S1: Welcome in San Diego , it's Jade Hindman. Today we are talking about genomics , as one local scientist is researching how migration and history impact the evolution of indigenous people. This is Midday edition , connecting our communities through conversation. Genomics. The study of all of a person's genes is one of the newest and most rapidly evolving fields of science. Many consider it to be the future of medicine , but one local scientist is looking at human genome data and indigenous genetics in particular , to better understand the past and pave the way toward a better , more inclusive future. Lou Fox joins us now. He's a genome scientist and assistant professor of anthropology at UC San Diego , also a co-founder and co-director of the Indigenous Futures Institute. Professor Fox , thanks for joining us.
S2: Thank you so much for having me. Looking forward to the conversation.
S1: Yes , yes. I mean , first , can you explain what genome sequencing is and how it works ? Yes.
S2: Genome sequencing is a technology to understand the genes or gene sequences or mutations. We commonly refer to them as variants that are inherited from your mother and your father. And going back in the entirety of your genealogy , they're really important for understanding our diaspora and migratory history as people , and also our susceptibility or predilection to disease.
S1: So what propelled you to want to study the genetic history of indigenous people ? Yeah.
S2: You know , initially I had one central question , and that had to do with the diaspora of Polynesian people and understanding how we got to some of the most remote places in the world the outdoors , the Rapanui , the Hawaii , the Tahiti. And there are a lot of different lines of evidence that we can use to recapitulate that journey. But. Not often was the genome used to understand that in much higher resolution. So I've always wanted to understand like , could we get this down to the first canoe ? You know , some of the original communities of people that ended up in a place like Hawaii Island or moku , okay. Which is where my genealogy is from. And it turns out you can.
S1: And 95% of genomic studies are based on European ancestry and DNA.
S2: One is this historic , unfortunate exploitation of indigenous people and historically marginalized communities. And there are some really classic examples of this. Henrietta Lacks , for example , using her cells in so many different scientific experiments without consent , the Havasu Pi versus ASU case , where their DNA was used to question their origin story and do some pretty shady genomic science without their consent. And the list goes on and on and on. And back to Tuskegee and all these other terrible things that have been done to historically marginalized communities. Again , key word here without their consent. And so that builds up a resentment against the R-word research. On the other hand , you have nepotism and proximity. So most people who are brought into studies are like , you know , 27 year old medical students and a lot of those kids that have the privilege opportunity to go to medical school. They come from specific backgrounds , and a lot of them are of Western European heritage. So there's kind of this two way street going on.
S1: And you also talked about migration.
S2: All of these things have shaped our genomes over time. We are again a reflection of our migratory history. That's why we have different colored hair and different colored skin and eyes and so on and so forth. And so understanding those subtle differences is really , really important. Things like high elevation adaption in the Himalayas , or the impact of malaria in shaping the immune systems of individuals , and equatorial Africa with sickle cell anemia , or the role of our migratory history as sailors and voyagers in human history , has had a role in shaping our susceptibility to obesity and our protection against type two diabetes in the Pacific.
S1: Tell me more about that. The sailing , the susceptibility to obesity.
S2: So that is leaving Taiwan into the Bismarck Archipelago , into the Bismarck Archipelago , into what we call trans oceanic voyaging practices involve the development of some pretty incredible technologies. Secondly , that journey to some of the most far flung island archipelagos in the world may seem isolated to people who aren't from there. But if you're from a moana community that is a Pacific Islander community , you're way more at home on the water than I think a lot of other people who are extremely uncomfortable around the ocean , around boats. And you're not really familiar with how to use and utilize ecological metadata like bird migration patterns , land finding birds , the celestial sphere itself , watching stars pass overhead , using that calculus to identify which direction you're going , the green glint on the bottom of a cloud that allows you to understand that it's a reflection of a lagoon below. All of these techniques led to our dominance as the greatest voyaging people in human history , but also that history , that that migratory path forward , that original moonshot that has shaped our genomes because we're creating multiple bottlenecks over and over again as we move to identify new , new islands in the Pacific. Additionally , you have the arrival of Europeans and when they come , you have a collapse and reduction of almost 80 to 90% of most indigenous peoples. Because this is the connection between the New World and the Old World. So you have the introduction of diseases like syphilis , smallpox , leprosy , etcetera , and that causes population collapses , or what we refer to as naive soil epidemics that shapes the genomes of contemporary indigenous people today , meaning that interaction , colonialism itself leads to the shaping and reshaping of the immune systems of indigenous people. And these are the types of questions that we prioritize when we're thinking about our communities susceptibility to type two diabetes , because that is a disease that is involved in , you know , the attenuation of inflammation , sensitivity to insulin , and so on and so forth. So our migratory history and understanding that at the highest level possible is extremely important as we develop the next therapies of the future.
S1: And , you know , you've said before that this genomic history in research can also lead to a better future. One major way is it can improve health care for communities that are often overlooked. Tell us more about that. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. You know , we have this thing in Hawaii and it's pretty ubiquitous throughout Polynesia. And it is. We're walking backwards into the into the into the future. And what that means is , is that our diaspora and our relationship with geography has shaped our genomes over time. So in that sense , human beings are not that different from Darwin's finches. And indigenous communities have these this reverence for geography and some of the most remote , sequestered , geographically isolated places in the world. So our diaspora is interesting , but it also shapes our susceptibility to disease. It's often represented as one direction or the other , when in fact it is the same thing. And so understanding the way that geography and our migratory history has shaped our genomes over time is the key variable in creating therapeutics of the future that will have long lasting impacts in terms of personalized and precision medicine.
S1: All right. I also want to talk about your journey a bit more. You're the first Native Hawaiian to get a doctorate in genomic sciences.
S2: We hope that we can prepare the next generation of indigenous data scientists and genome scientists and communities from historically marginalized backgrounds to excel in these spaces , because sometimes the questions that we prioritize are not ours to ask. And it's really important that we have members from our communities answering questions that are directly related to our health disparities. My history as a Hawaiian person really comes down to the achievements of my kupuna , my ancestors , and how we have put a premium on the types of questions that are prioritized in our community. Those guide my scientific practice. I don't just rock up all willy nilly doing helicopter or vampire science. I am very thoughtful about letting our community lead the way in the questions we prioritize.
S1: And so you co-founded the first Indigenous Futures Institute at UCSD. Tell me more about its mission and how it got started.
S2: Yeah , that's a good question. We have all kinds of indigenous communities who come to become educated here and receive education. So our first priority is making comfortable spaces for our indigenous community members and students and students from historically marginalized communities to learn and feel comfortable and absorb information in the quickest , most fun way possible. Okay , so that's the sort of backdrop. Then there is the research focus. So I always tell my students , these tools look different in your hands. The types of questions that you're going to prioritize by co-designing projects with community is going to result in real science that impacts the quality of our communities lives. Nobody really cares if you publish in the New England Journal of Medicine or Nature or Science or so , which I have done before the age of 40. But it's also important to evaluate the impact that your science is having. Is this actually going to deliver some sort of change in people's lives ? And so by recombining our traditional ways of knowing and communing in regenerative practice with new forms of technology and emerging technologies , we we center new technologies on new problems. We have a clear path forward on developing new technologies that will directly promote climate resilience.
S1:
S2: Objects and investigators. Our core leadership extends to individuals like Teresa Campbell , who is a professor here and my co-director and partner in crime , and she's Tongva and Lucio. And her primary focus is on understanding education and educational practices and decolonizing educational practice. At the University of California. We have another faculty member , Sarah Ahrens , who is Inupiaq , and she's from uniquely Alaska , and she's at the Scripps Institute for oceanography. And her work is focused on understanding the history of climate change , using geophysical tools and putting those in the hands of community and in the Arctic. So there's just a range of faculty that are focusing on extraordinary work. And I would just challenge all of our listeners to check out what we're doing , support what we're doing , when we have seminars and talks , and invite indigenous people and indigenous futurists from all over the world to come and talk about their work. Please participate.
S1: Coming up , the conversation continues with Professor Fox as we talk about institutions holding on to the remains of indigenous people through a history of unethical research.
S2: In the end of the day , this is about privileging indigenous peoples access to repatriation and matriarch of their ancestors remains who should be , you know , protected.
S1: You're listening to Kpbs Midday Edition. You're listening to Kpbs Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman , speaking with Kaoru Fox , an assistant professor of anthropology and co-director of the Indigenous Futures Institute at UCSD. So , Professor Fox , there is this long history of unethical scientific practice when it comes to research on native communities. ProPublica found many universities and museums are holding on to the remains of 110,000 people. And according to the San Diego Union Tribune , right here on Kumeyaay land , state audits found UCSD and Sdsu hold thousands of human remains and artifacts.
S2: And I would be remiss if I didn't explain the origin of the Indigenous Futures Institute , which was when I was recruited to work here as an assistant professor in the Department of Anthropology and Global Health. The lab that was given to me from the previous occupant had indigenous means remains that were ordered to be repatriated. And there was a court case that went all the way to the Supreme Court , and it involved a number of investigators from the University of California. These investigators were lost that court case and were ordered to repatriate those remains to the Kumeyaay Nation , our local indigenous community. And so , in the spirit of doing the right thing , we move forward with one of the largest repatriation efforts in the history of the University of California system. We have a law called Nagpra , the Native American Protection and Graves Appreciation Act. And it's really important that we follow along because this is a federal law , and we're talking about people's ancestors and remains. And the cultural importance of that heritage to indigenous people is extremely serious and important , and that law should be adhered to. So in the husk of that colonial relationship and not taking those laws seriously , we forced our university to move forward with one of the largest acts of repatriation and in effect , initiated beginning the genesis of the Indigenous Futures Institute was really a response to that. We then entered in MIT solve and created a whole bunch of counter technologies and deterrent technologies that are focused on safeguarding access to ancient indigenous remains. And it's a pretty sweet origin story , because now I think that UCSD has become way more progressive around these things , and you're seeing ripple effects that are moving into other schools in the U.S. system UCLA , Berkeley , Riverside , Irvine , etcetera. But also those types of practice are impacting the motivation behind museum studies here at the Museum of Us , for example , or even internationally , where you have way more of an attention to detail around these things in Canada , amongst First Nations , you know , found in , in Canada as well. And now I think this is radiating into a number of different indigenous communities all over the world. And in the end of the day , this is about privileging indigenous peoples access to repatriation and maturation of their ancestors remains who should be , you know , protected and reburied or , you know , worked into cultural protocol that speaks to bringing peace to these communities who have been dealing with forms of colonial violence for thousands of years.
S1:
S2: So empirical questions like , how long ago was it that this person may have lived ? What was their diet ? Can we recapitulate that from existing information around them ? Now you have this just explosion in interest around ancient DNA and ancient genomics or paleo genomics , and what we can learn about histories through using many of those methods. But I think it's really important that we look at the history of this field , and we look in the mirror and we say there is no separating this type of research from its eugenic origin. There is no separating the way that we. Bias based on hierarchical values that exist. Who is doing the naming and creating variables around this data ? Where is it being stored ? Who is having access to it ? What ? At what level are we being transparent about the provenance or provenance of many of these remains , and how were they acquired in the first place , where they acquired through violent colonial means ? Guarantee you can guarantee that they were. So when we start to look at the power imbalances that exist and the why , many communities ancestors are locked away in cold steel drawers , you know , Fedex boxes and freezers all across America. We have to dig way deeper into the box score of why and what the origin is before we prioritize any single scientific question , it should be co-designed in partnership with lineal descendants of those ancestral remains. And only in that situation is it okay to move forward with those types of experiments. And I think that is the lesson that UCSD is learning.
S1:
S2: And I'll give you an example that's really lovely. That was in science magazine earlier this year from Yvette running Horse Calling and what she knew because her grandmama told her that Lakota people have been domesticating and communing with horses in the Great Plains of the United States of America , of Turtle Island , well before it was the United States of America. And so colonizers brought over this narrative that horses were brought to the Americas by Europeans , and that that indigenous people didn't have a relationship with those horses until they were brought over. Now , what Yvette actually proved , and this is on the cover of science magazine , and it's a really beautiful cover , I should say , is that that is not true. And the way she determined this was by using ancient genomic techniques to understand the impact of domestication on different horse breeds , and showing that Lakota people have had a relationship with horses. They have been horse people for thousands of years before any white person ever stepped foot. In Turtle Island. Now that is a way for us to rewrite and repatriate our history. But that is basically like indigenous people using modern methods to prove to people what we already told you to be true. And if you think that's a good use of our time and energy , maybe it is , and maybe it's an intermediary position that we find ourselves in because we're continuously having to do that over and over and over again. But we have other priorities in our communities , right ? Like upholding our culture , upholding our values re revitalizing our cultural practices , our language , our dances , our historical relationships with place. And I think that our priority should be on the health of our people and the health of our land and the health of our planet's oceans. So you tell me whether you think that's a good use of that technology.
S1: Right , right , exactly. I think what you just mentioned should be first and foremost. So November is American Indian Heritage month.
S2: I would say first and foremost , I'm Kanaka , native Hawaiian from the Big Island of Hawaii , and we are not Native American. We share the similarity of colonialism and even that is like off brand and we share the aftermath and hangover of that. But we are not Native American. We are not American. We are Hawaiian. And. I think that it's really important to recognize the First Nations and first people that were here in what is now called the United States of America. Acknowledge that they have incredible knowledge systems , acknowledge that they have been communing with this land and these oceans for thousands and tens of thousands of years. And we should do that every single day , not just one month out of the year , because without displacing many of those communities into reservations , into horrible circumstances. You wouldn't have the home you live in today.
S1: To your earlier point about sort of trying to change narratives and misconceptions about indigenous communities among non native peoples. It is.
S2: And as the millennials say , I'm going to unpack that. And I think one of the most important things that we have going on here is not relishing indigenous people and assuming that they're barefoot and helpless and like some sort of representation of the past. And indigenous futurism is a really important concept. Not just now , in this month , but for the rest of the future , of the entirety of of how we kind of move and negotiate space and time and resources. And we need to move away from prioritizing every single thing around linear exponential growth and profit , and towards circular systems and balance systems and projecting into the future and saying , does this ? Is this a good decision ? What is going to be the impact of this in ten generations ? How is this going to promote balance and harmony ? Why are we so obsessed with human exceptionalism and putting human beings on a pedestal that is hierarchically above the rest of this planet ? Those are the real decisions that everybody needs to think about. Look deeply in the mirror and ask yourself those questions.
S1: I have been speaking with Caillou Fox , an assistant professor of anthropology and director of the Indigenous Futures Institute at UC San Diego. Thanks so much for joining us and for your insight. Caillou.
S2: Thank you guys so much. Have a lovely month.
