S1: Welcome in San Diego , it's Jade Hindman. On today's show , transgender sailor and advocate Paolo Battista sits down to talk about the impact of the trans military ban. This is KPBS Midday Edition. Connecting our communities through conversation. Earlier this month , the Supreme Court cleared the way for the Trump administration to ban transgender troops from serving in the military. So far , the Trump administration has set a deadline for trans active duty personnel to separate voluntarily. That date is set for early next month. But after that , they will start removing troops from service involuntarily and ban future enlistment of transgender individuals. While legal challenges to the ban continue. How is this impacting trans service members and aspiring recruits here in San Diego ? Paolo Battista is experiencing the impact of the ban firsthand. He's an active duty sailor and an advocate for the trans community. I spoke with him on Friday. Here's that interview.
S2: I just want to say that everything that I say here today is from my personal opinion and not on the DoD's opinion or based on anything with the Navy. So this is all on my account.
S1: All right. Noted. Well , I mean , this is not the first time the Trump administration has attempted to enact this ban that we're talking about here.
S2: It's not correct. Many of us have been serving for years prior to this ban , in the ban in 2016. You know , I fought against that ban originally. It took me six years. So to see this happening again , I mean , it's not something I want to do. Nothing that we we crave to do. Um , and it's just it's it's hurtful because we , you know , we over the years since the first being shown what kind of individuals we are , what kind of sailors , troops that we are. And we do not we're not what these individuals are stating. We are , uh , we work and we serve in pride. Uh , we do everything that we're supposed to do. We meet the requirements and everything that they're asking us to meet. And we're great leaders. We're deployable. We're doing everything that we're supposed to be doing. So it's it's hard for us , many of us , especially individuals who went through the first band. It's exhausting. So.
S1: Yeah , but as you alluded to earlier , I mean , you've seen a lot of policy change and a lot of policy shifts over the years under different presidential administrations from Don't Ask , Don't Tell to the current trans military ban. band.
S2: Unfortunately , with the , you know , last band leadership then saw how how much we were needed and they allowed us to stay in. They grandfathered us in. And I mean , it put less of an impact on military readiness because they knew we were important. We were vital. And now with this band , there's none of that. We are literally all getting purged out. And , you know , at first they were talking about looking into medical records , which that was going to cost millions of dollars. I mean , there's 1.3 million of us to go through everybody's medical record. That's unheard of. But now they've changed it. So that in my eyes and opinion , this is Don't Ask , don't tell. 2.0 as we're naming it , they're putting on our physical assessment that we do every year. It's an annual physical assessment and a direct question , you know , do you identify with gender dysphoria ? Have you ever been diagnosed with gender dysphoria ? And that is their way of looking for individuals who are trans within the military. So many of us still have time if we don't go voluntarily. But at the same time , you know , the hard part for us right now is our commands are our family. And that's another part of this current policy is our commanders , our individuals , our brothers , our sisters now have to report us per , you know , this policy and it's hurtful. They don't want to do that. You know , I look at my leadership and I can see the pain in their eyes because I'm a valuable a sailor. They don't want to lose me. And nor do they want to do this to hurt me. So that's what people need to understand. Like , this isn't just affecting the trans military service member. You're affecting leadership and now you're affecting other individuals at the command. Right ? They're afraid to speak the leadership. Yeah.
S1: Yeah.
S2: A lot of individuals are going to be , you know , afraid to talk to their leadership like about their personal life and depression. Right now in the military is a big deal. It's getting overlooked. And to not allow a sailor to be that person or be able to speak about , you know , let's say it becomes a new don't ask , don't tell. How are they going to be afraid to talk about their their personal life , which is important , vital to be a great sailor.
S1: Like , I would imagine that this poses a national security risk to some extent.
S2: You're opening up billets. Uh , going back to the military readiness you're losing. We're not junior. We're not just junior enlisted. Let me make a point. Here we are officers. We are top leadership. We've run departments , ships. You know , some of us run commands to lose that you're affecting multiple individuals now. Other people have to pick up those positions and you're going to have billets that aren't covered. So yeah , that hurts national security. Those there's nobody filling those spots. So who's going to cover down ? Who's going to take over those positions. You're putting more work on other individuals taking away from their personal life , putting stress on their personal lives at home , because now they got to cover more hours , more duty time. You know , this stuff isn't just covered. We do more than just sit at a desk.
S1: Yeah , right. You know , you've you've had such a long journey in this.
S2: But he inspired me. He was in the Air Force. He did 20 years. And my father was a first generation immigrant , and he thought this would be great for me. He saw how great it was for him , and he inspired me to do it in high school. And I did that over 20 years ago. I did four years of it , but at the time my dad got sick , he suffered long term cancer effects and he suffered a severe stroke after an open heart surgery. So I had to make a well , it wasn't even a decision. It was I'm taking care of my father. He took care of me. I'm going to give up my you know , this is my time to take care of him. And that's what I chose to do rather than go into the military. But after he passed away , I decided to make a choice. Either I was going to enlist. Unfortunately , Don't Ask Don't Tell was still existent at that time , so I was going to have to hide myself. Or do I take this opportunity and navigate and transition to my authentic self ? I transitioned in 2009 and you know it was going to be a big journey either way , right ? Um , so I decided to travel that and find pathways to help other individuals transition at the time , hoping that eventually the policy would change , which it did. But policy takes time in the military. So I continued my transition , and I was hoping there'd be a follow on to allow , allowed , you know , trans people to serve , which it did. Obama gave us that opportunity. And that's when I started. I started my enlistment at that point. But unfortunately , there wasn't instruction on how to properly enlist trans individuals at the time. Yes , we were allowed , but medical always wants instructions. That's how the military works. And if it's not clear , it makes it hard. And it took what it was a long process because they were just going back and forth. And by the time that we made movement , unfortunately , a new administration decided to make the new or the prior trans ban , so that through everything that I worked hard for , for about two years out the window , and it was a battle I fought , you know , I kept fighting. Reaching out to recruiter after recruiter. Nobody wanted to come back , even though there wasn't a ban , technically.
S1: Well , I mean , it sounds like there were a number of challenges.
S2: That was the biggest , hardest part. They would push back because they were uncomfortable with enlisting us or helping us to get to enlisted status or open status. And , you know , like for me , it took me , God , four years and over printing , overhand printing , over 2500 medical records , sectioning off to give to this medical because they wanted us to be super clear. Right. They wanted to make sure every avenue was covered. But that's the normal life for a transgender individual. We always have to be ten steps above somebody else. That's just our reality , whether it's what are we doing on a job ? But for instance , it was for medical records and it took four years. I literally had to travel from San Diego , where I've been since 2013 , to Chicago in 2022 and leave everything that I knew. To follow my dream. And which I did. I got a job on base and I kept looking , I kept fighting , I was like , I got to meet somebody. Somebody's going to help me. I don't know how , but I'm going to do it. You know , when you have a dream , you just make it happen. Yeah. And I ended up meeting somebody that worked with recruiting , who showed me new ways to file grievances , to show that I was eligible to get past this battle. And , uh , he helped me in. Six months later , and while in Chicago , he I enlisted.
S1: Well , we mentioned the Trump administration's deadline , uh , currently , that is June 6th for active duty troops , in July 7th for those in the National Guard and reserve.
S2: Uh , my spouse active duty. I've been in for 26 years. He was going to do one last tour , which would have ended my tour. I still have at least three and a half years on my contract , and the goal was to for us to end towards the end , and I'm me going to the reserves. That's what I wanted to do. And he would retire. Obviously , 30 years is enough. He would say no , he loves the Navy. So I mean , it's his choice. But the ultimate goal was , you know , he would retire , make his next level of rank , retire. And I would go on reserves. And we wanted to travel overseas for a while. You know , as a reservist , I'd be able to do many mobilizations , as I call it , like many deployments for so many months out of the year. And then we'd be able to live together and enjoy. I mean , we've been together for almost 13 years long distance. We've sacrificed for the military. You know , I it's what we've had to do. And I was okay with it. I knew what I signed up for when I became his spouse and partner. You know , but this was going to be our moment to finally enjoy life together in. Now it kind of changes things. You know , now going into back to the civilian world , becoming a dependent again. You know , now he feels like he has to stay in longer and he can't retire. He wants to make sure I have that medical coverage and be able to be protected. I'm his family. You know , like that's what you would do for your family rather than take the retirement. Now , this is our ultimate new pathway , unfortunately , and it changes everything.
S1: What are you hearing from other active duty service members here in San Diego about , you know , how they're bracing for this.
S2: Some have put in many , many years. And they're looking at the involuntarily , you know , involuntary separation. And they're concerned about their benefits. They're retired. Many of them are close to that retiring age , you know , and they're getting the early retirement for some as long as they take the voluntary separation. Some don't want to leave. They love what they do. I mean , we do. We love to serve. That's that's one thing about , you know , I'd say good 99% of us. We want to keep serving , but now we have to turn it around to protect , you know , our benefits , everything we've sacrificed for years. Some need to do it because they want to protect their families. And that's that's , you know , a valid. Um , some are new , like like me , we don't get any benefits whether we've voluntarily separate , you know , and like I was saying , some got their citizenship through this , right ? So what happens now ? Are they they're concerned not only about their citizenship. They're concerned about future benefits. I mean , they sacrificed to enlist , move their entire lives. Yeah.
S1:
S2: Unfortunately , the feeling that I knew of getting everything tossed out and and waiting like I had to do for years , you know , there's policy. Like I said , this policy is different. It completely stops everything. You know , the last Time again. They said there wasn't a band. The policy wasn't completely clear , but this one's clear. This one states there will be no secession sailors. There will be no enlistments. And if you've got the gender dysphoria diagnosis , you are disqualified. And for them , their dreams are crushed. You know , they've watched their parents , like many of the youth that I've been , you know , inspired and spoke to with Trans Family Support Services , they're inspired by their family to enlist. This is what their goal was. And that's what they saw with me , you know. Well , if you could do it , I can do it. And why not ? We meet their requirements. We meet everything that they're asking. So , you know , to see this be like , because now I'm trans , I will not be able to follow my dream. It's. Yeah , it's disheartening , you know. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , the ban is currently being challenged at a federal appeals court.
S2: Everything's being covered by this administration. And the looks of it is just like the last being. There will never be a waiver that will be accepted. All waivers will be denied. That was an issue. The first being we would submit waivers like they stated. There was no ban. Every waiver would get denied. So even if we get purged out , this is a permanent situation. We can try to apply for this band to come back , but they're there. Irreparable harm is already going to happen.
S1: Yeah , this is quite different than the other battles.
S2: It definitely is. And we want to fight and I'm sure many of us will. But again , like I said , the irreparable harm is going to happen. Already. Many of us are going to get out , move on and find different parts of our life.
S1:
S2: I mean , I see a psychologist. Everybody should see a psychologist. It's just normal mental health that should be considered normal. And that's what I do. I mean , sometimes you just need an unbiased individual to hear you out. A place that you can be your complete self and just be able to express every emotion and every feeling. And that's what I do. I mean , I do because it's important. And it's not just me. My husband does it. My spouse does it. A lot of my best friends do this. And that's the other part. I go to my best friends. I'm not afraid to talk to them. I meet up with them and I also join my community. That is the point of a community is to come together , to know that you're not alone and express like , hey ! Together we are stronger and we have to keep that.
S1: Yeah , well , you know , community is so very important. You are involved with trans family support services in Sparta. Talk more about the work you do there and how you're continuing to advocate for the trans community.
S2: You know , I'll start with Sparta. Uh , Sparta right now is we're doing exactly what you're seeing. We're pulling all of our sources together for individuals , especially now , like pathways to follow. If you get separated or voluntarily separated and voluntarily just clear pathways to help each other back into the civilian world , because many of us don't know the civilian world. Um , so we're giving those kind of sources how to write resumes. Um , while also , you know , pushing with the , uh , lawsuits that we have , making sure those are supported as well and making sure everybody has this availability because it's going to be vital right now. Uh , and making sure that they also have pathways to have the mental health available for this to to keep positive , to keep the hope because many are going to they're going to close up , you know. Mhm.
S1: I mean so much is changing every day.
S2: Every day. It's a new new almost every week there's something new changing. So that has to be available and ready. And that's what Sparta does. Um , especially for even the future , what we call future warriors. Like , they need that help , too , because they were putting their entire lives. Many left their jobs because they were told that they were going to leave on a specific date. So they left their jobs , they left their life. They put everything in the back burners , and now they need that kind of support. And then , you know , uh , we work in hands and hands with trans family support services. I mean , that's what good nonprofits do. And , you know , not trans family. We're supporting parents who kids were going to go do this. You know , they trans youth is also getting affected with current policies. So we're just trying to work together and support each other the best way we can as a community , you know , whole picture.
S1: Well , as you stay on the path of this , this marathon , what can the community do to support and show , I would say allyship , but that sounds so transactional.
S2: A lot of people don't. It's a big it's very vital for the community because for some reason , many people think the transgender community is this vast community , that there's millions of us and there isn't. There's a very small number of us. We are literally , at least with the military , barely 1%. Right. And that's even in the outside community or barely meeting a 1%. So our voice , it can only be heard to some , you know , to a certain factor. So our allies who can speak for us to get the correct information , to tell and educate others because the fear is because people aren't educated , they don't know the real truth. So if you can speak for us , give the truth and the facts. That's the best way that you can support us being an extra voice for us. Help us amplify who we are and the truth of our existence in that we are just individuals living authentically and for , at least for the military individuals. We are just individuals who are great leaders that just want to serve. And that's what we were doing. We've been doing it for years and just , you know , support us that way and speak for us when we can't speak.
S1: I've been speaking with Paolo Bautista , active duty sailor and board member of Sparta and Trans Family Support Services. Paulo , thanks so much for being here.
S2: Oh , no. I'm grateful that you allowed me this opportunity. Thank you for inviting me.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
