Gov. Newsom Signs A New Batch Of Bills; Covered California Open Enrollment Begins And The Mysterious Case Of San Diego’s Broken Trash Bins

Speaker 1: 00:00 The deadline for California governor Gavin Newsome to sign bills from the last legislative session came yesterday and today there's plenty of talk about it among some of the highlights that governor signed a bill clearing the way for the pure water San Diego program to continue the program slated to delivery third of San Diego's water by 2035 via purifying waste water phase two lawsuits, which threatened to kill it. The governor also signed a bill from San Diego assembly mentor Gloria, which will ban gun sales at the Del Mar fair grounds beginning in 2021. Joining me now to talk about other bills is been Adler of Capitol public radio. Ben, welcome. Good to be with you. So can you start by telling us about other gun-related bills the governor signed? Speaker 2: 00:44 I think the most significant of gun bills that the governor signed this year, uh, is one that Jerry Brown vetoed a couple of times previously. And that's an expansion of the state's red flag laws, gun violence restraining order program. So this is where right now a family member or law enforcement agency can, uh, petition a judge for a restraining order against someone they believe could be dangerous. Uh, and then the restraining order would be served by police and guns, magazines or ammunition would be confiscated. The legislation, the new law is going to allow employers, coworkers and teachers to petition for restraining orders as well. Now it's opposed both by gun rights groups and the American civil liberties union. And Brown vetoed it in the past saying that he really does think that, you know, the existing law, law enforcement and family members is the right balance. Best situated he wrote to make these especially consequential decisions, but Newsome who has been very more in favor of, I mean, Jerry Brown signed some gun control measures, vetoed others definitely paddled a bit to the left paddle a bit to the right. Uh, but, but Newsome has definitely made a gun control one of his leading causes and he went ahead and signed this measure. Speaker 1: 01:57 Well, is there anything in the bill that address concerns, uh, about this, these red flag laws being expanded and also about those laws being applied inconsistently? Speaker 2: 02:08 I think that's, you know, part of the legislative debate is anytime you've got this line, and again by going through the legislative process, you're going to have these arguments play out year after year and at some point, you know, the politics change, the votes have always been there in the legislature despite opposition from first amendment and second amendment groups on the left and on the right. And you have a governor who's more willing to sign it. So I think that was just, you know, I think backers knew they didn't need to necessarily make major changes in order to get this through because of who's in the governor's office. Speaker 1: 02:40 All right. A bill which will ban privately run prisons and detention centers will also go into effect on January 1st of next year. What was the reasoning behind this one and is the controversy over the treatment of a little illegal immigrants part of that reasoning? Speaker 2: 02:56 Well, I think it's only part of it. I think Newsome had campaign to say he wants to end California's use of private prisons. It is, you know, an example where, you know, he has his, you know, been out there publicly on it. And I the, the thing is though, the state was already kind of moving in that direction, uh, even before he took office and then continued to move in that direction because the use of private prisons in California started popping up because there were relatively few, if any other options, you had court orders saying California needed to reduce its prison population cap because the prisons were overcrowded. And uh, you know, you still had, even though you had the, the state making moves to, you know, make counties more responsible for low level offenders then than the state and in shift responsibility from the state to counties, you still had, uh, you know, at, you know, complete capacity and, and so you had the use of private prisons being ramped up as a, as a result. Speaker 2: 03:55 Now the population has started to drop because of some of the policy changes that have been made under governor Brown. And, and so it was relatively easy, I think for Newsome to be able to keep this promise. So starting in January, the state department of corrections will no longer be able to start a renewal contract that that places state inmates and for-profit prisons with the exception however, that the state can renew or extend the contract to comply with a court ordered prison population cap. And then altogether there's the ban on incarceration of state inmates at private prisons in 2028 and then immigration or in immigrant detention centers are also going to be wined wound down under this legislation and also victims of sexual abuse will now have more time to file lawsuits. How much more time do they have now? Well, before the current law or before the law that the governor just signed, uh, it was according to the author's office, eight years, within eight years of reaching adulthood or three years of the date that a survivor who reached adulthood discovers or reasonably should have discovered that they suffered damages as a result of the assault, whichever comes later. Speaker 2: 05:03 And so now the new law is going to expand both the statute of limitations for the time given to victims of childhood sexual assault from age 26 to 40. And that period for when you discover or reasonably discover that you suffered damages from three to five years. Again, a measure that Jerry Brown vetoed in the past. And the Bill's author even said on Twitter that Brown was working even out of office trying to get this bill to, to, to not be signed. But, uh, Newsome did sign it. Also, the governor signed several animal welfare bills, a ban on the sale of animal fair, new rules governing the sale of horses for slaughter and a ban on circus animals will now become law. Can you talk about how those came about? He did take action on a series of animal bills and then there was one that he just snuck in late last night. Speaker 2: 05:51 Uh, he signed one that basically allows California to take the first steps toward, uh, eating roadkill. And I'm just going to pause and let you soak that. When in eating roadkill right now you can't and you, you need permits to be able to, you know, from the state fish and wildlife department to be able to, you know, hunt and eat what you, what you kill. Uh, so this build sets up a pilot program to explore, well, you could get a, you could get a permit to eat roadkill. Okay. Well I guess at the end of the day, that is a very personal decision. Speaker 2: 06:25 Yes, that's, that's well put. All and, and also there were hitting the snooze button on start times for schools. Correct. Ooh, I like that one. Well you're on a roll. Yes, this is going to effect and it's not going to take effect right away. It'll start in 2022 or when they're, when the collective bargaining agreement expires. But for middle schools, they will no longer be able to start before eight o'clock. High schools will no longer be able to start before eight 30. And this is another example of a bill that had failed in previous years, died two years ago in the legislature, vetoed last year by Jerry Brown. Newsome signed it. And it has to do with, well, the science suggests that a adolescent and teenage brains work better if you get a little more sleep. Obviously we all work better when we get more sleep, but also just starting a little bit later in the morning in theory, is supposed to improve the environment for learning. All right. I've been speaking with Ben Adler of capital public radio. Ben, thank you so much. You're welcome. Speaker 1: 00:00 You don't hear too much about it in the headlines anymore, but covered California is still working to expand health coverage in the state. Open enrollment starts tomorrow and runs through January 31st some big changes in California's health insurance are rolling out next year and joining us to explain is the executive director of covered California Peter Lee and Peter. Welcome. Great to be with you. I suppose the biggest change is the new state individual mandate that requires Californians to have health insurance. Congress removed the federal individual mandate. Why did the state pick it up last year? Folks in Washington said, we don't need a penalty anymore. Don't need a requirement. It had been in place for five years. It had helped nudge people to do the right thing, shop and get insurance. California said, we actually think the affordable care act is working. Let's go back to what was working but also make it better is not only is it the law in California to have health insurance now and you'll pay a penalty if you don't, but there's more subsidies available and we're the first state in the nation to make financial help. Speaker 1: 01:04 There for middle class folks, people that make more money and so in many ways more, and I think that's the bigger deal is that California said, let's not just protect the affordable care act. Let's go beyond it and make it work better. We're going to talk about those subsidies in a minute. Let me hang on to the individual mandate though. If the mandate means that if California and stone signup for insurance, they'll face a penalty as you said. What kind of penalty? Well, it depends on how much money you make, but if you're a family of four, you're going to pay at least $2,000 as a penalty if you're an individual at least $700 but if you make more money, the penalty literally could be up to $10,000 for a family of four. But you know, I say this often, the bigger penalty isn't writing a check to the franchise tax board, which is who you'd write the check to. Speaker 1: 01:51 It's showing up in the emergency room and walking out with an $80,000 bill. It's going without insurance and deciding you don't get that checkup, that diagnosis cancer early. That's what people should avoid and people want health insurance if they find out how affordable it is because these do state subsidies, it's more affordable for a million Californians. People will want the coverage they can afford. Did the rollback of the federal mandate impact the rate of uninsured Californians? We absolutely think it did. Last year in 2019 we saw a major decline in people signing up new. During last years, open enrollment declined about 20% that's a big drop and we think that, you know the penalty was a nudge. It's not the reason anyone buys health insurance, but for many people it may be the reason they shop and realize that, Oh my God, I'm eligible for financial help. Instead of paying $800 I may only have to pay $200 and there's a subsidy to cover the rest. Speaker 1: 02:49 That's what we want people to do is to go to [inaudible] dot com and find out if they're eligible for that financial help. Let's talk about that change. For middle income Californians, they may be eligible now for significant state subsidies on their health insurance. Tell us all about that. Well, so the California legislature and governors, some signed a law to provide over $500 million to provide financial help for about a million Californians. Many of them are getting help right now, uh, or eligible for federal help to lower their premiums. But the affordable care act had what we called a cliff, which is if you make more than 400% of the federal poverty level, which is about 50,000 for an individual or 75,000 for a family, you would get zero financial help. Now, healthcare in America is expensive. I've talked across the state to people who found that, boy, I made a little bit more than that. Speaker 1: 03:41 $50,000 healthcare's not affordable for me. California is the first state in the nation to say, we're going to help people out than make more than 50,000 a year up to 75,000 years in individual, you might get hundreds of dollars to lower your healthcare costs and you can find out if you're eligible in two minutes, go into coverage. [inaudible] dot com all you need to have is your zip code, how much you earn, how big your family is. We can tell you in an instant if you're eligible for financial help and what health plans you can sign up for in your community and about how much could it bring your eye health insurance bill down. It's you. You might get a subsidy of $50 150 or $750 you don't know. It all depends, and we've actually had people who have enrolled in coverage already who have had, instead of paying $900 a month, we'll be paying $300 a month because the state subsidy will be over 600 you won't know until you check and we want to make sure California to get the word out. Speaker 1: 04:37 Now's the time to start shopping. Now according to a recent study, more than 700,000 Californians who are eligible for Medicare apparently don't know it because they may not enroll in 2020 if someone goes to covered California, that portal, will it determine if if they are eligible for medical? Absolutely. I mean one of the things, we are the one stop shop to see if you're eligible for anything. If you're eligible for medical, we're gonna help you get enrolled. You can do it online if you're eligible for state or federal financial help to lower your private plan that you choose through us that's there to either way cover California's got your back. We are there with one purpose to help consumers to get affordable coverage and the legislature just expanded medical coverage for undocumented young adults. How does that work? So if you go to our website and you're younger than 26 and are not currently illegal resident, you're going to be eligible to enroll in medical. Speaker 1: 05:32 We'll help those people find out how to sign up to work with their local County to get those benefits. Are rates under covered California? Are they going up much this year? So one of the things that happened this year is because California put in place that mandate that it's the law to have coverage. The health plan said, Hey, we're going to get a better risk, make people healthier people. That meant that on average premiums are going up less than 1% next year. That's the lowest we've had it in six years in the San Diego region. Basically premiums aren't going up at all. So if you aren't getting a subsidy, you're still going to see the benefits of having it be the law to have coverage because it's going to mean you aren't paying a 9% increase. Rather your premium should stay on average. Constant. You know, there's so much confusion at the national level about health insurance. Speaker 1: 06:21 How confident are you that covered California can maintain its system of coverage despite what's going on nationally? Yeah, we're totally confident. Look, there's still chatter in Washington. There's still going to be court cases, but change to the national level will take years. People need to know that they sign up right now for covers. That will take effect in January, 2020 they'll have coverage for all of 2020 they'll get MediCalc, they've signed up for it. They'll get our coverage with federal and state subsidies for 2020 and going long beyond that, any changes that happened down the road are going to take a long time. And we live in a state that says, let's not just rest on our laurels. Let's not just protect the affordable care act bill, let's go beyond it. Which is what we're doing now by helping some undocumented folks, but hundreds of thousands of middle-class Californians getting financial help today. Speaker 1: 07:12 Okay, so finally, how do people sign up? It's actually easy. The first thing go to covered ca.com and literally in two minutes, shop and compare. You can find out if you're eligible for financial help and what health plans you can choose. If you're confused, go online, put in your zip code and we can send you to local help in your community. There's thousands of certified insurance agents. They never charge a penny to you to provide their service. They can help you enroll, or you can call our 800 number. All of those are reliable. Fastest way to find them covered. ca.com and remember, if you sign up by December 15th which a lot of time you've got coverage effective January one you don't want to go a day into next year without having health insurance. I've been speaking with the executive director of covered California, Peter ley. Peter, thank you. Thanks for having me. Speaker 2: 08:04 [inaudible]. Speaker 1: 00:00 As everyone knows, there is no such thing as a free lunch or in San Diego have free trash bin. While people who live in single family homes don't pay for trash pickup, they do pay in other ways. Residents must pay $95 to get a replacement trash bin if theirs is broken. And as KPBS investigative reporter Claire Treg is her found broken bins happen a lot. Speaker 2: 00:25 It's shocking. It's not something that we expect. So it's been kind of a frustrating situation. Speaker 3: 00:31 I don't love it. No, I mean I wish I didn't have to. So yes, I do mind frustration. Anger was all part of the emotional package. You're going [inaudible] Speaker 4: 00:41 that's the last thing that you would expect to see when you come home as the lid for your trash cans way up in the air. Why are these people mad? Because of their trash. Speaker 3: 00:53 All of them had been damaged by city of San Diego trucks and all were told they'd have to pay for replacement bins at $70 each plus $25 for delivery and they're not alone. The number of replacement bins ordered by residents has increased by 42% over the last 10 years, up to more than 17,000 bins last year. If you lined up all those bins end to end, they would stretch almost 10 miles. That's like from ocean beach to SDSU and in 2018 residents spent more than $1 million on replacement bins, but the city says not everyone has to pay. Speaker 5: 01:35 We have a policy and the policy is if we break it, we will take care of. We're responsible for that. Speaker 3: 01:41 Eden Carter is a district manager with the city's environmental collection services department. Speaker 5: 01:46 The drivers will actually let us know, you know, that we keep, they made a mistake, you know, it was broken. We did it, we dragged it, it fell over. Um, we're responsible for it. They relay that to their supervisor and then we actually in turn, will give them another container. Speaker 3: 02:02 This is not always the case. Speaker 2: 02:04 When we said that we have video of the driver actually smashing it on the ground, they said, well, you know, that's just part and parcel with it. Speaker 3: 02:11 When Rancho pennis Quitos resident, Ramon Harris arrived home to a broken bin a few months ago. He checked his security camera and saw the culprit. A city trash truck had skewered his can and shook it back and forth trying to break free. But when he took that evidence to the city, it didn't matter. Speaker 2: 02:30 We told them specifically, we do have video of your drivers doing it. And they said, yeah, the, yeah, the, the drivers, you know, they'll, they'll from time to time, um, caused some issues, but that's not our, our liability. Speaker 3: 02:43 Hey, PBS asked the city how many damaged bins in the last year were replaced for free. And the answer came back just nine. But what is causing the broken bins to begin with? In 2009, the city switched to a new type of bin that is less flexible and more easy to break eating. Carter with the city says the reason they use the new bins is simple. There Speaker 4: 03:06 cheaper is a bidding process. Another issue is the trash trucks. Carter says they have a set speed for picking up trash. 10 seconds going up 10 seconds. But KPBS observed most trash pickups happening faster than that, which means the gripping action on the cans might not be as gentle, potentially causing cracks and as any physicist will tell you, increasing the speed of taking up and putting down the can also increases the force when the lid flips back and swings into the can. But not everyone has the money or the willingness to pay for a new bin, including Rancho Pennys, ketose resident, Ramon Harris. We have just left it like this. We don't want to pay for a band because we obviously didn't do the diamond. Speaker 3: 03:56 He says if he can't get a free one, he'll just wait until his falls apart. Completely. Joining me is KPBS investigative reporter Claire Trek a sir Claire. Welcome. Thank you. What got you interested in the condition of San Diego's trash bins? Well, it was actually some personal experience. I paid for a new trash bin because mine was broken. And a few months later my lid was broken again. And then I was taking a cross country flight with my two year old son who loves trash trucks and we decided the best way to entertain him was to download this YouTube video of just different trash trucks picking up trash in all these different cities. And I was watching it and I was thinking, wow, these other trucks actually do have better ways of picking up trash where the bins don't get slammed around as much. So that's what made me decide to look into. Speaker 3: 04:46 Okay. And what is the reason that a city resident can't just pick up a garbage can from let's say home Depot if their trash bin is damaged? Well, I mean they can, for certain ones, the city has, you know, they have to meet the specifications so that the truck can actually lift up the, the bin and dump it. Um, the city city website says which ones you can buy and you can buy ones that are better quality, less likely to break, but all of them cost more than it would cost you to order through the city. Now does the city have any guidelines about how damaged is to damage for a trash bin to be usable anymore? I mean, if you talk to people it seems like no, it can really vary because what the city, the drivers will do is they'll leave this pink sticker on your bin and say this is now too damaged. Speaker 3: 05:35 We, we aren't going to pick this up anymore. And some people say, Oh, I got a sticker with just a very small crack with what the city says is that it's really anything that's going to become dangerous. Like if there's loose pieces and the truck picks up the bit and pieces come flying off, it can be dangerous. Um, but the problem is that when people get this sticker, then their trash is no longer being picked up. If they need to order a new bin, it can take three to four weeks to be delivered. In the meantime, all their trashes building up so people get very upset about it. Speaker 1: 06:05 So does the city monitor how the sanitation trucks and drivers are actually treating the trash bans or are they just relying on what the drivers tell them? Speaker 3: 06:14 I don't believe that they have any kind of, you know, dash cam or body worn camera, but, but maybe they should. Um, I think one thing that we're seeing, which I brought up in this story is more people with security cameras are actually capturing what happened. Um, but then as we heard in my story, it doesn't always matter. Even if you have on video that the truck caused the damage, you may not be able to get a free bin. Speaker 1: 06:37 Is the city actually making money on the replacement fees for all these damaged trash Speaker 3: 06:42 friends? Well, they say no, of course. Um, but a grand jury report that came out a few years ago found that it actually only costs the city about $50 per new bin, but the city says they used the extra $20 plus the delivery fee to pay for staff costs in providing the new Dubin. So they say, you know, they're breaking even. Basically, Speaker 1: 07:03 you got an overwhelming response from KPBS listeners. When you asked about their experiences with broken trash bans, were there more stories than you could include in this feature? Oh yes. What did they say? Speaker 3: 07:16 I mean, it was a very popular post that we put out and I also wanted to give a shout out. If you want to submit your story now, you still can you go to kpbs.org/curious, um, and you can, you can fill out responses there. Um, one woman said she came home and she found her lid was hanging from a utility pole high up in the air. And what she thinks happens is that the, when the truck was flipping the bin back, the lid got stuck on the utility pole and just ripped off. But there was no note, you know, no explanation. She just had to look up and see, see her lid there. And then another story was that I think is really funny is because the city provides the blue recycle bins for free. One person ordered a new blue bin and then painted it. Speaker 1: 08:05 You have to be innovative or pretty innovative. What about city council members? Is the trash bin issue something that they hear a lot about from their constituents? Speaker 3: 08:13 Yeah, it is actually in, in this grand jury report that came out in 2017 they found that some council offices were using their discretionary funds to buy bins for people who basically contacted the office and said, I need a new bid. And that's not how that money is supposed to be spent. So after the report came out, they all had to stop doing that. Speaker 1: 08:32 Okay. So this is a two part series. Claire, where are you going with this Trashman story tomorrow? Speaker 3: 08:39 Well, tomorrow we're looking at how every other city in the County does trash. Um, they all use private contractors like EDCO or waste management. And they, for the most part, have better bins and some better trucks, um, that minimize the damage to the bins. But residents there all pay for trash pickup from like $14 a month to up to $31 a month in different cities. Um, and then we'll also look at the history of San Diego and why we are only one of three cities in California was free trash pickup for single family homes. And we'll also hear from someone who, uh, recorded, uh, trash truck damaging his bin and was able through, I think he put the video on social media and got a lot of attention. And so he ended up finally getting the city to pay for a new bin, which as we heard in my story, is very rare. There's only been nine instances of that in, in the past year. Okay. I've been speaking with KPBS investigative reporter Claire Traeger, sir Claire. Thank you. Thank you. Speaker 6: 09:41 [inaudible]. Speaker 1: 00:00 To many people. It must sound like a dream come true. Getting away from routine cell phones everyday life and sailing into adventures on the sea. That's exactly how San Diego boatbuilder. Lou Mauer has spent much of the last 15 years. The family who asked him to build a beautiful 80 foot catamaran also asked him to become its captain as they took their kids on a series of adventures in the South sea islands and beyond. Now, Mauer has written a book about those journeys and the vessel that started at all called Milana Lou Mauer. Welcome. Well thank you. Tell us about the Mo Ana, how the catamaran, how it looked and what it was capable of. Speaker 2: 00:45 Well, it, it, it's a very special boat. It had to be, it had to be capable of traveling across oceans, which required tremendous range. It had to be self sufficient in remote places where there would be no support services. There'll be certainly no coast guard or any help if anything went wrong. And it also had to be, um, it had to be five-star inside. It had to be. It had to represent the best, uh, of accommodations for the family. And it had to have equipment that was totally fail safe with ultimate backup systems and, and everything that required to, to spend long periods of time in very remote places. Speaker 1: 01:27 Now, the boat was commissioned by the head of a Belgian family who also asked you to captain it. What did this family want to do? Speaker 2: 01:36 Well, it started with a dream. Um, this man had an incredible dream to take his children to these far away places before they were discovered and changed forever. And that required this very, very special boat. But beyond that, um, to do it, this man had to, had to do something very, very different, which separates the people that keep their boats in marinas year-round, week after week, and never go anywhere. Because to do what we did, you have to have a, an extraordinary boat. You have to have a professional crew. You have to have the resources and the time, the imagination and the courage and, and all of those things are required to do what what we did. Um, and which explains why we rarely saw any other boats where we went. Speaker 1: 02:31 No, as I say, for the next 15 years, you, your crew and the family with their four children would visit some of the most remote places on earth. As you say, you just didn't see any other boats or any other people visiting these places. What were some of those places? Speaker 2: 02:48 Well, everyone has heard of, you know, places like Australia or New Zealand or even places like, uh, the Solomon Islands, but within those places, or I should say around those places are the remote atolls in islands that we visited with names like rally Shoals and Kimberly's and, and, uh, IGA, Matt hall, uh, Osprey reef. These are places that, that no one, no one knows about, but, uh, they are within the areas of, of these, these major islands. And because of that, that's why we, we didn't see anybody there. What were some of the highlights for you? Probably the most long lasting and enduring, uh, memories where our, our, um, interactions with the natives, the natives were so kind and, and, uh, accommodating and friendly and the effect that it had on the children as they grew up was, was quite remarkable. Well, yeah, I mean, they did grow up on this boat for 15 years, but I mean, they weren't on it all the time. Speaker 2: 03:55 They went to school, right? Correct. The, the, uh, the crew and I would move the boat from one remote place to another, and then the family, every time there was a school vacation or summer vacation, they would fly in and meet us. But that requires some, some, some daunting travel, uh, arrangements, uh, involving connecting flights over and over and over. Uh, sometimes a charter aircraft landing on dirt strips. Uh, we would sometimes pick them up in, uh, in the chief's pickup truck and take them down to some little, a beach in the middle of nowhere. So, um, it was, it was quite, uh, quite a daunting endeavor. What was it like seeing these kids grow up during the 15 years of these journeys? That was really, that was really, um, a highlight for me. They to begin with. They're really good kids coming from a really good family. Speaker 2: 04:52 Um, they, they had a really good value system in place, uh, when they very first came as as young children and watching them grow up and how they were affected by our travels and the, the, the kindness of the, of the native peoples. Uh, these were, these were kids that would come to the boat and these were kids that will never wear shoes. They, um, they, they will never make a phone call or eat ice cream, but they offered unconditional friendship with the children and we would often see our children paddling off miles away to, uh, to a native village where they would experience the real, real life of, of natives in those far away places. Were there any scary moments? Well, being caught in a cyclone in new Caledonia, uh, being confronted with a desk zone of unbelievable waves in the South Taranaki bite off of New Zealand and in general, just a really Tufts slogs in Tradewinds conditions. Yeah, there was a lot of, uh, a lot of frightening moments, um, along the way, as you can imagine in all those thousands of miles. Speaker 1: 06:09 Now in the book Milana, you take people on this journey through words and beautiful pictures, uh, all, all along your 15 years or travel. Why did you make the decision to write this book? Speaker 2: 06:24 Well, after a couple of years I realized that we were doing something that was, was really out of the ordinary or was really quite special. And so the idea started to creep into my mind, but in the Solomon Islands, just by chance, wa uh, we met a couple there in the owner of that boat was a famous author of, uh, of these Vietnamese Vietnam war, uh, books. And when I told him where we were traveling and what we were doing, he encouraged me to, to, to write the book. When it all came to an end. What happened to the Momana? Oh, that's pretty interesting. Uh, it became impossible to get the kids all on the boat at the same time anymore. They grew up and they had, they had boyfriends and girlfriends and jobs and careers and everything. And so it was decided to sell the boat and we had our last trip and, uh, it was quite emotional at the end of that trip, uh, because the kids realized that they probably would not see the crew and I or the boat ever again. And, and so that's how we thought it ended. But in truth, the boat did not sell because it was so specifically built for what we did. There was really not a market for it. And so, uh, to make a long story short, the boat Tao lives in, in, uh, Italy where the family, uh, flies to the boat, I should say. The second generation flies to the boat and is, continues to enjoy it. To this day Speaker 1: 07:53 I've been speaking with Lou Mauer. He is the author of the new book Mulana and Lou, thank you. Thank you for coming in and speaking with us about this. A pleasure. I'm quite proud of the book and I'm happy to share it with, with everyone. You can hear captain Mauer talk about the adventures aboard marijuana in person this Wednesday evening at a meeting of the LA Jolla photo travelers club. It starts at seven 30 at the Wesley palms retirement community. The event is free.