Synagogue Shooting Suspect’s Invalid Gun License, Detention Center Neglect, Baby Rhino
Speaker 1: 00:00 The teenager accused of the mass shooting at the Habbat of Poway in April is scheduled to appear in court for a preliminary hearing on Monday, 19 year old. John Earnest is facing multiple charges in state and federal court, including murder and attempted murder for the shooting in which one woman was killed and three others injured. Among those charges are firearms violations. A search warrant initially revealed that the alleged shooter had a hunting certificate, but this week a state senator told 10 news that Ernest did not have a valid hunting license that would have been required to legally purchase an ar 15 rifle. It was previously claimed the weapon was legally purchased from a San Diego gun shop. Joining me is Jonathan Horne reporter with 10 news and Jonathan, welcome to the program. Speaker 2: 00:48 Thanks for having me, Maureen. Speaker 1: 00:50 How do we know that the accused shooter did not have a valid hunting license? Speaker 2: 00:54 Well, we found out in two ways. On Monday, I spoke to state Senator Anthony Portantino and he told me that the Department of Justice and fish and wildlife told him that Ernest did not have a valid hunting license, which you would need to buy that rifle at 19 years old unless you're military or police. However we knew he was not, so that's the first thing we found out. Then the next day I called fish and wildlife and they confirmed that the hunting license that Ernest had would not have been valid until July 1st of this year. Then as we all know, he carried out the attack on April 27th which would have been before it went into effect Speaker 1: 01:33 and do we know when and where he purchased the rifle? Speaker 2: 01:36 We do. He purchased it from San Diego guns, which is on Mission Gorge Road receipts show about $960 he picked it up on April 26th and allegedly carried out the attack the next day on April 27th which again was before July 1st Speaker 1: 01:50 what did the store have to say about the sale of the rifle? Speaker 2: 01:53 Well, it was interesting. I called the store on Tuesday. They were closed on Monday when the story first broke and I spoke to an employee very briefly and I told him what I was going to report that that Ernest did not have the valid hunting license and the employee said, no, no, we did everything possible. We did everything we could. He basically said they did everything by the book, but our reporting bears that something along the pipeline must've failed. Speaker 1: 02:17 Did a state Senator Portantino say why he allowed for a hunting license exception in this bill that prohibited the sale of firearms to people under the age of 21 Speaker 2: 02:27 I did ask him that and the essential answer I got was that the politics at the time dictated that he include that hunting exemption in the bill. He indicated to me that governor Jerry Brown likely would not have signed the bill if it did not have that hunting exception. Speaker 1: 02:42 Is this a loophole that he wants to close? Speaker 2: 02:45 In a sense he wants to change it. What he is going to do over the next month. The legislative session ends in early September is he is going to take away the exemption for center fire style assault. And so if you're under 21 and above 18 and want to buy a firearm for hunting, you will not be able to buy that Ar 15 style weapon that Ernest allegedly used in the attack. And is that likely to get support in the legislature and the signature of the governor? Well, we certainly know it could get the signature of the governor because on Friday he was in San Diego and he was asked about this and his comment at the microphone was, if you are old enough, if you're not old enough to buy a beer, enough said. So it sounds like he would sign this. Now the alleged shooter is facing the state and federal charges that I said earlier, he's pleaded not guilty. Speaker 2: 03:37 He's expected to be in court on Monday. What can we expect? Well, I think it's more administrative at this time, but I imagine we're going to be going to court a lot and hearing all sorts of things. Summer Stephan was talking to our reporter, Anthony Perro last night, and we asked her about the gun validity issue and she said that she could not comment. She didn't want to, uh, respect the investigation, but she said it will eventually come out. And how he got the gun will eventually be very clear. Okay. I've been speaking with Jonathan Horne. I reported with 10 news. Jonathan, thanks very much. Thank you. Maureen. music Speaker 1: 00:00 This summer. We've seen disturbing images from inside border detention centers. Some centers have packed immigrants into cells and left children without adequate care. But what about immigrants who enter the U s with injuries or health problems? How are they treated in detention? A report by voice of San Diego based in part on a California Attorney General's report and documents obtained through the freedom of Information Act, finds a history of medical neglect at the ty Mesa detention center. The only immigration detention facility in San Diego County. Joining me by Skype is voice of San Diego reporter Maya, Sri Christian and Maya. Welcome. Thank you for having me. You begin your report with the story of a current asylum seeker from Guatemala detained at Oti Mesa. What kind of medical problem does he have and how is he being treated? Speaker 2: 00:53 So, uh, this particular asylum seeker from Guatemala, he was suffering from a gunshot wound that he received in Guatemala that was related to his asylum claim. And he also, um, the way up to the u s picked up some condition where now his ears and eyes start to bleed sporadically. So, you know, while he's in the detention facility, he's gone to the medical staff there and has tried to get some sort of treatment. He remains undiagnosed according to his attorney and he's usually just given Ibuprofen. But since they don't know what's causing the bleeding from his ears and eyes, they are keeping him in solitary confinement just in case it's contagious. So, you know, now we have a man who's not really receiving the medical treatment he needs and is in solitary confinement at this 0.4 or five or six weeks a because they don't know whether he's contagious and they're not releasing him to let him seek out other medical treatment or anything like that. Speaker 1: 01:55 Now you talk in your report about a mumps outbreak at Oti Mesa. Is that still going on? Speaker 2: 02:01 Well, there's been several months outbreaks at this detention facility and other teching facilities in the past year. Um, I think just when you have a lot of people who are coming from these long journeys, you've maybe had to stay in shelters and various parts of Mexico and to want to, um, that maybe aren't the most sanitary conditions. You're getting a lot of people who are entering into the facility who already have compromised immune systems. So having outbreaks in these facilities, as far as I know, has, is fairly normal. Um, and it happens fairly frequently. Speaker 1: 02:35 You discovered a number of other stories about immigrants not getting proper medical care at Oti Mesa. Can you share some of those? Speaker 2: 02:42 I found some pretty disturbing things. I mean, there was one case where a man said that he was on hunger strike because the facility wouldn't provide a special diet that had actually been prescribed to him by another doctor at a different detention facility. Um, another man said that his, um, medical bag has cost me bag hadn't been changed in such a long time that his skin was burning, um, from the excrement that was leaking. Speaker 1: 03:12 What does immigration and customs enforcement have to say about these claims of medical neglect? Speaker 2: 03:18 They say that they are in line with national detention standards, um, and that everyone has access to medical care on a daily basis, uh, and that they screen detainees upon 12 hours of, of arriving at the facility. So, you know, they say that they are in compliance with everything that they need to be doing. Speaker 1: 03:36 And what kinds of facilities does Oti Mesa have to treat patients? Speaker 2: 03:40 So I operate, you know, there's like a medical, I guess you could call it a wing, you know, there's some examination rooms. Uh, and then if people require a specialist, uh, they will provide them transportation to go see outside specialists outside of the facility. Speaker 1: 03:56 Yeah. In the statement you received from ice, they say detainees are referred to outside primary care doctors and specialists as needed. Did you find that kind of referral happened in the cases you studied Speaker 2: 04:08 and the specific cases that I received, I did not see that in the detailed court cases. In some of the complaints, I did see that. So there were, um, this wasn't in the story, but there were some cases where someone maybe had broken their nose and had to have surgery and they got that surgery outside of the facility. Speaker 1: 04:26 Now you interviewed attorneys for asylum seekers who say that they're finding it more difficult now to get sick immigrants paroled out of detention. Tell us about that. Speaker 2: 04:36 So one of the attorneys I spoke with, I'm part of what she does in addition to representing people on their immigration claim. This I'm helping to get people out of detention. And one of the things she really focuses on people who have serious medical concerns and are deteriorating health wise in the detention facility. And she was saying that, you know, back in the spring she was having better luck if she would put together a parole packet, which is what they require to, um, have them release, which would basically say that they have no criminal history. Um, they're not a plight risk. They have a sponsor in the u s who would, you know, care for them and make sure that they go to their hearings. Um, and then she would include their medical conditions and oftentimes she would include like an outside doctor who would review their case and basically say that, you know, they were not safe staying in this facility. Um, and she had had some luck in the past with having people released if she would fill out those packets. Um, and she was saying that, um, recently she's tried very similar cases to ones that she's had released before and she hasn't been able to get them released. Speaker 1: 05:45 Who makes the determination whether someone can be transferred out of Oti Mesa? Speaker 2: 05:49 So it depends on how someone comes into the facility. But if an asylum seeker, for example, request asylum at a port entry, then they go through an ace officer and the ice officer basically has the discretionary ability to decide whether they should be released or not. If someone enters the country illegally, um, or as found in the country illegally, then they have to go through an immigration judge chair request. Speaker 1: 06:16 Now is there any legal action underway to challenge these alleged conditions of medical neglect at OTA Mesa? Speaker 2: 06:24 There have been a couple of civil cases in the past. I'm a family members who had passed away in the facility. The ACLU while ago had a lawsuit. Um, but as far as I know, there is nothing right now that is specifically just looking at medical care in the facility. Speaker 1: 06:45 I've been speaking with the voice of San Diego reporter Maya, Sri Krishnan, and Maya. Thank you very much. Speaker 2: 06:50 Well, thank you again for having me. Speaker 3: 06:55 [inaudible]. music Speaker 1: 00:00 For the past three days. The United Nations special Rockport tour on adequate housing has been touring the streets of San Diego. Her charge is to investigate whether cities are living up to international human rights laws on housing. Canadian attorney Laelani Farhod has been talking with people dealing with San Diego's unprecedented housing crisis and with city and county officials. She sat down with KPBS reporter Max Rivlin Nadler to talk about what she's learned. Speaker 2: 00:29 What have you seen during your visit to San Diego? Speaker 3: 00:32 I've seen a lot of homelessness, but to be honest, I've seen some really heartbreaking situations. Um, people living in really extreme life-threatening circumstances. Uh, and we have to remember that of course the u s is the richest country in the world and California is a really wealthy state. And yet people I saw are living on the pavements on sidewalks intense. I saw people living in their cars. I met a single mom with three children, one of whom was three years old, living in her little white car. I, I met people, older people today in particular who were living in RVs, um, made worse by the fact that their attempts to just survive are being criminalized. So they're being constantly inter interacted with by the police and harassed by the police. They're ticketed, fined, they can, they face misdemeanors. They've gone to jail just for trying to live. So it's, it's pretty stark and really unacceptable from a human rights obligations point of view. Speaker 2: 01:36 The city council recently passed a bill making it illegal for people to live in their cars in certain areas of the city. Does this help exacerbate the housing crisis? Speaker 3: 01:45 There are a lot of people in San Diego who have no choice but to live in cars and RVs because they can't afford the cost of housing here. It's a really expensive place to live and if you're on low income or moderate income even, it's really tough to eek out an existence here. So, um, and criminalizing is obviously contrary to human rights. Um, and it also further stigmatizes those who are living in homelessness and allows more affluent segments of the population to look down on, on people living in homelessness to say, Oh look, they're, you know, involved with the police and you know, they must be dangerous or drug abusers or, and all those sorts of things. Speaker 2: 02:29 How has the rental market in California and across the country fundamentally changed in a post 2008 world where you have actors like the Blackstone group, private equity groups, um, moving into the rental market and, uh, just trying to earn money for their investors as opposed to provide adequate housing? Speaker 3: 02:46 Yeah, so we have seen the housing landscape shift and change entirely since 2008 and really since 2011 when those big financial actors, the private equity firms like, and others, big asset management firms, pension funds, insurance companies, started to invest unprecedented amounts of wealth and money in residential real estate. W one to, um, grow wealth to make it have a good return on investment for their investor clients. But also they use residential real estate as a way to leverage more capital to keep accumulate, accumulating wealth and buying more properties, et cetera. It's having a devastating effect on cities around the world. I haven't investigated that as much as I would like to in San Diego. Uh, but sure. It's a problem in northern California where I visited a year and a half ago. Uh, and, and in other places in the u s Speaker 1: 03:44 today you met with officials from both the city and county of San Diego. How did that go? Speaker 3: 03:49 No one with whom I spoke with at within the city or the county was proud of the homelessness crisis in the city. I'm hopeful that political will and that interest in the issue will translate in to human rights outcomes. One of the things that, um, I think the city needs to grapple with is like what is an appropriate response to the situation. And I would really encourage them to better acquaint themselves with what are international human rights obligations are and to start using that to determine policy programs, ordinances or lack of ordinances. I would love to see a moratorium on the criminalization of, of homelessness in this city. Speaker 1: 04:31 That was Canadian attorney led Lonnie Farhod, the United Nations special Rapa tour on adequate housing, speaking with KPBS reporter Max Rivlin Nadler. Speaker 4: 04:45 Uh. music Speaker 1: 00:00 High gas prices have, San Diego is losing enough money at the pump without being scammed. So UC San Diego researchers have introduced a new device that can detect credit card skimmers at gas stations. The new skimmers use wireless Bluetooth technology. So researchers are using a smartphone app to locate them. Joining me is KPBS science and technology reporter Shalina, Chad Lani and Shalina welcome. Hey, thanks for having me. Give us the skimmer one oh one introduction. How do they work to pick up credit card numbers at the pump? Sure. So skimmers have been around for a while since uh, around the two thousands. And criminals used to basically use these really clunky physical overlays that would be put on top of card readers at ATM and they would copy your credit card information and sometimes there would even be a little micro cameras installed around them to see what pin information that you were putting in. Speaker 1: 00:58 And now that's evolved to be these, uh, soldered devices that involved just around eight to 10 parts that you can buy on the dark web illicitly or by commercially that has this Bluetooth capability. So you no longer have to go back to the gas pump to retrieve that information that you've collected physically. You can actually just sit in your car and get that information wirelessly transmitted to your iPhone in a very short amount of time. And what do thieves do with these numbers? Well, of course they're taking your money. Uh, the secret service says one of these skimmers with a basic card chip inside of it can hold anywhere between 10 to 2000 card numbers and transmit that back to a thief. So in a short time frame, multiply that by the 500 skimmers that the secret service said it found last year and you have potentially hundreds of millions of dollars in fraud. Speaker 1: 02:01 So you're telling this once these skimmers have been attached to the gas station, all the swiping transactions can be monitored and the credit numbers stolen if one of these skimmers is on it. Yeah, that, I mean, essentially that's what the criminals want to do in a nutshell. And what's interesting about these Bluetooth skimmers is that they are even more difficult to find. So a criminal will drive up in a big van to a gas station, pump, open up the doors so that it attendant doesn't see quickly, take out the gas station, pump a actual interface, and stick this skimmer into the actual circuitry of the pump. So as a consumer, there's nothing physical that you can actually see to show you that this exists. And that's the point. They just want to be able to wirelessly get as many card numbers as they can in a short amount of time before it's detected. Speaker 1: 02:55 Now what does this new UC San Diego app do to stop that? Sure. So Lou tooth is essentially a radio wave frequency. And that's the reason why when you open up your iPhone and you're looking for your Bluetooth speaker for example, your phone detects that frequency. So what these researchers did, um, when they were having conversations with the secret service about what types of problems they were facing, the Secret Service said this Bluetooth skimmer is a problem. And so they said, well, why don't we do a massive study of thousands of gas stations and figure out what frequencies the skimmers have? And what they discovered is that the skimmers tend to have a particular pattern of frequency and so the application detects those. It Scans for all of the Bluetooth devices in the area, but then narrows it down and highlights those specific frequencies which are suspect and are likely to be that Bluetooth skimmer who will actually be using this UC San Diego app to uncover skimmers, not the secret service. Speaker 1: 03:56 Right now the secret service will not be using the application and it will not be using the data. The app will actually just be pushed out to local law enforcement like so gas station inspectors locally that would like to use the tool and then the researchers at UC San Diego are keeping the data and if they want to they can give leads to the secret service as to where they might need to look where skimming activities happening. So both the old, the physical skimmers and the new Bluetooth skimmers can steal credit card numbers when customers swipe their cards at the gas station. What about chip card readers? So chip card readers are a more secure form of technology. And as far as the UC San Diego researchers know, the skimmers are not able to pick up information from a chip. Why don't gas stations switch to chip credit card readers? Speaker 1: 04:45 Gas stations are kind of slow to switching to the chip card readers simply because it's expensive to upgrade your technology. Uh, the secret service agent that I spoke to said it can cost tens of thousands of dollars to upgrade one pump with the, uh, with a new chip reader and for a mom and pop gas station that might be financially disastrous and very difficult for them for a chain that might be a little bit easier, but there's new legislation that might make it more cost effective for them to consider putting chip readers in. Well, so the legislation is actually a push from the credit card industry because the fraudulent activity comes back on them. They have to figure out how to give that money back to the consumer or cancel the debt of the consumer. So they would rather that burden be on the retailer. So this new law, which goes into effect in October, 2020 doesn't require gas stations to get these chip readers. Speaker 1: 05:43 But it essentially says that if you don't have a chip reader and there's fraudulent activity at your gas station that is on you, so you have to figure out how to pay that money back. So it's kind of, you know, a lot of gas stations, especially the smaller ones, are kind of between a rock and a hard place here. Because let's say there's a skimmer that ends up costing you tens of thousands of dollars because he didn't put in a chip reader. It's, you know, w what do you end up having to spend your money on and how are you going to maintain your, your bottom line? I've been speaking with KPBS science and technology reporters, Shalina, Chet, Lonnie and Shalina. Thank you. Thanks for having me. music Speaker 1: 00:00 The baby rhino born at the San Diego Zoo. Safari Park two and a half weeks ago is thriving under the watchful eye of Mam. KPBS reporter Eric Anderson says, the birth or to say is an important milestone on the long journey to save a rhino species hovering close to extinction. Speaker 2: 00:19 Victoria led little Edward Out of their barn into an exercise paddock. They're not quite three week old. Southern White Rhino is feisty and keep her Johnny Cup. Piro says Edward wants mom to play along. Speaker 3: 00:35 He's trying to engage her and play and she just might not be feeling as excited and as playful like a typical mom. Speaker 2: 00:42 Edward also enjoys the muddy area in the middle of the pen. Computer says that the calf is curious and full of energy, especially in the mornings. Speaker 3: 00:55 He is very bold. He's really silly and playful. Um, he's a good addition to our fe, our Rhino family here. He fits right in and he's doing well with his mom. Speaker 2: 01:05 Mom is particularly attentive, occasionally shielding her son from [inaudible] fuckers. It's a protective spirit that keepers are happy to see and they're pleased. The calf who's packing on the weight. He was 148 pounds, just two days after birth. Now the little rhino weighs 220 pounds. Got Piro, says he'll add about 25 pounds a month during his first year of life. Edward's playful passion has zoo officials excited, but the zoos, reproductive physiologist, Barbara Duran says they're most pleased at the young rhino is here at all. Speaker 3: 01:42 So this is our first successful artificial insemination and it was with frozen semen. That's, that's only happened once before in the whole world and it's the first artificially inseminated calf in North America. Speaker 2: 01:55 Duran says Edward represents an important lifeline and the effort to save the critically endangered northern white rhino. Only two are still alive and both are too old to breed. Duran says Edward's mom. Victoria is one of six southern White Rhino. Females playing a critical role in the northern white rhino struggle against extinction Speaker 3: 02:16 and now we know that Victoria is what we call a proven female. So she, we know she can conceive, she can carry a fetus to term, she can give birth and she can take care of it. That's really important for us because in the future Victoria and the other girls here at the Rhino rescue center are going to be surrogates for northern white rhino embryos. Speaker 2: 02:36 Sorry, I just are still working out how to create northern white embryos from frozen cell samples. That gives to read time to get each of the six southern whites pregnant twice, once by artificial insemination and once by embryo implantation. Speaker 3: 02:51 Once we're ready with northern white rhino embryos, these females, we'll each have had two calves so we know that they're fully capable. Speaker 2: 02:58 Victoria has already taken Speaker 4: 03:00 that first step and another member of the herd is close. Postdoctoral fellow Parker Pennington says another Rhino Female Amani is about 400 days into her pregnancy and a person might think that she would show it. No. Well, um, they're quite large animals and they don't show their pregnancy quite so much. Speaker 2: 03:19 Pennington says the calf is located in the back half of the belly near the hind legs. She typically uses an ultrasound wand that gives researchers glimpses of the calf. She just doesn't get a complete picture because the ultrasound is small and the calf is large Speaker 4: 03:34 because it does sit so deep into her belly, we can actually see it. Um, and we can even detect movement on occasion when it's feeling active. Speaker 2: 03:42 Amani still has about a hundred days to go and her pregnancy, but so far, Pennington says she's tracked right along with the pregnancy that Victoria went through. She says the rhinos are helping teach researchers. Speaker 4: 03:54 They're giving us some of the, um, the first ever information like this. Um, they're allowing us access so that we can actually see what's going on, um, and get some measurements. On occasion we can measure things like heart or a heart rate. And so that's new information for us Speaker 2: 04:13 with one playful rhino calf already on the ground. And another one close attention is turning to the rest of the herd. And the hope is that maybe a couple of more rhinos will be pregnant by the end of the year. Eric Anderson KPBS news Speaker 5: 04:37 [inaudible]. Speaker 1: 00:00 It seems like there's music everywhere during summertime in San Diego, and we've got some of our own on mid edition in a series we're calling our San Diego summer music series. There's always been something special about the sound of a family band. Think the Jackson five, the Allman brothers, the beach boys, San Diego has a family band of its own. This scene, monks, two brothers who love playing rockabilly than their dad. And finally they were joined by a guitar player. They couldn't help but call uncle. They recently performed and talked with us in the KPBS studio. Here are the sea monks with their version of Amos Moses. Oh, well. Speaker 2: 00:50 [inaudible] oh, [inaudible] Speaker 3: 01:06 [inaudible] Speaker 2: 01:26 [inaudible] [inaudible] delegate. Who's going to get you on this phone for his dad with respite in swell? Elegant man [inaudible] made the man Speaker 3: 02:09 a fair amount of McLeod total lanes. Speaker 2: 02:17 Okay. Never bought around salary. [inaudible] relative to the swamp, Trevor, now and get a scan. [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] Speaker 1: 04:16 thank you so much. That was Amos. Moses performed by this sea monks and the seam OnX, our dad, Jason Kept Chin Ski on base. Noah Kapcinski vocals and guitar. Kai kept ski on drums and Uncle Eric quotes Jeff Houk on guitar then welcome to you all. Thanks for having us. Now let me ask you guys, Noah and Kai, did dad start you guys performing when you were kids? Well, we had been doing a thing as a, as a duo for awhile playing elementary school craft fairs and we really felt like we needed a bass player to fill out our sound. So we asked our dad to join us and he eventually decided that he wanted to and began taking base lessons about a base. You didn't know how to play the bass? I did not. In fact, I almost said no at first cause I was intimidated, but I'm real thankful. Speaker 1: 05:03 I said yes. Now I have to tell everybody they wouldn't know by listening. But Noah, you're just turned 17 right? Yes. And Kai, you're 13 yes. 13 what got you into play music so early on? Well, my dad got me guitar lessons and got me a guitar because I was kinda interested in. But then when I really got into was when I first heard Johnny Cash. I heard him do Folsom prison blues and I kind of just immediately knew like that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be like Johnny Cash. So I'm just trying to chase that. And Chi did you want to be like Johnny Cash or did you want to be like Noah? I um, originally started off with violin lessons cause that's what my dad used to play when he was a kid and I thought it was like really cool cause it, my dad did it. Speaker 1: 05:43 I didn't like it as much as I thought I would. So then I went to Guitar Mandolin and then finally ended up at drums. So yeah, I, I've always liked rock and roll kind of now really liking rockabilly starting to like country more and more. And a lot of the old hip hop stuff I like to, so we will, speaking of country, you performed Amos Moses, which was a big hit for country singer Jerry Reed back in the day. Do you guys perform mostly cover songs? Mostly, but we're working on more and more original material. And then you guys are going to be performing a song for us that you've written. Can you tell us what that is? Oh, the song's called gasoline and it's one of our originals, so, okay, thank you. Let's hear it. Speaker 2: 06:37 [inaudible] she got were at least she got skinny legs. She jokes about braid last, but she's up. I don't know what to do. She got gas or it on [inaudible] walks away as a slave, but yes. [inaudible] okay. [inaudible] the lower left that don't know a rass. It says [inaudible]. Oh, she's a [inaudible]. Yes. [inaudible] Speaker 1: 08:43 thank you. Gasoline performed by the sea monks. Thank you so much. Now Jason, a lot of times, I mean I just heard this, I don't know actually, but siblings don't along with each other. I mean sometimes it's that sometimes happens, sometimes happens. Does that happen in your family band? Speaker 4: 09:02 These guys do pretty well for the most part, but just like any family that of course there are. There were moments and I would say early on that it was a little, I was a little bit of a referee, although I'm sure they'll tell you sometimes. It was me that as being the pain in the neck too, you know? But it's also just created a camaraderie that I think is really special. Speaker 1: 09:19 What are the benefits that you see in working in a family band? Like what else has it done Speaker 4: 09:24 as we've been doing this a few years now? I see, I see the boy's responsibility level going upward where they're now helping me more with like packing the gear and loading up without being asked as much. And I think I'm, they're learning a lot about a work ethic, you know, here we are, we, we worked, we lifted stuff, we set up or we're singing, we're sweating and people are putting money in the tip jar because we worked hard. Speaker 1: 09:45 And Kai, what have you learned? You know, I've learned to uh, not argue as much with the guitar player and also like we were saying earlier, like seeing the money go on the tip jar. It definitely makes me want to work a lot harder. Like you see me playing at home a lot more, setting up my drum kit, just jamming out in the garage for a long time. So it definitely, definitely makes me want to work harder and go rehearse more and do all that. Thank you guys for being a part of our San Diego summer music series. Jason kept Chansky Noah Kaczynski, Kai Kapcinski and Uncle Jeff Houk, the sea monks. Thank you so much for being here. It's been great. Thanks for having us. Speaker 2: 10:33 [inaudible] Speaker 1: 10:35 the sea play a variety of venues around the county. There'll be at Encinitas cruise night tonight, and you can see them this Saturday afternoon at the grand old barbecue. Flynn Springs, El Cahone. Now next week we feature the euphoria brass band. Speaker 2: 10:51 Well, is this, just give it to them, David? It go nothing, nothing. [inaudible] you're always walking on stage. [inaudible] [inaudible] the shocks that was handed up some old voters row your boat or something. [inaudible].