Jobs report shows some minor bright spots for San Diego

S1: The latest jobs report shows unemployment is down and workers are gaining more leverage.

S2: Things are looking up and I expect that the situation will be similar here in San Diego.

S1: I'm Andrew Bowen with Maureen CAVANAUGH. This is KPBS Midday Edition. On this Labor Day. Polls show American support for unions is at its highest in 57 years.

S3: I think that most people have reevaluated the need for unions because they've just made it through this pandemic. They've seen really what can happen with staggering income inequality.

S1: A new series dives into what's been dubbed the largest Ponzi scheme in San Diego history. And a local nonprofit is working to make Ebikes more affordable to the working class. That's ahead on KPBS Midday Edition. Amid high inflation and looming recession indicators , the U.S. economy still managed to add 315,000 jobs during the month of August. And while San Diego continues to boast one of the lowest overall unemployment rates in the country , its overall labor force participation is down. Joining us now with the regional economic outlook is Professor Alan Jin , an economist at the University of San Diego. And Professor Jen , welcome.

S2: Thanks for having me.

S1:

S2: We added over 300,000 jobs in August. And the unemployment rate , although ticked up some to 3.7% , is still near historic lows. Any time you're of 4% , that is considered full employment then by by economists. And so the labor market is pretty strong right now. It's kind of tight. And that means that that workers are enjoying a lot of benefits as a result of that.

S1: Good news on this Labor Day for them , I guess.

S2: We're seeing a rebound in terms of employment nationally. We have gained back all the private sector jobs that we had lost during the pandemic. We're actually up a quarter million jobs nationwide compared to where we were before the pandemic , at least in the private sector. There have been losses in terms of government employment , which leads the overall level to still be a little bit lower than than before the pandemic. But things are looking up , and I expect that the situation will be similar here in San Diego.

S1: I remember early in the pandemic , one of the biggest fears in San Diego was about the tourism and hospitality industry.

S2: It lost the most jobs during the pandemic. More than 50% of the jobs in that sector were lost between February and April , the end of 2020. That was the depth of the of the pandemic. We've gained back a lot of those jobs , but we're still not quite there yet. Nationwide , we're down about 1.1 million jobs then in terms of leisure , hospitality , and as a result of that , restaurants continue to have difficulty finding workers. I just went and had some fast food yesterday and again , the Help Wanted signs were all over the place where restaurants are trying to get workers.

S1: Inflation is obviously on the minds of many Californians , San Diegans.

S2: On top of what's happening nationally in terms of food and gas prices , we also have high housing prices , although they've come down somewhat. So so that just adds an extra burden to us here. Then in San Diego , things are improving. You know , gas prices have come down steadily over the last couple of months. They are projected to continue to fall into the into the fourth quarter of this year. My projection is that if the trend continues , as the forecasts are correct , the average price of gas should be down to about 450 by the end of the year. So that that's that's an improvement. Still still high , historically bad , but again , better compared to where we were. We were the.

S1: State wrapped up its legislative session last week now that the San Diego City Council is also about to come back from its summer recess.

S2: We have just a severe housing crisis. Prices are high. It's difficult for a lot of people to afford to live in San Diego. So as a result of that , they're leaving the area. Some are even now becoming homeless. ALVAREZ Both of that. And so I think we need to do a lot then to address the housing situation and we need to help the homeless. We need to get more affordable housing out there.

S1: We've been hearing a lot of talk and debate about whether the country is experiencing a recession right now.

S2: Traditionally , that has been an indication of a recession , but that is just a rule of thumb. And the actual definition of recession is determined then by the National Bureau of Economic Research. They have their business cycle timing committee , and they have not made any sort of determinations then as far as that's concerned. If you look at the normal measures that measure economic activity , things like employment , things like production , real income , real spending , most of those are still up. We talked earlier today about employment rising. You usually don't see that during a recession. So there were some quirks with the GDP reports that make that two quarter rule not operative in this situation , for example , in the first quarter. A big part of the reason the GDP was down was imports were up. Now , imports being up means a lot of money and money flowing out of the economy. We're buying a lot of stuff from overseas , so eventually that may have some negative impact. But that's also a sign of a strength in the economy. If the U.S. economy is doing well , people are going to be buying more , including buying more stuff from overseas. So that increase in imports we saw in the first quarter actually may have been a sign of strength in terms of the U.S. economy and that contributed to the downturn. So again , that's why I think this these two quarter rule is not not operative in this situation.

S1: All right. I've been speaking with Alvin Jin , an economist at the University of San Diego. And Alan , thanks for joining us.

S2: Thanks for having me.

S4: Labor unions have won some high profile victories in the last year. Employees at outlets of major name chain stores such as Starbucks , Trader Joe's and Chipotle have voted to unionize. Plus , an Amazon warehouse in New York and an Apple factory in Baltimore. Here in California , the state legislature just passed a bill to make it easier for farm workers to vote in union elections and a plan to set up a first in the nation council to oversee wages and working conditions in fast food chains was signed today by Governor Newsom. But overall , union membership dropped slightly last year. Some doubt these sporadic victories mark a trend. Joining me is Lorena Gonzalez , executive secretary and treasurer of the California Labor Federation. And Lorena , welcome.

S3: Thank you , Maureen. Good to see you.

S4: So a recent Gallup poll found 71% of Americans approve of labor unions. Now , that number seemed surprising to me after years of union decline.

S3: But as you said , we have a lot of work to do still. I think that most people have reevaluated the need for unions because they've just made it through this pandemic. They've seen really what can happen with staggering income inequality. They see this rise of billionaires and corporations doing whatever they want. And everybody feels a little insecure about being in the middle class. And so I think it's time that people are like , hey , those unions , that might be something.

S4: So some people are pointing to the hot jobs market as giving employees more incentive to improve their working conditions.

S3: Because what we're seeing , even all the examples that you gave , those corporations. Aren't.

S2: Aren't.

S3: Sitting down at the table yet. They're not willing to accept the union election. But in past years , when a corporation wouldn't accept it , they'd fired their workers or they closed down a shop and and workers would be afraid. Now we're changing things a little in that sense.

S4: What about union organizing ? Has that changed ? For instance , The New York Times recently profiled a Rhodes scholar who intentionally went to work in Starbucks to help workers organize.

S3: You have situations like that where you have individuals who maybe grew up working class , went off , got educated , come back and are really committed to seeing what is happening in our economy , committed to changing things. And you see that time and time again. But you also see the workers themselves taking the power in their hands. And in for example , if you look at the Amazon campaigns , Chris Smalls , who is the president of that independent union and is organizing Amazon , is the rank and file worker. He , you know , he isn't didn't come out of a union. He didn't come out of union organizing. But he's learning and teaching workers how to organize themselves at work.

S4: Lorena , when you were a member of the California Assembly , you worked on legislation to improve and standardize working conditions for workers in the gig economy.

S3: So it's not just the gig companies. It's billionaires like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk , who and of course , the CEOs of Uber and Lyft who maybe don't have the same name recognition , all of whom have they have become billionaires , quite frankly , off the hard work of other folks. They're talking about things like going to Mars when people can't even pay the rent. And I think that is starting to set in with folks that it is patently unfair. And that became even more obvious during the pandemic that folks who had to go to work , they had to risk their lives , they had a risk of catching COVID in order that other people could stay home and work safely from home. And so I think those kind of divisions and what people saw as , wait a minute , you're calling me an essential worker , and yet you're off getting rich off my hard labor and my risk. I think workers , you know , we're very aware of that. They're seeing how the income inequality in what has been allowed to happen has caused problems like homelessness and the housing crunch , and that affects everybody.

S4: How significant is the new state legislation on creating a fast Food Employees Oversight Council ? It's not really a labor union.

S3: It's not a traditional American labor union. The sectorial council idea is actually popular throughout Europe and what it allows is in a hard to organize. Industry is to force employers. The franchises like McDonald's , Burger King , Jack in the Box , the franchisees. So even the small businessmen who own the small individual franchises and the workers all at the table with government officials to talk about standards and conditions in hourly wages. And when you get the opportunity to have an isolated discussion with the employer and with the workers and not talk through sound bites that may sound okay but are not true , and instead have a realistic conversation about profits , about what people can live on , and about the conditions under which they work. I think that's really exciting. It's a whole new level of bargaining and it's a different level of coming up with regulations. And I think it's something that could take off for not just fast food workers , but other industries as well.

S4:

S3: A lot of it we're seeing , you know , jobs that I hadn't ever even thought about or really looked at insurance industry folks. You know , we have an active campaign with triple A. It is everywhere. Of course , some of the most , I think , obvious that people are watching right now are in the retail and service sector. And so we're seeing it , of course , at Starbucks , like you suggested , Apple , even Trader Joe's Chipotle. And I think we're going to continue to. But the reality is everybody who works for a living is starting to look at what am I actually getting out of this ? What are what ? What ? Who's out there protecting me ? How do I work with other people , my workplace , to have a collective voice ? And that way we can fight back. And of course , you know , I'm super excited about the work that's being done in warehouses , in particular in the Inland Empire. We had over 150 warehouse workers walk out on the job because , of course , they're working in this blazing heat , two in really unsafe working conditions. And so it's all over the place. And I think we're going to see a lot of union activity over the next few years in every industry.

S4: I've been speaking with Lorena Gonzalez. She's executive secretary and treasurer of the California Labor Federation. Lorena , thank you and happy Labor Day.

S3: Thank you , Maureen. Happy Labor Day.

S1: This is KPBS Midday Edition in for Jade Hindman. I'm Andrew Bowen with Maureen CAVANAUGH. Since the U.S. military withdrew from Afghanistan last year , some American veterans have been scrambling to help their Afghan allies escape the collapsing country. Though some have succeeded , most have not , and the stress has taken a toll on their health. Carson Frame reports for the American Homefront Project.

S3: Eric Takashima , a retired Marine colonel in North Carolina , says the last year and a half has been an insane whirlwind getting people out of Afghanistan.

S5: There was the first family of four , then a single guy , then a family of two , then the family of nine. So that's 21.

S3: Takashima served as a forward operating base commander in Afghanistan until 2020. More than a dozen locals lived and worked at the outpost , and he grew close to several of them.

S5: When I left , I told them all that if they ever needed anything , they should just let me know.

S3: A few months before the U.S. pullout , Hiroshima heard from his former interpreter , Mansor , whose full name were withholding because he fears for his relative safety in Afghanistan. The State Department allowed Mansoor to come to the U.S. on a special immigrant visa , or SIV , which are set aside for Afghans who worked with American forces. But Mansoor couldn't afford the cost for his family and him to come here. So Terre Shima sent Mansoor the money and launched a go fund me for the family.

S2: But he asked me , will I let him to buy my plane tickets for me and my family members ? He said , But I want you and your loved ones to be safe and say , wherever I plan to go in the U.S. , he will help and support me to get resettled and find a job. I was almost crying. It was like a miracle for me.

S3: Mansoor resettled in Dallas and now works as a cook and truck driver. Takashima went on to help other Afghans evacuate and became involved with several nonprofit agencies that support refugees. He's also now running for the North Carolina state legislature , but he hasn't been able to get all of his Afghan colleagues out.

S5: A lot of my friends who are still over there don't have the means to support themselves. And so they're contacting me , telling me that they're basically starving. And I'm like , I'm not going to let my friend starve , so I'm sending them money.

S3: Many veterans are struggling to balance their own needs with feelings of obligation toward Afghans left behind. Kim Tafuri heads the Association of Wartime Allies , where she advocates for savvy applicants alongside many veterans.

S2: The thoughts and emotions that come to mind for them.

S3: Thinking about leaving someone.

S2: Behind in a situation like that , someone that stood side by side with them , in some cases right on the battlefield.

S4: It really is.

S2: Becoming a pretty significant mental health. Issue.

S3: Issue. Stephanie says that going in. Some veterans didn't understand how difficult and time consuming the SIV process could be. They came with true intent and good hearts and really wanted to help people.

S2: And a year.

S3: Later , most of them have not been successful. Advocates are calling on the Biden administration and Congress to allow more Afghans to come to the U.S.. Many are now caught up in a visa processing backlog , while others don't qualify for special immigrant visas. Kris Purdy is with Veterans for American Ideals and Outreach. He says reforms could not only help Afghans , but the U.S. veterans they served alongside.

S5: We've lost people to suicide. We've lost people to health issues. We've lost people to who just are burnt out and they can't do it anymore. And and the guilt and the shame that they feel for not being able to help the last three people on their lists , for example. It's going to carry with them for the rest of our lives.

S3: The Biden administration says it's trying to reduce the SIV backlog. In July , it increased the number of workers reviewing Afghan civil applications and cut some of the paperwork. Meanwhile , a bill before Congress could create more immigration pathways for Afghans. This is Carson Frame reporting.

S1: This story was produced by the American Homefront Project , a public media collaboration that reports on American military life and veterans. Funding comes from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

S4: Over the course of nearly a decade , Gina Champion Cain swindled hundreds of millions of dollars from unsuspecting investors in what would be the largest Ponzi scheme in San Diego history. Now , more than two years since she pled guilty to her crimes , a new series from the San Diego Union-Tribune attempts to tell the full story of the woman who has been called the Bernie Madoff of San Diego. Reporter Lori Weisberg spoke with Midday Edition co-host Jade Heineman about the new series of stories she wrote with Greg Moran for the Union-Tribune. Your story begins with Gina champion Cain in a courtroom talking about her experiences not as a perpetrator , but as a victim of a Ponzi scheme. Tell us about that.

S3: Ryan , it's very ironic , this financial fraud that she found herself the victim of. This is before she started her own Ponzi scheme. But the testimony she gave was in the midst of her Ponzi scheme. She and some partners were trying to do a really big project downtown , a $300 million project , hotel offices , condos , retail. And they need they needed , of course , some financing. So they found this investment fund out of Florida , had some connections to European wealth , and they were promised some funding. They just needed to put down a $300,000 deposit. And then they waited for the funding to come. They have an agreement and they waited and they waited and the funding wasn't coming. And they were getting more desperate because the option on this property and ultimately the funding never came and they never got their deposit back. They were defrauded and the project never came to pass. And the irony was that by the time she was testifying in the in the case involving these fraudsters , she was in the midst of her own Ponzi scheme. What type of business was she in and when did the fraud start ? A lot of people probably know Gina Champion Kane best in her most recent career , which was a high profile restaurateur. She did some real estate development. Going back decades , she was known more as a real estate person , a developer during downtown redevelopment days. But as I say , more people are familiar with her patio themed restaurants. She did some short term rentals at the beach , but mostly through her dining and dining venues. And that's what she was known for. Hmm.

S4: Hmm. You know , I'm curious about how the media helped elevate her profile. I mean , you note a flurry of favorable stories pictured atop a monopoly board or towering above the San Diego skyline.

S3: She was really more kind of a broker or a promoter or a connector , so to speak. But she wasn't the big developer she made herself out to be. And I myself , once she became a restaurant tour , and then she started getting into short term rentals and other projects. I did a Q&A with her , you know , talking about , wow , how is she just juggling all this , all these enterprises ? And I believe that it was all a very real thing and obviously had no idea that she was in the midst of a Ponzi scheme. So , yes , I guess we do bear some responsibility for elevating that image. And you quote a former federal.

S4: Prosecutor who worked on the case saying that what champion Cain did was , quote , a special level of deceit and callousness and , quote.

S3: What made it.

S4: Especially deceitful and callous.

S3: She started with her closest friends , friends , two of whom have been friends for more than 30 years. And I think that's what he's referring to , that you could have deceived your closest friends , these people that you had this relationship with , that you would think would have a level of trust between you and she was even deceiving them.

S4:

S3: Personal loans were a fabrication. They didn't exist. $400 million blew through the system. But ultimately , the level of net losses that these people thought they would never get back was about $180 million. You know , some of them were , you know , well-heeled investors. Some of them were actually banks and financial institutions , but some of them were retirees. There was a retired teacher. There were people that invested their life savings. Hmm.

S4: Hmm. She ultimately pled guilty to a number of fraud charges and other crimes.

S3: She I think she expected to get less because the federal prosecutors were recommending 11 years because they said that she had cooperated. But she got 15 years and she is in federal prison camp. So it's not like what you think are like prison or jail cells. So it's a dormitory style living. It's a federal prison camp. So you have visions of , you know , like your typical jail cell. That's not what life is like there.

S4:

S3: It was a big title , insurance company , Chicago title , that Gina used to help keep people's money , they say. That's what she told the investors in escrow account. So ultimately , they were deep pocketed and nearly all the victims soon Chicago title believing that they were culpable of a scheme. Now , Chicago title was never admitted to any liability. But right now , they have already paid out more than $160 million in settlements. And just just this last week , there was another proposed settlement of more than 20 million. That would be the last of the settlements. At the end of the day , it appears that these victims could potentially get 90 to 95% of their losses back , which as the judge in this case just said a few days ago. That is phenomenal. It's almost unprecedented.

S4: That was San Diego Union Tribune reporter Laurie Weisberg speaking with Jade Heineman. Live theater in San Diego has had its difficulties getting back up on its feet since the pandemic shutdowns. Local theater companies , large and small , have noted audiences have been slow to return. And in North Hollywood , up in L.A. , some audiences will never return because half of its smallest theaters have now closed permanently. KCR Megan Jamieson reports that those closures mean fewer opportunities for actors and writers to practice their craft and build community.

S3: Even when things are great. Ronnie Marmo says there's not much money running a small theater.

S6: You break even is a big part of , you know what I mean ? So first of all , there's that we were always starting uphill anyway , even when things that were before the pandemic.

S3: Marmo says there's a hint to that reality in the name of Theater 68. That's how many cents he had in his bank account when he founded the company during his nearly two decades in the neighborhood. The venue ran around 90 productions. When the pandemic shutdown hit , Marmo started teaching acting classes on Zoom to replace lost revenue. But eventually it wasn't enough.

S6: So it started to feel like 19 years later it was like full circle , you know ? And so I just thought it was over and that was it. And I kind of had made peace with that.

S3: But if you love it , the theater is really hard to give up. And since 1992 , when the NoHo Arts District was formed , it's become an important training ground in L.A. for people like Christian , Tela Smart.

S2: So much for fighting for the community to get here and wearing masks.

S3: On the way. Tell us , Ma was the director at This Summer Playwrights Festival at the Road Theater. It's a 66 seat venue about a half mile from Theater 68. He says pre-pandemic NoHo was the kind of place where on a Friday night you could go for a walk and feel a certain excitement.

S7: It was a vibrant life for us happening where people were very face to face , very excited. Theater was cool. The visual art was awesome like they were. There are just so many things happening in that area.

S3: Tell us. Ma was a grad student studying theater in Seattle before he moved to NoHo in 2014 to pursue TV acting. Eventually he felt the pull to return to the stage.

S7: And there was a beautiful community to jump right in that was intimate theater and I found it within a year or two of being out here. And that literally is the reason why I got acting on television , just because they saw me in a play.

S3: A casting director saw him and he landed his first gig. He also got a TV agent this way. But now , with the number of theaters shrinking , actors won't get as much exposure. There are also now fewer places for writers to showcase experimental work. And with finances tight , some theaters might be tempted to stick to more mainstream productions that attract large audiences , says Taylor Gilbert. She's the founder and co-artistic director at the Road Theater Company.

S4: It's easy to pick up the newspaper and go , Oh , I'm going to go see Moulin Rouge because I know , I know the movie. I know that this I know that. So I'm going to go see that.

S3: But when you're producing new work , people take a leap of faith.

S4: You know , they they show up not knowing most of the time anything about this play.

S3: Gilbert says her nonprofit theater is fortunate to have loyal donors and audiences , which means her mission to produce new thought provoking works is unchanged. The night I visited , the company was doing a reading of Tillie Bird Bones , a modern fairy tale by recent NYU grad Leah Plant Weiner about a young woman slowly turning into a bird.

S2: My body is okay. 30 years.

S3: The seats were two thirds full , which is a great sign of a comeback. But Gilbert says they could have done better. Older folks are still not buying tickets. Are we back ? No.

S4: People are scared. People are still afraid to be here.

S3: Well , things aren't back to their pre-pandemic levels. After I visited the theater. Ronnie Marmo got some really good news. His old landlord offered Theater 68 , a new lease , and they will reopen this fall.

S6: You know , I didn't know whether to laugh or cry or run for the hills or jump up and down.

S3: I'm making Jamerson.

S1: California has set aside $10 million to help people afford e-bikes. And the group the state has chosen to administer that incentive program is based right here in San Diego. Pedal Ahead is a nonprofit in the midst of a two year pilot program that gives people an e-bike for free. The goal is to measure the impact of e-bikes on people's transportation habits in hopes that they'll reduce car travel and greenhouse gas emissions. Here to discuss what lies ahead is Petrolheads founder and president Ed Clancy. Ed , welcome to the program.

S2: Oh , great to be here. Thank you for the opportunity.

S1: So pedal ahead.

S2: And I'm only half joking for the fact that there's a lot of structure behind the distribution for vouchers to go into various communities throughout the state. We've identified income levels based on federal poverty , income for households , families , and we're working on a strategy to get to those communities throughout the state. So by the time that that's ready , we're going to be able to make that distribution and really impact people's lives , not only the people that are using the e-bikes , but also the communities that are directly affected or indirectly affected by having clean transportation , widely used within their neighborhoods and cities , etc..

S1: So this statewide e-bike incentive program is supposed to be focused on equity.

S2: They have a lot of challenges getting to and from places and short periods of time. Or you may have older cars in those neighborhoods that are polluting a lot. And so really , it's working from the inside out to say , here's a safe , efficient , low cost , high impact means of transportation that can be introduced to these spaces. And the individuals using them are going to get mental , physical and environmental health that lends itself to many other opportunities , socio economic opportunities that can increase our broaden the ways of lives in various parts of our state.

S1:

S2: You know , e-bikes are cheap or they're expensive , you know. And so what we're and what I mean by cheap is that for a few hundred dollars , the individual can grab one at a retailer or they can be expensive into the $10,000.

S1:

S2: But we also provide helmets , lights , locks and reflective vest to the San Diego Paddle I head program. And we do a lot of training and edification that safe cycling.

S1: Tell us more about the program that you're working on in San Diego right now.

S2: What I mean by that is the individuals are able to use the bikes they data capture and we get the data on the route ride frequency time of day , and we use that information to really identify the mental , physical and environmental health for the individual. And some of those , you know , over 271,000 miles have been ridden in over two years. The carbon emissions reductions of e-bike over cars have been 18.3 metric tons , or the equivalent of about 6000 trees planted. And the testimonials are really what is heartening from this program to know that people are having less stress because they're able to get on the bike , being able to adventure around town in ways that they haven't seen their neighborhoods or parts of San Diego before , and economic savings by not having to rely on a car or public transportation.

S1: The State Air Resources Board has made very clear that California cannot meet its climate goals without a dramatic reduction in car travel. They've done the math and they say electric cars will help get us closer , but we also just have to drive less. So what role do you think ? E-bikes can or should play in that journey to reducing our dependence on cars.

S2: What we see in our space of pedal ahead , we have 65% novice or beginner cyclists , and these are individuals that have ridden the bikes , ridden bikes before , but they haven't taken the opportunity and really feel like they're relying on a car to run day to day activities , to go to school , to get together with friends. But with the introduction of e-bikes being able to manage time , hills , distance , a lot of people are leaving their cars at home. So the carbon emissions we're seeing that they're being reduced and that by communities getting on an e-bike are really effectively directly changing the climate in small increments. But now if we do that in larger groups , then we have a larger increment of climate impact. So I am a little biased , but I would say with reason because we're really being been able to have this opportunity to show that e-bikes can effectively change people's lives and change our environment.

S1: I've been speaking with Ed Clancy , founder and president of the nonprofit Pedal Ahead. Ed , thank you so much for joining us.

S2: Thank you. Much appreciated.

S4: This is KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Maureen CAVANAUGH with Andrew Bowen in for Jade Hyneman. Comic-Con has become a huge event , not just for San Diego , but for pop culture fans around the globe. During the pandemic , Mathew Clicks and created a podcast called Comic-Con Begins , which presented an oral history about the pop culture convention. But he had always planned for those interviews to be a book tomorrow. See you at San Diego. An oral history of Comic-Con fandom and the triumph of geek culture finally goes on sale. KPBS arts reporter Beth ACCOMANDO speaks with the author.

S3: Matthew , before we start talking about the content of See You at San Diego , your new book. I want you to talk about the graphic design of the book because it's so visually engaging.

S2: First of all , thanks for so saying. I'm extremely proud of how this book turned out , and I definitely need to namedrop Jonathan Borrelli , our genius designer. He really brought my vision to the page. He brought a lot of his own creative ideas and innovations. Jonathan's design is beautiful , not just in how the photos came together with the text , but also as people will see when they see the book , there's a real motif to it where we have this kind of quality , where we made it look like it was a series of kind of archives and such with paper clips and Scotch tape and post-it notes. And that was really important and a lot of work for me and a lot of work for John and he was actually putting it all together. As far as the photos are concerned yourself , you're right. It's the photos in the art , most of which people have never seen before. We have over 400 pictures and art in there. Francis Ford Coppola at The Corner in 1974 , Frank Capra , all different kinds of people that you wouldn't even expect to be at the con or in the geek culture world are in these pictures and they are so fantastic. A lot of intimate stuff with people like Trina Robbins and George DiCaprio , Leonardo DiCaprio's father , and also an underground comics guy and publisher himself. You know , all these different people all together. And that's where they all came together , was at places like Comic-Con every year for decades to celebrate not just themselves in their work , but their passions and fandoms. And I'm so proud of how it turned out , and not just for the photos themselves , but also a lot of the artwork that we have in there from different scenes and sketches. So I see myself as more of a curator , as more of a producer than even a writer and author. I just and I couldn't have done it without all these people supporting me. I think we did it right. And I'm really excited to see what everyone else is going to say about it.

S3: Now , since you are someone who is immersed in geek culture.

S2: You know , it's still something that comes up all the time. Oh , Comic-Con changed so much. Still on about comics. Well , the first part of that is definitely true. It went from 100 attendees , 250,000 attendees. So , yes , Comic-Con has changed quite a bit over the last 50 years , but it's never just been about the comics. It's been about so many other different things. It's really been about pop culture overall and , you know , influenced by things like shoulder involvement with the triple fanfare where you came from in Detroit. That was specifically about these three different things , along with some other stuff too movies , animation , comics. So Comic-Con was always about all the pop culture. I mean , there was a special place just for Star Trek as early as 1973 , and they were having the discussions even back then that they would have in later years , like we went in 2008 with Twilight coming in , where is this becoming too much about this other thing ? But no , it's about what we're doing too. Star Trek is about fandom. Twilight is about fandom. It's just another fandom that's coming in. Let's welcome it with with open arms , especially if it's bringing in a lot of other people. So that's something that was very important. But I'll go too with I love hearing about and reading about and learning about the history of Star Trek fandom through this. And one thing that I'm very , very proud of is really giving a lot more spotlight. I hope to be Joe Trimble , be Joe is such an important person in the fandom community and certainly an important person in the Star Trek community who right after the second season was originally canceled , she was able to get everyone together nationwide. I think even beyond that , to get 25,000 fans to write letters to the network to say , we want this show back. BE Joe and John were not wealthy people , so they had to fundraise just to get enough money for all the postage stamps and whatnot. They're not doing this on Facebook. They're not doing this online. They're doing it physically to bring back Star Trek. You know , spoiler alert , it worked. They were able to get Star Trek to come back for the third season. And if that hadn't happened , Star Trek likely wouldn't have been syndicated. And we very likely would not be talking about it right now.

S3: And you mentioned that Comic-Con is perhaps the largest pop culture convention in the world.

S2: It was a combination of it was a great place to go to. They were able to very early on bring down people like Jack Kirby , which was a signal to the fans , a signal to the other creators , this is the one you got to come to. And it worked out. And now here we are , especially come the late nineties , early 2000s where Hollywood really got the message and they started coming out again just because it's that easy trip from L.A. to San Diego. And they can use it as a platform to announce and get the word out about new projects that they have coming out. So it was all those things kind of coming together. And , you know , there's stories of people meeting their husbands and wives at Comic-Con , not just in the last few years , which is much more of a popular thing , but even in their early days , people met their future husbands and wives there would ring Stevens. Ever have met Dave Stevens without Comic-Con ? Maybe. Maybe not. But that's where , you know , essentially through that scene , she met Dave and became Bring Steven's and also became a model for the Bettie character , along with Bettie Page , of course , and Rocketeer. So you had those things happen or things like Stan Sakai and Kevin Eastman and Peter Layard sitting next to each other at the tables by the bathroom with the rest of the funny animal people and , you know , becoming friends over the years. And then all of a sudden , Peter and Kevin became really hot commodities , a teenager and the turtles. And they were able to turn to their buddies , Stan , and say , hey , you're sitting right there next to us. We love you. You love us. We love your work. You love our work. Do you want us to help you out ? And you want us to put you soggy Jimbo into the team in the Turtles universe and Stan sitting there going , Yes , please. And that happens because they have tables next to each other for years and years and years at Comic-Con. And , you know , obviously we haven't done the kind of research on on a New York Comic-Con or some of the other big ones. But you don't really hear a lot of those same stories happening and you don't see a lot of those same creation background things. Even someone like Frank Miller talks about coming up with a lot of the ideas for Martha Washington with Dave Gibbons while they were walking around at Comic-Con one year. That's a pretty big property that came out of two guys meeting and hanging out , walking around the water together at Comic-Con one year. So those are the kinds of things that happen and are happening. And , you know , even Felicia Day a few years later talks about very similar things also and how that , you know , doing stuff for Comic-Con and meeting people at Comic-Con really impacted a lot of who she became and what she did. And she says outright , it's not the same as when you go to after parties and such in L.A. and in Hollywood , because it's just a different kind of a vibe. It's a different kind of a scene than when you're on kind of what feels like a bit of an island , of a little bit of a resort away from everything else for five days in this beautiful place of San Diego. So the community building is such such an important part of that story. Definitely.

S3: Matthew , I want to thank you for talking about your new book. See you at San Diego.

S2: It is available everywhere. It's called Comic-Con Begins. I highly recommend it. So stay tuned. More to come.

S4: That was Beth ACCOMANDO speaking with author Matthew Click. His book , See You at San Diego An Oral History of Comic-Con Fandom and the Triumph of Geek Culture goes on sale tomorrow. He will be at American Cinematheque in Los Angeles with a celebrity panel to discuss the book on Thursday.