Shaken Or Stirred? A Look At the Science Behind Cocktails

Maureen Cavanaugh: This is KPBS Midday edition. I am Maureen Cavanaugh. Without salt around the glass, a margarita is just not a margarita. Why is that? And the classic martini should be ashamed of itself without the orange bitters. But what exactly do they add to the drink? Well, providing those answers is just what science is for. The Science of Spirits is a special event that will be held tomorrow night at the Reuben H. Fleet Science Center. The focus is on craft cocktails. I’d like to welcome my guest Andrea Derek is head of the Science on the Rocks Planning Committee at the Reuben H. Fleet Science Center. And Welcome to the show Andrea Andrea Derek: Thank you so much for having me. Maureen Cavanaugh: And Erick Castro is owner of Polite Provisions in University Heights, he will be revealing the secrets of the cocktail at tomorrow’s night event. Erick, welcome to the program! Erick Castro: Hello, It’s wonderful to be here. Maureen Cavanaugh: Andrea, is this just an excuse to have a few great drinks? Andrea Derek: (Laughs) No, I wish. It is a good excuse but that is not the main purpose of the program, obviously. A lot of people tend to think of the Fleet as the place to bring the kids, but the Fleet is so much more. We have great programs for adults, and that’s just one of them. But it’s a fun way for adults to experience the Fleet. We have great exhibits. We have fun hands on science activities where people can learn all about craft cocktails, and we just want to show the adult audience what a fun place the Fleet is and how important science is in everyday life. Maureen Cavanaugh: Well, yes, I think it is a fair question. And Andrea, what does science have to do with cocktails? Andrea Derek: You wouldn’t believe, I mean it starts from layering your cocktail because there are different densities in liquids. So, if you want to make a tequila sunrise you have to know about liquid density to make that work, to get the nice gradient that simulates the sunrise. You have to know a little bit about temperatures and ice, how that relates. You mentioned the shaken versus stirred, there is a scientific answer behind that. And we can discuss that with Erick, whether James Bond was right or wrong on that (Laughter). And we are going to answer that question on Thursday night. So there is a lot of science in drinks, more than you think. Maureen Cavanaugh: Now, Erick, are there some basic elements that go into making great cocktails? For instance, are exact measurements helpful? Erick Castro: Yes, yes, especially when you are playing with a lot of the ingredients that we use, you know, like plastics and cordials is going to be very intense in flavor. So, if you are not measuring them and being accurate in using precision when you are attempting to recreate these drinks, you are going to end up with something that is off and I wouldn’t want to drink (Laughter) Maureen Cavanaugh: Now, is there a balance of flavors that you want to achieve? You know, in some recipes, I know that chefs go for a balance of salt and tart and so forth. Do you look for that in a drink as well? Erick Castro: Yeah, you basically want to make sure that the pH levels are happy. I know bartenders tend not to discuss it in those terms (Laughter). Typically what we tend to use is the terms sweet and sour. You want to make sure that the elements are in balance. So you know, if there is a little too much sugar you are going to want to hit it a little bit more acid in the form of lemon juice or lime juice to lighten it up. Maureen Cavanaugh: And, so you go back and forth, does that mean that you have to taste it yourself? Erick Castro: Yeah, you know, that just one of the hazards of the job (Laughter). Maureen Cavanaugh: I want to ask you both, Andrea I’ll start with you first. Do you have a favorite cocktail? Andrea Derek: I’m a gin person. So, I do like a really good gin tonic or negroni is a wonderful drink. Yeah, I do have my favorites. Maureen Cavanaugh: And, Erick, are you allowed to have a favorite cocktail? (Laughter) Erick Castro: Yes, I’m a more old fashioned guy in more ways I’m good with a good rye old-fashion. Maureen Cavanaugh: Have you created cocktails of your own, Erick? Erick Castro: Yes, yes, I have and you know I think a lot of my inspiration comes from understanding the ratios within the formulas in this whole drinks so that I can use that as the foundation, as a base, whenever I’m creating new cocktails. Maureen Cavanaugh: And you said before, when you were answering the question about measurements, you said when you are dealing with a cocktail that has a lot of ingredients, do you like cocktails with a lot of ingredients? I mean a lot of things can go wrong, right? Erick Castro: Yeah, I tend to stay away from cocktails that have a lot of ingredients. Lots of times I find that people just keep adding more things instead of better understanding the ingredients that are already at play, so they make a miscalculation on the fifth ingredient and they just keep adding the sixth and seventh until it becomes drinkable. Maureen Cavanaugh: Well there is the old debate over shaking a cocktail or stirring a cocktail, and you know, they’re many people who say that a martini should never be shaken despite James Bond. What do the two different mixing methods actually do to the cocktail? Erick Castro: Here’s the beauty, What happens when you stir a drink, you get it just as cold but it picks up less dilution. It picks up water and it allows the flavors to shine better because they are not as watered down. So, when you stir it you keep all the elements. You keep the texture better. It doesn’t come out floppy. It doesn’t come out as watered down, but you get the drink just as cold and it’s much richer in flavor and actually the viscosity is much better when it hits your palate. Maureen Cavanaugh: So it should be stirred! Erick Castro: Yes, it should be stirred. I mean, however, if you’re one of those people how like to have it shaken, by all means we will have to shake it for you (Laughter). But it taste better when it’s stirred. Maureen Cavanaugh: What about blended cocktails? Erick Castro: Blended cocktails can be fun! A lot of times what we tend to use in its place is crushed ice. An ice crush machine allows you to have the same level in dilution you would get from blending, and we believe it keeps the texture better and the integrity because you have more control of the variables with the crushed ice that we use. But you know, every now and then we are busting our some of the 70s and 80s drinks, you know, we can be guilty of just pulling out the blender (Laughter). Maureen Cavanaugh: You see, I am learning things! Erick, there has been a resurgence in cocktail popularity, as you know, in recent years. How many cocktail recipes do you have at your fingertips? Erick Castro: Oh, my lord. I have no idea. I mean, I would guess the average, you know, craft bartender is working with a memory of about twelve hundred. Think some of the younger guys who are a little newer are working with about 200, 300, 400 but it gets tricky because I’ve been doing this for over a decade. So, I know a lot of these craft cocktails but some of these old drinks from the 80s and 90s that I will never be able to forget, they are just imbedded in my brain. Maureen Cavanaugh: And occasionally you will hear about a craft cocktail being made that will incorporate something like bacon (Laughter). Yes, and you like that? Erick Castro: Yeah, I mean it’s always fun. I like people doing fun interesting stuff, as long as there is purpose behind it and, you know, thoughtful process of creation behind it I’m all for it. Maureen Cavanaugh: In fact at the Fleet tomorrow night, Andrea, there is going to be, you are going to be doing other scientific investigations with alcohol. I think you’ll be going into distilling and infusion and all of that. Tell us about that Andrea Derek: Yes, we have three distilleries joining us tomorrow night. There is going to be Old Harbor, Bella’s Point, and Twisted Manzanita and they are going to form a panel where they are going to talk a little bit about the science behind distilling, and we are going to answer questions from the audience. There is a lot of science that goes into distilling and making good quality liquor, so we’re going to talk about that. Maureen Cavanaugh: And also, it, a lot of people, I think, attempt to do it at home these days, and that’s infusing. Is that right? Andrea Derek: That is true, and we are going to have some scientists explaining what infusion is and why it works different in water, oil, and alcohol. You know, water infusion is big right now; you get the lemon and the cucumber water. You get the cucumber vodka, any kind of flavor you think. But there is reason why, a scientific reason why the infusion works different in these different liquids, and we’re going to explain that in detail and explore that in detail. Maureen Cavanaugh: It seems that you’re going to have to keep a clear head in order to get all of this information. Is that going to be possible, Andrea? Andrea Derek: I think it will be (laughter). I think we are all able to enjoy some really delicious drinks and still be learning and just having some plain old fun. Learning can be so much fun! Maureen Cavanaugh: Now with all this talk about science and cocktails, Erick, is fixing a great cocktail at least part art as well as science? Erick Castro: Yes, it definitely is. I mean, you know what they say about any craft, once you master craft it becomes an art. And I think that definitely applies to cocktails as well. Maureen Cavanaugh: Ok, so we’ll be seeing a balance of art and science when we go to this tomorrow night. Andrea, tell people how they can take part of this event Andrea Derek:Perfect! They just have to go to the Fleet website, that is rhfleet.org, and they’ll see a little picture that says the Science of Spirits and they click that picture and it’ll take then right to the ticket slide, and they can purchase tickets and hopefully we’ll see them tomorrow night. Maureen Cavanaugh: All right, and I have also been told that we also have links on our page as well, and that’s at KPBS.org. I’ve been speaking with Andrea Derek with the Science on the Rocks Planning Committee at the Reuben H. Fleet Science Center. We’ve been talking about the event that takes place tomorrow night, which is called Science of Spirits, and with a focus on craft cocktails. And, I’ve also been speaking with Erick Castro, owner of Polite Provisions in University Heights. Thank you both so much. Andrea Derek: Thank you so much for having us. Eric Castro: Thank you for having us. Maureen Cavanaugh: You’ve been listening it KPBS Midday Edition.