You are listening to KPBS midday edition I am Tom fudge. In March high school students who plan to go to college will take a revised SAT the Scholastic aptitude test. This college entrance exam has not been a major change in 30 years. So we're going to look at some of the questions about this. They include what have been the changes made to the test and is the SAT something you absolutely have to take to get into college. And joint custodial by Matthew Hebert director of student recruitment and school relations at San Diego State University. Thank you for coming and. Joining us by phone is David Kelm CEO of C2 Education which provides tutoring, SAT help in various locations across the country. Thank you for being with us. David White did the college board which is the nonprofit that owns the SAT decided it was time to get the SAT a makeover? There has been a lot of criticism of aimed at the test and it has been a catalyst for having some of these changes come about. Some of those criticisms are that it is unrelated to what kids learn at school. A lot of critique from both parents, students and administrators about kids being taught for a specific test. Another big criticism was that it was a poor predictor of college success. As a result and an effectual tool for admissions officers. We're having this public criticism -- it was really a huge catalyst for making some of these changes at this time. Hasn't been a poor predictor of college success? You will hear from many admissions officers that the whole idea of college completion, college readiness are poorly correlated with the test results that students who necessarily score higher are not necessarily going to be completing college in a timely fashion. Nor are they as prepared for college level work. Those two big knocks obviously have percolated into a broader discussion about workforce readiness, are we as a country behind and hiring and training future engineers and scientists. So when you hear a lot of this criticism, come up to the table, it is led to a wholesale restructuring of the existing test. Why don't you walk us through some of the changes. How does this SAT compared to the old SAT? The new SAT is designed like I said to be more correlated and related to what students have learned at school. So that there is less teaching towards the test. Like the SAT -- the new SAT will have reading packages and math that is basically what one is supposed to have learned in school. An essay that is more based on responding to a prompt as well as incorporating what you read within the prompt. As opposed to having something that is more off the cuff -- more formulaic. It is last of a -- left at the IQ test. The new test is more content driven. Some of the answers are supposed to be as such. One thing I have heard is there is going to be left obscure vocabulary. The test is going to be option -- optional for the essay. The new SHF is optional. The more rigorous schools will want to see students take the essay portion of the test. So the essay is vastly different on the new SAT versus the old one. On the new one -- it will be a 50 minute session as opposed to being 25 minutes. As I was saying the old essay section had a pretty generic prompts. If you were to write something that was based on a pretty well-defined formula of a statement, from supporting student -- statements and conclusions you get pretty high marks. The new test will require you to read basically 500 page essay and respond to the essay and kind as well is using supporting points or counterpoints from what you have read and that new essay. That is a big change. They will get rid of some of the penalties that were once associated with wrong answers. On the old one you are penalized for degassing. On the new one you will not be. Over some of the structural changes that are there. The use of a calculator -- the new SAT will have a section where calculators are not allowed. Whereas the old SAT had a calculator allowed throughout the test. Those are some of the more superficial and systemic changes that are there. The real meat of the changes I would say are in the content as opposed of the headlines are Let me turn to you Matthew. How does San Diego State use the SAT? It is part of our team admissions review. It is a critical part. All entering students who are freshmen must take either the SAT or the AZT. We don't have a preference. What does the SAT tell you about a student? We use it as a combination. And our admissions review. Certainly standing alone the SAT is not used as an admissions tools to admit or deny -- but a combination of other factors. Of course the high school grades and classes the students took. It sounds like San Diego State does not care whether you have taken the SAT or the AZT -- American College testing. They are competing organizations. You will accept either one. We don't have a preference. We have many applicants nowadays protect both. We will take whichever is comparatively higher. If the student takes both of them we will score them appropriately and if the student does better on the AZT versus the AZT -- SAT will look at that. What you think about the changes? I think we heard David say it is going to be more content driven as opposed to analytical. We are very interested to see what the scores are for students and very interested to see how it flushes out. March 5 is the new exam for the first time. Are students who are applying for admission to school for next year -- ball to 17, this is going to be our first crop of students. We're very interested and I like what I hear about the evidence-based and research-based questions. That is certainly a plus. As an institution that really is vital in our requirements for critical thinking for all of our students we love to see that. My guess are Matthew Hebert of San Diego State and David cam with a CEO of C2 Education. Talking about the revised SAT. Matthew there was a recent report from the Harvard educational college suggesting colleges should do without the SAT. Suggesting that is not the most important part. We should start judging students in a different way. Are you aware of that study? I am aware. We have been keeping up on the topic. It certainly is a healthy debate. Our position in the California State University of course is we use it in combination with other factors. It is an interesting note that all 23 of the CS use we really use the same kind of components for admissions. Looking at the SAT or AZT. Looking at the GPA in high school and etc. One -- do you want the students to take the test? We don't require it. Traditionally we have not. Historically, there have been some slight changes in the SAT over the last 20 years. Was recent in 1985. The essay part -- the writing part which was previously a decade ago, we did not take that for admission. When it changed a decade ago we did not implement that is part of our requirement. We're still not looking at that is part of the requirements. Day that last question -- I talked to Matthew about the study out of Harvard. There are are apparently hundreds of universities and colleges across the country that do not require students to take the SAT. Do you think that these tests are going to continue to be important to college admissions? I think it is a great thing they are rethinking about the whole admissions process. What we do is try to help students understand what that admissions processes like. Part of that is standardized testing. With the number of applications out there, we always like there will always be some testing component -- especially as people are trying to compare students from the East Coast and West Coast. Is a way to make apples and apples comparison. Definitely this whole notion about having a more well-rounded student is something that I think we as a society need to embrace. I was reading about the world economic -- the old up at 4 AM multitasking. Percolated throughout even our student culture as well to. So being able to see I think students who don't have as much stress and things to really have to worry about at such an early age and be able to find themselves, and have the college experience we envision 30 or 40 years ago, about going into your passion and finding out who you are or becoming less. In terms of getting into many of the schools today. David cam we just heard from CEO of C2 Education which provides tutoring , SAT help in various locations around the country -- David thank you for joining us. Also joining us to talk about the revisions of the SAT, college entrance exam was Matthew Hebert. Director of student recruitment and school relations at San Diego State University. Thank you Matt.
A redesigned SAT college entrance exam makes its debut this March, affecting high school students graduating in 2017 and later.
The College Board, the non-profit behind the test, says it’s changing the SAT to “to focus on the few things that evidence show matter most for college and career readiness.”
Under the new test, students won’t be required to take the essay portion of the exam, there will be no penalty for wrong answers and calculator use will be restricted.
David Kim, CEO of C2 Education — which provides SAT tutoring — said on Tuesday's Midday Edition, "There’s been a lot of criticism aimed at the test. Some of those criticisms are that it’s unrelated to what kids learn at school… Another big criticism is that it’s been a poor predictor of college success."
Kim said the redesigned test will aim to incorporate information from real-world lesson plans. "The new SAT is designed to be more related to what students have learned at school, so there’s less supposed teaching toward the test,” said Kim.
Matthew Hebert, director of student recruitment and school relations at San Diego State University, said students who struggle with the new SAT can always take the ACT instead, and it won't affect their application to SDSU.
Hebert said SAT scores are not a make-or-break part of the application process. "Standing alone, the SAT is not used as an admissions tool to admit or deny a student. It’s used in combination with other factors,” he said.
