Day 2 Of Democrats Arguments In Trump Impeachment Trial, Homeless Count, Passion Economy, San Diego Coffee Crawl

Speaker 1: 00:00 The Senate impeachment trial convenes at 10:00 AM Pacific time today. As house managers continue to lay out their case against the president. On Wednesday, Congressman Adam Schiff took the lead opening and closing the day's presentation. He challenged senators to vote to subpoena specific documents and witnesses to get to the truth of what the president did in his dealings with Ukraine. Meanwhile, president Trump and Davos applauded his legal team and referenced the documents the house Democrats don't have. Speaker 2: 00:31 We're doing very well. I got to watch enough. I thought our team did a very good job, but honestly, we have all the material they don't have the material. Speaker 1: 00:40 Joining me is political analyst, professor Carl Luna, who teaches political science at Mesa college and Carl, welcome back. Nice to be here. Congressman Adam Schiff in particular is getting high praise for his presentation to the Senate yesterday. What is he doing that's been so effective? Speaker 3: 00:56 Well, again, that high praise depends on what side of the political spectrum you seem to be on Marine, uh, from those who've been listening to the words, watching the presentation. He's a federal former prosecutor. He knows has a courtroom presence. He laid out with the managers a systematic argument about what the president did. Now detractors, the president called him a sleazebag that's been echoed on social media. You're seeing, uh, on conservative media. This is being attacked as just a witch hunt. They continue with the talking points, so it's not universal praise. And depending on where you live, you're getting very different reports in the media. If you're in a major city, this is front page news. If you're in the Heartland, this is a bottom of page one below the fold news. It's not even being played up. Speaker 1: 01:38 Now, isn't there a contradiction in what the house managers are arguing? They want more evidence of witnesses, yet they say they already have enough to support the removal of the president. How do you understand that? Speaker 3: 01:49 What they're trying to do is to say, look, we wanted to get more in the impeachment process in the house. The pleasant president blocked us. We were confident enough to move this forward by a vote of the house of representatives to the president has done something wrong. Worthy, the removal. Now it's on you the Senate to bring in additional information so you can make a full opinion. And in every other impeachment case that's ever been done, there've been witnesses, there's been evidence that's been brought in. Documents have been added that weren't in the original house records. So on that level they are arguing again before historical fact, Speaker 1: 02:21 there was talk that there might be an exchange of witnesses for the house managers. They could call some witnesses of the Republicans could call Joe Biden and Hunter Biden. That's been refused now by Democrats and by Biden himself. But what would be the political risk in doing that? Speaker 3: 02:38 Well, I mean the political risks to both sides. I mean the Republican request to bring in Joe Biden and his son is to show that Hey, the president had a reason to engage in what he did. But that in no way addresses the way the president did it. That's the basic summation of this. The president used this for political purposes. It's like you were saying, I'd like to have John Bolton testify and I'd say I'd like to have tiger would testify to help me with my golf game. It's a non sequitur, but if the Democrats don't make a deal, don't get witnesses in. Republicans can say, look, we tried and now we have covered for not bringing witnesses in, but have Republicans look obstructionist. At some point they could pay a political price in 2020 or in 2022 for a number of these senators, this impeachment process is not just going to go away. Speaker 3: 03:22 So meanwhile we heard in the clip, the president seems to be boasting that the impeachment supporters don't have the material they need to prove their case because he has it. Well, depending on how you read that sentence, it almost goes right to the obstruction of justice of Congress. Charge the president sitting on stuff and kind of going, nanny, nanny, booboo. That's not necessarily presidential and it could help the house argument saying to the Senate, look, you are the United States Senate. At some point you have to assert your prerogatives. Otherwise have not. This president, other presidents will run all over you and that becomes a downward slide for the Republic. Republicans in the Senate so far seem unswayed by that. Based on what they're saying to the cameras, as they walk out of the doors, they seem to be talking and talking points. Also president Trump has been tweeting like crazy about the Senate trial. Speaker 3: 04:10 Is that a wise thing for him to be doing? Wiser? Not it is. The president is the way he likes to be. He likes to be the center of things. And in this trial he's actually off to the side. I mean the Democrats had hours that they'd been able to speak on the, on the media and the president's trying to grab back some of the attention. The problem is if he says things off the cuff, it could end up undermining his defense case. He almost did that yesterday talking about how he'd like witnesses. Then they had to lock it back. So you will have to be careful the tweet. But so far his tweeting has not burned him as much as his critics would think they would. So what can we expect as the presentation from the house managers continues today? Today, it seems a, Adam laid this out at the end of yesterday. Speaker 3: 04:53 They're going to move into the constitutional justification's yesterday. They said, this is what the president did today. They're going to say why that's worthy of removal according to history and precedent, the founding fathers and all the rest. You can kind of see that maybe resonating a wall street journal, New York times both had op-eds and editorials from a conservative perspective that are saying, okay, what the president did was politics. So they're, they're actually looking at what he did and conceding, but they said, everybody does. It's the old, well, why should I be blamed when Timmy is doing the same thing business? It's a sign that they may be shifting and urging the presidents defense counsel to actually address what was said yesterday eventually and say, yeah, he did it, but it not rising to an impeachable level, whether or not that will play with the presidents and other issue. I've been speaking with Cora Luna, who teaches political science at Mesa college. Carl, thank you. Thank you. KPBS. We'll resume live coverage of the Senate impeachment trial when it begins this morning at 10:00 AM. Speaker 1: 00:00 At 4:00 AM this morning, volunteers fanned out across the County to talk to and count those who do not have a home to call their own. Last year's point in time count identified 8,102 people who were living on the streets and in canyons intents in cars and RVs or in shelters, but the actual number of homeless people in the County is believed to be much higher. I spoke to San Diego city Councilman Chris ward, who is the chairman of the regional task force on the homeless. The group tasked with carrying out the count. We spoke ahead of today's count. Here's that interview first, remind us why this count is done every year. Speaker 2: 00:37 So the annual point in time count is a critical measure of us to understand the demographics of those who are homeless in our community, both sheltered and unsheltered. We really try to reach as many people as possible to ask the critical questions. This allows us to understand the programs that we want to be able to, uh, amend for the future years planning and the informs the dollars that we are supposed to be getting from HUD, from Washington, D C Speaker 1: 01:01 and how much federal funding, uh, is, is accounted for with this count. Speaker 2: 01:05 Well, last year we were able to secure over $20 million and that number has been pretty constant for the last couple of years. Um, we want to make sure that we are showing a lot of progress at the program level and for a lot of the clients that we serve, that we are trying to, uh, help people and align people with their specific needs, um, with the service pipelines that work for them. Speaker 1: 01:25 And although last year his count identified 8,000, 100, two homeless individuals, the actual number of homeless is believed to be much higher. Why is there that discrepancy? Speaker 2: 01:35 Well, first of all, it's a point in time count. It's one day on one night in January. You don't necessarily catch everybody. So we have other measures through our coordinated entry system and our homeless management information system that may touch somebody who is in and out of homelessness. They could be housed, uh, or in a temporary situation this month, but maybe in March fall into homelessness. And we know that the number is probably North of about 20,000 individuals that are engaging homeless services throughout the course of the year in the County. Speaker 1: 02:06 In last year you all incorporated drones to do the count and some of the hard to reach areas like canyons. This year's count, you all are relying even more on technology. Can you talk to me about that? Speaker 2: 02:16 Sure. So the drones were in pilot form and we actually are expanding those to a number of other areas. They don't directly count individuals, but they tell us at 4:00 AM where we might be seeing a density of homeless individuals in the river beds or in canyons or other hard to reach areas. Then we send in highly trained, uh, social outreach workers to be able to engage them and conduct the count head by head. Um, we also are using for the first time mobile app technology. So this will hopefully make the survey taking a little bit more streamlined rather than having to use all the paper forms. And more importantly, this will allow us to synthesize that information and have a close to UpToDate information. Usually it took weeks to actually input all that. And now we're going to have something more close to real time. Speaker 1: 03:01 And uh, are there any other differences between this year's count and previous years? Speaker 2: 03:07 Well, we're very lucky we have more volunteers that have signed up and so that's going to allow us to deploy more people across all the census tracks in the region. Um, we're also making sure intentionally that we are looking for those who are, uh, residing in cars or RVs, uh, and using, um, further efforts to be able to reach those individuals to understand the true nature of their homelessness if they consider themselves homeless. And, uh, you know, dropping flyers on vehicles in the past, uh, has been only so effective. We really want to engage a lot of those individuals and see if we should be adding them to the account to get a more accurate number. Speaker 1: 03:40 In addition to counting those who are homeless, the volunteers also ask some of those. They encounter a series of questions. What kind of questions do they ask? Speaker 2: 03:48 So we ask basic demographics, certainly gender and whether their veteran status is what their racial background is. Um, what, how often they had been in and out of homelessness in the last couple of years. Uh, what their needs are for core services. And so we can understand are they looking for shelter or are they looking for food? Are they looking for a rental subsidy? Um, we asked the question whether or not they have a mental health issue issue that prevents them from, uh, being in stable housing. Whether or not they have a drug use issue that prevents them from being in stable housing. So it's a pretty wide battery of about 25 to 30 questions. Speaker 1: 04:24 And so only some people are asked those questions though. Right? Speaker 2: 04:27 Well, it's a healthy, a healthy amount. We're aiming to get between 25 and 50% of those that we count to also engage the survey. Um, when we go into the shelters themselves, we're able to, people are there and, and we're able to actually engage a lot more. So we are able to uh, understand that population for those who are sheltered. And then separately we have a youth count. You've have special challenges in our ability to count because more are hidden, more are undercounted. They could be just couch surfing at a friend's home. Um, and so we have a week long count that is designed to engage, um, those who are experiencing homelessness who are 24 and under at places they tend to frequent. So we can make sure that they're inaccurate part as well. Speaker 1: 05:08 And you know, Reverend Shane Harris requested that as part of those questions, volunteers also ask whether or not the person has ever been in the foster system. Um, but that's not included in this year's questions. Why is that? Speaker 2: 05:20 We're very excited about his requests and to partner with him and the people's Alliance for justice on this question. We think it is important and no one else has testing the question about the links, the direct links between the foster care system and those who are experiencing homelessness, BD youth or uh, adults who have transitioned out. We are going to be continuing to uh, ask that question at future opportunities. It was a little too late to really build it into the count itself this year at the time we engaged him. But there's a lot of other ways that we can integrate that questioning into uh, the, uh, the almost daily or monthly engagements that we do with those who are homeless. Speaker 1: 05:56 And ultimately what Speaker 2: 05:58 are you trying to determine from the questions and the information collected and how is that information used? The main count is just like I said, really important for us to establish a funding trends for HUD. Um, it's able for us at the program level to understand whether or not we want to shift some of our resource allocations to other programs where the need might be greater. If we see a spike, for example, in veteran's homelessness there, we may want to make sure that we're doubling down on our efforts to use veterans related resources or realign general population resources to meet a specific need. Speaker 1: 06:31 I've been speaking with San Diego city Councilman Chris ward. Chris, thank you so very much. Thank you. Speaker 1: 00:00 Of the five San Diego city council districts on the ballot this year. District three is the most urban. It includes downtown banker's Hill, Hillcrest and North park KPBS Metro reporter Andrew Bowen says all the main candidates are Democrats, but they don't all agree on how to address the district's most pressing issue. Homelessness. Speaker 2: 00:23 I know how we talk big about our problems, but end up acting really small when it comes to solutions. Speaker 3: 00:29 Adrian quiet Koski is a local lobbyist who's worked on issues ranging from the seals and LA Jolla Cove to the city charter reform that created the strong mayor form of government. We needed a VA facility in old town that he worked to get approved. It was controversial at the time. Speaker 2: 00:45 We had to work with the neighbors, work with the community, work with the school across the street and come to some sort of consensus and how we can move this project forward and we were able to do that Speaker 3: 00:56 on homelessness. Quiet Koski says he supports the city using the police to crack down on people sleeping on sidewalks. He says he would ask the city attorney's office for options on how to toughen such laws. Speaker 2: 01:07 When you approach a little bit of tough love, there are going to be people that criticize you, but I will tell you that voters want to see some sort of positive action. They are tired of the talk and the constant issue just getting worse and worse. Speaker 4: 01:20 You know, we have a housing and homelessness crisis that we need to get serious about. Speaker 3: 01:27 Tony Duran is a community representative for Senator Toni Atkins. We meet her at the old mission Hills library site, which has been vacant since the city replaced it last year. Duran is advocating a proposal by the mayor's office to make the site available for permanent supportive housing. Even though the site is pretty small, Speaker 4: 01:45 granted, it would only help 28 people, but helping 28 people get off the street, get housing, get support services that they need so they can thrive. That's, that's important. This is what we need to be doing. Speaker 3: 01:59 The rant acknowledges many mission Hills residents are wary of the plan. She says she would make sure their concerns are heard. Speaker 4: 02:06 I'm having conversations with people, I'm asking their opinions. I'm asking what do you like? What don't you like? What are you afraid of? What will help you get more comfortable with, will help you get there so we can do this important work Speaker 5: 02:20 I'm running because I think it's time to bring the communities into the conversation Speaker 3: 02:24 better. Community outreach is also important to Steven Whitburn, a director of community development for the American cancer society. He says, neighborhoods want to do their part to solve homelessness but deserve a say in how to address it. Speaker 5: 02:37 And that's what frustrates people in our neighborhoods is that people make decisions before consulting with them. And I'm not going to do that. I'm going to consult first and then we'll come up with a solution. Speaker 3: 02:46 Whitburn who ran for this same seat in 2008 and for a County supervisor seat in 2010 says district three neighborhoods can play a big role in solving San Diego's housing shortage. Speaker 5: 02:58 Yeah, I think we to increase density Speaker 3: 03:00 throughout the urban core. Um, I do feel it's also really important to engage our neighborhoods and listen to what our communities have to say about the best way of doing that. I've been here in San Diego at city hall for the past six years working in independent budget analysts office. We meet Chris Olson at a hotel in the Gaslamp quarter that used to be SRO housing, low quality, but cheap rooms that are often people's last stop before homelessness. Olsen says the city is missing opportunities to preserve this form of affordable housing. You know, many other cities in times of a lot of development pressure, we'll turn to the moratorium or in room interim control ordinance to kind of take a breather and put a pause on certain conversions while we come up with a strategy that will work best for all stakeholders. Olsen agrees. District three has room for growth and that adding more neighbors will enhance the community's character and support local businesses. I'm an analyst by training. Uh, I don't have any motivation other than finding the best solution to our problems, even if it's not my solution. District three voters will decide Speaker 6: 04:04 March 3rd, which two candidates get to compete in November's general election. Speaker 1: 04:09 Joining me is KPBS Metro reporter Andrew Bowen. Andrew, welcome. Thank you. Now, Councilman Chris ward, who's running for the state assembly is currently representing San Diego's third district. Has he endorsed any of these candidates? Speaker 6: 04:23 He has not at this point. Um, and that's something that I think we've noticed, uh, as a trend in this primary season is that the current city council members seem less interested in Dorset in endorsing candidates in the March primary. Maybe because the election is a little bit lower stakes than than uh, in 2016 at least now the candidates can no longer win in the primary election. They have to go to a November runoff. But in terms of who is winning the endorsement game, and it is a competition among all the candidates, certainly in this race, I think the clear a front runner in terms of endorsements is Steven Whitburn. He has a, the most coveted endorsement from the San Diego County democratic party as well as several democratic clubs and some unions. He's been in the game for a bit longer. He, as I mentioned in this story, he ran for a city council in 2008 and County supervisor in 2010. So he's had some time to build up those relationships in the democratic party leadership that you really need to win those endorsements. What Speaker 1: 05:19 fundraising, how are the candidates doing there? Speaker 6: 05:22 Uh, we only have complete numbers as of June 30th of last year. The next fundraising reports should be coming out soon. Um, but based on the information that we have right now, Stephen Whitburn is, uh, has raised the most money. Chris Olson has raised the second most, he's pretty closely tied with Adrian quiet Koski and then Tony Duran is coming in at fourth. But that being said, all of the candidates have done fairly well in terms of fundraising and in a city council race like this, when you don't necessarily need the most money to win, you just need enough money to run your campaign and get your message out to the voters. Speaker 1: 05:55 What did you find to be the biggest difference Speaker 6: 05:58 in how these candidates would address the issue of homelessness in district three? Well, everyone says that the city needs more affordable housing, more permanent supportive housing. And this is one of the challenges we face as journalists is trying to read between the lines, between people's sort of broad statements about what, how they would tackle issues and get down to specifics and help voters understand what the differences are. So as you heard in my story, Adrian, quiet Koski was the one out of the four that I interviewed who referenced a tough love and the desire to pass new laws that would toughen or, or toughen existing, the ones that would target issues surrounding homelessness. Chris Olson was the only one to mention SRO housing and the loss of those units as, as a cause of homelessness and the potential need for a moratorium on to stop those conversions. Speaker 6: 06:44 And I will say a Tony Duran was really the most vocal on the particular issue of the mission Hills library being used for permanent supportive housing. I think that she says, you know, she understands the concerns. Uh, and things that, uh, in the neighborhood, but things that the council member of that district needs to lead and, and listen to those concerns, but also educate their constituents on the nexus between this type of housing that we really need and the problems that we see of people living on the streets. Now, one of the major issues in this urban district is public transportation, especially when it comes to things like safer bike lanes. Are any of the candidates addressing that issue? Yes. Uh, and again, everyone, I think everyone says they support public transit in the abstract and safer streets in the abstract. But there is one particular project in this district that distinguishes the candidates and that's the proposal for protected bike lanes on 30th street and North park. Speaker 6: 07:38 So the mayor is proposing eliminating parking on one side of the street. The latest design would keep some parking on 30th street but eliminated on the other side and then add protected bike lanes on, um, on both sides of the street. It's a very controversial, a lot of residents say that the parking loss would have a negative impact on the neighborhood. It might harm business activity in the area. The supporters on the other hand say this is what it takes to meet our climate action plan goals to reduce car dependence and give more people a safe and enjoyable way to get around the city on a bike. Chris Olson is the only candidate who unambiguously supports that project. He says the city could have done a much better job reaching out to the neighborhood, getting feedback from people. And he also said that he wants a comprehensive parking strategy for North park, you know, utilizing the parking garage there. Speaker 6: 08:27 But, um, he was a standout on that particular issue of the project on 30th street. So Andrew, where else can voters go to learn more about these candidates? Well, in the next week or two, KPBS will be launching its voter guide and that will have links to our reporting on this race. And uh, as well as a candidate questionnaire and, and some other races in the, in the city. I will also be moderating a town hall or a candidate forum with the district three candidates on February 13th. And that's hosted by the mission Hills town council. I would also recommend our listeners look at the union Tribune interviews that the editorial board did. They spoke with all of these candidates at length and publish those interviews, uh, info online. It's a lot to go through and I think voters can feel pretty overwhelmed by all the decisions they have to make. But you know, these are important choices and I think they're worth reading through. And you'll be bringing us a report tomorrow on the San Diego city council district one race. I've been speaking with KPBS Metro reporter Andrew Bowen. Andrew, thank you. My pleasure. Speaker 1: 00:00 You may have noticed that midday edition is starting earlier in order for KPBS to broadcast the impeachment trial in Washington without interruptions and for the mid day team and earlier start time means an earlier work day, which means a great need for more coffee. It turns out we are in luck because the seventh annual caffeine crawl gets underway in San Diego tomorrow. It couldn't come at a better time. Joining me in studio is Thomas Ryan, owner of Ryan brothers coffee in Barrio Logan and Tom, welcome to the program. Thank you Maureen. And on Skype we're joined by Jason Burton, owner of the lab, which organizes caffeine, crawls across the country. And Jason, welcome to the program. Thanks so much. Now Jason, can you give us an overview of what the caffeine crawl is? Absolutely. So a lot of people are familiar with bear crawls or wine walks and coffee really didn't have anything like this. Speaker 1: 00:59 And even just beer festivals or cocktail competitions, you would see a lot of consumers at those events. Coffee events attract, um, mostly industry folks, which is great and we love that. But a lot of the shops, I mean we all depend on our customers and our consumers. So caffeine crawl attracts both consumers and industry professionals, but it also bridges the gap on a tour throughout the city with multiple different routes. Um, experiencing what that coffee shop or coffee shop slash roasting company does behind the scenes. And I'm giving them a taste of not just the educational component of it and all the topics fairy, but also just educating and pleasing their pallets. And on any of these particular routes that you can choose from, about how many coffee shops do you visit? Uh, on a given route, there's generally five stops per route and there are even a couple of chocolate shops included in the San Diego crawl, isn't that right? Absolutely, yes. We also incorporate a really a revolves around coffee culture, but tea shops and chocolate shops, uh, again with the focus of craft or specialty and local are all invited to be a part of the caffeine crawl. Now, Tom, I understand Ryan brothers has been part of these crawls since 2016. What do people learn about your coffee business when they visit? Speaker 2: 02:26 You know, for us it's an opportunity, one to reach the enthusiast people that just really enjoy coffee and the culture of a coffee house. So in our particular case we have a retail wholesale facility, so they get to come into a real cool retail cafe and in the back of the houses where our production is. So they kind of get to see both ends of the business. They get a good tasting and they get an opportunity to be introduced to a lot of innovations that we have developed that are quite different than most of our competition. Speaker 1: 02:54 Right. One I understand that one of the things that makes Ryan brothers coffee unique is that it uses that was inspired by breweries and only they use that equipment to make coffee. Talk to me about that. Speaker 2: 03:05 Yeah. For us, you know, obviously there's been a very large trend for cold brew products. Cold brew coffees have become very, very popular with the public. So we made the move a couple of years ago to be brewing coffee kegging coffee, serving it on draft systems. Just like you would beer. Um, and so we've really moved into that direction and it really has allowed us to take the product back and craft a finished product. Um, this is something different for the coffee industry. Typically we sell commodities, we sell coffee, tea, chocolates, powders, mixes and try to teach people to make drinks. Uh, this is an opportunity to take those ingredients back and put them in the hands of the master roaster in the master brewer, uh, where we can really craft a finished product that allows, you know, the, the owner of a restaurant or establishment to simply serve, uh, from a tap handle. Speaker 2: 03:53 Could you give us an example of some of those ingredients? Yes. Yeah. So, so essentially if, if you can make a a 12 ounce drink from scratch, you can make a 500 gallon version of the same thing. So a couple of great examples. Uh, we do a cold brew, Mexican mocha nondairy. So we make our own Mexican chocolate. And so we make our traditional black cold brew coffee and we go through that full process. And at the end of our brew cycle, we use our chocolate to simply melt into water. And then we introduce the sauce into the brood, black cold brew coffee, and we mix the whole thing and put that on a draft system. So we're able to take our chocolate, fuse it into our, our coffee and dispense it as a Mexican mocha without the use of milk. Uh, another super innovative product is green bean. Speaker 2: 04:38 So what we decided to do was take unroasted coffee. This is unusual. We don't cook it or put it through our coffee roaster. Instead we extract the raw juice that's in that bean. We soak it in water and pull the rod juice, and then we brew it with a mint, a leaf, and then we put that on a draft system. So to the average consumer, it would appear as green tea with mint, but it's actually raw unroasted coffee. What are the benefits of cold brew coffee? Uh, what really defines cold brew is solubility. So basically since you're not brewing at those hot temperatures, you're not dissolving coffee solubles you're developing flavor over time and you're also extracting more caffeine because of the longer brood time. But because you're not using those really hot waters, we're not dropping the solubles in the Cubs. So as a result for the consumer, it's a more pleasant drink. It's less acidity, it's easier on your system. And because of the longer brewed times that actually has more caffeine than traditional coffee. So it's really an upgrade or an improvement on, on the product. Speaker 1: 05:34 Okay. So Jason, we heard about Tom and the cold brew. What is also unique about San Diego's coffee scene. I ended up traveling to anywhere from 15 to 20 different cities in the country in a given year. And all that pretty much revolves around coffee and sometimes baseball, but that's a whole other story. But uh, San Diego from the get go was just very unique. It was kind of the radar in the sense that I feel like not a slam to LA or San Francisco, the Bay area, but they get so much attention and I really always felt from the beginning when we started doing this that San Diego seeing was just as good, if not better and definitely better in my opinion, um, by population. So San Diego also, um, I felt like was extremely invaded, innovative and still is to this day obviously, but on incorporating a lot of different other ingredients and that is also represents the population. Speaker 1: 06:33 And that's one thing that Tom mentioned too. I mean they're cold brews at Ryan brothers. There's a vast array of different flavor profiles and um, a lot of those ingredients that are brought in to coffee. You, you're starting to see in other parts of the country. But I've had some of the most unique coffee based drinks I've ever had in San Diego. And Jason, what kind of feedback do you get from businesses and the people who go on these coffee crawls? Well, first of all, I just a lot of comfort and again, you know, it's based around caffeine. It's not really a who can drink the most or a quantity thing. It's a quality pace thing. But you know, when you're at four or five shops and you have a a drink here and there, uh, of course makes you a little bit happier. And what we love to see is just engagement, not just overall with community, but people that come to these routes together that don't know one another. Speaker 1: 07:31 And by the third or fourth stop they're just talking away and they're becoming like Facebook friends and Instagram friends and you know, obviously face to face, real life friends. And it's just, it's fun to hear those stories and people opening up because really if you think about it, coffee shops are that third place anyway. It is a place to go and have that comfort and engage or yes, I know people go and put on their headphones and work on their laptops, but there's always some kind of human interaction there. And I think that's a big thing with the caffeine crawls. And then on the flip side, obviously for the businesses I'm fault, um, our whole job and what we do, we kind of call ourselves the cheerleader of the industry because we don't own a shop. We don't own a roasting company. I've been in the industry since 2004 but I feel like it's our job to help bring awareness to all these wonderful, amazing shops and people talking to each other sometimes too fast, I would imagine. Oh yeah, for sure. Now the seventh annual caffeine crawl, San Diego starts tomorrow through Sunday. You have to buy a ticket to attend any of the 11 walks. You can find out more at caffeine, crawl.com and I've been speaking with Tom Ryan, owner of Ryan brothers coffee and Barrio Logan and Jason Burton, owner of the lab. Thank you both. Absolutely. Thank you for bringing me in. Yeah. Thank you so much.