JOHN YDSTIE, host:
In Islamabad, the week-long standoff between the Pakistani government and a radical Muslim cleric shows no sign of resolution. Today, sporadic gunfire was heard outside the mosque where the cleric and several hundred of his followers are holed up. The government has issued a final warning for them to surrender, but there's no sign of an imminent assault on the mosque, which is in the center of the Pakistani capital.
Declan Walsh, a reporter for the British newspaper The Guardian, is on the line from Islamabad. Thanks for being with us.
Mr. DECLAN WALSH (Reporter, The Guardian): My pleasure.
YDSTIE: Last week the government seemed willing to wait things out but it sounds a little bit like officials are running out of patience.
Mr. WALSH: That's right. Positions hardened dramatically over the weekend. President Musharraf issued a statement saying that the militants had one choice, either to surrender or be killed. A couple of hours later, the chief cleric inside the mosque, his name is Abdul Rashid Gazi, also issued a statement saying that he and his followers were willing to die as martyrs, and adding that they hoped their deaths would spark an Islamic revolution here in Pakistan.
YDSTIE: I suppose the big fear is that if security forces try to fight their way in, there could be a bloodbath.
Mr. WALSH: Absolutely. And the government says that there are about 50 to 60 hardened militants inside, and - but there's also an unknown number of women, children and teenagers in the mosque. The government estimates run in the low hundreds. The cleric inside the mosque - Abdul Rashid Gazi - says that he has as many as 2,000 people in there.
YDSTIE: And as I understand it, the goal of these clerics is to create an Islamic government in Islamabad, first of all, and then spread it to the rest of Pakistan, is that correct?
Mr. WALSH: That's right. One of the reasons why the government has been slow to act on this crisis is that it says that it fears that images of the army attacking a religious place - a mosque - and also potentially killing young women, students inside the mosque, could spark violence across the country.
YDSTIE: You mentioned the warning by Pakistan's president, Pervez Musharraf, earlier. What role is he playing in this crisis?
Mr. WALSH: He is very much playing behind-the-scenes role. As I said, he's just made one public comment on the crisis. Right now President Musharraf is holding a high-level meeting with the prime minister, Shaukat Aziz, and other senior Cabinet ministers to discuss the crisis. Possibly the government will try again to negotiate a solution or indeed this could be the moment that marks the final push.
YDSTIE: And of course President Musharraf's government is already under pressure for the firing of a supreme court justice. How corrosive is this situation for Mr. Musharraf's political prospects?
Mr. WALSH: Well, this crisis really is seen as a test of Mr. Musharraf's ability and his will to take on Islamic extremist elements in this country. And over his eight-year rule, there's been an increase in what's termed as Talibanization in the tribal areas along the Afghan border. And what's been happening at the Red Mosque here in Islamabad has really brought that problem to the heart of the capital. So his ability to solve this crisis will be seen as proof of his commitment to the war on terror globally.
Internally, I think President Musharraf has to try and resolve this crisis, and - but he must try and do that in way that has the least amount of bloodshed. The symbols involved are incredibly sensitive here in Pakistan. The mosque, of course, is the central symbol of Islam, and the images of death in any storming of the mosque would be politically disastrous for President Musharraf. So he is trying to avoid that at all cost.
YDSTIE: Declan Walsh of Britain's Guardian newspaper speaking with us from Islamabad. Thanks very much.
Mr. WALSH: My pleasure. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
