S1: Welcome in San Diego , it's Jade Hindman. Comic-Con is just about here , so we'll preview in Digimon and Afrofuturism Lounge. This is KPBS Midday Edition. Connecting our communities through conversation. Comic-Con season is here , and outside of the main convention , local events are spotlighting creators of comics , artists and stories not often told in the mainstream. One such event is in Dijon , which is amplifying native artists and their stories. I'm here with two of the organizers , Katie Wolfowitz , who is a faculty director at the Indigenous Futures Institute , otherwise known as IFC. She is also a professor of literature at UC San Diego and an enrolled member of the Cherokee Nation. Also Che Lowry. He is the executive director of the ifI. As well as a comic book creator. Che and Katie , welcome to Midday Edition.
S2: Thank you.
S3: Thanks for having us.
S1: Glad to have you here. The other event we're highlighting is Afrofuturism Lounge. And joining us again is LaWanda Richmond. She is executive director of the nonprofit Greenwich and a fellow with the IFC. Luana , always a pleasure to have you on the show. Well , it's always a pleasure.
S4: To be with you.
S1: Glad to have you. So , che , I'm going to start with you. Uh , this is the inaugural. And talk about what ignited interest in the idea.
S2: Thank you for the question. So I've worked with a local Kumeyaay artist , my good friend Johnny Bear Contreras , for a couple of years now. He has partnered with his friend Mike Tory , who was one of the founders of the San Diego Comic-Con. And those gentlemen have done a lot to get native comic creators into the main. San Diego Con over the years. And so Johnny and I have presented at the main Comic Con for the last four years , and our interactions with some of the panelists from those past experiences created the momentum to then talk about having our own indigestion , and then very blessed to work with Katie and to be a part of the Indigenous Futures Institute , which is within the School of Public Health at UC San Diego. I feel like we have all the right people in two of these uh , very distinguished , iffy , uh , family members that I'm sitting here with. I feel very inspired when I , you know , talk and visit with them. And so Katie and I have partnered to create indigestion. The purpose is to uplift and honor indigenous storytellers and artists from multiple native nations. And then also always being mindful and respectful that the original storytellers of this area and land , the Kumeyaay people , always come first. One of our presenters , Ethan Venegas , is a author of a Kumeyaay history comic. So Katie and I have been talking as we have been building this effort , in that there's just a lot of desire in the community and a lot of passion among our fellow native scholars and our friends. People want to hear the types of stories they want to see , the types of images that indigenous people can create. And so it's a privilege to be able to get into the park and market building , which is part of the UCSD campus , and get into that space. And , you know , let the original people have their say. Mhm.
S1: Mhm. Well , Katie , you've been a driving force in organizing the con. What makes San Diego a special place for indigenous specifically ? I mean , besides this being the site for Comic-Con.
S3: Well , I think I think that was that was part of it. And it was it was something that we had joked about before. And I think Luana and I talked about this too. There's almost something about San Diego that lends itself to this. There's something organically Nerdy here in relation to comics. Um , that I think is just really beautiful and very grounded in place. And so , you know , I think it's both about SSDC , but also a more general kind of affinity for comics in San Diego. But I think the other interest was also just one born out of being fans of this work. Right ? And seeing the power that these stories carry for readers and the desire to have those stories told in this way. And so in some ways , it really wasn't intentional. It was it kind of happened organically and in the right pieces came together. We didn't plan for that beautiful Kumeyaay comic that Ethan , you know , really kind of took the helm up to come out , you know , only a few months before this year's Comic-Con. But it just really worked out beautifully. And then they still have a great display up at the La Jolla Historical Center celebrating that piece. So I think it's it's one part just San Diego and the second part being having just the right people and community together , um , over the years. I mean , I think that's one of the things that's really special about ifI is , it's it's , you know , a lot of us who just really enjoy culture and enjoy ideas and collaboration and being together in space to be creative and really dream unapologetically. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , Luana , the Afrofuturism Lounge is now in its eighth year already. Remind us how the lounge first came about.
S4: Oh my goodness , me and some friends were. I hate to say it , we were kind of , you know , talking about how the black creators at Comic-Con are split up and they're in the same space all day , but they don't get to talk to each other. And we thought it would be nice to do like , a little private party for all the creators we know. And someone suggested that we open it to the public. And so like maybe a month lead time , we opened it to the public and 750 people showed up. Mhm. Wow.
S1: Wow. So , you know , there was a demand , right ? Yes. Well I mean from there to now it's going to be at the Fleet Science Center this year. Yeah. That's pretty exciting. So talk a bit about what sets this year apart from others.
S4: You know the location. The one thing about the lounge , for the most part , we've been in a different location almost every year , and the event has always been designed around the strengths of the location. In this case , being at the fleet one , we get to go back to an all ages format so people can bring their kids again to admission to the lounge will also include admission to all of the exhibits on the lower floor , which means we get to , you know , strengthen exposure to science and technology. And three , because we've been doing it for eight years. We're able to get support and engagement from people who may have been hesitant to step out in the past.
S1: So a major throughline between indigestion and Afrofuturism Lounge is this focus on the future.
S3: Um , but I think one of the things that's also important in indigenous futures , or the way people are thinking about them right now , is also a respect and appreciation of the past. So futures doesn't mean we forget where we are or where we've been. It means taking those things seriously as we look into the future. And so for me , Indigenous Futures is really about giving us permission to dream , giving us permission to be creative. Um , of thinking compassionately about how we're represented , about how we show up for all of our various communities. And yeah , I guess I'll leave it there.
S1: All right. Jake.
S2: I think when I think of indigenous futures , you know , the westernized concept of time as linear doesn't fit. I think in a lot of indigenous cultures , especially the ones that I was raised in , in that futures time space is more of a vortex. And so that things that may have happened 500 years ago are very relevant today. They could have happened yesterday. When you come from cultures that are tens of thousands of years old. And so to me , futures is the same as the word ancestry in that they can both describe. Here is what is. And that might sound. Or if someone were to read that they might be confusing. But that's the beauty of combining imagery. When you work with an artist and you say , oh , can you please help draw this or help paint this , uh , concept that I'm thinking of ? And that's the power of , you know , the visual arts , which indigenous people , all indigenous cultures have always used sequential art to convey who we are and why we are here and what we hope to achieve , what we will achieve. And comic book panel art is a very cool and modern and new way of using sequential art. But I , I also view the basketry that our native basket weavers create , and we are on a panel at the main con where we're going to be talking about the , the sequential art in basketry and comic book panels , and then you have sequential art in our regalia , in our indigenous architecture , even in our land relationships. There's that theme over and over and over.
S1: Um , well , Luana , um , how would you define Afrofuturism and how does it intersect with indigenous futures ? Wow.
S4: So let's start with Lucy. All right. Um , the woman that was said to be the mother of Earth. And so we can think about ancestry. Afrofuturism is a term that was coined in 1992. It came out. Mark Dery put it in a book , but it's really more like Sankofa , which is the connection between past , present and future. There's a saying it's never too late to go back and fix it , which really is about understanding that just because we've always done a thing , it doesn't mean we have to keep doing it , or just because it is how it is , doesn't mean that's how it can be or will be. Um. Afrofuturism is defined in some ways by the constraints of literature are entertainment. A lot of people like to just stay there , but me and a lot of the people that I work with look at applied Afrofuturism and understanding the past and the present to co-create the future , because the reality is everything that we're doing today has repercussions. It's like the butterfly effect and getting people to think about the future in terms of what they're for and what they want and what they aspire to. So many people , when you talk to them about the future , they only think about it in terms of the absence of whatever is bothering them or being the opposite of whatever it is. And quite often the direction or the destination isn't a way from what you don't like , it's towards what you want. And so a lot of the work that I do in the artists that I work with are towards getting people to imagine and co-create the future that we desire. So because there's a saying where your attention flows , your energy goes , and you attract what you focus on. And so , um , so much of what I do is about getting people to focus on a future where we can all thrive and , and be healthy and have , you know , the beautiful life that's possible when we're looking forward instead of , you know , getting caught up in , like , resentments and. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Things.
S4: Things.
S1: It is the secret law of attraction. I like that. Well , I know that there's going to be a mixture between indigestion and Afrofuturism. Lounge.
S4: I think that , you know , we're all better together. And I think the more time we can spend in community and having creators from different backgrounds together just kind of enriches the visions that we co-create. But also in those instances where there are misunderstandings. If you already have community and you already have relationships , it's much easier to move forward and move past those things.
S1: So what Luana just said Chegg.
S3: And so I just never want to forget that. And I think that's always a really important point. Right. That these two concepts are always already sort of in conversation with one another. And so I think that's that's a really important point to consider. And I think is one of the things that is really beautiful about being able to have a collaborative mixer together.
S2: I think that native people and indigenous people and African American people were all people of rhythm. And by that , I mean there's rhythm in when we connect with each other and there's time and place that can draw us together in a good way. And I really feel like I feel very blessed that this is the time and place , like , this is our rhythm. And together , when we get together at our mixer , good things are going to happen. Connections , creative ideas. And yeah , we're going to have a DJ and there's going to be dancing. So , you know , there will be iffy dancing. That'll happen to. Us.
S1: We continue the conversation about indigestion and Afrofuturism lounge and their gateway into the comics world when KPBS Midday Edition returns. Welcome back. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition , I'm Jade Hindman. We're continuing the conversation about two events spotlighting the connection between comic creators , indigenous artists and black artists. I'm here with two of the organizers of Indigenous Katy Walkouts. Faculty director at the Indigenous Futures Institute , and Chad Lowery , executive director at the IFC. Also Luana Richmond , executive director of greenies. She is also a fellow at IFC and an organizer of Afrofuturism Lounge. So I'd love to talk about all of your relationships to comics and art. Chegg I know you grew up reading comics and became an author and publisher yourself. Talk a little bit about your own journey.
S2: So I was always inspired by the lack of native characters in stories , in books , and in comics. When I was younger , I would often , you know , pull comic books off of the rack at bookstores or different stores. And so I like Batman. I made a vow to myself that one day when I grew up , I was going to tell my own story , and I was going to take charge , and I was going to be responsible. And so that's why I published my own comics. Now , it's very important , as native writers and artists , that we own as much of the publishing process as possible , because we haven't as native people. For a large part of this country's history , our narrative and our imagery has often been Told and owned by outsiders. And so as an educator , I've worked in PBS and I've taught in schools , but I made the choice to go into pop culture and comics probably about 20 years ago , because I did see that comic books were becoming the foundation for a lot of , you know , the multimedia , the films. And that's what unfortunately educates a lot of non-Native people about what they think native people and native culture and native history is.
S1:
S4: My cousins used to call me misread and so I would read everything. My mom would buy me books , but comic books kind of filled the gap in between. And so I would just , you know , when we were at the store , I would throw a comic book into the cart and started reading everything from fairy tales to Archie and Veronica and just whatever. And as I got older , the content shifted , and it was never a thing that I like. Oh , this is what I'm going to do. It was just part of what I consumed in the process of consuming content. And I looked up and , um , yeah , it's not it was never like , I'm going to do this for a living. All of it was just fun and entertainment and even doing the Afrofuturism Lounge , it was literally something we were doing for fun. And so this is where it is.
S1: It's not even work.
S4: Well it's work.
S1: You're like , wait a minute.
S4: But it's happy work. I mean , yeah , you know , I get to , you know , promote my friends and hang out with and meet people that I used to quote when I give a lecture.
S1: I'm hash tagging that happy work. It should be a thing. All right , well , Katie , I know you're relatively new to the comics realm. You recently taught your first comics class. Why do you see comics as one of the best ways to tell indigenous stories ? Yeah.
S3: Thank you. Yeah. I am a later in life comic fan. I joke that when I was younger , I was already into sci fi and video games and D&D and , like , you can only have so many , you know , of those kinds of hobbies. If you're someone my age and still , you know , have some standing in high school and junior high at that time. But yeah , I fell in love with comics maybe 10 or 15 years ago , and in some ways very organically in a lot of the ways that Lorna was describing. But I think I was I was lucky enough to teach my first full class fully dedicated to comics this fall , but I've been teaching graphic memoirs and comics for a few years now in my courses , and I think there's a variety of reasons. They're powerful to students , I think. absolutely , to Chase's point , especially when teaching students about , you know , native story comics are some of the most dynamic and powerful spaces for creators to do that. Right now , they're more affordable than making a movie or a TV show. Right. Although we can still use a lot more support to make sure that these publications continue to circulate. But they also invite space for imagination. And there's not a requirement for the creators or characters to be representative of a whole people or like all native people ever , including hundreds and hundreds of different communities. And so I think comics give us the permission to be creative and to really insist that it doesn't have to be a particular cookie cutter idea of what a native person is. There's a lot more freedom that's already baked into the idea of comics , because the of the assumption that you're going to find superheroes and fantastical things. And so I think also that , you know , we're sort of in a moment where many of us consume both text and visual culture constantly , whether we want to or not. Day in and day out. And so I think many of us are already predisposed to engaging with material in that way. And so I find that they teach really well in class , and they allow students to really think about story and visual literacy in ways that are really relevant to the cultural moment we're living in.
S4: Yeah , I was going to say , unless you're Ryan Coogler , if you have an original idea or story , it's better to do it as a comic book first in order to maintain and retain control of your IP. Mm.
S3: Mm. Yeah. Yeah.
S4: Yeah. Because that deal that he negotiated is so rare. So with that as a consideration , if you already own the IP through your comic books , then any movies that are made out of it , you still own the IP.
S1: And for people who don't know what IP is.
S4: The intellectual property and intellectual property is so important when you get into creative space.
S1: Right ? I mean that. I mean , he's got , uh , he'll have checks coming for a very long time with that move that he made. Mhm. Mhm.
S2: Mhm. Yeah. Well and for native people it's specifically uh who controls the narrative and the imagery that impacts actual policies that , uh impact our children and it impacts our sovereignty as native people. Uh , because laws are passed based on people's perceptions. Right. And where do they get those perceptions ? Uh , regarding native people , they get it from pop culture. They get it from movies. They don't unfortunately. They don't get it in the education system here in this country. Right.
S1: Right. Well , I mean , that brings me to my next question. Because often we have to be advocates for our own stories. So , you know , I'm wondering how you're thinking about that advocacy in the current political moment.
S2: I think all creative people have to have courage , and they have to have an adventuresome spirit within , because you're putting yourself out there right now. If you're a person of color in America and you are putting yourself out there , welcome to what it's been like for indigenous people since day one. Number one , uh , we've always had that pressure. We've always had , you know , that stress. So I appreciate very much anybody who puts their stories out , who creates the work that the rest of us can look at and feel emotions , be inspired by and take action. Right. That's why repressive governments , they don't want educated people. They don't want artists out there because , you know , you create critical minded people who question things , right ? They don't want young people questioning things in this country right now. And so I do feel like in many ways , the rest of the country is kind of joining us as native people in the sense of , you know what ? We have this pressure and stress , and it's hard to kind of verbalize what I did with my stress in that regard. As I created a comic where my comic book character is like an Avenger. The story is called Follow the Water , and the character is a native man who happens to be a sheriff in the late 1800s. So all of my stress , my inability to verbalize what I was feeling , I created this character and he does things in my comic and I'm like , okay , now I can exist back here in the real world. Mhm.
S3: Mhm.
S1: Yeah , everybody's got to have that outlet.
S4: So the boondocks are. So. So basically , Aaron McGruder was great in terms of social commentary before there was a cartoon on TV. And we look at just throughout history , there have been comic artists who created , sometimes just in one panel , they could say what everyone is thinking and feeling without having to be censored , because sometimes , you know , they say a picture can say is worth more than a thousand words. A really well drawn image can help people conceptualize things that , you know , like sometimes you feel like something is off , but you can't really put it into words. Or you wonder if you're the only person who feels that way. But you can see a comic in the newspaper or nowadays a meme , and really , you know , understand and be activated in ways that a newspaper article might not do.
S3: Yeah , I want to kind of see if I can thread the needle through the beautiful points you both made and things we said earlier. And that I think also a lot of the work that we're creating or advocating for is also about joy and healing. And I think that there's a strong desire on the part of many , many people for that. So I come to this question when you when you ask that , I thought about it as a teacher , you know , what do I see young people interested in ? And and I mean that specifically what they're interested in , not what I try to force them to be interested in. I think anyone who thinks that you can convince young people to think a certain way has not spent a lot of time with people in their early 20s. That's just not how it works , right ? Um , but I see a real yearning and a hunger with my students for work like this because of its sort of relentless , unapologetic commitment to joy and to healing. And so I think that takes us back to an idea of futures that doesn't try to ignore the past , but grapples in it with in a way that is also trying to reckon with a future that we can all live in together in a healthy manner. And so ? So that's some of what I think about. And to kind of be even more , more concrete , I think I see many of my students , most of whom are , are not native or black , finding a lot of power in these stories because there's a sense kind of to Luna's point of like , you feel something , but you don't know how to say it. A grounding and hearing these narratives and a better understanding of stories. And I'm thinking really specifically of the powerful work the Kumeyaay comic is going to do. If you live in San Diego , you know , have students who feel a sense of knowing that they live in the beautiful homelands of Kumeyaay people , but not fully understanding what that means , and feeling that loss and wanting to be in a better relationship to that place and understanding , you know , if you've lived somewhere since time immemorial , over 10,000 years , you know it pretty well. And so how can we be guided by the beautiful stewardship of Kumeyaay and other Southern California native people who've. Who've been caretakers of this land for so long.
S1: Well , before I go , is there anything else anyone wants to add ? Yeah.
S4: Um. Joy is resistance. And so , um , if anyone's missed the point , in addition to whatever things get discussed , we really want to make sure people have a good time. Because in times like this , when you know the world is what it is , it's important for us to remember to enjoy and take pleasure in the company of one another.
S1: Couldn't have said it better myself. All right. I've been speaking with Luana Richmond , executive director of the nonprofit group and a fellow with the Indigenous Futures Institute and the organizer of Afrofuturism Lounge. Also , IFP faculty director Katie Walkouts and executive director Craig Lowry , who both co-organized and Digital Con Afrofuturism Lounge , will take place at the Fleet Science Center tomorrow , July 24th and in Dijon , will kick off on Friday , July 25th and Sunday , July 27th at UCSD Park and Market in downtown Lahaina. Katie Craig , great conversation. Thank you all for joining me today.
S4: Thank you for having me.
S5: Thank you.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
