S1: Welcome in San Diego , it's Jade Hindman , a local San Diegan shares their family's history of migration and incarceration during World War two. A Story of Resilience. This is KPBS Midday Edition. Connecting our communities through conversation. This month , we're diving deeper into the rich history of Asian American and Pacific Islander communities in San Diego. AAPI Heritage Month commemorates two major events in May. The arrival of the first Japanese immigrant , Nakajima and Jiro , into the United States in 1843 , then the completion of the transcontinental railroad in 1869. Many of the first Japanese immigrants coming into San Diego and Imperial counties were railroad workers , farmers and fishermen. Hear it from Susan Hasegawa , a professor of history at San Diego City College.
S2: In spite of then the alien landlords , federal legislation or federal agreements , um , you know , you had a growing community of Japanese American families , farmers , fishermen , um , small businesses in downtown San Diego on the eve of World War two.
S1: Against all odds. The local Japanese-American community was flourishing , but the incarceration of more than 120,000 Japanese-Americans during World War Two had a devastating impact on families in San Diego and , according to Hasegawa , decimated many local institutions. Still , the community continued to rebuild.
S2: I think one of the lessons to me is the resilience of the Japanese American community.
S1: These days , Japanese Americans in San Diego continue to explore their family history , unraveling their roots and reflections in the current moment. Earlier this week , I spoke with A.T. Farrugia , who works with the Japanese American Historical Society. Their family ties to the region go back four generations. At is also an educator and advocate for the LGBTQ plus community. I started by asking about their background and where they grew up. Here's that conversation.
S3: I grew up all over San Diego , mostly in Barrio Logan , where my family house is , and I live there currently. There was some times that I was in Imperial Beach , I was in Chula Vista , and and I spent a lot of my teenage younger years in El Cajon. Nice.
S1: Nice. All right.
S3: It was a I , you know , moving from Logan Academy out to Rios Elementary was a bit of a culture shock. I think I my first day there doing , like , four square dancing and I just asked my mom. I was like , what's what is this like , what's going on ? And , uh , they had explained to me , and I think it was also the first time I realized I was Asian , um , because it just was never an issue. And when I played on the playground or made friends , we didn't talk about race. And so that was that became my central focus of my identity. When I moved to East County , I was I was the Asian kid , not just like 80. Um , so that was a big learning curve for me.
S1:
S3: Um , our major gatherings were the festivals at the temple , and that's my favorite. It's a celebration. It's kind of like our day of the dead , where we celebrate our ancestors. Uh , the other one was we had a Japanese picnic that was put on by the Japanese American Citizens League every summer , and that was fun. We had traditional , like , snow cones and , uh , like four legged race or like guitar races and stuff that had just been around since before World War two. Um , so that was a long standing tradition. But over the years , as Japanese Americans started to move away or spread out , our community also just got smaller and smaller. So , um , I intentionally got involved in the Japanese American community when I was actually at San Diego State doing my , um , my bachelor and my bachelor's degree and my master's degree in history. Mm.
S1: Mm. I mean , so take us to the beginning and walk us through some of your family history there. Uh , your great grandparents on both sides immigrated from Japan.
S3: There was a really big farming community growing in San Diego. And so they they joined. They they came over from Japan. And my. Both of my great grandmothers , they were arranged marriages. And so they actually didn't meet prior to getting married. They met when they docked. And , uh , it was a really , um , my one of my great grandfathers , I guess just from the stories that I've heard , he went to meet her. Saw her , turned around , walked away , and like , she didn't hear from him for over a week , and I , I was like , that's so bizarre. Where did she stay ? And my mom's like , she stayed with , you know , friends or folks in the community. But it apparently worked out because they had 11 kids , so.
S4: They were fruitful.
S3: So something at some point clicked , I guess.
S1: All right. Well , I mean , your grandparents were a Nisei or second generation Japanese-Americans who were incarcerated during World War Two.
S3: It was like , we can't dwell on the past because it's when it was painful. And to I think part of the culture is like , if we don't dwell in the past , you can't move forward. And my grandparents both just didn't talk about it. So my mom , when she was in high school and her teacher said , oh , well , Kim , you know , a history lesson. She was like , your parents were in incarcerated during World War Two or. But she said they went to camp. And that's what we we refer to World War Two , the the War Relocation Authority prisons. We refer to them as camps within our community. So the teacher said , like , oh , your parents , you know , they were in camp and my mom was like , my parents don't camp. Like , we don't do that , right ? And she had no idea. You know , she's in middle school. High school doesn't understand , like , what happened ? Went home , talked to my grandma , and my grandma was just like , oh , yeah. Yeah , but it wasn't a big deal. And they kind of told my mom that they found my aunt Joy , who was born in Poston , that she was found in a basket floating down the river. Oh my God. So my mom was like , actually , it never occurred to me that that's not real. And like , where did Auntie Joy come from ? And so and so I actually didn't know until my mom was like , I want to make sure , you know , that this is a part of history , too. And then I just started , you know , I was asking my grandma a lot of questions , but she , again , was a little reserved and she didn't , like , tell anybody her story until my mom took her to Vegas. I was like , a lot of Japanese-Americans would go on bus rides out to Vegas , and she was like , okay , you're on the bus. Stuck with me for the next , you know , 4 or 5 hours. I want to know what happened. and apparently my grandfather actually was a volunteer. So they got the notice from the post office that Executive Order 966 , that everybody has one week to pack all that they can carry. And they were going to report to the the train station. And my grandfather , um , I guess , volunteered to go set up , uh , post in , um , prison. You know , it's a constant American concentration camp. And , um , so he I think they got to take a little bit more stuff , but he , from what I read , is his perspective was , um , this is inevitable. I want to try to help organize and make this as easy and seamless as possible. Um , and so he ended up becoming a block manager in Poston. So he was doing a lot of community organizing within within the post and camp. My grandma had just had a baby. She had a newborn baby , um , 11 months later. You know , my aunt's born in 1943 , so they've been in camp at this point at Poston for six months. And she has a newborn baby , too. So , uh , she the only thing she took were my Uncle Gilbert's baby stuff. That's all she could take. So a lot of the things , um , that their possessions , they had to sell or they just lost. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Wow.
S4: Wow.
S1:
S3: Um , she my mom's been very open about , like , conversations that we have. Uh , I think the , the thing that's been difficult is , like , what does that mean ? In my life as a kid growing up in East County where , you know , I think she was we were moving kind of from Barrio Logan , which in the 90s was really steeped in , uh , gang violence. And so my mom was like , this is the safest move. But then there's a different Hurdle , right ? There's a different frontier to kind of navigate as far as safety , and that's navigating racism in a different way that than I had experienced when I lived in Logan. Um , so I think for my mom to teach me history was not necessarily at the forefront , but it also was not something to be ashamed of and , uh , something to say , like , we , our family went through this and we have to we have to I have to teach you so that we don't. This doesn't happen again.
S4:
S1: What was that like for your family coming back to San Diego. Right.
S3: Right. My grandparents were , when they were finally given permission to leave the post and concentration camp , they moved to the Midwest because they were told , you can't move back to San Diego. It's unsafe and nobody wants you there. Um , so they moved to a haven port , and they lived there for a couple of years. Then they started to kind of migrate back to San Diego , and I believe they arrived in 1947. So they were gone for about five years , and they returned to San Diego. My grandfather , uh , he was a gardener and then a fisherman. So he was holding a couple of jobs , and then he just went to fishing full time , and he had lost his boat before they confiscated his boat , before he went into the Poston , um , concentration camp. And I think he had listed like , you know , he lost some tools and stuff from gardening. So , um , my grandmother also was a house cleaner , and then she worked at the Bumblebee Tuna canned factory in Logan.
S1: You know , when they moved back to San Diego , did you know racial covenants or redlining complicate that process ? Right.
S3: So , Logan. Logan Heights , a lot of folks don't realize , but Barrio Logan , Logan Heights actually had a large concentration of Japanese-Americans. Um. My family. Uh , the furious , the Kobayashi's. We all lived within , like , blocks of each other. And to my knowledge , we're the last Japanese American family still living in the area. Everybody's moved east , you know , to Chula Vista , to , um , Mira mesa , to convoy area and Paradise Hills. So , um , there was a large concentration of Japanese-Americans that then had community and showed up and took care of each other. If someone had to go to the doctors. And we also had a Japanese physician who would do house calls and visit , and , uh , there were Japanese delivery drivers who would bring food. And so you kind of knew the schedule and they would bring snacks and stuff , like specific to , to the Japanese culture. And my mom would talk about that like as a kid , um , a lot. And that that was always exciting. And , um , how they all kept connected.
S1: Yeah that's great. And , you know , so it sounds like there was a really tight knit Japanese-American community.
S3: Um , what's kind of holding us together , unfortunately , is this history is World War two. What happened to our families ? Um , it's created this divide between Japanese people who who have immigrated after World War two. So we call them like Shin Issei or Nisei or Nikkei. Um , so it's like first generation. Second generation , or just like Japanese. And , um , that has , I think , been a really difficult bridge because when you've experienced this kind of trauma or crisis , they're like trauma bonded. And then we are intergenerational trauma bonded. So when I meet other Japanese Americans and I find out they've been here since before the war , then then our our way to connect is like , oh , what camp was your family in ? And if they're like , oh , I was in Manzanar. I was in Poston. And it's like , oh , Poston one , 2 or 3 because my family was in one. And then that's kind of how we connect and say , like , we're from the same community. Um , so I think it's been a real struggle. It's a struggle to , uh , again , as as folks are moving out and not connected to their history. And I think this is the the results of the war. We lost so many things like , um , you need to , like , stop talking. Um , stop speaking Japanese. So , like , none of my aunts and , um , my mom or uncle , they didn't speak Japanese , just my grandparents. And that was intentional. It was intentional. Like , we don't want you to stand out. We don't want you to get in trouble. Focus on your English. And we've seen this happen in other cultures , not just Japanese American communities. And I think it's the same with connection to religion and faith and practices of your culture and the tightness of your community. I think there's a lot of fear when we talk about our connections to our history , and we talk about our community. I think the damage was clearly done , and it was intentional , because the whole reason they incarcerated Japanese people to begin with was a fear that they were spies , or that they were going to cause some sort of treason , or that there was espionage which they never found. And so I think it's intentional to break up these communities. And my grandparents , known as the Silent Generation , for just trying to , like , make it and trying to to ride low under the radar.
S1: Still ahead at talks about their different identities being trans and Japanese-American , and the parallels they're seeing between their past and the current moment.
S3: For me , as a Japanese person who understands that part of my history , who has it that intergenerational trauma , who is resilient. I also know the power of an executive order and what that can lead to.
S1: Hear more when KPBS Midday Edition returns. Welcome back. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. We continue our conversation with A.T. Farrugia , a board member of the Japanese-American Historical Society of San Diego , about their history and the parallels they're seeing today. Farrugia is one of the first Japanese Americans to get their nonbinary gender marker a few years ago. So I asked them about that experience and how they're continuing to advocate for the LGBTQ plus community and what it's like for LGBTQ plus Japanese-Americans navigating their identity today.
S3: It's interesting because when I first came out as queer , my mom was like , all right , cool. I get that like , understand ? When I came out as trans , it was a little bit more confusing. And I think my mom , similar to me too , was like , what does that mean for Japanese people ? Like , I've never heard of a Japanese American person or a Japanese person being trans. And I hadn't either. I think , again , when you think of generational trauma and my grandma being like , we're not going to talk about the past , it can't be helped , just like make the best of it. I internalized that to where it was like , I can't be queer , I can't be , I don't know what's going on with my gender , and I have nobody to talk to about it. Um , so I'm just going to make the best of what I have. That is a direct relation and connection to what my grandparents went through during World War two. And so I dealt with it the same way. And I , I don't think I was hiding , I think I just didn't know the path and I didn't know I didn't have permission , I didn't have permission from society. And more importantly , I didn't have permission for myself to say , this is your choice. This is who you are. You're going to honor yourself in this moment. And feeling like I was the only Japanese person was like , is something's wrong with me ? If there are not others like me who are experiencing or sharing their stories. And I think at a really low point in my life , when I was trying to assert my gender identity , I actually found , I think , comfort and empowerment by looking into our history. So there's a woman named Isa Shimoda who had immigrated here in the early 1900s. She enlisted when they took down like , what is your occupation ? She put a tailor , not a seamstress. She wore men's clothing. She rolled cigarettes , which women did not do at the time. She didn't speak English , and she ran her own cafes at the docks for the fishermen. And she would play poker and she would do iaido , which is like samurai sword practice. And she did things that women were doing. So she was definitely gender bending , gender transgressing. And it was allowed because she had some level of economic stability. And so , you know , going through the archives and going , whoa , I hear a lot of times people say , oh , queer and trans is such a new thing. And so to find her in the archives , I think for me was a moment of she is just one of how many other people from our past that like , you know , you didn't have the words , you didn't have the language. I was just so obsessed with finding more information because I was like , this is one , this is incredible. And two , it brought me out of this like I am an anomaly and that something's wrong with me to like. There are concrete evidence that trans people , queer people , have existed in Japan , in all cultures , of every civilization , throughout all time. And , um , that was a moment for me , uh , to pull me out of this , like deep depression of there's no future. How am I going to navigate this alone ? To like , being in a space at the historical society where they were like , we want to know more. Let's , you know , it wasn't a oh , let's let's ignore that. It was actually like , let's dive deeper.
S1: You mentioned , you know , that your experience coming out being freeing for many people. I think we always hear about that. You know , about it being freeing , but is it the coming out that's freeing , or is it the every step along the journey you take to live more authentically ? Um. That's freeing.
S3: I think what feels freeing , and it's hard to explain if you haven't had to come out. But for me , there was a electric ball in my chest where I was like , I'm gonna say this and there's no going back. I'm like , once this is out , once I've shared it and , um , it feels like I have nothing to hide anymore. Like I don't have anything to fear. Like I am who I am. The fear that I have is other people's problem , not mine. Right. Like before , I think when I was , like , trying to pretend to be someone , I was like , I just. I'm living up to expectations that aren't mine. And I'm living up to expectations that don't make sense for my life , that don't align with who I am. And so I felt like I was kind of just stumbling through life for other people. When what feels freeing is like knowing who I am , not having to pretend. Um , and that's not the case for every trans person , right ? Like , I still have to look in my closet and say , am I wearing this outfit ? That is so cute. Or am I gonna , you know , go a little bit more conservative and like , I don't know the reaction of the folks I'm going to interact with. I'm traveling in this area. I'm going to look and present very differently in some parts of this country than in others. And so that's still something I have to navigate. But I don't have to fear or question who I am. I was living in this limbo of like , I guess I'm this person to I am this person. And that that confidence that I've just never felt that in my life and I've been out for , oh my gosh , I can't do math anymore. I want to say like 15 years and I , I can't imagine having to. I saw that Texas is trying to pass a bill that where people are transitioning. You have to detransition. I can't I don't know what that means. How do you detransition and how do I , you know , maybe on paper it may say I am no longer this person , but like on paper , my grandparents were enemies , right ? During World War Two. They weren't actually enemies of this country. Um , I'm going to have to look on paper and say this government document says this , but that's not who I am. Um , and I think working I've worked with trans youth for about 12 years of this. We've lost a lot of trans youth to suicide because they didn't think there was a future , because they were bullied , because they didn't have accepting families. And , um , and I think looking forward into the work that I'm doing and why it's so important is because I was at that point to where I was like this , why am I here ? This why am I existing here in this , on this planet and here ? If I can't , even everything I'm doing is dictated and controlled by somebody else. And how other people want to feel comfortable. But then I'm uncomfortable and I'm unhappy. And this is my life. And I think that's part of the message , is I like when folks are like , you know , well , religion and you're trying to control our faith. I'm like , absolutely not. Your faith is yours. And that's sacred. And that's like , I respect that. And just as you have your faith to believe in whatever you want , I have the right to be me. So I think for the conversations that have been happening and this idea that trans is a new thing and that it's a threat to this country being trans and the intersection of my identity being Japanese-American , I'm like , I the contributions I'm making to this country and to my communities is like keeping people alive , helping them graduate from school , and to not make the same mistakes that we've seen happen in the past. I think history is important for me , and because it's it's freeing. There's a part of knowing that you were talking about earlier when you know your history. I know where I'm going because I know where I came from.
S1:
S3: What we're seeing happen with the way that that the current administration is eliminating due process is , I think , the way that immigrants are being demonized. That's not new. That's not new to American history. That's actually like at the foundation of our history has been this like issue of who are the immigrants and who are the people who aren't and are immigrants bad or are they good ? And for my family , my my grandparents and my great grandparents and the Japanese community during World War two , the framework that we are seeing shared today , if you were to open the paper , if you were to read a post , you literally could take out , um , Central America , South America. Mexico. Any of those countries and where the those folks are from ? And put Japanese Americans in that place. And you're looking at a 1942 early 40s , a headline that's equivalent. So the blueprint has always been there , even before Japanese Americans. That was also lifted from Chinese immigrants. Right. Like , we've just historically seen this before. It was Irish immigrants. And and so there's always been this , this like wave of fear of we're going to lose power and control if these folks continue to come into our country. Um , and what my grandparents experienced as far as getting to the point of imprisonment like Americans. So when we look at this like , oh , well , they're immigrants , so they don't have rights. Well , that's not how our Constitution is built. And when you start to take away what the Constitution means and these laws , they don't mean anything , which means anything goes , which is also what led to American citizens being incarcerated. And my aunt , who was literally born in an American concentration , she was born in prison. Um , and we're seeing this happen in the immigration centers , and the executive orders come out. And I'm for me , like , knowing exactly how executive orders create chaos. They create confusion and the way that they've been promoted currently with this administration. What's alarming to me is it's hard for any person to keep up with what's being thrown out. So we're all just at this elevated , um , fear. Anything can happen. Communications being switched. And it's hard to follow. Like , what is actual law and what isn't ? Um , it's hard to know your rights in a moment when you're saying , well , if these people have lost their due process and now we're seeing American citizens lose their due process , how do I know that's not going to impact me ? And the number of bills , Anti-transgender bills that have happened this year are the most that have ever happened. And so for me , as a Japanese person who understands that part of my history , who has it that intergenerational trauma , who's resilient , right , resiliency , I also know the power of an executive order and what that can lead to. So I'm watching the parallels of the attacks on the trans community , um , taking away identity , taking away passport. I , you know , I have a gender marker X. I don't know what that means anymore if I travel. And then also to see what's happening to the immigrant population in this country and tie that back to what happened to Japanese-Americans , I'm like , we are in the pattern. We are in the cycle. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. I mean , since this is a page out of a very old playbook , what's the one thing that you think enables this to happen over and over again.
S3: When you try to eliminate inclusion in schools like , um , diversity , equity , Inclusion has somehow become like a trigger phrase when it literally is talking about facts about the history , I don't. When I look back at my history and and I'm not saying that all Japanese Americans are perfect , I think there were things that happened within camp going to war or whatever. Like there were there has always been questionable actions. Were they doing that for survival ? Were they doing that ? Um , because they , you know , they thought that was their duty. Um , and I think that when we can't sit with our past , our history and say , okay , I'm not taking responsibility for what happened six years ago , but I am taking responsibility for my part today and what I'm doing and my actions. And I think that's what people are getting mixed up on , is that we're going to go back and say , well , you now have to go to prison for something that people you're not even related to you did to my people. That's not what we're asking. Um , we're asking to not forget. So that , like , let's talk about the things that of our past that were great , that we want to move forward. The things of our past that were not great , that we , you know , we're learning from our mistakes. And when you take out , um , you know , inclusive education and history and cultural awareness days , we lose that knowledge. Japanese-American incarceration is not something that's just generally taught anyway. So when it's it also is then not a surprise that when I talk about it in classrooms , when I talk about it on podcasts , when I talk about it to people in trainings , um , that they're like , whoa , I didn't even realize that happened. Or I kind of knew that that happened , but they didn't know how bad it was or how impactful that was for generations. Um , and I think when we are able to look at a situation like what happened to Japanese Americans and then look at what's going on today and to say this was bad , what happened to Japanese Americans was bad. And then to look at what's happening today and go. But why then is this okay ? It starts to bring in that critical thinking , right ? You're starting to bridge those connections to say , okay , we've got to at some point stop this cycle , disrupt it and do better.
S1: That was my conversation with A.T. Furuya , board member of the Japanese American Historical Society. That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
