The Relationship

S1: This podcast contains discussion of suicide and domestic abuse. We discuss opinions expressed by others. We at KPBS don't endorse those opinions. No one has been charged with a crime relating to Sierra Estrada's death , and we don't intend to imply that anyone should be charged or engaged in wrongdoing. Throughout this podcast , you'll hear my KPBS colleagues voice written documents related to this case , including witness statement excerpts and text messages. Julie and Brandi Estrada voiced their own written quotes.

S2: I got all your princesses.

S1: I'm at the home of Sierra's older sister , Brandi. Her daughter is four. She's playing with dolls.

S3:

S4:

S5: Ooh ! Elsa. We love Elsa. Feeling my age. Oh , my gosh. I know , it's so funny. She only likes the newer ones. She doesn't really like any of the old Disney princess movies , and I kind of get that. Oh , come on , man. Oh , Cierra loved Ariel. That was her thing. And that's why we always , like , we're like , oh , she found her Prince Charming , Eric.

S1: I'm here to talk with Brandi about Sierra's relationship with another former San Diego police officer , Eric Hansen , to give her a chance to elaborate on what's in Sierra's case file. SD PD detectives were told by multiple sources , including their own officers , that the relationship wasn't healthy. The family believes that should have prompted a more thorough investigation of Sierra's death. Her family thinks if the police had dug deeper , they would have discovered more details about how the relationship was unhealthy. Details that don't appear in the case. Records they released. I'm Katie Hyson and this is one of their own. Like the Disney prince. Eric Hansen is tall , strong jawed , dark haired , and blue eyed.

S6: We talked a lot about him.

S5: I mean , when she was , you know , trying to start a relationship with him , It was he was the academy behind her , so she graduated.

S1: Eric's time in the police academy overlapped with Sierra's. She caught his eye.

S5: He made comments to other guys about. They call her lips. That was his nickname. That she had. I mean , I don't very yes for her. And that in the beginning. And , um , she thought he was cute , I guess. And , you know , started talking to him or like , you know , a couple dates here and there. And then it became more exclusive as more time went on.

S1: Eric and Sierra dated for two and a half years before she died.

S5: He for sure like , latched onto her like really hard. And I know she helped him even like past the Academy. She helped him study. She helped him , uh , like she did so many things that , you know , went over the top for him. So I think he always was kind of attached to her.

S1: Brandi's first impression of Eric was quiet.

S5: I just thought he was like. Didn't really want to communicate. Didn't really want to get to know me or us , you know. Didn't. I don't know , I he was really short. I didn't have like a great gauge on him. He went to my wedding and he was he hung out with my husband and his groomsmen and friends and I just everybody had a weird vibe on him. And everybody had just like a I can't really get to know him and he's really closed off. But he also is just like keeping to himself.

S1: Eric graduated the academy a year after Sierra , but he was older , early 30s to her mid 20s. He was Sierra's first romantic relationship.

S5: And I'm sure he just like she my sister was just easy , you know , she was young , naive , easy , and she could be manipulated because she had no other experience. You know , the first guy she loses the V card to ? There's so many.

S1: Like , there's a glimpse of this innocence in Sierra's high school scrapbook. Her book Report on Farewell to Arms is pasted inside. Sierra wrote in her scrapbook.

S5: Miss Barkley is my favorite character.

S7: I feel like I can relate to her in many ways. The strongest connection I feel with her is how she acts with men. I don't have very much experience with guys , so I never really know what to do when I get close to a guy.

S5: So she had no experience of like , what was. Oh , that's not right. That's her red flag. That's , you know , and she would ask me things and I'd be like , um , I'm not sure. I don't think that , you know , I don't like that he does that or I don't think that that's right or that's not. You know , if she did bring it up to me because I just think it was a really tumultuous relationship. It wasn't healthy.

S1: Brandy told detectives something similar when they interviewed her.

S5: Quote , they had a very unhealthy relationship. They argued all the time.

S1: Some of Sierra's colleagues also knew the relationship was unhealthy. In his witness statement , Sierra Sergeant told detectives that he overheard Sierra talking with another officer.

S8: Quote , she was venting about Eric , saying she was pissed off about this and that. I remember hearing Kevin telling her that isn't the right way Eric should be treating her.

S1: I found Eric's number and gave him a call. I wanted to hear what he had to say about the relationship. He hung up after I explained why I was calling and didn't respond to my later messages. Without Eric and without Sierra , I'm left to piece together their relationship from the things and people that surrounded her , from case documents and text messages , and from opinions and reflections shared years later through rearview mirrors , dark with grief. I don't know much of what drew Sierra and Eric to each other , what the good moments were. Whether Eric thinks Sierra's view of him was fair , what he was thinking and feeling in the weeks before her death. I have a written summary of the detective's interview with Eric after her death. It doesn't answer those questions either. His internet presence is almost non-existent. One of the few digital marks left is a YouTube video of one moment in his policing career. It has more than 100,000 views.

S9: They don't have a blanket on this baby. You might want to cover that baby.

S1: He's standing by a stroller. The woman filming keeps telling him to cover the baby with the blanket.

S10: You guys are coughing. You.

S9: You. I am that fool. Look how far down back look.

S1: A minute later , the woman approaches a police car and Eric starts striding toward the woman.

S10: Let's go back. We gotta get out of here. You better back. Up.

S9: Up. You better not get by me.

S10: Go to jail.

S1: Eric starts to walk away.

S9:

S1: Eric pulls out his police baton. Turns around , flicks the baton out to full length , and strides back to her.

S10: Back up.

S1: His hand moves toward the phones.

S10: Look up. Why do you care ? Go away.

S1: It clatters to the ground. Policing can be a pressure cooker of a job , a type of pressure that in some ways , Eric already knew. Sierra's family says Eric did multiple tours of military service in Afghanistan before becoming a police officer. Sierra told her family that experience had deeply affected him. A flyer in Sierra's apartment encouraged officers to get counseling. Sierra told her family she intended to give it to Eric. Randy began to notice red flags in Eric's behavior.

S11: He would kind of fight.

S5: With her , like under his breath , like which I don't like , very passive aggressive , you know ? And I just say things that you're like , oh , that was a dig.

S1: Like , Sierra would go to Brandi for older sister advice.

S5: She would ask about situations with my experience of my husband in our 20s. Like , did that ever happen ? What did you do about it ? Did that make sense ? Because , um , but he didn't treat me like. That's why I have to remind her. I'm like , you know. Yeah , I mean , Jeff , my husband fought , but we never were , like , verbally , like , abusive with each other. Um , we just didn't really , like , see eye to eye on things. Or we would disagree on. You know , a lot of stuff. But I think she would always ask me like situational things like , oh , he did this. And I'm like , not okay with that. And I'm like , yeah , that doesn't make sense. You shouldn't do that or that's not a healthy relationship or that's not healthy communication like you , you know , for how young she was , she knew what was right and wrong. That's what's crazy.

S1: You know , Brandi told me their dynamic took a toll on Sierra.

S5: The way he talked to her , the things that he said , um , always yelling at her. Even though he was , like , saying , I'm communicating , but this is how I communicate. Like , and berating her. Um , that's emotional abuse. That over time , I think just probably eat away at her.

S1: When Brandi talked to detectives , she said , quote , she.

S5: Said she has to watch her tone and walk on eggshells around him. She always has to be positive because he comes home pissed off and puts it all on her shoulders.

S1: I spoke with an expert about emotional abuse. Vernon Griffin Taber has been in social work for 40 years. For the majority of those , she ran a San Diego nonprofit that serves survivors of intimate partner violence. In her experience , emotional abuse is harder to see than physical abuse , but just as damaging.

S12: When you've been physically hurt. Their marks , their bruises that verify the harm you just endured. When you experience demeaning berating more than bullying , harsh it really. If we could see what that did to us , the damage. It's horrific. Um , to belittle , to have somebody feel like they can do nothing. Well , um , and by hearing it over and over by somebody that you care about. A lot of times people start to believe and buy into that they are worthless and that harms self. Not only self esteem your spirit , your very being.

S1: Emotional abuse can be the beginning of a dangerous slide.

S12: Most of the time it will escalate. Not all cases , not all situations , but it starts to escalate from emotional abuse to physical and the physical abuse gets even more serious. So if there's choking or firearms involved now , the situation could be lethal. Firearms.

S2: Firearms. Meaning if there's , like , access to a gun. Yes. Still.

S1: Still. Brandi says she didn't worry too much about physical abuse.

S5: I knew he was in the military. I knew he had that background , you know , being in a police officer , um , he had a lot of guns , but I knew she could take care of herself. So a part of me was like , he could have been a dangerous person. It was , you know , but I knew she could take care of herself , so I didn't ever fear for her in that sense.

S1: Sarah's mom , Julie , shared a similar sentiment to detectives.

S13: Quote , he was angry a lot , but he would not hit her.

S1: Detectives asked witnesses whether Sierra or Eric had ever mentioned violence in their relationship. All of them said no. One officer said , quote.

S14: She never said anything physical. I feel like if there was , she would never say it.

S1: We found no records indicating Eric was ever charged with domestic abuse towards Sierra. As much as Sierra confided in Brandy , there was a lot her family didn't know while she was alive. A lot. They may never have known , except that Sierra wrote a list. The story continues after the break.

S5: I wanted to show you. I don't know if my mom showed you her note.

S1: After Sierra died. Brandi searched through her belongings , looking for some clue to why.

S5: I couldn't find anything I read through her book. I read through every diary , every journal , every.

S2: Got like an insight.

S5: Insight to her. I went through everything. I mean , even like books that she made notes in during college. Just like I was like , she kept everything. So I just was like , I'm gonna find something in here.

S1: Like , finally , in the notes app on Sierra's iPad , Brandi found a list Sierra wrote in the months leading up to her death. There's no title at the top , just a broken heart emoji. She wrote.

S7: He hates when I cry. He raises his voice at me. He mocks me constantly.

S1: There are dozens of items on this list that day.

S7: And Rite Aid. He made me take a pregnancy test by myself , and I threw up in the store and took the test in the bathroom , and I told him and he thought I was faking and lied and was awful to me. That night I was crying on the floor of my old apartment throwing up , and he didn't come to check on me. He stayed in bed and was angry at me for disrupting his sleep.

S1: The list ends with a date October 22nd.

S7: Admitted to cheating on me. Kissing another girl.

S1: Police took her iPad as evidence , but this note is not mentioned anywhere in the case. Records police gave her family.

S5: That note is like the relationship where he's just like a selfish guy who has to. It's me , me , me. And she just didn't. She didn't matter at all. So I think part of me that like I have a hard time with , I would back and like read it this morning and I'm just like he couldn't care anything about her at all.

S1: Sara's family lent me her laptop. It's got an aqua blue cover and rainbow keyboard. It's covered in stickers , reminders of how young she was. A fortune cookie message covers the camera , the quicker of mind than of tongue. Her text messages were only cloud synced from a brief window of time. The weeks right before and after her first big breakup with Eric , about six months before she died. Without Sierra here , they might be the best glimpse I have into what the relationship was really like for her. Her messages with Eric are heavily weighted to one side. Paragraphs of text on the right from Sierra. One word texts on the left from Eric. When she told him about sexual harassment from another male officer , he texted.

S15: Don't tell me about stuff like that. You joined this job knowing you'd be surrounded by guys.

S7: I was just being honest with you.

S15: I don't want to hear it. It just annoys me.

S1: Harassment by our male colleagues seem to be a regular part of Sierra's time in the police academy and on the force. Her family says it eventually led her to file an internal complaint. She told a few people about Eric's jealousy of her being in a male dominated field. She said he wanted her to quit her career in law enforcement. Sierra texted another female officer.

S7: I guess he's just really insecure about it. He imagines the worst , mostly because he's heard terrible stories about people cheating and stuff. It makes him not trust any female in the department , even me. But I worked really hard to get here , and I enjoy what I do , and I do good work. He still hates it.

S1: Julie told detectives Eric talked to Sierra about quitting because he was afraid she would get hurt , and he didn't know if he could have a police officer as a wife. A former CPD officer talked with me.

S16: I can still , like , hear her laugh and like , her voice. And she was like , she was so goofy , but she was a firecracker. Like you did not want to be on her bad side. A good egg is what my mom would call her. So like every day before our shift , we would all be in the locker room together. The girls and there weren't that many of us. There were like 4 or 5 on any given day. And so we'd all just kind of talk like about relationships and like what we did over the weekend. And she would just kind of say things to all of us that would like , red flags would come up.

S1: Brandi told detectives in her witness interview about Eric's jealousy.

S5: One time , he was upset because she made salsa for someone in her division as a gift. He was always jealous and would get upset at the stupidest things.

S1: Julie told detectives , quote.

S13: She had to move to her apartment herself because Eric would get jealous if she asked any of the male officers on her squad to help her.

S1: Sierra's text messages paint a lonely picture. Eric didn't want to go to her family functions. Jens. Her family says he didn't want her to go to squad parties without him. When Eric talked with investigators after Sierra's death , he told them he , quote.

S15: Tried not to take her out in public. We are like hermits together.

S1: Still , Sierra defended Eric. She texted Eric's mom.

S7: At some point , I just stopped telling my mom all the bad things because I wanted my family to see him in a good light.

S1: Brandi told detectives , quote.

S5: Her personality started to change. She would always be upset if you talked about him in a bad way and she defended him.

S1: The former officer says the same.

S16: She did get more and more closed off toward the end. I think she got tired of people telling her he was bad news. He wasn't good for her because she wanted to see the best in him.

S1: Over and over. Sierra texted people different versions of I'm not sure how much more I can take , but she also texted about her reasons for staying. Every now and then he did do sweet things. Only another cop would understand the realities of the job. She worried he'd move on and she'd be alone forever. One officer told detectives.

S14: She knew he had cheated on her and she was trying to work past that. He told her he was going to change. She was very in love with him. Yes. Infatuated.

S1: Sierra listed Eric as her emergency contact with the police department. Her sergeant told detectives. She said it was because she believed she was going to marry him. Sometimes Sierra blamed herself. She texted Eric's mom.

S7: He's not always wrong. There are times when I overreact , and he's right. I just wish I was the woman that made him want to be a better man.

S1: Verna , the social worker , says many times if there is emotional abuse , even the survivor doesn't recognize it.

S12: They tend to blame themselves. Initially , if I had only done this better. I do know he likes things cooked this way. I do know when he gets home he's tired and so the lashing out , they start to take responsibility for which is not their responsibility.

S1: The former officer says most women she knows have been in a relationship with a similar dynamic to Eric and Sierra's , but it's not talked about as abuse.

S16: I feel like people don't see it as an abusive relationship. I even had this conversation with Sierra of like , how many domestic violence calls do we go to ? And like , they'll tell you the warning signs of like what their partner did prior to like the physical stuff. And I remember telling her , like , you know , these are red flags. You see the red flags ? You talk to people every single day about these red flags.

S1: Again , we found no record that Erik ever physically abused Sierra. The people Sierra confided in and encouraged her to leave. Told her so many versions of you need someone who will make you their priority.

S16: Every time she talked about him , I would just. I always would hope that they would break up. You need to break up with this guy. Like you need to get away from him. And then it just never happened. And it was it was hard because it's like you can't force somebody to do something.

S1: Her texts are filled with this tension. Leave or stay ? Leave and face unknown hurt or stay with the hurt she knew. She texted Eric's mom.

S7: I've been crying a lot the past few days , thinking about him and the idea of losing him , but also the way he treats me. I get sad when I watch TV shows or movies and see how sweet some boyfriends can be to their girlfriends. And I know that's TV and most of it is fake and scripted. But I get sad thinking about how Eric never treats me like that. I don't need to be treated like a princess , but I want to feel loved instead. I just feel alone.

S1: Her family says police officers acknowledged that Eric didn't treat Sierra well in witness statements. Some officers said they tried to get her to leave him , quote.

S14: A couple of squad mates , and I decided to talk to her. She told us it was her first everything. She was really trying hard with this relationship. We tried to have a talk with her a month ago. We told her she was way too smart and beautiful. We told her not to put up with this guy's crap.

S1: But the family says one detective said something to them that has lodged in their minds and rattled around for seven years.

S2: Being an asshole boyfriend isn't.

S5: There's no crime for that.

S1: That response has rattled around in my mind too. What is the line between an asshole boyfriend and an abusive boyfriend ? Does that line matter to the police when it leaves no marks ? I asked SPD if they had any protocols or procedures for responding to emotional abuse , both by their employees and by members of the public. Spokesperson Ashley Nichols said , quote , when it comes to the inner workings of a personal relationship , it's just that personal. Unless something criminal occurs or issues arise while the officers are on duty , the department as an employer does not intervene. Eric and Sierra began a cycle of breaking up and making up in May of 2017. Witness statements conveyed it to detectives and Sierra's locker room friends heard about it.

S16: Every time they did break up , I was like , oh , thank God. It was like a relief. And then they would get back together.

S1: And her family describes the relationship as a roller coaster ride.

S5: They would break up and make up , break up and make up like a few times. So like , she knew. And that's what kills me is like when you read that little note , she knew he was not a good person. She knew , like , okay , he's not meeting this. We're not we don't agree on that. We're like very level headed thinking. But it's something would keep her just like in the realm.

S1: And like Verna says , a cycle of making up and breaking up is common in abusive relationships. Brandi thinks part of that , something that kept Sierra on the roller coaster ride with Eric , was their beagle. Trevor.

S5: The dog they bought together is the one that , like , I wish they wouldn't have done that because it just kept them attached.

S1: Trevor wasn't the dog's here. I had when she started dating Erik. Then Sarah had a dachshund named Toby , but her family says Eric didn't like Toby , and he convinced her to give him up for a better dog , even during their breakups. Eric and Sierra shared custody of Trevor , took turns watching him when they weren't on shift.

S5: Sharing the dog and like they would drop it off at each other's apartments. I'm like , that kept you so him , so connected to her and him like trying to get back into her life.

S1: Because of Trevor. Sierra gave Eric a key to her new apartment.

S5: Two weeks before New Year's. Like December 16th. Around that time , 17th ish , she told my mom she ended things with him. She said. We're not healthy. We're not a good. We just fight. We're we're not in a good place really , really bad. And she told my mom , like , I know I deserve better. So she was like , really clear thinking.

S1: They broke up. But Eric still had a key. And a week later , he used it. Sierra told her family Eric was in her apartment when she got home from work. He brought her Christmas gifts and tried to rekindle things. Family members told detectives about this surprise visit in their witness statements.

S5: I said , that's so bad. Like , for him to , like , have access like that because it's like.

S2: She wasn't expecting.

S5: She wasn't expecting him. She was. Or she was just expecting him to get the dog and go.

S1: Sierra decided to give it another shot. She rode briefly the upswing of the roller coaster. It was the last week of her life.

S5: She had so much like optimism and so much like. Like she was living for the future. And that's why I think so. It's so hard for me to , like , think she could do that ? Because , I mean , even if you were to walk into her apartment , you'd see , like , so much life , so much like she had groceries. She had a full tank of gas in her car. She had her schedule. She had the dog. She had. She wasn't like to me preparing for something like that. Thinking about doing something like that. Like there was no signs for that. In my opinion.

S1: That meaning suicide. Every witness in Sierra's case file who was asked said the same thing. That Sierra had never shown any signs of being suicidal before that night.

S5: She just was not ever. Never brought things up like that. But I do know that that relationship kind of tore her down. It really , like , dimmed her light , made her a different person. May her self-esteem went from here to here. Like just the way that he treated her. He basically.

S2: I just noticed. That's fine. Yeah , yeah. An incredible array. A great balance , actually.

S5: Great balance. He loves to do this.

S1: Behind Brandi. Her daughter has arranged the Princess dolls on the edge of the chair back. Perfectly balanced. One knock could tip them. Either way , Brandi feels this way about what happened to Sierra. Her mother and sister , Cheyenne , are adamant that Sierra didn't kill herself.

S17: There's too many factors that point to where it's not suicide. There's just too many red flags where you're. I'm just never going to believe that she killed herself.

S1: We'll go through these flags in later episodes. Brandy , like her father and brother , feels 50/50 on whether it was suicide or homicide. To them , everything seems to point both ways , and neither way. Both situations feel both believable and unbelievable , and they don't feel the police investigated thoroughly enough , gave them enough evidence to have closure. Either way , everyone in the family does agree on one thing. If the how was suicide , the why was her relationship with Eric ? That conviction eventually drove them to file a legal claim , holding the police department responsible for failing to , quote , protect Sierra Estrada from Officer Eric Hansen , who engaged in , caused , directed , and whose actions ultimately resulted in the death of the Sierra Estrada. That legal claim never made it to court. We'll get into why and a later episode.

S5: She followed in my footsteps on a lot of stuff , and then this was like the only thing that I just , like , couldn't protect her from was this relationship. Oh.

S2: So I know. I'm sorry.

S5: It's okay.

S1: On her last night alive , Sierra went to the New Year's Eve party with Eric. She got ready at her sister's house. Brandi knew Ciara would be drinking that night , a rare thing for her. Brandy says when Sierra did drink with Eric , it wasn't good.

S5: I kept trying to encourage her to , like , not fight. Don't start any fights. Don't start any arguments. Because once alcohol is involved , that's what that's what their problem was. They would fight , fight , fight. Alcohol was involved and then it took it to an unsafe level.

S1: At the party. The roller coaster careened down again.

S13: She spoke to me that night , for Christ's sake. I knew her state of mind because she was really. She basically had had it with him at 10:00.

S18: They're happy. How is she ? Dead. Two hours later.

S1: That's next time on one of their own. If you or someone you know have thoughts of suicide or need emotional support , please call or text 988. If you or someone you know are experiencing domestic abuse , please call 1-800-799-7233 or text start to 88788. Help is available 24 over seven. One of their own is produced by me , Katie Hyson and edited by David Washburn , with support from Elizabeth Haynes. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski. Additional voices for this episode by Julia Dixon Evans , Scott Rodd , Tami Murga , and Andrew Dyer.