Six states agree on a proposal for Colorado River cutbacks, California has a counter

S1: California goes rogue with its own plan to conserve water from the Colorado River.

S2: The stakes are really high. This river supplies 40 million people.

S1: I'm Andrew Beau and this is KPBS midday edition. California's landmark duplex law hasn't done much for housing production to.

S2: Solve the housing crisis. We can't just keep building single family homes or 50 plus unit rentals.

S1: A North County tribal government is ditching the state's casino regulators , and San Diego based jazz saxophonist Charles McPherson shares his inspiration as he kicks off his latest tour. At the age of 83. That's ahead on KPBS Midday Edition. Yesterday was a major deadline for the seven Western states that rely on the Colorado River for water. The Federal Bureau of Reclamation asked to the states to submit plans for reducing reliance on the river. It's looking for ways to preserve the dwindling water supplies in Lake Mead and Lake Powell , two of the nation's largest reservoirs. Joining me now to explain what some of the states are proposing and why California has its own proposal is Alex Hager , who reports on water and the Colorado River Basin for KUNC in northern Colorado. Alex , welcome back to Midday Edition.

S2: Thanks for having me back.

S1: So remind us why Lake Mead and Lake Powell are so important and what's at stake if these Western states don't start using less water.

S2: Well , this is where the Southwest stashes its extra supplies. Mother Nature has ebbs and flows. It has dry years and wet years , and the region can only plan in advance if it knows that it has stored water to rely on. And more imminently than that , the water levels in Lake Mead and Lake Powell , the nation's two largest reservoirs , are at record lows. And if they slip any lower , they could threaten to go too low to generate hydropower , which supplies electricity to millions of people. And they could even get too low to pass through the dams at all. So right now , the federal government is looking for ways to prop up those reservoirs and they asked the states for input. And this is the states giving them that input.

S1:

S2: That's enough to supply millions of homes. If you want a visual. An acre foot is an area the size of a football field , covered a foot deep with water.

S1:

S2: Right now there is a massive supply demand imbalance. Climate change has been supercharging a drought that has gone on for 23 years now. And there's simply not enough water in the reservoirs to keep using it at this rate without draining them.

S1: So six of the seven states have proposed a plan for reducing their water use.

S2: And the state said , how does one and a half sound ? They have come up with a plan to find one and a half million acre feet of water. And they are doing that by accounting for evaporation and , you know , inefficient infrastructure like leaky canals. They're basically saying there are folks in California , Arizona and Nevada who are promised water that doesn't physically exist and they're legally old water that doesn't physically exist because it's evaporating off the surface of Lake Mead and slipping in through cracks and dirt in canals before it has the chance to flow all the way down to their taps. So they came up with this deal to conserve 1.5 million acre feet each of the next two years. And that sort of corrects for this accounting imbalance.

S1: You described this as a rare agreement among the six states.

S2: The fact that six states got together on anything is impressive. The stakes are really high. This river supplies 40 million people. It supplies cities like Denver , Phoenix , Los Angeles , Las Vegas , San Diego , and a whole bunch of other ones in between. And a huge , multi-billion dollar agricultural industry. So if you cut back on water anywhere , someone is going to lose out. It is not politically popular to take water away from farmers or cities or anywhere in between. So it's really hard to find consensus. The states have been stuck in a standoff. And the fact that they agreed to a plan that would mean even some cuts for some states is fairly impressive.

S1: California was not part of this plan that the six states are proposing.

S2: They use more than any other state , and they have some of the oldest water rights in the Colorado River. And based on the way that the river is governed , that means that in the sake or in the case of a crisis , they will be the last to see cutbacks. So they would rather stick with plans the way things are. They have message that they want to stick with the existing law of the river.

S1: Alex late yesterday , California submitted its own proposal.

S2: But it's not exactly a new proposal. They're mostly pointing back to a plan they first came up with last October that outlines 400,000 acre feet , a year of conservation from now through 2026. But they also reiterated , they said we want to play within the bounds of the current law of the river. And that is a law that based on the system of prior appropriation , based on the system of , you know , respecting the oldest water rights , the most , that is a law that that tends to benefit water users in California. It's not a shock that they were the lone holdout here. But this plan does offer less conservation than the six state agreement.

S1: And neither of these proposals would meet the federal target of 2 to 4 million acre feet of water conservation.

S2: However , they are going to need to save more water , but it wouldn't be a shock if they came up with another smaller Band-Aid deal for the last few years. There has been a lot of Band-Aid deals. There have been a lot of kind of last ditch efforts to prop up these reservoirs , keep the hydropower flowing , keep the dams in operation until 2026. There is going to be a bigger negotiation that might result in more permanent changes to how the river is managed in 2026 , because that's when the current guidelines expire. So this might just join this raft of. Smaller patchwork deals that are keeping operations going at the reservoirs until 2026.

S1:

S2: The six date proposal has a lot of consensus. It saves more water than a lot of these other Band-Aid deals have recently. So I would expect the government to take certainly some of that. But the feds have set a deliberately vague deadline of spring when they will release a draft of their plan for how to save more water.

S1: I've been speaking with Alex Hager , who reports on water and the Colorado River Basin for KUNC in northern Colorado. Alex , thank you for joining us.

S2: It was a pleasure to be here.

S1: When you look at San Diego's housing market , you find quite a bit of luxury housing , a small amount of low income housing. But for the people in the middle , it's getting harder and harder to buy or rent. KPBS reporter Jacob Air looks at the effort to build more workforce housing.

S2: While San Diego rents and home prices are starting to come down , Zillow says this is currently the fifth least affordable region in the nation when it comes to buying in seventh least affordable for renting compared to average income. That's bringing things to a boiling point for many middle income workers.

S3: Many feel like they may not ever be able to afford a home in San Diego in the communities where they work.

S2: Keesha Borden is a director at the California Teachers Association. The Union Leader represents educators across San Diego and Imperial counties. She says the lack of affordable housing is contributing to a teacher shortage.

S3: And we're also seeing our families having to move as well. So we're seeing a decline in enrollment because families simply can't afford to live here.

S2: So some local school districts are taking matters into their own hands by building more affordable homes on their land. And if.

S3: Our school districts are able.

S2: To to.

S3: Provide some of that housing for their employees , I think all the better. So hopefully , if this is something that can spread to other districts. And San Diego Unified was able to pass a bond in order to build housing.

S2: In everyone's life where they would like to be a homeowner. Mohammed Alamuddin is a policy associate at UC Berkeley's Turner Center for Housing Innovation. He says moderate income workers like teachers , make up a significant portion of the population statewide , and they're having trouble affording to live where they work. Number one , rents are too high and this is what's leading to people leaving the state. And number two , homeownership is an acceptable. All in all , Dean says zoning is part of the issue. He says 70% of urban land in California is zoned for single family housing , which makes the cost of living pricey. That's where workforce housing comes into play , and it would be placed in a way where it's duplexes and triplexes or cottage clusters , basically a bunch of housing units surrounded around the corner. He says the smaller floor plans and denser construction and multifamily housing are what make renting and buying more affordable. And middle income housing doesn't all have to be new construction. Or we could essentially take market rate multifamily housing projects and convert them to middle income projects. Sean Rossin is co-founder of Waterford Property Company , which converts current properties through a combination of bonds and property tax exemptions. Rossin says the exemptions have caused some controversy over lost revenue for cities , but that the program works. Waterford has such a project underway with hundreds of units and as candidate we've lower grants 18% across the board from from where they were. What that translates into is , is that we have now about $800 a month monthly savings to our tenants. The City of San Diego is offering incentives to build middle income housing , but very few developers are taking them up on it. In 2021 , they only built 19 middle income units as well. We have produced thousands of low income units. We produced tens of thousands luxury units. We've really provided just a couple dozen middle income units , and that's the main challenge. San Diego Mayor Todd Gloria says he established a middle income housing working group in 2021 and they've helped create upcoming policy change. He says some workforce housing is starting to be built now. We're increasingly we're talking about our sizable units in multifamily developments near transit and jobs. That is a difference for us. But without those kinds of units , we will never be able to solve this problem. The housing crisis has been felt in the United States before , after World War Two. Has been solved in multiple other countries. We have to look at the solutions that they're proposing and let that guide us. Right. We don't reinvent the wheel , but we look at what works and we replicate it. Gloria will bring a second housing action package to the city council in the coming weeks with more incentives to build a middle income housing. Jacob Air , KPBS News.

S1: We're going to talk more about how zoning laws impact housing costs. The California Home Act , also known as SB nine , was touted as a breakthrough and California's efforts to boost its housing supply. The law allows duplexes on most lots zoned for single family homes. But one year since it took effect , a new report says the law has spurred very little new construction and that it needs reform if it's to have any real impact on the state's housing shortage. I'm joined now by one of the report's authors , Mohammed Alameddine. He's a policy associate with the Turner Center for Housing Innovation at UC Berkeley. Mohammad , welcome. To midday edition.

S2: Hello , Andrew. Thank you for having me.

S1: Earlier in the program , we heard you talking about how zoning laws can impact the cost of housing. One of the state's recent efforts on that front is SB nine.

S2: Number one , it was to open up the 70% of urban land that's zoned for single family. And allowing people that own a home to split their lot. And they could either sell the other side of the property , either side of the law , or they could build on it a duplex or single home with an 82 or just a single home. It was meant to basically use existing land to build smaller housing structures that are just a little bit more affordable for entry level homeownership opportunities.

S1: And your study looked at the impacts of the law in its first year.

S2: And our findings were that thus far the law has had little to no effect to the production of housing in California. And it leads us to believe that there needs to be further reforms to the law for it to be better utilized by residents in California.

S1: So San Diego has had an especially weak response to SB nine. Not many applications filed and none of them approved so far. And one of the reasons your study found was that the accessory dwelling unit program in the city is more generous and people might be just more interested in building more accessory dwelling units than , you know , splitting their lot and building a duplex. Are there advantages to using SB nine for a duplex instead of accessory dwelling units ? For example , would an SB nine project be likelier to produce families for housing with children as opposed to ADAS , which might be more , you know , geared towards single adults ? Yes.

S2: So Senate Bill nine units in San Diego as well as their ADU policies really help. San Diego has chosen to implement the law and to bolster housing production for both. And Senate Bill nine benefit is that the slot split could lead to more units for home ownership and for larger sized homes for families to live in , especially in comparison with accessory dwelling units that are typically 750 square feet. Senate Bill nine The standards adopted in San Diego allow for much larger homes to be built. Unfortunately , it's a lot cheaper for a homeowner to build an 82. There's limited impact fees. There are guaranteed timelines. If a small developer wants to build an ADU on a single family home , they can because there isn't an owner occupancy requirement. The typical homeowner in San Diego and in a lot of the state can't really afford to split their lot and then build two more units. They need some sort of assistance or there needs to be more of a guarantee implemented at the state or local level that permits are going to be approved at a certain time. Really like to get the guesswork out of Senate Bill nine is the best way for us to increase the production of Senate Bill nine housing units in San Diego and the city seems like it's moving towards that direction. And San Diego in the past has been an example for a lot of zoning policies that the state has later adopted.

S1:

S2: Senate Bill nine is to be reformed and approved upon at the state level for there to be more of an adoption by localities and to ensure that these units are being built. What's being suggested in the paper is that there needs to be a limitation of impact fees or strategies to ensure the infrastructure could be paid for. With new housing units being built , pre-approved designed plans , save money for homeowners , and that could be implemented at the local level. And really we're seeing across the state , is that set standards or for SB nine units to have the same standards as a single family home or an ADU ? Will significantly increase SB nine production.

S1: The state legislature just began a new legislative session.

S2: It's a streamlining bill for affordable housing on religious , organizational land and also near universities. I'm going to be watching if Senate Bill nine reforms are going to be introduced in the next two weeks. There's a possibility of that. But to solve the housing crisis , we need to bolster the production of missing middle housing. Everything from a two plex to a courtyard cluster bungalows to low to mid rise apartments. To solve the housing crisis , we can't just keep building single family homes or 50 plus unit rentals. There are talks in the legislature about introducing a bill for missing middle housing production. These units are much smaller , so they're more affordable for entry level homeownership. They are easier for new developers to enter the space. This year , I would say thus far examining state laws that are being introduced. It's much less than what we've seen in previous years , which is a little concerning because the housing crisis is only getting worse annually.

S1: I've been speaking with Muhammad Alameddine of the Turner Center for Housing Innovation at UC Berkeley. Mohamed , thank you for joining us.

S2: Well , thank you for having me. You.

S1: This is KPBS midday edition. I'm Andrew Bowen. In an unprecedented move , a San Diego County tribe will be the first to withdraw from its tribal gaming compact with the state of California. The Rincon Band of Louis Sanyo Indians will instead opt for federal oversight of its operations. After nearly two decades of legal battles over how California manages tribal gaming operations , Midday Edition host Jade Hindman spoke with Loren Jay Mapp , who covered the story for the San Diego Union-Tribune , as well as the chairman of the tribe of Beau Mazzetti about that decision. Here's that interview now.

S4: First things first.

S3: So without that compact , they're able to have class one gaming , which is any kind of cultural games. I know in my tribe we have a peach Pit game. Usually the prizes that whoever wins gets to go and plant the next harvest. So , you know , with class one , it's something where it's cultural and you're playing for a minimal prize. Class two , gaming is something like bingo and that you can do without a state compact with just an agreement with the federal government. But for Vegas style gambling , these are slot machines and house banked games like blackjack. I believe you have to have this agreement with the state.

S4: And as we mentioned , there have been a number of legal issues involving state oversight of tribal gaming operations in recent years.

S3: They've been trying to have some kind of clarity or insight onto what the money they paid for. It goes to as far as regulating the casino. And the state has not been able to give them an answer on that. And so they won their case. And because of that , they were able to leave their compact and work with an agreement through secretarial procedures. There are other tribes in them that have sued as well , because the compact that the state has negotiated overstep what they're legally supposed to do. So they're only supposed to regulate class three gaming. But in California in particular , the state has also snuck in other pieces of its agenda into the compact. So things like environmental regulations and making sure that people on tribal lands pay child support. Those kinds of things have been snuck into these compacts and they're not supposed to be there. And then last year , a report came out from the state auditor's office , and it showed that the state had not effectively managed the fund of money it gets from tribes to regulate tribal gaming , and that they hadn't ensured that tribal payments had aligned with regulatory costs. And then further , the public health department hadn't demonstrated that it was effectively managing the problem gambling and prevention programs it was supposed to be managing.

S4: So is this what ultimately led to the Rincon band withdrawing from state regulation.

S3: Ultimately for income driver between going and leaving their state compact and working directly with the federal government for regulation that is , that they want to build a stronger sense of sovereignty. Tribes are individual nations , and by not having to work with the state government , it increases their tribal sovereignty because they have more of a nation to nation relationship with the federal government.

S4:

S3: Right now that for every casino in the state and every casino across the country , the individual tribes have to have their own that to establish their own independent regulatory branch. And those are the folks that are in the casino every single day making sure that cash gambling is done correctly , that new employees are having their background checks done correctly , that they're ensuring that there is no criminal activity happening within the casino. So those are the folks that are there every single day. Previously , the state was coming in and doing doing checks of the casino annually. And instead of the state doing that , it'll be the federal government doing that.

S4: And can we take a step back and talk about why transparent oversight of tribal gaming is so important ? I mean , the profits at stake here benefit more than just tribes that operate casinos. Isn't that right ? Yeah.

S3: So tribes that operate casinos , they pay the state in two different ways. One is that they pay for this regulatory cost and they want to ensure that the amount of money that they're paying for regulation and for this program , these programs to prevent problem gambling and trick problem gambling , that that money is being used effectively and efficiently. The other money that they pay to the state is , in the case of Rincon , it's 1.2 million. Dollars a year. That money goes to non-gaming tribes in the state. And there's a lot of reasons why tribes might not want to have gaming. But often the reason why they don't is because they're in remote areas where it just doesn't make economic sense to build a casino because they won't be bringing as many people into the tribal lands for that purpose. So and that's the profit sharing model that we have in California. And Rincon has said that boom is that when Trump said that the tribe will still continue to pay into profit sharing and still continue to help support tribes that don't have gaming operations. But really , they they really just wanted to know that the other fund , the special distribution fund , was being used correctly , which as I said before , the state audit found it. It hasn't really been being used properly.

S4: And put this into context for me.

S3: Last summer and the five other tribes in the state , mostly in central and northern California , they sued the state also over problems with their compacts that have provisions for family law , environmental regulations , regulation and tort law , and just generally kind of going back to the mishandling of the state's special distribution fund. In 2021 , the state collected $34 million more in distribution fees and the cost of regulation for that year , which is a lot of money to be collecting and not using.

S4: A lot of gaming contracts are expiring this year.

S3: For this story , I reached out to other tribal leaders and nobody was really feeling comfortable yet talking about their individual tribal situations or what they may or may not do for a tribe to do what responded. It's not something that you can just do right away. Like , like I said , to be able to go through this process and go directly under a federal regulation , you have to have a dispute with the state over negotiating your your compact. You have to file a lawsuit against the state with the belief that the state is not negotiating your compact in good faith. Then you have to win that case and go into secretarial procedures , which is a special negotiation process to to try to come to an agreement on tribal gaming. And then if that does not work , then you can go that next step forward to ensure that you work directly with the federal government. So , you know , we might not know whether other tribes are doing this for years or certainly not. We won't know in the next few months.

S4: I've been speaking with San Diego Union Tribune reporter Lauren Jay Math. Lauren , thank you very much for talking with us today.

S3: Of course. Thank you for having me.

S4: As we just heard , the decision by the Rincon Band of Louis Senior Indians to withdraw from state gaming oversight could have big implications for tribal sovereignty in the region. The chairman of that tribe , Beau Mazzetti , joins us now with more on that decision. Beau , welcome back to Midday Edition.

S2: Thank you. Good to be with you again.

S4: All right.

S2: Our rates are approved by the federal government , not the state. But every compact has a provision whereby the tribe will pay actual on reasonable cost to the state of California for regulatory oversight , which we have no issue with that. But tell us what we're paying for. That has been the disputed item. Right.

S4: Right. And you've characterized this matter as an issue of tribal sovereignty.

S2: They also stated that you need to reach agreement with your state for games that they allow within that state. So what that meant that , okay , you have to go get an agreement with the state of California to provide gaming opportunities. In this case , it became the compact with the state of California , which we had an original. But the goal 1999 compact. Those provisions are contained in that compact , also that the tribal pay acts on reasonable cost to the state of California or regulatory oversight. Well , when we got our initial bill , it was rejected. So what we said is , okay , we'll pay half of that and we'll sit down and negotiate till we get some answers. The biggest image of our tribe , we ask questions. So we wanted to know what we were paying for in terms of our regulatory oversight. So what we could never do is get what we are paying for. And this been in dispute for over 12 years. So finally , the state got to the point because we're not going to give it until we get our answers. And obviously , the state didn't want to break that down. So they , in agreement with the tribe , said , okay , we'll withdraw our oversight responsibilities. Give it back to the federal government. The tribe and the federal government. The federal government , through the Endgame Gaming Commission now will be the oversight , not the state. Now , how does that relate to sovereignty ? It goes back to the original statement I made when the IDEA Gaming Regulatory Act was passed. The intent was for tribes to run their gaming operations. So what this does , it basically takes a state out of it.

S4:

S2: Then you had this audit , which we have been asking for , for a number of years , to do an audit of where they found that all tribal California felt that they were being charged quite a bit , but nobody had a real problem with making the payment. What We have a problem with this. Where is this money going ? Well , it turns out this audit done by the state of California , basically it after all the questions that we thought may be a problem , turned out to be a problem. Excess of charge. And they have way in excess of funds that they need in that account to provide regulatory oversight. It was far for being used in a number of various ways. I mean , it just pointed out left or right how incompetent the whole operation was being run.

S4: You know , you mentioned earlier that this decision is the culmination of many years of legal issues over exactly how the state oversees tribal gaming.

S2: With that being said , we also have to go overboard and Congress on making sure all federal regulations are met. We also have to make sure the general public feels confident that the games are being watched carefully and are operated properly. So that's a big burden. We have to make sure the general public realizes that and feels that there's not a big change in terms of the tribe working directly with the federal government versus the state.

S4: And let's talk a bit more about what's at stake here when we talk about revenue from tribal gaming. This also impacts non-gaming tribes as well.

S2: We're going to continue doing that. Our tribe , in order to help those tried but are less fortunate. So we have no no problem doing that at all. And we're going to continue to do that.

S4: And now , of course , California's tribes are sovereign , independent entities.

S2: And so it's up to each of those folks. But I think they're going to be facing the same questions. We have great accountability. What are you using our money or that we're paying in ? Or are you to provide regulatory oversight ? How much does the cloud do and what are you doing with those funds ? So I think there may be vocal that will follow us. But again , that's an independent decision by tribal governments that are active in gaming.

S4:

S2: And hopefully , you know , we said we're a model for other trying to stand up and ask questions of the state.

S4: Both , thank you very much for speaking with us.

S2: Well , my pleasure. My pleasure.

S1: This is KPBS midday edition. I'm Andrew Bowen. As we kick off Black History Month today , we celebrate one of San Diego's legendary jazz composers and saxophonist Charles McPherson , who has been releasing music since 1964. Now , in his mid-eighties , he's still touring and performing , including an upcoming sold out performance at the Athenaeum this month. In 2021 , we asked McPherson about his musical influences , his approach to songwriting , improvising and performing , and how it all resulted in his newest record , Jazz Dance Suites , released in late 2020. Here he is in his own words.

S5: One of my inspirations is Charlie Parker , and one of the first compositions or song that I heard that Charlie Parker played was of a song called Chico Chico. I didn't know Charlie Parker. I had never heard him before. And when I heard that , I heard it on a jukebox in my neighborhood , it immediately resonated with me. I was about 14 years old when I first heard this. And even though I did not know how to to explain why this resonated with me. But really , what it was I could hear , even at that young age , his sense of logic , melodic , linear logic. In other words , these long , beautiful musical phrases , improvised phrases , well connected , you know , in a linear , melodic and a very logical way. And even though I was a kid , I could hear this logic. It made sense to me. There's an album by Billie Holiday that impressed me a lot. Yeah.

S3: Yeah.

S5: That sparkle in your. It's gone. And of course , it's the famous records. It's entitled Lady in Satin. I mean , I cry now talking about listening to some of this. You're breaking my heart. You've changed. You've changed. Yeah. Is now some. I say. I learned so much from Billie Holiday in particular , not just this record , but Billie Holiday in particular , because besides having this really nice , pleasant voice , there is this high level degree of honesty and in how she sings and how she interprets. There's no egoic sense of trying to impress people. She opens her mouth , she stings the song , and there's no affectation. There's no trying to prove anything. There's nothing narcissistic about it. It's just pure emotional honesty and a very deep understanding of the words that she's singing. Yeah. Nothing.

UU: Yes.

S5: Yes. Through. It's silent. We have changed. Bela Bartok. I really love him and I got interested in him. It's funny the way it came about. I moved into this apartment and the preceding people had left a bunch of classical records that they didn't take with them and they were in good shape. There were LPs , and one of them was a symphony called the Miraculous Mandarin Suite by Bela Bartok. You know , I listened to this and I was mesmerized for about 40 minutes or however long it is. And I fell in love with him right then. Melodically and harmonically is just just gorgeous as far as I'm concerned. And I learned a lot. And that sort of interest introduced me to classical music in more of a deeper , deeper way. I really started actively listening to different composers. Any time you learn anything new , it broadens. You are just gives you more dimension as an artist and as a person. The thing about Charles Mingus is writing his ballad. Writing is just beautiful. I mean , there are many tools , ballads that Mingus wrote that I love. Portrait is one of them. I sing in all kinds of ways to.

UU: Most of the view.

S5: There was something haunting about his melodies mixed with sensuality , and also his melodic inventions were a little different. Musical curveballs all over the place. And so I get it.

UU:

S5: I was about 20 years old when I first joined his band. Mingus was in his early forties , I think , and with my own writing. Every now and then I can hear influences from Mingus and not because I'm trying to do it on a conscious level , just because of osmosis and from years of being with him and having , you know , the sounds and chords from some of his music in my in my mind. No way. Leaves a girl in his grave.

UU: SIP with a dash of with white smoke.

S5: Also , I did learn from Mingus how to be thematic in my writing because Mingus wrote lyrics to his tunes. He was very political and he wrote political songs with protest words , but he wrote love songs. He wrote his own words. And he also wrote ballet music. He wrote for for dance and movement. I think that also influenced me where that I started thinking about music in an episodic way. Well , because he certainly did. I think that kind of consciousness he brought to me , I became aware of that. You just don't write a bunch of notes. You have a reason. You have a story that you want to tell. Tip with a dash of.

UU: Glowing white smoke. You.

S5: But what I learned from Mingus , Bartok and all the just different variety of music and styles that I've listened to through the years , all of that has impacted how I think about music. And certainly led to me thinking episodically about music and. Not just writing notes for instruments to play , but also for people to dance. And that experience as being resident composer with the San Diego Ballet really brought all that to form. I learned how to write for dance and how to be aware of a storyline and not just to ramble , but write meaningfully and to be structured. And also my daughter Camille is like one of the principal dancers with the San Diego Ballet. So basically she's the inspiration for doing that project , the Jazz Dance Suites.

S1: That was legendary alto saxophonist Charles McPherson. And while his upcoming performance is sold out , you can hear more of the songs that influenced McPherson's career and music from his jazz dance suites. On our website.