a specific developer. There are some property owners that allis that are very much in favor of it. Otherwise, the San Diego River runs through there. They think they have an opportunity to create a walkable River Park and green spaces. That is a better example of the city of villages concept in action. If you go through the checklist of the things you're looking for, it hits all of the boxes. ERIK ANDERSON: Grantville has had issues with development over the years, with the city, where some of the money that was supposed to be going into that community, there were attempts to move it out of the community. It does not seem there is that cohesive push inside the community. It always seems to be coming from the outside pressure to develop. ANDY KEATTS: I think that is true. I think the other thing in dispute during this, during the redevelopment era, people were saying the primary purpose of redevelopment is to combat blight. This is not a blighted area. Interestingly enough, this plan the city is pushing now kind of originated there. This is, in fact, the study that is based on this that became the proposal was paid for with redevelopment money. This is very much the next chapter in the conversation. CHRIS LAVIN: Other than downtown San Diego, is there any place in San Diego County that will take density? Almost everywhere I have seen sees itself as a small-town, even in neighborhoods within the city, Hillcrest, and those places, the increasing density that the city of villages require is not seem to be accepted anywhere. ANDY KEATTS: That is exactly right, I think that is what city planners are learning as they go out in these communities. The two ways to look at it are either the city needs to do a much better job of telling communities what they stand to gain, and convince them that the opposition is unfounded, where the other thing they can do is courageously say listen. This is the adopted city policy. I'm sorry it is inconvenient, but we will do it anyway. That is not what they have done and not what I expect them to do. The first one takes more time, outreach, and commitment. That is not something I've seen them doing either. I think it gets at what you mentioned in the introduction, this is kind of a NIMBY issue. I think it gets at why the term NIMBY is used, not in my backyard, if density is good and if we recognize we need to intensify somewhere, we do not have the luxury of saying we can do it here. You are basically saying I need to do it in the next guys backyard. MARK SAUER: And that gets to Chris's point, which is they do not see the city as a whole as a sacrifice to everybody. They see their own committee and this is what want to do. There is one other place I want to push on, the Linda Vista Park areas, they have other issues there. CHRIS LAVIN: There is also in La Mesa, over the city line, there was a plan for an eighteen story opposed, multi-million square feet surrounded by transit lines, interstates, exactly where you expect. MARK SAUER: No one is keen on that lives there. CHRIS LAVIN: It is not being welcomed. What is the situation there? ANDY KEATTS: Marina Boulevard, that is the one that really blew up in the city states earlier this year. They have what they call a focused plan amendment. We recognize one area they were put a trolley extension, to extend the trolley line from old town to La Jolla. It is going through on the east side of the five. They will turn what is a bit of a commercial area and what is residential on the hill. They're going to turn that strip at the bottom of the hill to turn it into this idea, that it would be oriented around the two trolley stops that would be there. The community again said emphatically no. We do not like this. I think this is another example of the city dropping a proposal to build sixty story buildings and to increase density and to do it because of this, and everybody said no. Maybe this was going to be the outcome no matter what, however, it would be worth knowing how much outreach went into the situation. MARK SAUER: We will continue this discussion as we shift gears to the next segment. It touches on some of the same issues. La Mesa is considered by many as a quaint jewel of a village in the middle of the Metropolitan area. Stroll past antique shops, and restaurants, and you will get a small-town feel. But the breezes of political change could be blowing there. Chris, some of them had to do with this kind of development, some of this had to do with some leaders that have been entrenched for a long time. CHRIS LAVIN: I lived in La Mesa for ten years. I run an online newspaper created for the town. It's a noncommercial operation that we do. MARK SAUER: The old town weekly? CHRIS LAVIN: The equivalent effect. We have come to understand the town as a canary in the coal mine. It is right on the eastern side. It has grade schools. The Spring Valley school district has innovative things. People love the town, who have lived there for generations. It is not as transit as the rest, and it is crisscrossed by trolley lines, bus lines, and interstates. That would make it a perfect place, fifteen minutes from downtown, to have a major development. The village is there already. They are doing it now. There's a lot of ambition in the town, it is a great place to live. But they see themselves more as Mayberry, not as the next urban center. The politics of the town is long serving. The Mayor has been there for twenty-four years. MARK SAUER: Let's talk about him, Art Madrid. He wants to go more colorful, he is a colorful guy. He is not a bland San Diego partition, which we've had our share of over the years. Tell us about him, he wants one more crack at the barrel. CHRIS LAVIN: He's a wonderful guy. He said this would be his last round. He was up against real opposition this time. The entire council is against him, like many long serving politicians, they developed enemies overtime. Art has his strong points, and his weak points. He wants to go once more, and he is up against a kid that he mentored for a while, Mark Arapostathis, he is somewhat of a local hero. He runs theater groups, he's a schoolteacher, he is beloved in town and supported by virtually every other politician in town, to knock Art off. That race began last night with the first campaign, the first debate night. All of that is happening, in a town that has major development proposals, very similar to what is happening across the city line. But it is a much stronger sense in itself, and what it wants. It's a challenge. MARK SAUER: Does the battle between the old guard represented by Art Madrid and his younger challenger, does that break down on this whole development versus status quo? CHRIS LAVIN: No, this is far more long-term personalities, people who have lived together, but a family that lived too long in house together and needed to develop some things, so their politics last night, as they debated on the issues, they were virtually the same on almost everything. But there is a fair amount of animosity between the people. The good thing is, everybody loves the town and wants to do good. But they live in a region that is growing, and they have a beautiful place fifteen minutes from downtown. ERIK ANDERSON: Twenty-four years is a long time to be in politics in any community. I imagine La Mesa has changed over the twenty-four years, but I sense they also stayed the same. CHRIS LAVIN: They have a small-town feel. There are still horses on the hillside out there at Mount helix and places where they disallowed chickens back into the town and people are keeping them in their backyards. It is fifteen minutes in San Diego and has a 60,000 person population that was 10,000 people fifty years ago. They have been a microcosm of the growth of the region, and they are Ground Zero of the future growth of the region. SANDAG would love to see a major village there. ANDY KEATTS: It is happening in Lemon Grove, if you go around the trolley stop, whether the residents have embraced it I do not know, but the political establishment has. You can see the affordable housing towers going up and a lot of work and design going around the trolley stations there. How much you see this being a deciding issue in this race? CHRIS LAVIN: I do not think it will be much of a deciding issue, because I think virtually everyone in town thinks if they do they development here, it will not be much above the four stories aloud now. There is unanimity among politicians that they will be against it. At the same time, these small towns have to generate revenue to keep up. They want their own Police Department, they do not want to contracted out to Sheriff department. They were their own firefighters. They have consolidated some. They are smart enough people and they are good people. They know they need development revenue. Believe it or not, La Mesa has about eight or nine acres in the middle of town that could become a regional magnet for well thought out development. MARK SAUER: Room for growth, but keep the quaintness and the status quo of the village. CHRIS LAVIN: Mayberry wants to be Mayberry. MARK SAUER: We will have to leave it there. That wraps up another week of stories on the Roundtable. [ END SEGMENT ]