MADELEINE BRAND, host:
The same day we're talking about North Korea's action and what the U.N. should do about it, a South Korean was nominated to be the next U.N. secretary general. The foreign minister for South Korea, Ban Ki Moon, says one of his first acts will be to visit North Korea when he takes over January 1st. That is something Kofi Annan never did during his 10 year term as U.N. chief.
Wendy Sherman, President Clinton's senior adviser on North Korea, is here to talk about Ban and what he might do about North Korea.
And Ambassador Sherman, welcome to the program.
Ms. WENDY SHERMAN (Former Adviser to President Clinton): Good to be with you.
BRAND: Well, first of all, is it more than coincidence that we have this alleged nuclear test by North Korea the very same day as Ban is nominated to head the U.N.?
Ms. SHERMAN: I don't think it's entirely coincidental. I think that Kim Jong Il had many reasons to do it when he did. Ban Ki Moon being nominated to be secretary general was certainly one of them. I think, in addition, it is the anniversary of his being named chair of the Korean Workers Party. It is also our Columbus Day. It is also a week where he knows there's discussions going on about Iran and sanctions against Iran. And so I think Kim Jong-Il thought it was perfectly timed.
BRAND: Perfectly timed. Well, let's talk about Ban. And he says that one of his first acts will be to visit North Korea. Will he be welcomed there? Will he actually be able to go?
Ms. SHERMAN: I think that remains to be seen. He certainly knows North Korea. He has met with them, talked with them, been part of the negotiations in diplomacy. He is a career diplomat and very skilled diplomat. He, however, will no longer be foreign minister of South Korea. He will be the secretary general, and that may improve his chances of going, because Kim Jong-Il believes that only leaders can make decisions, and Ban Ki Moon will now have a higher level position. But at the same time, at the end of the day, what Kim Jong-Il wants is not a discussion with all the nations of the world; he wants a discussion with the United States of America, the last remaining superpower.
BRAND: What specifically does Kim Jong Il want from the United States?
Ms. SHERMAN: Kim Jong Il wants regime security. He doesn't want to be Iraq. He doesn't want to be Serbia. He doesn't want to fall apart like the former Soviet Union, or as Ceausescu did as the fall in Romania. He wants to continue to rule his country. And he thinks that the United States and its military power is the only obstacle to that security. That's why he wants to deal with us.
BRAND: You've met Kim Jong Il.
Ms. SHERMAN: I have, indeed.
BRAND: What is he like?
Ms. SHERMAN: I was privileged to join Secretary of State Madeleine Albright on her star trip to North Korea, and we sat across the table from him and then at social events, such as they were. She sat on one side and I sat on the other. He is a very smart man. He is supremely self-confident, as you would expect an authoritarian leader to be. He can have a perfectly linear conversation. He is knowledgeable about the issues. But he does not have a democracy, and so he gets to make the final decisions. And sometimes he has a hard time understanding how democracies work, what those checks and balances are about, and doesn't understand why leaders can't just come to the decisions they need to come to.
BRAND: One more thing about Ban Ki Moon. A South Korean going to head the United Nations beginning January 1st. You say North Korea wants to talk one-on-one with the United States. What role can Ban Ki Moon play in this? Does he have leverage, or is he simply second string, if you will, in the eyes of North Korea to the United States?
Ms. SHERMAN: Well, even if he might be seen as second string, he does bring credibility to North Korea by having the secretary general of the United Nations visit. It also may be a counterweight that the United States may or may not appreciate. The Bush administrations has not wanted to deal with North Korea. They've set down some conditions for engagement. For some period of time, at the beginning of the Bush administration, the president wouldn't even allow any direct talks within the six-party framework.
Finally he allowed Ambassador Christopher Hill - who's a very able negotiator - to talk directly with North Korea in the context of the six-party talks. But he didn't have anything in his pocket. He didn't have any tools with which to negotiate.
So although I think Ban can play a useful role here - as a channel - and to give North Korea some of the dignity that it wants and represent the world community, at the end of the day, I think he's probably a useful channel, but it will still come back to the United States.
BRAND: Wendy Sherman is former President Clinton's senior adviser on North Korea.
Wendy Sherman, thanks for joining us.
Ms. SHERMAN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
