Law enforcement leaders announce new rules for police shooting probes
S1: Our changes to how law enforcement agencies investigate themselves. Transparent enough.
S2: We can't be placated with these superficial changes that look good on paper.
S1: I'm Jade Hindman with Maureen CAVANAUGH. This is KPBS Midday Edition. Plans to connect the trolley to the San Diego International Airport.
S2: The need to connect this is just sort of an obvious step in the building out of our transportation infrastructure , and it helps to strengthen our overall public transit network by adding one of the most important destinations.
S1: The latest on booster shots and their effectiveness. Plus , a preview of the La Hoya Playhouse's Without Walls Festival. That's ahead on Midday Edition. County law enforcement leaders yesterday announced new guidelines that change the way fatal officer involved shootings and in-custody deaths would be investigated under the new agreement. The San Diego Police Department will now investigate incidents involving San Diego County sheriff's deputies or officers from other local agencies. In turn , the sheriff's department will now oversee investigations of fatal shootings by police officers. Here's San Diego Police Chief David Maslin.
S2: All of these measures are in place for one important reason to truly strengthen the relationship with the people we serve. We must meet them at a place of trust and understanding.
S1: And while law enforcement leaders have touted the shift as a move towards more independent oversight , some advocates of police reform worry that the changes will not go far enough to ensure needed transparency. Joining me is Yusef Miller of the North County Equity and Justice Coalition. Yousef , welcome.
S2: Thank you.
S2: If we look at the reports that have been coming out from law enforcement , the trust has been broken for decades. The reports are now just catching up with explaining why people of color don't trust law enforcement. For example , the sheriff's department has a report out that is about its stop data on people of color , and it reports that people of color are stopped multiple times more than our white brothers or sisters. The same type of report was done on the police department. Another report has been done in custody deaths. So our trust has always been eroded and there's no way to fix it by allowing officers to investigate other officers.
S2: What we've been asking for is for a non law enforcement involved civilian investigative body. And with that , we believe it could be a non partial , non-biased report on how the incident occurred and the reasons why , if you'll allow officers to do it , whether they're sheriffs or CPD. Either way , you're getting a law enforcement involved view on it and it can be biased by nature. So I think it's a conflict of interest to have one agency review , another agency.
S2: I think we've been asking for and demanding for decades for this type of change , and they can't avoid it any longer. And they're trying to give us something maybe to just pacify the community. But we are in tone. We're listening , we're watching , we're reading. We understand what's going on and we understand what. It doesn't go far enough. We can't be placated with the superficial changes that look good on paper. We need something substantial because our communities are dying. So we need someone outside of law enforcement to look into law enforcement , possible misgivings. So this is not going to help and it's just window dressing.
S1: A new state law assembly bill 1506 , which passed in 2020 , now requires the California attorney general's office to investigate officers who shoot unarmed suspects and another bill currently before the state legislature assembly Bill 594 would prevent law enforcement agencies from investigating their own officers who shoot people.
S2: 15 06i think is a good direction because the attorney general is the top cop of the state. And when they can get involved in the failures of local law enforcement , then that has an outside entity that can come in and oversight from the state level , just like what happened in San Diego County jail deaths when we had the state audit on jail deaths and the same thing with 594 officer on officer reviews are going to only turn out one way and that's the way that the community expects and exoneration of officers. So I think that this is an attempt to say we're doing something and this should be good enough , but it's really more of the same. Old thing is just dressed differently.
S2: I would leave that up to the research and the data on who's who's great at that. But what I will say is that they should be civilian most. Non law enforcement. I mean , there's so many people who are retired law enforcement officers who seem to fit the bill because now they're in civilian clothes or they've been working with law enforcement for 40 years and now they seem to fit the bill. We want true separation between law enforcement and this investigative body. I'm not saying that we can't have any association with law enforcement. Let's say your brother or maybe your cousin is law enforcement. But we need to have a true separation between law enforcement and this investigation.
S2: The particular procedure needs to have that explained. Once that's explained. They need to go back to the body itself. So , of course , there's some historic data. Sometimes there is some cultural data that they need to understand and that helps them process the end result. But after that is understood , they need to back away and allow this entity to do its job.
S2: We have a lot more work to do. We have a lot of work to do on the culture of policing. We have a lot to do on the protection of rogue officers. We have a lot to do in the ethnic makeup of leadership in in law enforcement. There are so many. When I say law enforcement , I do mean sheriff's department and police department and ice agencies and border patrol. So many issues in all of those different departments. But as a body of law enforcement , this is the same problems that we're having as a total entity.
S2: I think it's just placating the issue of 15 or six and 594. I think those are efforts in the right direction , and this is just a superficial attempt to appease those bills.
S1: I've been speaking with Yousef Miller with the North County Equity and Justice Coalition. Yousef , thank you very much for joining us.
S2: Thank you for having me.
S3: San Diego is one step closer to realizing one of its biggest public transportation goals. The City of San Diego and SANDAG have agreed on building direct transit connections to the downtown airport. Here's San Diego Mayor Todd Gloria.
S2: WORLD-CLASS Cities connect to their airports , to their broader regional transportation system. And we have a incredible international airport. We have a wonderful light rail system. They are literally next to one another , but they don't connect. So the need to connect this is just sort of an obvious step in the building out of our transportation infrastructure. And it helps to strengthen our overall public transit network by adding one of the most important destinations.
S3: It's a two part plan. The first step will be building a trolley link to the Port of San Diego headquarters on Pacific Highway. The next and more ambitious step is the construction of a central mobility hub on the side of the present City Hall complex. This new vision abandons previous plans for a transportation Grand Central Station at the Navarre site in Old Town. But the new two step plan has gained strong support from San Diego leaders and cities around the county. Joining me is Colleen Clements and deputy CEO of SANDAG. And Colleen , welcome to the program.
S4: Thank you , Maureen.
S3: Now tell us about the plans for this first step , the long awaited transit connection to San Diego International Airport.
S4: This region has been talking about connecting our world class airport to public transit for decades. And now we finally got a plan to move forward. So really what we're talking about here is making a high speed transit connection that would connect from a port location along Pacific Highway and making that connection into what's the car rental facility at the airport and on into the terminals , a transit ready area at the airport. The second piece is really taking that connection into downtown San Diego. So these are ideas that have been explored with our board of directors over the last several months , but now we're really gaining enough momentum and analysis to really put this together so that we can actually have shovels in the ground within the next two years.
S4: So really what we're talking about , and I know this gets a little bit into the details , but rather than being a trolley , it would be a connection to the trolley to what we call an automated people mover. This is what you see in a lot of airports throughout the world. They move much more quickly than the trolley. 1 to 2 minutes. That's what makes a difference for someone getting to the airport. You may not be willing to wait seven or 5 minutes for the trolley , but to get on a people mover that would connect maybe where you get off at a trolley station or you get off the coaster or you're getting off an Amtrak train and get on an automated people mover that within 1 to 2 minutes can get you into the transit ready area at the airport.
S4: So we have to do an environmental analysis to to clear the project. And then we would begin the that the work. We also have a number of funding sources that will need to be identified to bring this to life.
S3: Now , the second part of this new transit vision for San Diego is what's being called a central mobility hub.
S3: And that would be located where the San Diego Civic Center is now. I'm intrigued by this notion of underground.
S4: And really , when you go into urbanized areas , we're fighting for space , you know , with vehicular traffic where we have the trolley. So underground does make most sense and can provide the most direct connection. We're also looking at new rail lines that will connect from the border and to some of our most urbanized areas into downtown San Diego. That would also connect into Kearny Mesa and up into our major employment centers in Sorrento Valley. So it's really a new era for transit in this region.
S4: Initial estimates are anywhere between two and $6 billion to build this out. We need to look at a number of different funding sources. I think we're really excited about the federal bill that has , you know , that we've all been talking about. We want to get this project ready to receive those funds. Ultimately , it will be up to the San Diego region's residents to decide how they want to pay for this. We will need new revenue sources to make this reality.
S3: So you're talking about some sort of tax down the road.
S4: This could be a new sales tax measure. It could be other state funds that we bring to bear. But we're most successful in this region , and most of your listeners probably know this today. We all pay a half cent sales tax toward transportation , and that happens in sales tax. Then those revenues we match with state and federal funds. In fact , the new rail line that we built up to UC San Diego , the extension of the blue line , half of that funding , that $2 billion project came from our half cent sales tax and the other half from a federal grant. So $1,000,000,000 was was generated here in the region and the other billion from a federal grant. That's the kind of thing we see happening here with this project.
S4: So we're really talking about a two year time frame to start that construction.
S3: And the Central Mobility Hub.
S4: Central Mobility Hub is a little bit longer term. That could be more of a 6 to 8 , maybe a ten year project. There's a lot that needs to be figured out there. But a truly transformational opportunity for the region.
S3: I've been speaking with Colleen Clements and she's deputy CEO of SANDAG. Colleen , thank you so much.
S4: My pleasure , Mary.
S3: This is KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Maureen CAVANAUGH with Jade Heineman. A second COVID booster shot increases immunity against COVID infection , as well as protecting against severe illness and hospitalization. That's the conclusion of the latest study published in the New England Journal of Medicine. Based on data from a second round of COVID booster shots administered in Israel , the results support the CDC recommendation that people over 50 who got their first booster more than four months ago should get a second booster shot. But so far , not many lines are forming for another vaccination here in San Diego. COVID fatigue may be dampening demand , but health officials say this is not the time for the most vulnerable populations to let their guard down. Joining me is Dr. Christian Reimers. He's assistant medical director with Family Health Centers. He also sits on San Diego County's vaccine clinical advisory group. Dr. Amos , welcome back to the show.
S2: Thank you for having me.
S3: Now , there's been a lot of confusion surrounding who should get a second booster or if it's really needed since cases have been declining.
S2: It's really targeted towards those that are most vulnerable and those who we have seen make up the majority of hospitalizations and deaths , and that is people of older age and those who are immunocompromised. Really , the data from Israel that you referred to that's now published in the New England Journal of Medicine actually focuses on those above age 60. And the CDC and the FDA actually expanded that just a little bit to those above age 50. So I do tell people that the evidence is strongest if you're above age 60 , and then it's kind of a permissive recommendation if you're above age 50.
S2: So this one in particular , there were 180,000 people in each arm , and they really looked at the comparison of those that had just a single booster or three shots altogether or a second booster , four shots with that second booster coming four months after the first one. And really across the board , really good benefits with not much added risk at all , really. So we had a 52% reduction in infection , a 72% reduction in hospitalization , and a 76% reduction in deaths from COVID in those that had their fourth vaccine or their second booster compared to those who only had three shots.
S3: People don't seem , though , to be eager to get a second booster , according to statewide vaccination data. San Diego has one of the lowest COVID 19 vaccine boosted populations in the state.
S2: But the message I like to send is this is exactly the time to do it. While cases are low , it's time to reinforce our protection that we have against COVID 19. I like to add that , you know , the first booster actually provides even more protection than the second booster , relatively. And so , first of all , we should focus on people who have not gotten their third shot or their first booster in order to get to those who need their second one. And I realize that there's a spectrum there's a lot of people that really are just getting tired of it. But I would urge people this is now in the category of routine vaccinations that we should be recommending , and most of us are really concerned about what's happening going forward into the fall. Generally , respiratory viruses like this do take a little bit of a break during the summer , but getting our protection as good as it can be before the fall comes around is really what we're focused on.
S3: Is that reluctance to get a second booster is something that's being seen across the country.
S2: You know , I think it is I think people don't quite understand it. And maybe that's a messaging problem. Look , the risks and benefits here are quite clear. The risks are minimal. There really were no additional adverse effects that were seen in these very large studies that mentioned 182,000 in each arm of this recent one , but 1.2 million total in the previous one that was seen in Israel. And the benefits really are to continue to give you additional protection. And although the protection against just an infection are seem to be rather short lived , it looks like the protection from hospitalization , severe disease and death do last quite a bit longer. And so that's really what we're worried about.
S2: And , you know , with a new variant that comes along like from those people that only got two doses , we're quite vulnerable to getting infected and then did suffer more severe disease than those who had gotten their booster. So as I mentioned , the benefit of that initial booster is really a large one. Initially , when it first came out , people were a little confused. Why do I need this ? But going through the Omar crime surge , certainly those who had just gotten their boosters were far more protected. And there is a little bit of protection that sort of does continue on. But we want to have it optimized in terms of the booster regimen. That's what we're really going for. Okay.
S3: Okay. So now the recommendation for people over 50 is for a second booster. And you just mentioned that this is now part of a routine vaccination regimen.
S2: So we're in a difficult spot right now about strategizing what to do in the fall. Part of that is because we're still using the same original vaccine from the Wuhan strain. And the idea that we should be able to adapt a little better is something on everyone's minds. The pharmaceutical companies Moderna and Pfizer are currently testing , or Macron specific variants , vaccines as well as vaccines that are sort of bivalent or trivalent , where they'd have at least one or two different strains. And the scientists and external experts that were in the discussion with the FDA really didn't know what the best thing to do was , because we don't know which variant is going to be there in the fall. The companies have said that they can have results by the fall , so we'll have to just kind of wait and see what the protection looks like at. One of the comments in that meeting was We can't just keep boosting ourselves forever. But it does make sense that an annual boost may be tailored to the the variant that's circulating at the time , similar to what we do with the influenza vaccine. Maybe where we're headed.
S3: The B.A. two sub variant of Omega Crown seems to be causing an uptick in COVID cases.
S2: And the two variant is just different enough from day one that it almost should have gotten its own Greek letter. Actually , there's probably a little bit of across immunity from those that have been infected by day one , maybe in January or so. But we are seeing people that are reinfected already who got the original Omicron in January and then March , April getting another infection. And that tells us that the bar one variant , whether because it was less severe or just different enough from B.A. to not really seeing a lot of cross immunity. So the answer is yes. What we're seeing in the Northeast , as well as what's happening in Europe and in some Asian countries , is the new surge is being driven really by that variant.
S3: I've been speaking with Dr. Christian Ramirez , assistant medical director with Family Health Centers , who also sits on San Diego County's vaccine clinical advisory group. And Dr. Ramirez , thank you so much.
S2: Maureen , thanks for having me.
S1: In its most recent IPCC climate report , the United Nations said there is no time to waste in the fight against climate change. The report also cited the crucial role cities play in that fight , saying they offer significant opportunities for emissions reductions so closer to home. A new climate report card released yesterday gave grades to 18 cities in the San Diego region. The results were mixed. The Climate Action Plan report card found some cities have made strides in climate action , but overall warned they are far from reaching zero carbon emissions and have a long way to go when it comes to climate equity as well. Here to tell us more about the report and its findings is one of the authors of the report , Brenda Garcia Marjan of Climate Action Campaign. Brenda , welcome.
S5: Thank you for having me.
S1: San Diego fell from being at the top of last year's report card down to fifth. With this year's report card.
S5: This year , we updated best practices because we graded San Diego's 2015 cap , which right now is in the process of being updated. That's the reason that they fell to the fifth position because the cap from 2015 was an ambitious enough. And right now , as an organization , we are asking for goals that are more feasible and there are more robust so that the City of San Diego can achieve its climate goals by 2035 , which is reaching net zero carbon.
S5: So we measure whether cities are doing outreach to communities of concern. We also include a new section on food security because we know that promoting healthy food systems , it's also important to reduce carbon emissions. We also have clean energy in transportation and land use , which are the main sectors that produce carbon emissions. So we evaluate how things are doing in those areas. We do an evaluation based on what series it report back. So based on the numbers that cities give us is how we evaluate them.
S1: What's the biggest hindrance to not seeing higher scores here in what many consider Green California.
S5: Even though most cities in the San Diego region have adopted climate action plans ? Some climate action plans are not legally binding. So that means that they don't really have the obligation , you know , they don't really have the commitment to actually implement decarbonization measures. So that's one major reason. Another reason , again , is equity. Many caps lack targets on equity. So what that means is that cities have an identify how they their decarbonization measures will benefit communities of concern which are the most vulnerable to the climate crises.
S5: So Oceanside , they actually have significant measures in food systems , for instance , because they have a carbon farming program and measures in urban agriculture and community gardens , which most cities in the regions don't have. And so cities like Oceanside got the points for that.
S1: And your report makes the case that climate equity in the region is falling far short , as you mentioned.
S5: There are certain camps that don't even have the word equity in them and that they don't make that acknowledgment. Another big part on climate equity is using the right tools to identify where those communities of concern are that are cities like the City of San Diego or the city of Chula Vista that have created climate equity indexes which help them identify those communities. But those are the only two cities in the region that have created a climate equity indexes.
S5: Rotation sector is the is the sector that produces a more carbon emissions ride. And that's one sector where cities are are just not doing well. You know , they're not improving. And that's really the point in because if we want the region to reach zero carbon , then we need cities to speed up their efforts on that front. The other thing is just implementation and funding. There's a lack of implementation and funding plans and that's really disappointing because right now the state of California is in a position where there's a $15 billion climate package that Governor Newsom released last year. So the fact is that there is funding available for cities to fund their climate action plans. But what we are seeing is that often cities don't have you know , they don't have grand riders , right. Or they don't have capacity to even seek those fundings , you know , to apply for grants. So that's where these are pointing , because we are in a once in a lifetime opportunity to bring money to communities to implement projects that will benefit their their future , their health and other will protect them from climate change.
S5: Right. Because we do not want caps to go unimplemented and underfunded. We know the importance of climate action plans because cities are at the frontline of the climate crisis. So we want cities in in the San Diego region to take leadership , because the fact is that San Diego , as the second largest city in California , can become a global leader in climate policy.
S1: I've been speaking with one of the authors of Climate Action Plan Report Card , Brenda Garcia , Marjan. Brenda , thank you so much for joining us.
S5: Thank you. My pleasure.
S3: There is an educational transformation happening in Logan Heights right now to bridge the achievement gap for underserved students. San Diego Unified has made a multimillion dollar investment in historically Hispanic neighborhood near downtown. KPBS education reporter MJ Perez tells us they're using an unconventional approach to learning.
S1: These are the sounds of music in the making. It's not perfect , but it is progress for seventh and eighth grade band members at the new Logan Memorial Educational Campus , better known by its acronym.
S6: MTC Ready.
S1: LMC is located in Logan Heights and several of its budding band students come from the neighborhood's former Logan K-8 and memorial prep middle schools , which the state had designated in 2019 as two of the lowest performing schools in California.
S6: Now we can teach kids all the way from kindergarten , all the way up to high school. By the time they hold high school Spanish.
S1: SERAFIN Paradis is the Elmi she band instructor who taught music at Memorial Prep for eight years. That school was closed to make way for the new educational complex that includes classrooms for children in preschool all the way through 12th grade. But that is just one part of the equation that equals a new curriculum , new resources and new opportunities for students who have been underserved for decades.
S6: We're hoping to be able to have a mariachi program , a band , an orchestra , hopefully jazz , Latin jazz , something that reflects our community , something that reflects the background of our students.
S1: San Diego Unified invested $180 million in taxpayer funded bond money to demolish the two former schools on the city block between Ocean View Boulevard and Logan Avenue , and replace them with state of the art structures , including the first ever Logan Heights High School. 14 year old Hector Robles will be part of the Lmdh class of 2026.
S2: I feel excited to be a freshman , to be the first elementary graduate of a high school. So we are first in.
S1: This new high school and building. The lower schools opened virtually last year. This is the first year students are on campus. The high school opens in August. Antonio B.R. was the principal of the former Fulton K-8. Now his same position is called Designer of Learning at Elmi. He says there's something else very different about the learning here. As a system.
S6: We're really honoring what Maria montessori showed us about what happens with children who are developing and how to better make sure how to better align our instruction to the particular student.
S1: Elm She teachers are using the Montessori method exclusively in the elementary school , starting with a mixed preschool class of three , four and five year olds. Montessori education encourages student independence and creativity with more hands on learning. And teachers are guides instead of lecturers. Adriana Travertine Lopez is one of the school's strategy and instruction support officers who helped implement the model , which until now has been used only in elite private schools.
S4: That's why it was important for us to really focus on using Montessori in Logan Heights , where we are working with children that tend to be marginalized. In.
S4: Educational systems. But with that , we really want to show that these students are just as capable of it as any other children.
S1: She says it will be at least a year before they have assessment data to see how they're doing in reaching that success. Melanie Gray is the designer of learning for the new high school , which still has construction crews completing final details before opening in the fall.
S4: We're a little bit of a question mark. I think the feeling among the community is they want to wait and see and make sure that we are really going to do what we say we're going to do.
S1: Back at Mr. Pratt , that is his band practice. The sound of success is already being heard. M.G. Perez , KPBS. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman with Maureen CAVANAUGH. La Jolla Playhouse is Without Walls or Wow is a festival of interactive and site inspired theater. The Playhouse describes the show as an invitation to reimagine what theater can be through intriguing and playful experiences. Past performances have been in the back seat of a car , on a basketball court and in high school classrooms. Its very design made it highly adaptable to the pandemic , which prompted artists to think even more about working outside of traditional theater spaces. And in the virtual world this year , Wow is back in person. And KPBS arts reporter Beth ACCOMANDO has this preview.
S7: Bridget ROUNTREE and Ian Gunn of Animal Cracker Conspiracy are veterans of site specific events like fringe and lawyer playhouses without walls. They're puppeteers extraordinaire , and this year they present trans mythical at wow. ROUNTREE explains the appeal of site specific work.
S4: Yeah , I always like to say creativity loves constraints. And so , you know , when you don't have everything at your fingertips , there becomes a certain necessity to use what's readily available or in the case of site responsive work , to have the ability to respond and think on your feet and creatively solve problems , which I feel like is absolutely part of any artistic process. So so we we love a good challenge.
S7: Dominique Salerno is an artist who put restraints on herself in order to carry her site specific stage wherever she goes. A native San Diegan and a graduate of La Hoya Playhouse's Young Conservatory program , Salerno will present the box show at this year's. Wow. It's a one woman show where Salerno performs 30 characters from inside a small box.
S4: I can , if you want. Set up in the box.
S7: She's apparently grown quite comfortable in that space because she stepped into it for the Zoom interview.
S4: I am Inside of the Box , which is my set for the show that I'm bringing to Wow Fest at Loyola Playhouse. So this is a two by three by three little box , and this is where I do the entire 90 minute show.
S4: I got my masters in acting at American Conservatory Theater , and I asked them for a space to develop a solo show over the course of two weeks. And they randomly assigned me this room that had a small cupboard built into the wall. And inside the cupboard was like a V equipment. And I think on my third day , I hadn't come up with any ideas. I was like , What am I doing ? I'm alone in this room developing the solo show. And I climbed inside the cupboard to , like , think about it , to , like , reset. And it just came to me. I was like , what if the whole show is from inside this small space ? And so the first 45 minutes of the show that you'll see at Laura Playhouse was born out of just that experimentation. You know , right inside a real cupboard.
S7: Now , I've always felt that artist do work better with constraints. Like if they're totally free to do anything , things tend to not turn out as well as if they are given constraints.
S4: That limitation is actually a gift and it helps you to create inside of like the confines of like an outline. So for me , this has just been playing around in this little space has been just a godsend for my creativity and my imagination , because you you think to yourself what could possibly be in there ? But then it sort of spirals into what could it be in there ? It could be anything like you can completely shift what the space means , your perspective within the space , things can be larger or smaller.
S4: Yeah , it completely morphs. The doors come kind of in different configurations. My body turns to sort of give you a completely new perspective. It's really like looking down on a kaleidoscope in some moments of the show.
S7: So we've talked about the physical space of your show.
S4: I would say the show is about imagination , exploration and joy and really. Pushing yourself to see the dark and the light that can come out of like real creativity. There are some through lines , some themes. If you come into the show with an open mind , I think that's the best way to sort of absorb this experience.
S7: And you are going to be performing this at Wow , which is without walls.
S4: And I think that the diversity of this festival is what makes it so fantastic. And I think it's really exciting as an artist to play in a culture that's going to be that open and that welcoming. So I feel really fortunate to be bringing the show to a Place Without Walls Festival. Even though I'm bringing my own walls and it's sort of like bring your own walls. So that's me.
S7: And in putting the show together and performing it.
S4: You can create your own set and bring it anywhere and put it up anywhere. And like people can love your show. There's so many things in the world of an artist where you feel like you need to jump through all these different hoops and there are all these limitations placed on you. And that's sort of what inspired this was like I wanted to defy limitations by throwing them right into my creative space. So it's been really exciting and really interesting to sort of take the helm of all aspects of a production and just say , I can do this on my own and I can share this for the joyful heart and just let , let it be art for the sake of art without asking permission.
S4: So when I close the doors , it's completely dark. So I'm sort of like operating in darkness , like trying to change the lights into all these different setups. And inside here I have all of my different props , which I'll give you a little sneak peek of the type of thing that can be in here. So , you know , you never know what you're going to find inside of these little compartments. We've got a couple eggs. We got a couple arms. You have to come come through to see the rest of the body , I guess. But the props are very , very simple. It really requires , like , audience imagination , and it allows us to fill in the fill in the blanks.
S7: Well , I want to thank you very much for talking about the box show.
S4: Hopefully people will come and like enjoy and imagine and create with me and feel part of it.
S1: The 2022 Without Walls Festival will feature four days of theatre , dance and music with performances by local , national and international artists occurring simultaneously April 21st through the 24th.