S1: It's time for KPBS Midday Edition. Local clergy are putting work behind their faith to protect immigrant rights. I'm Jade Hindman with conversations that keep you informed , inspired , and make you think. An imam , priest and rabbi join us to talk about what their religious texts say about immigration.
S2: There's been understood to be an imperative to welcome and help the immigrant and the stranger.
S1: And what the congregation is called to do in the face of injustice. That's ahead on Midday Edition. Shortly after , immigration agents raided a busy South Park restaurant. In late May , a wide coalition of leaders spoke out , including local faith leaders who opposed the recent raids and ongoing immigration policies , while also speaking out against last week's travel ban , which bars people from 12 countries from entering the United States. Meanwhile , others are fighting to keep houses of worship safe from immigration enforcement. So this hour , we want to talk about the faith leaders and religious communities working to protect the rights of immigrants and refugees , along with the power of interfaith coalitions. Joining me is a wonderful panel of local faith leaders. Imam Taha Hassan is the imam of the Islamic Center of San Diego. Imam Hassan , welcome.
S3: Thank you.
S1: Also , Father Scott Santa Rosa with Our Lady of Guadalupe Parish in Logan Heights. Father , welcome to you. Thank you. And Rabbi Alexis Pierce , member of rabbis for ceasefire and leader of a New Haven for a non Zionist Jewish collective in San Diego. Rabbi , welcome.
S2: So glad to be here.
S1: So glad to have you all here with us. I want to begin with your initial reactions to the wave of immigration policies we're seeing out of the white House. I mean , what do you make of this administration's approach ? Father Santa Rosa , I'll start with you on that one.
S4: Well , I would say it's been really earth shattering , world changing , uh , for our parishioners , who , um , are largely an immigrant population since its beginning. Our Lady of Guadalupe Parish has been an immigrant parish , served immigrants for its entire history of over a hundred years. And on January 20th , people's lives changed because all of a sudden , people were living with the real fear. Um , as soon as houses of worship were declared non not off. Not out of the realm of ice enforcement. I think we knew something really different was taking place , and people did. People all of a sudden considered whether or not they ought to even come to Sunday mass. And that very first Sunday we saw a dip in attendance. So our lives have changed , and you can see the fear on people's faces. And we and all of our homilies , the priests that are there , try to address that in some way just to tell people , we hear you , we see you , we walk with you and this and and that. This is wrong. This is not the image of the kingdom of God that God wants for God's world.
S1:
S2: It's a nightmare and a betrayal of the image of America that brought so many of our American citizens here to this country in recent generations. My grandparents fled violent religious persecution , and it breaks my heart and boggles my mind that Stephen Miller , who is understood to be in many ways the architect of this program , has exactly the same story. He's from a Jewish family , his , in his case , younger. His great grandparents fled the same oppressive persecution that he's now inflicting on immigrant communities in this country. There's a Yiddish word , a shanda. It means a scandal , a disgrace. He's bringing a shanda on the entire Jewish community. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. Imam Hasan.
S3: Well , uh , in addition to echoing , uh , what we just have heard from father and rabbi , it was shocking , but not surprising , as we have heard , uh , the Trump administration , um , since the election campaign , Threatening to take this action. But it was shocking because of the brutality of this action. We did not expect to go this further. Um , abducting people and parents while waiting for their kids from school , or a father going to shop at the grocery store for his family. So it was really shocking. Disappointing because because this is this is this does not really represent , uh , this nation that , um , is built on immigration itself.
S1: Um , father , Santa Rosa , your parish in Logan Heights has joined a lawsuit against the federal government to keep Ice raids out of sensitive locations like houses of worship. What can you tell me about that ? Yeah.
S4: I , um , generally do not resort to lawsuits to get the right thing done , but it felt like the only recourse we really had was to do something as severe as that , if you will. We were given the opportunity to join that lawsuit as one of five plaintiffs , and I'm really glad we did , because it has given us an opportunity to say to our people , really , what is happening is wrong. And and we stand with you , and hopefully this can bring about at least some form of structural change , even though the other six days of the week and 23 hours of that seventh day , we can't protect people , at least at Sunday mass or in our services. People can feel they have a safe place to go , to be with God and to be with community , because that is a human need that we all have to be vulnerable and to do that , do that in the presence of other people and in the presence of God.
S1: Um , Rabbi Pierce , um , you know , there are many houses of worship working to protect immigrants amid the policies we're seeing.
S2: There's been understood to be an imperative to welcome and help the immigrant and the stranger. And in the Jewish community in particular , there's such a long history of being expelled and wandering over so many hundreds of years that the the imperative to help one another settle in. Find work and find a living in a new place has been part of the Jewish community for a long time. There's a very proud history in this country. One of the earliest national organizations created was the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society , which expanded its mission far beyond the Jewish community. So it's understood to be a communal imperative.
S1: Also , I want to talk about last week's travel ban , um , which bars people from 12 countries from entering the US. That includes seven Muslim majority countries in the Middle East and Africa. You've called the ban racist and un-American.
S3: It's immoral and unethical. It is racist because obviously it's targeting people of color. It's targeting , um , uh , black people , brown people. And we have seen a group of white Africans from South Africa landing in our nation and granted refugee status right there at the airport. So what's the difference ? You see , so this is what makes me saying always that this is racist. This ban is racist. It is , um , an American because it goes against the foundations of our nation. Everyone in the world knows , and this is something that we brag about. We have been bragging about it all the time that this nation is a nation of immigrants. We are all immigrants in a way or another. I am an immigrant. You might be the child of an immigrant or the grandchild of an immigrant. So there is no way that we can betray these principles and values of our nation. It is Islamophobic because it targets Muslim majority countries. And this is not the first time we have seen this during the first term of the Trump administration , uh , targeting Muslims. Um , clearly.
S1: Father Santa Rosa , do you have anything to add to that ? I saw you nodding.
S4: I couldn't agree more. Um , I guess I really nod when you say , um , Imam Taha , that was a nation of immigrants , and I'm a grandson of immigrants from Italy. My grandmother came through Ellis Island , my grandfather came through Canada , and some snowy night walked across the border into Washington. So he was an undocumented man for many years. And and he came with the same American dream that so many people come with now. And if given the chance to become American in Parentheses or intrigue us. Um , through documentation. So many people would. And , you know , I believe that all the labor of immigrants really does make this country the great country that it is. It's just it's the story of this country. And yet we are really , uh , we are betraying our very roots.
S2: I'd like to add something. It's immoral , it's unethical , it's racist. It's also duplicitous because the messaging coming out of the white House is we're taking away dangerous criminals. We're stopping an invasion. And so why are they going and taking away hardworking , law abiding fathers and mothers and their children ? There aren't enough criminals , I guess , to fill their quotas. And so they're turning to absolutely anyone , citizen or not , citizen. What matters more is the color of their skin and their tattoos. is apparently so duplicitous as well , telling the people this is to protect them and this is to get rid of criminals. And in fact , it's just depleting the workforce , destroying families and terrorizing people.
S4: His father's day and during the homily I talked about , my father is a civil engineer. He's retired now. And one of the things he used to do with us is sometimes drive us around. And he would point to a bridge or a building and say , I designed that , or I , you know , and it was really great. And you could tell he felt proud. But in a , in a real way , my dad is in those things. Right ? He's and we're in him , too , because the sacrifices he made to do those jobs and and as I was giving this homily , I said , if he's in those in a bridge , surely the architect is in the bridge , and certainly the laborers are in the bridge , and the bridge doesn't discriminate if that laborer has documents or not. And so that's the the truth of the matter is who we are as a nation , as a city of San Diego. It's the labor of these people is in the very infrastructure of this city. It's in the houses that are cleaned in La Jolla and Coronado by undocumented folks. It's in the yards that are mowed by people who don't have documents. And I mean , that's a dignifying thing. Labor signifies people and doesn't discriminate about documents or not. And and so it really does go against our very infrastructure to say that now we're going to pull you out. That does violence to the whole , um , structure of our of who we are as a society.
S1: Coming up , our panel of religious leaders talk about what their faith calls them to do in the face of injustice.
S3: The problem with us as faith leaders , we know how to preach justice. We know how to preach fairness , equality , human dignity. But when it comes to the action , many of us are not present. Are not there.
S1: More when KPBS Midday Edition returns. Welcome back to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. This hour we are discussing the role of faith leaders and religious communities in protecting the rights of immigrants and their response to recent policies out of the Trump administration. I'm speaking with the man , Taha Hassan , with the Islamic Center of San Diego , also Father Scott Santa Rosa with Our Lady of Guadalupe Parish in Logan Heights , and Rabbi Alexis Pierce , member of rabbis for ceasefire and leader of a New Haven for a non Zionist Jewish collective in San Diego. So , Father Santa Rosa. I also want to talk about the atmosphere of fear that is circulating through immigrant communities right now.
S4: And , uh , people are making decisions about , uh , trying to eliminate risky behaviors , risky behaviors , like going to the grocery store. So adults who might be undocumented could have their adult children who are citizens do things like that , go to the grocery store , run errands. They are still the folks with without documents , are still making the decision to go to work , and they're still making the decision to go to church. And that's about it. I was asking a family what they're going to do for Father's Day , and they said , oh , bother , Vamos a la casa. Are we going to go home ? Because that's where we feel safest , and I don't I don't blame him. That's that is what is the reality. So it's just it's it's like all of a sudden we're a town with a dragon , you know , on the outskirts. And every now and then the dragon's going to come through and breathe fire and destroy people. It's like that dragon is ice , and people don't know when it's going to come or where it's going to strike. And and that's the reality that people are living with. It really is almost like it's almost cartoonish and it's in how people are on edge. Um , so , uh , people do find a source of strength in the parish. I mean , the interesting thing is , though , attendance went down initially , attendance went right back up and even higher because I think people were realizing we need each other. But , uh , it's it's really quite , um , terrifying. And the other thing , too , I would say people I think are making some peace internally with , well , what if I am deported ? What would I do ? And they're trying to negotiate that inwardly. I think we all do that when we think when we're facing a fear that might be bigger , the reality of which might be bigger than we are , and they're starting to make those negotiations internally and with their families sadly. Mhm.
S1: I mean , it's essentially telling people that you cannot participate in society essentially. Yeah.
S4: Yeah.
S1: I mean , are you all concerned about how far this could go ? Absolutely.
S4: Um , I think the worst nightmare would be and I didn't think it would happen , honestly , that we would be at Mass on Sunday and all of a sudden ice would come in and storm in. And I just thought , no , that's not going to happen. But then one of Rokita happened , and we saw how really violent that was and how militarized it was. And that's when I said , oh my gosh , this really could happen to us. I mean , we have made some changes. I'm not going to go into detail , but we have made some concrete changes in ways. What would we do , how to keep people safe ? Because I feel like we can't take for granted the fact that , um , there would be enough kind of human respect for what we do inside those doors to prevent something from happening.
S3: Also , how long it's going to be , uh , is it going to be like this for the next four years ? Four years ? You know , is it going to to stop at some time , at some moment ? Uh , so this is , you know , an uncertainty that is affecting the livelihood , the well-being of so many people in our nation.
S1: You know , an interesting thing , too , is that , like , not all faith leaders will agree or , um , feel the same responsibility to the immigrant community that you all do. What would you implore those who disagree with you to think about , Imam.
S3: Just go back to your scripture. Just go back to your scripture. Be honest and tell me in your scripture whether there is anything that prevents you from being active to protect the stranger. I have no doubt that whether in the Bible , in the Torah , in the Quran , there are a lot of texts that we recite , that we preach , that urge us as people of faith to take action when we see the wrongdoing around us , to not only take action , but also to guide others , to bring people together and to protect one another. Um , in in the Quran , which is the Word of God , you know , uh , given to Prophet Muhammad upon him , there is a story of the children of Israel being under the slavery of Pharaoh and then Prophet Moses. Peace be upon him with Prophet Aaron , peace be upon him were sent to liberate the children of Israel from the tyranny of Pharaoh. We almost every single prophet mentioned in the Quran , whether Prophet Abraham or Moses or Jesus or Prophet Muhammad , peace be upon them. All of them were immigrant. All of them. At a certain time in their lives , they had to leave their place because of the persecution , because of the violence , because of the threats. Looking for another place where it is safe for them to practice their faith. So this is a very well known topic in all the scriptures , including the Islamic scripture. And that's why this is this is what inspires me. This is what pushes me always to , to to join all the faith leaders who come together to take action to protect our immigrants.
S2: I'll mention what other story from the Torah , from not the Torah , but the Jewish Scriptures , which is the very well known story of Ruth and Naomi. The book of Ruth. Not religious persecution , but famine drove this family from Judea , where they were residing across the border into Moab , which was in some generations their enemy. But their neighbor. And the boys grew up and married women there. And they settled. And finally , with the husband and the two sons in law dead , the mother in law says , I'm going back home. And Naomi , her daughter in law , not an Israelite , a moabite , says , I'll go with you and roams with her back across the border and treats her with respect and kindness above and beyond anything required of her. And and we're told at the end of the book that she's the three times great grandmother of David who becomes the head of the house of David , the kings of Israel , and the house of the Messiah. And in Christian Scripture , the ancestor of Jesus. So we learn in this story that redemption itself , salvation itself , has its origins in this kind of people caring for people first and thinking about borders. Second.
S3: You know , one thing that I would like to add here is that , and I often say this at rallies and protests where I speak is the problem with us as faith leaders. We know how to preach justice. We know how to preach fairness , equality , human dignity. But when it comes to the action , many of us are not present , are not there. So not only talking the talk about walking the walk , it's very important for my community. And I have heard this from so many Muslim community members here. Very important for my community to see me on the ground , to see me taking the action. So I do what I preach because we are very good in preaching , but many of us are not good in turning that preach into action.
S4: I'm glad you mentioned that. If I could jump in. Absolutely.
S1: Absolutely.
S4: Because I always I try to tell our people the litmus test of a good mass isn't like how clean the chalices are or how ironed the purification are. It's whether what we say and do inside this building , we say and do outside this building with people. And I think that's the great challenge in societies is there's this desire to separate , really faith from action. That I do God's stuff inside that building and outside. I can kind of do whatever I want. You know , it doesn't really matter. Or I wish people , when they came to confession confessed. You know , I didn't go to the protest or I , I didn't I saw a homeless person and I just walked on by and didn't think about them. Instead , it's all this , you know , puritanical morality that we often end up hearing in confessions. So it's just to say , I think the three of us are saying the call really is to put faith in action and make it real for our brothers and sisters who are vulnerable and in most need. And right now , people who are immigrants are vulnerable and in need. And I think it's really imperative that we try to get people to to walk with them.
S1:
S2: And many of our religious bodies have wonderful social justice histories of organizing. And finding friends with other faith groups in the community. There have been many important alliances that have helped , so much so that when one house of worship is attacked , for example , by white supremacists or some attack happens , you hear very often all the neighboring houses of worship saying will help you come here. You can meet , we'll help clean your building. We'll help you , um , we'll help keep you safe in your community. So those things , uh , are wonderful. What do they get wrong ? Well , at the moment , the Jewish community has been fractured and fragmented over the Palestinian question so severely that there are many who can't find themselves comfortable in a synagogue because it's got a flag of Israel up there on the pulpit. And that merger of religious nationalism with their religion is no longer something they can conscience because of the actions of Israel seeming so extremely unjust and frankly , not even in accordance with any Jewish values. And yet the Jewish community has. The organized Jewish community has taken this very hard line and stands with the most right wing organizations like AIPAC , like the ADL in in considering anti-Zionism to be anti-Semitism and anyone pro-Palestinian to be anti-Semitic. And consequently , they haven't been as much a part of the interfaith conversation as they historically always have , because they are reluctant to stand with people who might be considered By some stretch to be anti-Semitic because they don't support Zionism. So that is the thing that's most disturbing to me at the moment within the Jewish culture.
S1: Your mom.
S3: The focus of my community at this moment is to find ways how to protect the immigrants , especially undocumented brothers and sisters who fled violence and seeking refuge in our nation. Um , I'm sure you remember a year , year and a half ago , uh , a lot of asylum seekers showed up at our southern borders. And many of them , thousands of them were admitted to the United States. Um , and I think in addition to South America , many of them were from Africa , uh , many countries in West Africa. And there were Muslims. Many of them were Muslims. So when when they got admitted. Many of them showed up at the Islamic Center of San Diego seeking help to join their sponsors wherever in the , you know , in the East Coast mainly. So we helped them and some of them , they are here in San Diego and they are scared to death. You know , they cannot go and join the prayer in a mosque wherever they are. Here in San Diego , they cannot go shopping. They are afraid to be abducted at any time. So our focus now is to provide safety , to provide help and and any type of assistance to those who are scared at this moment. Father.
S1: Father.
S4: First of all , I want to really tip my hat to both of you , but especially to you , Rabbi , for talking about the complexity of , um , of your faith and being Jewish and trying to , uh , I would say reconcile within yourself your , your own faith and , and how that can be paired with a certain nationalistic tendency in Israel. What a complex situation it is. And and my heart goes out to you and to your brothers and sisters. Um , I think what people what we get right is in the Catholic Church , um , is , I think , a reverence and , uh , a desire to put God first. Um , I see that in people. I mean , the other Jesuits at my parish , we always remark to ourselves how holy the people are , and the goodness of people is incredible. And I mean , they're far holier than we are. Let's just put it put that out there. And I think so that's very moving. And I think people take seriously their desire to , to live a kind of a holy life dedicated to God and what we don't get right , I think , is I think we've internalized the separation of church and state that this , this country , you know , lionize is that there's a separation. And I think we've kind of internalized it , too , so that I can leave what I do inside the church , leave it there and go out and not necessarily try to put it into action. I believe in community organizing. I believe we are supposed to do as much as we can do before we ask God to do what God can do , and it's unfair , and it's not right that we think God is going to kind of swoop in and give us immigration reform every Sunday. We pray for justice and humane immigration reform. And I ask people , how is that going to happen ? Is that going to come from the clouds ? Or who's going to make that happen ? And they always say , finally , we are supposed to make it happen. Yes. So I think that's the thing we need to work on.
S3: One thing that I would like also to add here is the intersectionality of this issue. So we're not talking about. This is a Christian issue or a muslim issue or Jewish issue. We are living in a very , very diverse society. There are no lines or borders between different faith communities. We live together. Whatever brings any benefit to any one of us , all of us , we will share that benefit. If there is anything that might harm any portion of this society , it will harm all of us. So that's why we shouldn't look at this immigration issue as it's a Latino issue. You see ? No it's not. It's an issue of all immigrants coming from all over the world. And I do not differentiate between a brutal raid by Ice abducting Latino and Latino brothers and sisters with them , abducting students from colleges and universities just because they stood up against the genocide in Russia. And many of them are incarcerated. They did not do any crime. They did not commit anything wrong , just standing for the truth and speaking their mind. Uh , pushing back the narrative of , of , uh , you know , the Zionism , then they are incarcerated. So I don't differentiate between , between these two issues. So again , intersectionality of the immigration issue , which requires that all of us , we should work together to fight against this injustice.
S1: When KPBS Midday Edition returns.
S4: One way Jesus puts it is , as the golden rule is to love other. Treat other people as you would like to be treated. And this is not about politics. This is about treating people with dignity and respect.
S1: Finding the humanity in others. We're back right after the break. Welcome back to KPBS midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. This hour , we're discussing reaction from religious communities to recent immigration policies and the power of interfaith dialogue. I'm speaking with Imam Taha Hassan with the Islamic Center of San Diego. Also , Father Scott Santa Rosa with Our Lady of Guadalupe Parish in Logan Heights. And Rabbi Alexis Pierce , member of rabbis for ceasefire and leader of Henny New Haven , a non Zionist Jewish collective in San Diego. So , Father Santa Rosa , Rabbi Pierce brought up religious nationalism , and I want to talk more about the relationship between religion and politics in this country. Trump's second term has really empowered the white Christian nationalist movement. He won the support of about 8 in 10 white evangelical voters in November.
S4: Um , I think that's really what has happened for people is , you know , people will say that he's a God fearing person. So therefore I'm going to vote for him as opposed to looking at where does he stand on the issues they're going to most affect you and your life ? I mean , Latinos voted strongly for Donald Trump much more than last time. So , um , I think it's , uh , there isn't one way to be Catholic or to be Christian. I think , in truth , all of us , and I think the US around the table will admit that we're all always have to be open to growth , to being humbled , to learning and to to conversion , really. And we always , we always we all of us have idols that we put up and we bow to until those idols are destroyed. And I think our lives are a constant process of destroying false idols and getting to the one true God , which I think we're all about all the time. And I think right now , though , this the , this government and the the Trump administration does have a lot of false gods , but I think it's obvious to a lot of people that they are false gods. And , you know , there's no one right way to be an American. And I think that more and more , uh , what you are saying with regards to , you know , arresting those people that don't agree with the Trump administration Policy of how you ought to be in this world , which more and more this administration is , is putting forth. There's one way to be. And , um , our challenge is to purify that and purify out the , uh , the false gods.
S3: Uh , if I may add something to this , um , just recently , a few weeks ago , uh , during the National Day of Prayer , I was invited to join an interfaith , um , uh , group of leaders , uh , at , uh , Methodist Church in , uh , San Carlos to , uh , do a prayer , a multi-faith prayer. And the messages from , from all faith leaders were , were great and actually advocating for the human dignity and praying for our nation and praying for the whole world and peace and justice and all that stuff. On my way back after that prayer , Um , I played a video that came on my YouTube , uh , about a prayer from a pastor that I didn't know. Maybe he's , you know , a known pastor , but his prayer was totally different than the prayers that I have heard that I have witnessed. It's as if two different christianities. You see , his prayer was , you know , inciting that that the Christianity in America is unique. And , you know , so I was so confused , and I'm sure that a lot of people are confused when they see politics harming religion and dividing the religious people. So this is something that I have noticed and talking about politics and religion. This is what people are experiencing. Mhm.
S1: Mhm. Well and I want to dig into that a bit more because Rabbi the value of interfaith Dialogue through conversations like this. And coalition building in general.
S2: That once you really learn about them , it's impossible not to see that everyone is your brother and your sister. When I left pulpit work to go into health care chaplaincy and began to work with people from all kinds of religious backgrounds and people who didn't consider themselves religious , it became so apparent to me , it's something I'd known before , but it became so apparent that if you're dying , your grief process is just the same if you're using Catholic tools or Muslim tools or the tools of some other faith. Um , if your father is ill , you're having the same sorrow and anxiety. No matter what you look like. All of us have to breathe and drink water and make a living , and shelter our families and make friendships and have a life that feels like it has purpose. We have so much more in common than we have separate. And and I make this point partly out of my exposure to Native American culture and and values. By the way , the one community that are not immigrants in this country and the bears mention , um , I remember you were saying there's so much more holy than we are. I remember working in the hospital. This is years ago now , maybe around 2008 , um , when it was Border Patrol rather than Ice , and a patient had been brought in who had fallen from the border wall and broken his back. And here's this man , skinny , older , chained to the bed with handcuffs , accompanied by two big , strong border Patrol men at all times. Like he's going to get up. He can't even walk. Um , they were reluctant , but finally let me come in and try to minister to him a little bit in my very broken Spanish and his very broken English. And I was able to learn that here's a man whose heart is broken , because now that this catastrophe has happened , he can't work. He can't send money to his wife who's on this side of the border , and his children and his parents who are on that side of the border. And how will his children go to school ? And how will anyone know what's happened to him ? And these were his concerns , and it really made me feel how would I ever have the courage to live the life he's living , to face the obstacles that he's facing , and the self-sacrificial power of his willingness to do anything to risk his life , his health. I don't know what became of him , but it opened my eyes to the. The way that the , um , immigration system was destroying. Excellent people who are stuck in desperate circumstances who want only the same things that I want. Mm.
S1: Mm.
S4: And and I think that's , um , That's what we can say to people is , is , uh , this is not about politics. This is about treating people with dignity and respect. The same dignity and respect you would hope to be treated with. Why don't you just be like that with other people ? So imagine you're the one now who doesn't have documents , or you're the one who's vulnerable because of political views. How would you want to be treated ? And I think that's the call.
S1:
S3: I see a lot of harms committed by people who disconnect their political views to their faith conviction. Um , so as Father Scott just just mentioned , um , whatever you preach , whatever you hear your faith leader saying or preaching , try to be that person in the street , on the ground. Because honestly , many of the people who are causing a lot of injustices are church goers , synagogue goers , mosque goers. And I'm sure that all of them , they are hearing beautiful messages , spiritual religious messages in their houses of worship. But when once they get out , once they start dealing with the reality on the ground , there are different people. There is something wrong here. There is something wrong in understanding ourselves as people of faith. And there is something wrong in understanding the message that we are hearing in our houses of worship. So I believe this this is where , you know , the problem is.
S1: Rabbi Pearce , I'll give you the final word here.
S2: You know , we hear a lot about the banality of evil when we think about the Holocaust and the way that people found it normal to be cruel and to , uh , to kill and to hate on the basis of what the government was telling them to do. Uh , but I think there's a banality of goodness that's much more powerful. I think the average person will help you. I think if I got hit by a car on the corner here. There would be 20 people in a minute rushing over to see what they could do for me. I think about Mr. Rogers telling the story of his mother , teaching him to cope with catastrophes by telling him to look for the helpers. There's always going to be people running towards it , trying to protect others. I think that basic human goodness is present in most people and in most of our different communities. And the the things that keep us apart are usually falsehoods. I think knowing one another and building community bonds within our communities and between our communities , focusing on our shared values as Americans and also as people of faith , are the things that will keep us stronger and safer than any amount of hiding under the house.
S1: I've been speaking with Rabbi Alexis Pierce , member of rabbis for ceasefire and leader of Henny New Haven , a non Zionist Jewish collective in San Diego. Rabbi. Thank you.
S2: My pleasure.
S1: Also , Imam Taha Hassan , Imam with the Islamic Center of San Diego. Imam Hassan , thank you.
S3: You're welcome.
S1: Thank you. And father Scott Santa Rosa with Our Lady of Guadalupe Parish in Logan Heights. Father Santa Rosa , thank you.
S4: Thank you. It's been a pleasure.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
