La Jolla Looks For Next Steps To Address Odor Issues

THIS IS KPBS MIDDAY EDITION. I'M MAUREEN CAVANAUGH. IT'S AN ISSUE THAT LINGERS IN THE WAY UP. LIKE A BAD ODOR. THE UNPLEASANT SMELL OF -- LEFT BY FELINES AND BIRDS AT LA JOLLA COVE IS ONCE AGAIN IN THE NEWS NOW THAT A JUDGE HAS DECIDED THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO IS NOT ON THE HOOK TO PAY FOR SOLUTION. LA JOLLA TOWN COUNCIL WILL HOLD A HEARING TOMORROW ON THE NEXT STEPS IN THE ONGOING BATTLE AGAINST THE SMELL LEFT BY ACCUMULATED ANIMAL POOP. THE FACT THAT THE EXCLUSIVE SAN DIEGO NEIGHBORHOOD IS DEALING WITH SUCH A SMELLY PROBLEM HAS FUELED LIGHTHEARTED HEADLINES FOR YEARS. BUT IT'S NO LAUGHING MATTER TO RESIDENTS AND ESPECIALLY BUSINESS OWNERS WHO NOW SAY THEY WILL APPEAL THE JUDGE'S LATEST RULING. JOINING ME TO DISCUSS WHAT COMES NEXT IS STEVE HASKINS, PRESIDENT OF THE LA JOLLA TOWN COUNCIL. WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM. THANK YOU. AND NORM BLUMENTHAL AN ATTORNEY REPRESENTING BUSINESS OWNERS IN LA JOLLA WHO SUED THE CITY OVER THE CENTURIES AGO. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. GLAD TO BE HERE. SEAT, REMIND US HOW LONG THIS BAD ODOR HAS BEEN IN THE AIR IN LA JOLLA ? OF COURSE, THE WHOLE CITY -- ALL THE CITIES ALONG THE COAST HAVE ORDERS FROM TIME TO TIME BUT SPECIFICALLY THE BURDEN SEA LION ODOR IS PROBABLY FOUR OR FIVE YEARS NOW. FOR PEOPLE THAT NOT BEEN OUT TO THE COVE LANE, CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE SCENE THERE WITH THE SEA LIONS AND THE BIRDS? IS THE AREA HEAVILY POPULATED WITH THEM ? VERY HEAVILY POPULATED. IN FACT, I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN HOLY -- LA JOLLA AND I'VE NEVER SEEN GROUPS OF SEA LIONS BASKING ON THE ACTUAL BEACH AT THE WHEEL COLD IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY. THE ROCKS ON THE EITHER SIDE OF THE COVE ARE COVERED WITH SEA LIONS OF ALL SIZES AND THE BIRDS CONGREGATE FURTHER TO THE EAST COVERING THOSE ROCKS. AND WHERE IS MOST OF THE SMELL COMING FROM? IS IT THE ROCKS ? THAT IS GOOD QUESTION. I THINK MOST EXPERTS WOULD SAY THAT PROBABLY MOST OF THE SMELL IS CAUSED BY THE BIRDS AND NOT THE SEA LIONS. HOWEVER, THERE WAS A LARGE BLUE OF ANCHOVIES THAT THE FELINES WERE EATING AND FEASTING ON AN APPARENTLY THAT INCREASED THE STENCH QUITE A LOT. AND IT WAS MOSTLY FROM THE ROCKY AREAS TO THE EAST OF THE COVE. HOW PUNGENT. YOU TOLD US IT IS INCREASINGLY PUNGENT AT THIS POINT, DOES IT COME AND GO? THE ODOR ? YES IT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH THE DIRECTION OF THE WIND. UNFORTUNATELY, WITH -- THE PREVAILING WINDS IN THAT AREA OF LA JOLLA BLOW RIGHT OVER THE COVE AND UP TOWARDS PROSPECT STREET WHERE MOST RESTAURANTS ARE LOCATED. AND HOW IS IT AFFECTED BUSINESS ? VERY MUCH. I HAVE FRIENDS WHO OWNED RESTAURANTS A PROSPECT AND THEY SAID THAT IT HAS BEEN A HUGE PROBLEM FOR THEM, ESPECIALLY IN WARM MONTHS TO KEEP CUSTOMERS, ESPECIALLY IN THE OUTDOOR RESTAURANTS, CUSTOMERS WILL COME IN AND TAKE A WHIFF OF THE SMELL, AND THEY WILL LEAVE. IMMEDIATELY. AND JUST SO WE CAN COMPLETE THIS BASIC ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON AT LA JOLLA COVE, THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF THINGS DONE TO TRY TO CLEAN UP THE SMELL CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THAT ? PROBABLY THE FIRST THING THAT MADE SOME SENSE WAS TO USE A SPECIAL KIND OF NON-TOXIC CHEMICAL TO COUNTERACT THE EFFECT OF THE SMELL. THERE WAS CLEANING THE ROCKS OF THE 10 FROM THE BIRDS, THERE WAS THE INSTALLATION OF THE GATE AND OFFENSE -- HAD PREVENTED PEOPLE FROM WALKING DOWN. THE IDEA WAS THAT IF THIS GATE WAS THE STALL, HUMANS WOULD SCARCELY LINES AWAY. BUT FELINES ARE NOT SCARED OF PEOPLE. THEY ARE HABITUATED TO PEOPLE. AS THE SCENE BY THE SEA LIONS THAT ARE SEE THAT SITTING ON THE COVE BEACH AND WHILE PEOPLE TAKE THEIR PICTURE IN FRONT OF THEM, THESE FELINES DO NOT MOVE ONE MUSCLE, NO MATTER HOW MANY PEOPLE STANDING EVEN WITHIN A FEW FEET OF THEM. AND THAT SOLUTION THAT WAS PUT ON THE ROCKS BUT THAT WAS AROUND IN 2013? I BELIEVE THAT IS WHEN IT STARTED. IT IS STILL A POSSIBLE SOLUTION OR PARTIAL SOLUTION. OKAY. LET ME BRING IN NORM BLUMENTHAL'S TO THE CONVERSATION. YOU REPRESENT A GROUP CITIZENS FOR ODOR ABATEMENT. USE SUED THE CITY OVER THE SMELL OF THE COVE. WHAT YOUR CLIENTS SAY ABOUT HOW THE SMELL IS IMPACTING BUSINESSES ? IT'S ADVERSELY IMPACTING BUSINESSES. AS YOU KNOW, PEOPLE USE YELP AND NOW WE ARE NOTED, LA JOLLA THE MOST BEAUTIFUL CITY IN AMERICA THAT STINKS. AND THAT IS NOT A VERY GOOD REPUTATION. NOT FOR LA JOLLA OR SAN DIEGO. TOURISM IS THE SECOND-LARGEST PAYCHECK IN SAN DIEGO AND TOURISM SUPPORTS A LOT OF JOBS IN SAN DIEGO. ACROSS THE BOARD, TO THE EXTENT THAT TOURISTS GO UP TO OF THE PLACES, JOBS WILL BE IMPACTED, AND REVENUES WILL BE IMPACTED. SO IT IS A VERY IMPORTANT -- IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT THE CITY TAKES ACTION CONSISTENT WITH THE MAYOR FILNER'S DIRECTIVE OF MAY 22 OF MAY 22, 2013, TO GET RID OF THE ODOR FROM THE ANIMAL WASTE AT THE COVE. IS THAT THE ARGUMENT THAT THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO SHOULD PAY TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM? SAID THAT IT IS GOING TO BE IMPACTING TOURISM FOR THE CITY ? WELL, I THINK THE PAYMENT ISSUE IS THE TAIL WAGGING THE DOG. OBVIOUSLY, THE MERCHANTS WOULD BE -- I CAN TELL YOU TO PAY FOR INTAKE CARE OF THE SMELL AS A GROUP I'M A WILLING, BUT THEY CANNOT. THE MARINE MAMMAL PROTECTION ACT GIVES THE CITY EXCLUSIVE JURISDICTION OVER THE ROCKS AND NO ONE OTHER THAN THE CITY CAN TAKE ACTION, SO THAT IS A CATCH 22 TO STATE THE ARGUMENT AND THE FACT THAT WE'RE TRY TO GET THE CITY TO PAY. THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE OF PAYMENT. THIS IS AN ISSUE OF PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY IF YOU LOOK AT MAYOR FILNER'S FINDINGS, AND I QUOTE HIM, HE SAYS, THIS WAS IN MAY 22, 2013, IT HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION, I HAVE PERSONALLY OBSERVED THAT THE DANGERS ACCUMULATION OF ANIMAL WASTE HAS DEVELOPED ON THE ROCKS AND IN THE AREAS SURROUNDING LA JOLLA COVE. THOSE WHO WORK AND LIVE IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO THE COVE COMPLAIN OF SEVERE HEADACHES AND NAUSEA. THE POWERFUL SMELL OFTEN WAFTS OVER THE ENTIRE VILLAGE COMMERCIAL BUSINESS -- DISTRICT. HE GOES ON TO SAY I HEREBY ISSUE THE FOLLOWING EMERGENCY FINDINGS. IT IS NECESSARY FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY AND WELFARE TO CLEAN UP AND REMOVE THE ANIMAL WASTE AT LA JOLLA COVE. THESE ACT ARE ENTIRELY NECESSARY TO PROTECT HUMAN HEALTH AND WELFARE. THE ACT OF CLEANING UP AND REMOVING THE ANIMAL WASTE IS EXEMPT FROM THE MARINE MAMMAL PROTECTION ACT OF 1972. SO THIS IS OUR MAYOR IN 2013 MAKING THIS ORDER, AND HER RESPONSE TO THAT, THE CITY DID AND CONTINUES TO SPRAY FOR THE REMOVAL OF THE ODOR CAUSED BY THE BIRDS. BUT WHAT HAS REMAINED AND WHAT IS CONSISTENTLY CAUSING THE PROBLEM NOW IS THE POOP FROM THE FELINES. ALL WE ARE -- FROM THE SEA LIONS. WHAT WE'RE ASKING, THE DIRECTIVE WAS DIRECTED TO THE PARKS AND RECREATION. IT IS TO SCOOP THE POOP. HAVE A COUPLE PEOPLE COME DOWN EACH DAY FROM PARKS AND REC JUST LIKE THEY DON'T -- GO TO THE OTHER PARKS IN SAN DIEGO, WITH A COUPLE SHOVELS. AS SCOOP THE POOP. YOU ALSO ASKED IN THIS LAWSUIT, NORM, THAT THE CITY ENTER INTO A CONTRACT WITH AN ANIMAL BEHAVIOR EXPERT TO WORK TO CHANGE THE HABITS OF THE FELINES SO THAT -- FELINES SO THEY WILL LEAVE THEIR DROPPINGS SOMEWHERE ELSE. JUDGE TIMOTHY TAYLOR IN HIS RULING WAS DISMISSIVE OF THE REQUEST. I'M WONDERING IN RETROSPECT, DO YOU SEE THAT AS A REALISTIC PROPOSAL ? THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON AND NEGOTIATING WITH THE CITY FORCED QUITE SOME TIME. THERE'S A GROUP IN FLORIDA THAT HAVE REPRESENTATIVES IN SAN DIEGO THAT ARE BEHAVIORAL MODIFICATION EXPERTS FOR MARINE MAMMALS. AND I LIKE TO CALL THEM THE PIED PIPER OF PINNIPEDS. THEY HAD A MEETING WITH THE CITY AND I WAS PRESENT WHERE IT WAS DISCUSSED AND THE CITY WAS ON BOARD AND I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN -- THEY HAVE CONSIDERED THIS AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO THE SITUATION WHICH IS CHANGING THE BEHAVIOR OF THE SEA LION TO CONVINCE THEM TO MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE. IN THE MEANTIME, THAT IS STILL AN OPTION BUT THAT IS AN OPTION THAT THE CITY HAS TO CHOOSE. AND SO AT THAT POINT IN TIME, YOU HAVE TO LOOK BACK AND SAY, OKAY, THE CITY MAY NOT WANT TO DO THIS AND THIS IS WHAT THE JUDGE FOUND IT AND WE FOUND -- UNDERSTAND THAT PART OF THE DECISION. THE DECISION DID NOT ADDRESS THE MAYOR FILNER'S DIRECTIVE, THAT WHETHER THEY CHOOSE THE MARINE MAMMAL BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION EXPERTS OR THEY CHOOSE TO SCOOP THE POOP. THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING NOT BECAUSE WE ARE ASKING IT, BUT BECAUSE THE MAYOR OF THE CITY HAS ALREADY ORDERED A. STEVE, YOU HAVE BEEN HEARING THIS, YOU HAD ABOUT THE LAWSUIT AND THE JUDGE'S RULING, WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON ALL THAT ? WELL, I WAS NOT INVOLVED IN THAT SUIT. I'M ATTORNEY, BUT I DID FOLLOW IT JUST AS EVERYONE ELSE DID IN THE MEDIA. I THINK WHERE WE ARE NOW IS SOMEWHERE FURTHER THAN JUST THE SMELL. AND I WOULD LIKE TO INTERJECT THIS BECAUSE I THINK IT MAY CHANGE THE SITUATION. AND THAT IS THE FELINES ARE NOW CONGREGATING ON THE BEACH ITSELF. SO, IF WE ARE TO ACCEPT THAT FELINES WILL CONGREGATE ON THE BEACH, -- THE SEA LIONS WILL CONGREGATE ON THE BEACH ITSELF AS THEY PLEASE WE WILL NEED TO HAVE INTERACTION WHERE SOMEONE WILL BE HURT OR THE SEA LIONS NEED TO BE ENCOURAGED TO LEAVE THE BEACH. IF IT'S GOING TO BE BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION -- MEDICATION TO REMOVE THE SEA LIONS FROM THE COVE WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HAVE THEM BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION BEING REMOVED FROM THE ROCKS WHICH ARE IMPACTING LOCAL BUSINESSES WITH THE SMELL. I REALIZE THIS IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ISSUE THAN THE SEALS. THERE ARE SIMILARITIES AND THAT THE SPECIES ARE PROTECTED BY THE MARINE -- FEDERAL MARINE MAMMAL UNDER FEDERAL PROTECTION AND THEY ARE SEEMS TO BE AN ONGOING DILEMMA AS TO WHAT IT IS THAT LA JOLLA CAN DO TO MODIFY ANY BEHAVIOR BY THESE MARINE MAMMALS. THERE IS PRECEDENT FOR REMOVAL OF SEA LIONS. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT SEALS, BUT SEE -- BUT SEA LIONS. IT'S BEEN DONE UP NORTH. SEA LIONS THAT WERE EATING SALMON THAT WERE ENDANGERED. SEALS DO NOT MOVE VERY WELL. THEY DO NOT HAVE THE SAME FLIPPERS AND THEY CANNOT CLIMB UP HIGH ON ROCKS THE WAY SEA LIONS CAN. ALSO, SEALS GENERALLY HAUL OUT BEACHES CLOSE TO THE WATER THAT WHEN THE TIDE COMES IN IT WASHES AWAY THE DROPPINGS. THAT IS THE REASON WHY EVEN THOUGH I HAVE CONTACTED VARIOUS PEOPLE WHO ARE IN SUPPORT OF PROTECTING THE SEALS, THAT THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN COMING TO OUR HEARING TOMORROW AND THEY ARE NOT CONCERNED WITH THE FATE OF THE SEA LIONS . SO IT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE BECAUSE IT HAS TO DO -- MORE IMPACT ON THE CITY ITSELF. THE SEA LIONS ARE ABLE TO TRAVEL LONG DISTANCES BECAUSE OF THEIR BODY SHAPE. AND ALSO SEA LIONS ARE NOT AFRAID OF PEOPLE. THEY ARE VERY QUICKLY HABITUATED TO ALL SORTS OF THINGS, NOISE, PEOPLE WALKING BY THEM, BEING SPRAYED, AND THIS MAKES IT MUCH MORE COMPLEX ISSUE AT THE COVE THAN AT THE CHILDREN'S POOL. NORM, AS STEVE ALLUDED TO A MINUTE AGO, A CITY SPOKESMAN TOLD US THAT SAN DIEGO HAS HIRED A MARINE MAMMAL EXPERT TO STUDY THE SEA LIONS TO GATHER DATA THAT WILL LEAD TO ALTERNATIVE SOLUTIONS TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM, THE DROPPINGS AND APPARENTLY THE MIGRATION OF THE SEA LIONS ONTO THE BEACH AT THE COVE. HAS THE CITY TOLD YOUR CLIENTS THAT AND WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THAT ? THE EXPERTS HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR OVER A YEAR THAT I KNOW OF AND HE MAY BE AROUND LONGER. THE ISSUE AS STEVE POINTS OUT, LET ME TRY TO EXPLAIN IT IN A LEGAL CONTEXT. THE CITY CANNOT DEAL WITH MARINE MAMMALS UNDER THE MARINE MAMMAL PROTECTION ACT UNLESS THEY CAUSE A NUISANCE. THERE IS A SUBSECTION H OF IT. AND IF THEY CAUSE A NUISANCE, THEY ARE ENTITLED, THE CITY ONLY, NOT ANY OTHER CITIZEN, TO TAKE ACTION BUT IT MUST BE NONLETHAL ACTION TO ABATE THE NUISANCE. THE SEALS, I WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF A LAWSUIT IN FAVOR OF THE SEALS POSITION. THE SEALS ARE NOT A NUISANCE. AS STEVE POINTS OUT, THEIR FECAL MATTER IS BOSTON, IT CAN ONLY GO TO THE STAND AND THEY DO NOT CAUSE ODOR OR NUISANCE. THE SEA LIONS ON THE OTHER HAND, THE ODOR COMING FROM THEIR POOP IS A NUISANCE. TO THE EXTENT THAT THE CITY CAN ABATE THE NUISANCE WITHOUT REMOVING THE SEA LIONS, THEY ARE ENTITLED TO DO THAT TO THE EXTENT THAT THE ORGANIZATIONS, LA JOLLA TOWN COUNCIL, WHAT ADDITIONAL ACTION, I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF IT TO HAVE -- WE ARE THE ONES THAT FOUND THE BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION EXPERT FOR MARINE MAMMALS FOR THEM TO GO IN OTHER PLACES. BUT IN THE MEANTIME, AT A MINIMUM, THE CITY NEEDS TO AT LEAST TAKE SOME AFFIRMATIVE STEPS TO SEND OUT PEOPLE FROM PARKS AND REC'S WITH SHOVELS TO AT A MINIMUM, AT LEAST, GET RID OF THE POOP FROM THE SEA LIONS ON A DAILY BASIS. UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE MARINE MAMMAL EXPERTS COME UP WITH AN ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION, IF ANY, AT LEAST THE ODOR WILL BE ABATED. THIS IS A POTENTIAL HEALTH HAZARD TO PEOPLE LIVING IN THEIR -- IS NOT ONLY AN ECONOMIC HAZARD. THE FACT THAT THE CITY CAN SIT IDLY BY BY MAYOR FOR ALMOST 2 YEARS, TO ME, IN THIS -- INEXPLICABLE THAT THE MAYOR AND OUR COUNSEL WOMAN HAVE NOT COME OUT. WHERE ARE THEY ON THIS MATTER? WHY AREN'T THEY ON THIS PHONE CALL? WHY AREN'T THEY ADDRESSING THE CONCERNS OF THE CITIZENS ? THAT'S MY LAST QUESTION TO STEVE. THAT IS, WHAT CAN PEOPLE EXPECT AT TOMORROW'S TOWN COUNCIL MEETING? ARE YOU EXPECTING TO HAVE A CITY LEADER THERE? ARE YOU EXPECTING -- WHAT KIND OF DEBATE ARE YOU EXPECTING ON THE ISSUE, STEVE ? AS FAR AS CITY LEADERS BEING THERE, I THINK THE WHEN THERE IS A PENDING LITIGATION -- LITIGATION, THEY DON'T WANT TO COMMENT. I DON'T THINK WE'LL HAVE ANY OFFICIALS FROM THE CITY THERE TO SPEAK ON THE ISSUE OF SEA LIONS. I AM INTERESTED IN THE WAY THAT THE BUILDUP TO THIS HEARING HAS OCCURRED. IN THAT I, AGAIN, HAVE NOT HAD ANYBODY, THEN SAY THEY OBJECT TO WHAT MR. BLUMENTHAL IS SUGGESTING AND THAT IS THAT PARK AND REC STAFF GO ON THE DAILY BASIS AND SCOOP UP THE DROPPINGS. IF THERE IS SOME OPPOSITION TO THAT, MAYBE WE WILL HEAR TOMORROW EVENING, IF NOT, IT SEEMS LIKE THAT IS A PRETTY SIMPLE SOLUTION IN THE INTERIM UNTIL BEHAVIORISTS CAN FIGURE OUT THE PERMANENT SOLUTION. WHAT TIME IS THE MEETING ? 5 PM AT MEMORIAL RECREATION CENTER, 615 PROSPECT ST. THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH. I'VE BEEN SPEAKING WITH STEVE HASKINS, PRESIDENT OF THE LA JOLLA TOWN COUNCIL AND OTHER -- ATTORNEY NORM BLUMENTHAL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.