Real Kink with Real People

S1: On. Everybody's doing it with Miss Lawley. I talk with a kinky couple about how to have fun in a non-traditional relationship.

S2: I am not the kinkiest person in the world. There's definitely kinkier people for what I do. Is it for everyone ? No. But is there a kink or kinky for everyone ? Probably. Probably.

S1: So join us on Everybody's Doing it with Miss Lolly. Warning. This episode describes sex acts and other fun activities that may not be appropriate for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.

UU: But there's the sex.

S1: Hi , Beautiful's. Miss Lolly here with a very big topic. So big , in fact , that I can't fully cover it in this tiny little episode. So if you want to hear more in depth conversations about kink , BDSM and adult play , please subscribe and rate the show so that I can continue to give you access to many guests who want to share their knowledge and advice with you. All right , so now let's get down to it. You were listening to the kink episode. This is a massive subject , so we will only be scratching the surface here in this episode. I have for you a few guests whose kinks are the main focus in their personal lives and their businesses. They will be sharing with you their experiences , passions and even some struggles they had in getting started. And as usual , Beautiful's , I will help you along the way with some definitions and guidance as we navigate the ocean of possibilities. That is kink. And remember , these are the most basic broad definitions. There are many websites , books , podcasts , online kink tests and virtual and IRL communities that go deep and wide into these subjects. And I strongly suggest that you seek out more information if you hear something that gives you a little tingle of curiosity. So what is kink ? Kink just refers to non-normative or conventional sex behavior. This is an umbrella term that covers fetishes , roleplay toys , you name it. Later in this episode , we discuss how subjective this term is because normative means different things for different people. A lot of the time when people say kink , they're actually referring to BDSM , which stands for bondage , discipline or dominance , sadism or submission and masochism. This is also a very wide category , but the main focus is that of an unbalanced power dynamic where one person is a dominant or domme and the other is the submissive or sub. This is frequently referred to as a relationship. Pain is not a must in these relationships. It's more about the power play for a lot of people. But pain from impact and things like humiliation , degradation , worship and servitude are all powerful tools in creating the desired emotional space. You will also hear the term top and bottom , which have a few different meanings , including the giver or the receiver or the one in control or the one being controlled. We will also dig into this a lot more later , but I want to start you off with something on the tamer side. So I'm going to take you with me to the Rope Collective studio where I was offered an amazing experience with Tony.

S3: Hi , my name is Tony. I also go by Submissive Tiger in the Rope and Kink world. I am the studio owner of the Rope Collective , located in Barrio Logan on the edge of downtown. You can find us at the Rope Collective or the Rope Collective on Instagram or Facebook. We also have a Bloom account All Under the Rope Collective.

S1: Tony has been practicing teaching and demonstrating Shibori for most of her adult life , and she is an expert in creating a wide range of experiences for people that take into consideration each person's specific body mindset and experience level. I am very inexperienced in rope play and I've never been suspended before. So Tony offered to create a nice , relaxing experience for me while I asked a million questions about how it all worked.

S3: Well , welcome. Thank you. It's good to have you here. So we're going to go over some foundational , what we call soft skills in rope first , just to make sure that you're aware of all the risks and also that I can get fully informed consent from you for all of the activities and fun things we're going to go through today. And I'm going to go over the risks associated with them. That way you can give fully informed consent because you may say yes to tying with me , but if you don't know all of the risks and the specifics of the activity , you can't fully give me a fully informed. Yes. Right.

S4: Right. Absolutely. Sounds great. Cool.

S3: Cool. So rope carries some risk regardless of what kinds of rope you're going to do , the level of in which the risk is dependent on positions or the extreme nature of how you're applying the rope. Today we're going to be doing suspension , which is a little bit on the higher risk. So I just want to make sure that you understand the risk and also know what to look out for in the case that anything is going wrong. So vocabulary , we have our , our whole , um , basically kink jargon that everybody uses. So I'll start from probably the most basic to a little more far more advanced concepts. So you will often hear the phrases top and bottom when referring to rope. The top is usually the person administering the rope or tying , and a bottom refers to the person being tied. I have found that they're not tied to like Dom some sub necessarily , you know , because a lot of people can be tops or bottoms , but not necessarily in like that power exchange role. So I would say that the terms top and bottom just refer to the actual either giving or receiving of rope. And there's also switch is somebody who enjoys doing both being tied and tying others. So so we'll do a hands free chest harness and then a hip harness. So that will just be right here and then right here on your chest. And then if you do want a little more supportive lines , we can bring your thighs up like I can do thigh bands and bring those up and that'll give you a little more support in the air. Is there anywhere in particular other than that ankle that you're like , Do not touch me here ? Or do you think that the ties I described are going to be anywhere sensitive that I need to be extra careful with ? Nope.

S5: I think I'll be fine.

S3: How I plan to touch you is just for the application of the rope. Would you like any sort of like either nurturing or forceful touch in the rope or as we go ? Or do you want to keep it very platonic and more technical base today ? I'll give you an example of a more forceful touch. Is it okay to give you a little hair pull and put my body weight on you a little bit ? Yes. Okay. So forceful. I might come and actually give you a little pressure with my body weight. And this would be kind of like a forceful hair pull. Uh huh. So that's an example of something that's a little more forceful and then sensual touch. Is it okay to kind of run my hands down your body ? Yes. Okay. So a more sensual touch would be more like we'll take the hair pull example.

S6: He gave me goosebumps. Right.

S3: So those types of touch can be really they can heighten the experience. Okay. And then I just wanted to go over safe words. And also , I'm a big fan of nonverbal cues. So ways that we can communicate with each other that don't require a lot of language and they don't require a lot from you to communicate that you're ready to come out. So I'm sure you know the streetlight system. Red , yellow , green , green is good to go. Yellow is like your threshold , like I need a pause or something to change , but I want to continue the scene and stay in rope. And red is like out of rope. Scene over. I like to put a whole 24 hour hold on a red where I'm like , Give it a full 24 hours before you re-engage in kink activity because it sometimes takes us that long to really process physically or mentally why we possibly would have had to say red nonverbal cues. If you need to communicate with me that you are ready to come out or down , just shake your head back and forth like that. That can also indicate to me a yellow that you just need a check in. But if you just continue to do that or don't say anything afterwards , I will just bring you down and out of rope. I will occasionally be putting my hand in your hand like this and then if you give me a squeeze haha then I'll know you're good to go. And if I don't feel any squeeze , I'll take that as a sign that you're ready to come down and out of rope. Okay. And so the reason I really like to have nonverbal cues is you could be in an environment where you can't hear each other very well. Or additionally , if I'm constantly like , Is this okay ? Do you like this ? How is that ? How is it that might take you out of your moment and your ability to sink in ? And additionally , it is common to kind of go a little nonverbal in rope. So I just want to make sure you have all of the access to ways of communicating , even if you're in a mental state where you don't feel like you have full access of language. That kind of leads me into disclaiming that. This practice , especially suspension , can often give you kind of like a high , elevated , almost like inebriated sensation. So just be prepared for that and that sometimes from that kind of high , you can have a feeling of dropping from that high , which is why I'm a big fan of great aftercare plans.

S1: The highs and lows Tony is talking about is very important in the kink experience. BDSM isn't just about wearing something sexy and hitting people. There's a lot of brain chemistry that happens during an intense physical and emotional experience , and BDSM basically aims to create those experiences in a controlled environment. This is why negotiation of what will get a person there without actually harming them physically or emotionally is so important when done in a healthy way. The planned out actions and environment known as a scene will induce a boost in endorphins and adrenaline that put the submissive or bottom into a state of euphoria known as subspace dominance. Also get a boost of happy chemicals when engaging in these activities. However , it's a little different for the one who's in charge now. Another really important thing about BDSM interactions is the aftercare involved. Once the scene is over , people coming out of subspace can experience what is known as a sub drop. This is what happens when the happy chemicals rapidly decrease , leaving the submissive feeling the emotional void and physical pain. The body was initially protecting them from aftercare , which can include feeding , cuddling or bathing helps the submissive brain gently land in the soft , comfortable place of love and care rather than crash land on the hard ground of neglect and indifference. This aftercare can also be a really beautiful bonding experience for both and all parties. I'm really not trying to overload you with information , so if you're new to this and want to know more , there's a lot of information. A quick Google search away. Now. Let's get back to Tony.

S3: People practice for many different reasons. I came in , it was a lot more fun. It was a lot more sexual. But then I got very into the art of tying , and then I started teaching and it became mostly platonic for me in most situations because I was in a professional setting and I was teaching and therefore , you know , I love I love fantastical power exchange or power dynamics. I do not I'm not very interested in like real power dynamics. So it felt to me unethical to be teaching people.

S7: Bill how to do this practice while also having some sort of sexual or romantic relationship with them.

S3: So for yeah , I think until recently I did not have any sort of like sexual rope experiences. So I think it's important that everybody get on the same page when they are going to tie together because you could say , Hey , you want to tie with me ? And one person might be thinking , Oh , okay , we're going to lab , we're going to do something educational. And the other person could be thinking , we're about to get sexy. And it's important to be on the same page with those things and realize that it's not only very fluid for different people , but fluid at different times to for for everyone.

S1:

S3:

S7:

S3: Often and even a lot of.

S7: The ties that.

S3: I'm doing are torture ties right there. They were made to torture or different like in Japanese shibori and like Japanese rope bondage specifically , it was.

S7: A way of.

S3: Torturing other samurai. But from , you know , anybody who had been dishonorable or , you know , somebody that you respected , but they also had to be tortured. So it was this kind of seen as this way of torturing someone in an honorable way. And so they would with that , make sure they had eaten well and bathed and kind of care for them before they tortured them. So that created this very interesting kind of duality. And and history behind rope. And so when they started making more like mangas with more pornographic content , rope started becoming part of the imagery. And they would , you know , use rope in in illustrations. And then once the magazines started getting traded with other countries and things like that , that's kind of how the more classic shibori spread. And additionally , it was largely in Japan used by sex workers in their work as well. So I think , you know , you can't nor would we want to take out the erotic or sexual element out of it. It's a really big part of this practice. But one of the powerful things I've found with Rope is it really changed my perception of what sex duality is , what sensuality is , what eroticism is , and kind of broke it out of this like box , where to me it was this. I think we've all kind of been conditioned to think it's this all encompassing thing where it's like , Oh , you , your sexuality and your intimacy and your vulnerability is all reserved for this one thing , which is your primary partner who eventually you should marry and have kids with and a family dynamic and and that's going to be your only source of any of those feelings or sensations. But it's a really big part of who we are as humans. And so to be able to kind of deconstruct that and realize that , wow , I can have a intimate or erotic or sensual experience with somebody and it doesn't have to be explicitly sexual , Um.

S7: Was a really powerful kind of realization for me that that rope allowed me to have.

S3: That feeling.

S7: Of loss of control or.

S3: Helplessness or constricting restrain ment. You know , you're getting all of these feelings that we're all very used to having a very negative , intense association with. And so to be able to play with those sensations in an erotic way , in a playful way , in a way where you ultimately know that you have full control and power and autonomy over what you're doing really allows.

S7: People to kind of change their their fear.

S3: And association with those.

S7: Feelings and. Sensations.

S3: Sensations. So I think that that's kind of one of the.

S7: Really powerful things about this practice is not just the somatic experience that you're getting , but.

S3: Really the experience.

S7: Of rewriting your your narrative. Okay.

S1: Okay. So here's a question. How how do you think someone's personality might shape their style of.

S7: Role play. One thing I've found is that people's personalities tend to really blossom after they have encountered something like.

S3: Rope or kink or BDSM in general , because it's very. Vulnerable.

S7: Vulnerable. It's very exposing , it's.

S3: Very real.

S7: And raw.

S3: You know. So.

S7: You know , I found even a dear little.

S3: Sweet heart human who.

S7: Now is our. Studio.

S3: Studio. He calls himself the Studio Cat. They're here all the time now.

S7: And they just casually met us at an event at The Marrow and , you know , just wanted to be tied. And when I first met them , they were. Very.

S3: Very.

S7: Introverted , very quiet , very , you know , didn't make a lot of eye contact. And once they started doing rope and coming around the studio , now they're like giving tours of the studio and like helping other people to feel welcome and comfortable in this space. So it's it's.

S3: Interesting because I feel.

S7: Like there's people have a personality outside of rope , but.

S3: Then their personality in rope can be very different , too. And sometimes those things can play off of each other and feed.

S7: Off of each other. It definitely had that effect on me where I.

S3: Was really.

S7: Bad at communication in especially.

S3: Like in. Workplaces.

S7: Workplaces.

S3: Or anything where it was really. Serious.

S7: Serious. I would just like cry. It was really like held me back in a lot of ways.

S3: And Rope.

S7: Was something where I could start to like practice.

S3: Communication and setting boundaries and talking.

S7: About things I wanted and I didn't want and.

S4: Be very explicit.

S1: About , about everything.

S3: Yeah , yeah. And it really kind of like trained me to be able to communicate in.

S7: Every facet of my life.

S3: This is a subculture and a fringe. So you would think it would be relatively , you know.

S7: Similar in all. Veins.

S3: Veins.

S7: But even within the rope community , there's so many different styles and different kind of reasons people tie. And that will that will kind.

S3: Of shape.

S7: Their their.

S3: Practice and who they're associating with and who they're doing rope. With.

S7: With. You know.

S3: Like festival rope is a big thing now.

S7: Where it's like all the festival people like to do rope.

S3: And then for me , I would say I'm a.

S7: Little more of like a traditionalist in terms.

S3: Of like education and doing it.

S7: As an art form and being really like kind of.

S3: I hate to say serious , but.

S7: A little serious about it. You know , like I'm very like , this is serious. You take it seriously. Yeah. I take it.

S3: Very seriously where some people.

S7: Might not , they. Might.

S3: Might. It might be their total.

S7: Escape route , you know , where they are Only here for the good.

S3: Times.

S7: And that is totally understandable. You know , I would never want to take that away from anybody. So I have noticed that there's lots of little like.

S3: Sex within the rope.

S7: Community that kind of speak to to people's personalities and interests and things like that.

S4: I just want to.

S1: Vocalize that.

S4: One thing that does make me nervous and it's always made me nervous about suspension , and the reason why I haven't done it , um , is irrational. I , I understand , but it's my size.

S3: I'm really glad you brought that up because I think that it's a common misconception , but it makes sense.

S7: Why ? It's a misconception.

S3: Because I do feel like historically the rope.

S7: World has not been the best about. Education.

S3: Education.

S7: In modifying your rope for different bodies.

S3: That being said , I can assure you this rig can take 800 dynamic and 500 static. So basically , if you are moving around a lot in.

S7: It , it can take.

S3: Up to £500. And if it's just an up and down situation with like.

S7: Some very light rotation , it can take up to £800.

S3: So you're fully safe in this rig itself in the ropes.

S7: When I'm tying people of.

S3: Who might be taller.

S7: Or bigger bodied.

S3: Or anything like that , I will make sure that the wraps have multiple layers and that the weight is really evenly distributed. So by the time that you release yourself into them , you should have multiple points of weight distribution.

S7: So there will never be a point where , like all of your.

S3: Weight is on one thing. Nothing should be painful.

S7: If it's painful , that's usually something we can adjust.

S1: When we get back from a quick break , we will get to here the moment my brain starts to turn off while being suspended. So stick around for more of everybody's doing it with Miss Lolly. I am in the collective studio with The Talented Tony. The whole time we were talking. She has been tying me to a rig and then she hoisted me up and I am suspended a few feet off the ground. I was doing my best to continue to ask her questions for you , but there was a point where I was hanging there and I got so relaxed that my mind just became jelly. I think you can actually hear in my voice when that happens. I'm glad Tony was able to keep talking with our sound engineer , Chris.

S3:

S7: Which is a kind.

S3: Of hip harnessed. And.

S7: And.

S3: I've done a little bit of a basket weave.

S7: With my excess.

S3: Rope for support. And right now I'm attaching a hanger that is going to have a carabiner on.

S7: It , which.

S3: Is going to allow me to create a little bit of a pulley.

S7: System on here.

S3: And then up top we have a hands.

S7: Free chest harness. This is actually.

S3: Shay's self suspension chest harness.

S7: That I've modified a little. Bit.

S3: Bit. And so basically to get into it , what we're going to do is I'm going to pull up a little bit and you're not going to immediately go into it. You're just going to maybe kind of feel into it so you can feel if there's any lines that feel uncomfortable.

S7: Get an idea of what the.

S3: Sensation is going to feel like , and then I'm going to attach your chest. Harness.

S7: Harness.

S3: And then you can.

S7: Lean back.

S3: Into it.

S4: So this feels like the opposite of a bra. It's like just everywhere. A bra is not right. Exactly the opposite of underwear to right the opposite. Totally.

S3: Totally.

S4: I feel pretty balanced. Yay. Okay , perfect.

S3: So we're going to give you just a moment to relax into those ties. If there's any particular band.

S7: That is.

S3: Cutting in more than others that you want to adjust it , I can do so. And then I'm going to bring your thighs up and you will be completely suspended.

S4: This is really comfortable. Yay.

S6: Yay.

S4: It's like being in a hammock. Hammock. Human.

S8: Human. Hamacher.

S6: Do you think that.

S9: The the.

S7: Most powerful thing that rope has brought. Me.

S3: Me.

S7: Is kind of an outlet for my. Creativity.

S3: Creativity.

S7: In a way where I could be.

S3: Disciplined , Like I've always been a very creative.

S7: Person , but.

S3: Always have lacked the discipline to get good enough at it , you know. And Rope was the first thing that I.

S7: Really was.

S3: Almost gave me the opportunity to take little. Steps.

S7: Steps.

S3: And really allowed.

S7: Me to not.

S3: Overwhelm myself with , Oh , I need to get really good at this thing right away because there's no way to get really good at rope right away unless you're doing it constantly.

S7: So I think.

S3: Yeah , the , the ability to really be.

S7: Disciplined with something that I was passionate about.

S3: Was huge for me. And also just being able to relate to others in a way that. Was.

S7: Was. Understood.

S3: Understood. You know , I've it's allowed me to see different kinds of people and different personalities and , and.

S7: Kind of almost have a unique approach.

S3: To each person and relationship and individual that I encounter because that's kind of how you have to approach things with rope is everybody's a unique butterfly and , you know.

S6: Body is different.

S4: Yeah , it helped you find your people totally.

S1: And this takes a lot of trust.

S4: Like , you know , Yes , I know I didn't just meet you today , but , like , if I were to come in here and just met you , this takes a lot of.

S1: Trust to be like , All.

S4: Right , go ahead. Just tie me up to a giant tripod , like a fly away , You know , just sitting , hanging around , spinning. Just hanging out. Just hanging out on a Monday. Okay.

S6: Okay.

S3:

S4: You know , I wish my other job this morning. And I was like , I'm going to be doing two very different things in this later today.

S3: Can I get you any water or snacks in the immediate ? Oh , fine. Take this. Off.

S4: Off. Just. Water's great. Okay.

S6: Be right.

S10:

S4:

S1: People constantly being in control of things and having to be in. Control.

S4: Control. Like even just in your everyday everything. Driving here had to be in total control of myself. Like , you can't just let your brain go and your body go and just float in existence and this is kind of a break from that. Especially when I was spinning.

UU: Thank you. Yeah , of course. Put it on the table.

S6: Thank you.

S4: So who is rope for ? Everybody.

S6: Everybody and everybody.

S3: It's my motto.

S1: So what about.

S4: Somebody who's.

S1:

S6:

S3: To get you in rope. I actually used to work.

S7: With this.

S3: Couple in San Francisco , Jim and Donna , and they just look like someone's grandparents. But they would do rope suspension. They would do all sorts of things. I will say that , you know , your risk profile as you get older or if you have any ailments , may look different than others. But there are so many different ways to.

S7: Modify rope to work for you.

S3: And that might look like maybe you just do floor.

S7: Tying or maybe you do.

S3: Partials where only part of your body that can take it is in tension. Or we do some sort of suspension that's a.

S7: Little more relaxed , kind of like the one you and I did.

S3: I could have made that even more cozy and comfortable and really just made you a full human hammock net bodysuit. Right. Um , so really , it just it depends on what you want to get out of it.

S7: And , and then just really thinking about what kind of risk profile you want to have , what kind of risks are you willing to accept.

S3: In your practice. And then you can really cater your practice to work with your risk profile.

S4: I think that you could say the same thing about yoga.

S3: Yeah , absolutely. Yeah.

S9: Yeah.

S6: What about people who have , um.

S4:

S3: Beautiful.

S7: Beautiful. Practice.

S3: Practice. But I would say to treat your anxiety as you would any other physical enablement , because I will , you know , I would be just as quick to cut someone out of.

S7: Rope if they were having a panic attack.

S3: Than if I thought they were having a nerve impingement. Because when you are putting yourself in a vulnerable position physically and mentally.

S7: Yes , we have.

S3: The opportunity of transformative. Powerful.

S7: Powerful.

S3: Experiences that some might even say is cathartic or healing in some. Way.

S7: Way.

S3: But you have just as much.

S7: Possibility as harming yourself or harming someone else. So I think being really conscious about that , if you do have.

S3: Anxiety , making sure that the person you're working with. Knows.

S7: Knows.

S3: That you have a really good escape plan and that you're able to hit that.

S7: Panic button whenever you need. To.

S3: To. But I have.

S7: Found that.

S3: The yeah , the reframing of helplessness has really helped with my anxiety and being able to process in the moment , focus on my breathing.

S7: Focusing on my body. My breath.

S3: Has been really helpful. For.

S7: For.

S3: My little anxiety brain.

S4: Yeah , I feel like you could probably bounce back and forth between This is.

S1: Making me a little anxious , but oh , now I have this mindfulness.

S4: Practice of I feel the rope on me. I have to pay attention to my body. Yeah.

S3: Yeah. And I think also , you know , being able to have that little I mean , I think.

S7: That that's why I got really obsessed.

S3: With rope is because I.

S7: Wouldn't recommend this kids. But the first time I was in rope was in suspension , live in front of an audience. So I went from. Full.

S3: Full.

S7: Blown stage fright. Anxiety.

S3: Anxiety.

S7: Freaking out.

S3: To fully Zen. Nobody's in the room.

S7: I'm just in rope. So that was a very powerful experience for me in that way.

S3: And I think if you are practicing with someone you trust , being able to have those feelings come.

S7: Up and having someone honor and respect and hear and see you.

S3: In in those feelings can also be very powerful to be able to trust yourself.

S7: In those moments , you know ? Yeah.

S6:

S4: I could see how everything would just melt away at some point. Yeah. Yeah.

S7: Yeah.

S3: I always wondered that because again , I wouldn't recommend to anybody. Oh yeah. First time you do it , you should be. You.

S9: You.

S3: In suspension.

S7: In front of an audience. Yeah , but I feel like it was really important.

S3: I was at.

S7: This Rope bottoms roundtable once and I was like , you know , even though I wouldn't recommend.

S3: It , I feel like it was really important for my journey. Like , had I just been in some weird dungeon with some person I had mediocre feelings about or situation that I was apprehensive.

S7: About , I might not be where I.

S3: Am today.

S4: Yeah , my first experience , not obviously not being suspended yesterday , but my first experience with any kind of role play was somebody who.

S1: Just didn't feel 100%.

S4: Comfortable with. Right. And they are just a little a little creepy. Yeah. Yeah.

S6: And that can really.

S3: Change , reframe how you think about things. So I definitely recommend to take your time with it if you want to do something extreme like suspension , hire.

S7: A professional.

S3: Because yeah , you definitely again , when you're coming into a space that.

S7: Is , you know , requires vulnerability.

S3: You open.

S7: Yourself up to lots of transformation , but also the.

S3: Possibility of being in a.

S7: Harmful situation or a.

S3: Creepy situation. So it's really important to have a sense of.

S7: Agency as you as you come in.

S4: Getting untied Feels good too. Yeah.

S3: Yeah. So getting.

S7: Untied is.

S3: Just as important.

S7: As being tied in my opinion. Also , you may notice when the rope officially comes off and the blood flows back to all of.

S3: The places.

S7: That you might get a little bit of a rush , a little head rush. You might feel a little bit of a like , hi sensation. Yeah.

S6: Yeah. Thank you. Go. Yeah. Thank you so much for this. Yeah , it's my pleasure. Oh , so lovely.

S1: I then went from hanging around with Tony to hanging out in a sex toy workshop with a couple I met who are lifestyle and kink adventurers.

S4: James Mason , Jalen McFall.

S2: We own Mac Mason creations. We do custom wood and kink products from impact implements to furniture. We are kinky poly. Poly.

S11: Poly.

S4: You know , hedonist.

S2: Swinger , swinger. You like to have fun like the party.

S4: I'm pansexual , so I just love , love.

S2: I'm hetero flexible.

S4: And a couple that's in love that likes kink. There you go. Congratulations.

S1: All the fun you guys get to have. AJ and Taylor are part of an ordinary blended family that goes to movies on the weekends and does homework and family meals during the week. But this couple also loves to play so much so that they took a personal passion and turned it into a business creating custom impact tools and toys. I sit down with them at home to talk relationship dynamics and the many sexual awakenings they had throughout their lives. But before we hear their story , here are some terms you'll need to know. The lifestyle this refers to engaging in kink and or relationships , most or all of the time. It is a lifestyle choice and not something you casually or occasionally engage in. And poly stands for ethically. Non-monogamous and poly stands for polyamory. These are physical and or emotional relationships that consensually include more than two people. Electro play. This is play that includes a toy that uses electricity to create a little zap sensation on the skin. I find that people either love or hate the sensation and that the anticipation of this app is most of the fun. Now back to their workshop. I do apologize for the sound quality my mics were on , but they weren't working. I guess I have some technical kinks to work out. Okay , enough with the dad jokes. Here's AJ and Taylor. I got married at 20.

S12: I didn't discover my sexuality until I was about 29 , and then I realized , Oh , you can do things like that. Oh. So yeah , much different.

S2: I've had numerous sexual awakenings. It was probably my 11th grade year I had. I got a girlfriend and she was much more experienced to me. And so I started opening more up sexually with her. I got married at 18 because I was in the Navy and we had a good sex life. It wasn't compared to now , not super kinky compared to some people probably , you know , choking some impact , things like that. And her and I split. I ran into another partner and another sexual awakening. A lot of impacts , a lot of rough sex , a lot of throwing around , a lot of threesome foursomes , group sex , a lot of fun , and went on a deployment and we kind of parted ways , came back. I met my second wife , not quite again , not quite vanilla sex , but like she had a foot fetish , kind of the mainstream kink stuff.

S4: Would you consider mainstream kink stuff.

S2: Slapping on the ass , throwing around sex against the wall , choking fee ? Come play anal. The stuff that you would kind of see in like normal , almost normal porno ish.

S12: Obviously there's way more sexually we can earlier than maybe my sexual awakening was with myself. Like I had tons of toys and different stuff like that. So but not looking at a person until I was about 29. And then it was just like , Wow.

S2: We've said this before. We were both sluts before we met. Yeah. And then when we got together was definitely a whole other book , chapter encyclopedia. So that was our.

S12: Huge sexual awakening too , is when we met each other , which was I was 31 and you were 32. It's hard to meet someone that like you can literally say anything to and then like , let's try that , let's try that. So that was probably , I would say , I don't know , I wasn't with you during your era , but that was my biggest sexual awakening is when I met two and I finally can like do it in a comforting setting without it being like just multiple partners and trying things. You know , you can actually be comfortable with somebody.

S2: And yeah , absolutely. Having a partner that is there and by my side and that I can trust.

S4:

S6:

S12: We sexually we. We are super compatible and we love each other. And in our kink world we don't do a lot of kink together. And the reason is , is because we are both alphas and we're like this , but we see each other as equals , so it's really hard to top each other if that makes sense. So and if we do , we're just both tops. Like I can be. I can bottom , don't get me wrong , I can't bottom for him. And that's. Okay.

S4: Okay.

S12: This is sexual , which is the sensation one. But if it's like impact or anything having to do even with a little bit of pain , I don't like it when he gives me pain. I don't like doing.

S2: It like doing painful typing sessions on either. So a lot of.

S12: It's mental for me with him like things that I'll let a few other people that I really also trust do. I just can't let them give me pain because all I want to do is hit him back and make it even if that makes sense. So that's not really how this works. So that's why we don't do it.

S2: When we talk together , when we talk another person together , that is a lot of fun. I love coping with AJ in any Impact. She'll cut up with me on Electro , everything else. I mean , we have a lot of fun.

S12: Yeah , because we have I think we have the same mindset and that's why it's easy for us to do it together , just not to each other.

S1: Do you think Kink is for everybody ? No.

S12: Well , I mean , there's so many different types of kink. But no , I don't think that can kiss for everybody. I think it's a very mental game , kink. And I think that kink could be a very therapeutic thing for some people , but it can also be a very traumatizing thing for some people. You have to be able to let go. You have to let go and trust , and that's what you have to find really good kink partners , right ? I'm not a very trusting person , so it took me a lot of things to bottom for that I can actually trust. I think if you want to try it , absolutely do. But to really , really try it with somebody that you trust , you have to establish a lot of boundaries and a lot of consent and a lot of like whatever you guys talk about that's going to happen in that scene or whatever is the only thing that's going to happen in that scene , if that makes sense. And that's that trust factor. Almost like you got to really vet and interview the person you're going to do it with.

S4: You were saying something along the lines of those ordinary kinks , you know , like you can spice things up or whatever.

S2: Everything what I consider vanilla. Other people may consider kinky , what I consider kinky. Other people may consider vanilla. I mean , I am not the kinkiest person in the world. There's definitely kinkier people for what I do. Is it for everyone ? No. But is there a kink or kinky for everyone ? Probably.

S4: Probably so.

S1: Anything can be a kink.

S12: So like if you come from a background where like , sex was never talked about and whatever , doing it doggy style is probably kinky to you. I would say maybe a vanilla is for the individual person. So I was very vanilla in my first marriage , even though I played with a lot of toys and all this stuff. But , you know , that stuff was vanilla to me. And like , if I just go back to doing that , I'm like , Oh , that's boring. That's the boring , the boring part of me again. So I don't know , like because people could consider vanilla and boring , if that makes sense. That's why I don't like that word something. I think it is subjective. So they might not be as vanilla as they were before or they might not be like everyone's at a different stage of their sexual awakening. Tell me a.

S4: Little bit about Polly and Anna.

S12: Well , we were together for only like , I don't know , the month or so when we realized that we were both into that , but we decided to wait. We waited about a year. If you're thinking about getting into it , 90% of it is your communicating so much the point , It's almost annoying , but it needs to be done. And so we talk about everything We still do. We still talk about so much. And I think that's why it works for us to is we just are really good communicators. And and also , if something bothers us , it's one of those things like if we didn't say no right away and we didn't bother us until later , we can talk about it. But I can't get mad that you did because I never said no , because you know , if that makes sense. So let's talk about. But you can't get defensive because I'm upset about it , you know ? So we got that kind of a bit of communication together. And we don't own each other.

S2: No , we definitely go.

S12: But so we can't say , you can't do this , you can't do that. I would always say , I don't feel comfortable with this yet or I don't know how I'm going to feel if you do this or.

S2: That's one thing I think that was very important for us is that we don't own each other. We're in a partnership. And in that partnership , I don't tell her what she can and can't do and vice versa. If there's something I don't want her to do , I will ask. And then , you know , there's there's never there's never been a time where we were like , No , I'm not listening. She was kind of like a respect for each other.

S12: We started with group stuff. We did everything together. So I think we did the progression that most people do. You know , we did things in the. Same room and always together. Then we. Then we went to late playing in separate rooms. That really helps me out knowing that like , hey , I don't have to be a part of this. And vice versa. He was okay if I wanted to do something and he wasn't a part of it.

S2: When she first had got a boyfriend and was dating him , she would , you know , go off on dates. And at first I was just not I was not all that okay with it. I in my head , I was like , you know , because sex is pleasure. Like , if I can laugh at someone's jokes , I can have sex with them basically. Like , it's it's pleasure. It's an act. It's not intimate , but going off and spending time with another person , I wrap my head around that and it bothered me a lot. So together we were able to process my my emotions about it. And now that there isn't , that boundary is long gone. The boundaries where I asked her , If you're going be home after midnight , just give me give me a heads up saying , Hey , I'm going to be home in a couple hours. I just want to make sure she was okay. And then I just wanted to wake up next to her. Now , none of that is there's no I have no more boundaries. I was able to process it all and healthily , too. I mean , the.

S12: First week he was there , I thought we were gonna break up. I'm not gonna lie. I was like , Okay , well , then tell him like , we're not doing things. No , no , no. I want you to do this. He's like , I , I need to go through this. He's like , I'm not going through it very well , but I need to go through it. And if you stop doing and I'm never going to know if I'm okay. And I said , You okay ? But if I keep going , you have to tell me when it's enough , because I'm never going to lose you. And he told me it was boundaries were. And I said , okay. And I did exactly what he asked , like two of the T , like we let each other process things. And that's how it works. Because , you know , I once I had a boyfriend , then he's like and then he met his girlfriend and he still has. That was hard for me in the beginning because it's like , Oh crap , this is what it feels like now.

S2:

S12: Like , you don't give your emotions and heart away really easily. Neither do I. But I mean , he's a very he's a slut , but he's not an emotional slut , I'll say that. You know what I mean ? He's really good with his boundaries , with people. He's like , This is all you're getting. So it's very actually surprised me to have a girlfriend , which I love her , and we're really good friends and he's such a good boyfriend. And it's I don't know , poly is just for us , it's been a it took me to be poly to be comfortable in this relationship into this lifestyle. So I was able to like be more myself. And we still do group stuff together. We still have a lot of time. It's a lot , a lot of sex with other people and.

S2: We still do get it. We were a kinky swinger party on Saturday and we did a bunch of group stuff.

S12: It was great. So it was just yeah , it's just but it's not it's not what it's all about now. And I can and I've realized , I think I've always been poly , you know , and I think the best part about being poly is I get to see what it's like when Taylor would fall , when he fell in love with his girlfriend. What ? How Gideon dorky and like a little like is because he doesn't he doesn't show it to you. So I got to see the things that I didn't get to see when he fell in love with me. Does that make sense ? And he got to see my. I don't like to fall in love. I get really scared about it and very anxious about it. And I'm like , I try to run away all the time. And so he got to see what it was like for me for falling in love. And he loves it , but we just I don't know. It's just it's kind of a cool mix. It makes Taylor almost more my best friend this way because we experienced that together and like , our kids know too. My favorite was when I told my kid and my middle child , who's about 17 years now or 16 years old now , they're really quite emotional. So I didn't know if they really were okay with everything because they wouldn't really talk about it. They were really quiet. So at breakfast one time , I said , Hey , you know , I said something like , Oh , I need to go somewhere. He's like , Oh , because you're going to go see your boyfriend. And I was like , Well , you know , like got nervous for a second because we just told the kids recently. And he's like , But it knows , you know , it's fine. And I was like , Hey , are you okay with everything ? And that's the best answer ever. And I said , Oh , my mom's in two consensual relationships. What will we do ? Like , there's like , there's worse things in the world. Mom. He's like , You don't even like if you're happy , you're happy. And I'm like , Wow , that was probably the best answer I've ever gotten.

S4: That also speaks to the fact that.

S1: You're raising children in.

S4: A culture that this.

S1: Is just the way that it is. The only reason why a kid would be like , Oh , that's weird because they were raised in a culture that said.

S4: That it was. Yeah.

S12: Yeah. And so like , you know , you don't you don't tell your kids about your sex life. No one should. So they just know about our relationships. And so and then , you know.

S2: Talk to them about like what a proper relationship should be , that it's a partnership that they should never feel like they're owned or or owed to someone or anything like that , that that if they're going to be in a relationship with someone , it's it's their equals with that person. And that consent is a big thing that they should never do anything that they don't want to do. We're not glorifying. Lying or fantasizing in poly or kink or anything like that. But we're using the the the teaching points of consent and equality and non-judgmental and just.

S12: Love is love is love. Like if you can love a person in the way you want to love a person as long as it's consensual.

S4:

S12: And so we go to like , I don't know , like 2 or 3 socials a month. Like , well.

S2: They get on the app. BLOOM The app.

S4: Bloom Get.

S12: On has.

S13: That's very.

S12: Blown up. It's very enum And they have the socials.

S2: Yeah So if you go on Bloom you get even you don't need to like we don't use Bloom to meet individuals we go there for the events. I'll have a lot of different events , some in person and some online things like that. So you can definitely meet people through through those. There'll be a lot of really good , good events that life is a lot more for kink , but there will be some stuff on there.

S12: Like a lot of those socials in any form. So yeah , so it's but they almost run in the same groups , you know. So you'll find a lot of kinky people have a poly meetup or , you know , so it's like it's kind of like almost experience your world and try it all a little bit. I think sometimes you'll see a lot of the same people there too. And then just , I don't know , establish your friends , ask a lot of questions , Don't be shy. That's the biggest thing is everyone in this community is socially awkward. I swear to God. It's like it's just a thing for me , right ? If you're kinky. Yeah , there's , like , the anomalies. But if you're like , kinky or poly or enum or whatever it is , some reason we're also all very socially awkward. But when we find our people , we're not right.

S2: Make sure you talk to your partner. Establish boundaries. If something happens , jealousy is going to pop up.

S13: They do. They pop up , you address it.

S12: It's a human nature thing.

S13: You're always be jealous.

S2: You address it. Don't keep any secrets. Don't don't be the only person with a secret. Something bothering you ? Because it's going to fester. Talk about it and have those difficult conversations. And remember , a difficult conversation is both is hard on both ends. Like if I go up to AJ and I ask her a question that I've been it's been taking me two weeks to ask. AJ I shouldn't be asking her for an answer right away because if it took me two weeks to gain the courage to ask her , she needs to process that because it's probably a really big question.

S12: It's also really nice to either establish poly friends and or people that just have been in the community for a while because it's a great networking system , right ? Because they're going to know a lot of people. They're going to a lot of groups. So it's and it's also like it's almost anything like it's almost like you have a.

S13: Mentor , but.

S2: It's all about again , it's all about having discussions and talking.

S13: At nauseum.

S1: So there you have it , my friends. And Introduction to Kink. I must say that this episode was super fun for me. I had a new experience with Tony and I got to learn a lot about living in a healthy , kinky relationship. But remember , all of this info is easy to find on your own. Essentially , this podcast is aiming to open a door for you so that you can see what's on the other side and then go explore it at your own pace. We all deserve some fun in our lives and I hope you go find yours. Be safe out there Beautiful's. See you next time everybody's doing it. Is produced and hosted by me. Miss Lolly for Bad for Media. Our executive producer is Parker Edison for Meridian Arts and our head editor is the talented Chris Reyes. I am so grateful these two don't blush easily. Adrian Villalobos is media production specialist. Lisa Jane Morissette is director of audio programming and operations and John Decker is senior director of Content Development. You can subscribe and find our newest episodes on Apple , Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This programming is made possible in part by the KPBS Explore Content Fund. Have fun out there. Beautiful. And thanks for listening.