S1: It's time for KPBS Midday Edition. A leading Israeli American scholar considers the question of genocide in Gaza in his new book. I'm Andrew Bracken in for Jade Heinemann with conversations that keep you informed , inspired and make you think. Today we hear from Omer partof about his latest book , Israel What Went Wrong ? He reflects on his own upbringing in Israel and how his experiences there shaped his thoughts on Zionism today. Plus , we talked to a local nonprofit about the work they're doing in Gaza and the West Bank. That's ahead on Midday Edition. Since the war between Israel and Hamas began in 2023 , there have been many debates over the use of the term genocide in describing Israeli military actions in the Gaza Strip. Omer Bator is an Israeli born historian and Holocaust and genocide professor at Brown University. His latest book , Israel What Went Wrong , asks profound questions about his homeland , tracing the transformation of Zionism as a national ideology , all while weighing the question of genocide in Gaza. And Professor Barta will be speaking at UC San Diego tonight. Professor , welcome to Midday Edition.
S2: Thank you so much for having me.
S1: Great to have you here. So before we talk about the book , I want to first , you know , turn to your own upbringing in Israel. You've said before that you grew up in a Zionist household.
S2: Um , I was born in the mid 50s , but the truth of the matter is that people of my generation born in Israel didn't really think of themselves as Zionists or not even as Jewish. We were Israelis and we took everything for granted. We were born there. We were the first generation to be born after the state was founded. And since we did not see too many Palestinians around and the place was relatively empty , we felt that we were the first generation of a new state and everything was taken for granted. And it took a long time for people like me and others that I know to realize that we were born into a state that , only a few years earlier , had expelled most of the Palestinian population from the very areas in which we were growing up. There were ruins of villages. There were so-called abandoned houses around us , but we had no real knowledge of what happened there and no language or terminology to refer to it. So it was a slow process of finding out who you were and what was there just before you were born.
S1: And how did that relationship begin to change for you ? When did you start ? You know , I don't know , raising those questions that that drew you to your work today.
S2: It took a while. But , you know , there was an interesting moment for me. I was in the early 2000. I started researching my mother's hometown , and my mother came from a town that was in Poland when she was there and is now in Ukraine , because the borders of that part of the world have also changed. And when I went there , it's in an area that is now west. Ukraine used to be East Galicia. There were remnants of Jewish civilization there. There were shells of synagogues that were abandoned cemeteries. There were mass graves , unmarked , but no one there knew anything about it. It had become a purely Ukrainian area. Children were herding their goats on cemeteries , on Jewish cemeteries , without knowing what they were. And that sort of took me back to my childhood and to thinking , what was it that we were doing as children , playing in these abandoned houses , cops and robbers ? What were all these cacti , fences , sabre fences , as we call them , that had marked Palestinian villages ? Um , so I started thinking about these two erasures , the erasure of Jewish civilization in Eastern Europe and the erasure of Palestinian civilization in Israel , where I had grown up.
S1: And then you also served in the IDF , the Israel Defense Forces , you know , as part of mandatory service there. It's an experience you write about in the book. How did your time in the military shape you and and your life's work ? Yeah.
S2: So I served four years and the IDF , I served in the West Bank. I served close to a year around Gaza. Um , much of the time , you know , I was just training. I was a combat soldier. But there were moments at which , uh , it sort of came to me that I was actually an occupying soldier. And I describe in the book , uh , patrolling the northern Sinai , Egyptian city of Arish and feeling that the inhabitants were sort of looking at us Behind the shuttered windows and having this distinct feeling that I was in the wrong place , that I had no idea what I was doing there. It was not articulate. I was very young. Um , but I did , even before Army service. I , you know , in my last two years in high school , we used to demonstrate against the occupation. The occupation had just begun. It began in 67. And we are talking about 1970 , 71 , 72 , 72. I was already in the Army. Um , and so I had some kind of political awareness , but it was pretty vague and we didn't really understand much. Um , things clarified for me much more a few years later with the outbreak of the First Intifada , and it was the the Palestinian uprising in late 1987. And it was then , uh , when I had already had more education and it spent a long time overseas. Started seeing things quite clearly.
S1: And so you mentioned a few different , you know , really key historical moments there over over the decades and over your life in Israel. And after you left , um , and you recently told The New Yorker the first thing that came to your mind after learning of the attacks on October 7th in 2023 was was another date in Israeli history. And that was October 6th , 1973 , the start of the Yom Kippur War. Tell us more about that connection for you. Yes.
S2: Yes. It's true. It really hit me. Um , you know , on October 6th , 1973 , I was a soldier , and the war came to us through a transistor radio. We didn't actually hear about it directly from our commanders , but from the radio , because everyone was totally shocked and unprepared for that war. And the similarity is not only that it was shocking and surprising , but also that in both cases , the Egyptian and Syrian attack on Israel in 1973 and the Hamas attack of October 7th , 2023. In both cases , Israel had developed a particular what was called a conception of how to deal with the enemy , and before 1973 , Israel was quite arrogant and proud of itself , because in 67 it had defeated three Arab armies the Egyptian , the Jordanian and the Syrian in six days. It's called the Six-Day War. And this arrogance led , of course , to total lack of preparation for what was coming and to an unwillingness by Israel , despite offers from Egypt in the intervening years for a territorial compromise , that is , that Israel would hand back the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt for peace. Israel did that , but it did it only after the war and after thousands of people , 3000 Israelis and far larger numbers of Egyptians died in a useless war. And in October 7th , 2023 , there was also a conception , and it was something that Benjamin Netanyahu , the Israeli prime minister , was selling to the public and to the world that Israel could manage the occupation , though there was no need for any political reconciliation between Israel and the Palestinians. We can just manage it. And every once in a while , as they said in Israel , we would mow the lawn that is just go and bomb Gaza until they start firing rockets here and there. And that exploded , of course , in everybody's face on October 7th , when thousands of Hamas militants crossed that multi-billion security fence and murdered hundreds of Israeli civilians. So in that sense , this sense , this this arrogance , this lack of willingness to give up something in order to find a political compromise , to resolve an issue that would not go away.
S1:
S2: Look , I mean , I distinguish between two things what Hamas did on October 7th. It wasn't only Hamas , it's also Islamic Jihad and other people who just crossed over in the wake of that thought was a war crime and was a crime against humanity. Hundreds of civilians were killed , including children , women , old people. There are reported cases of rape and other abuse , and 251 people were taken hostage. All of these things are crimes. Obviously , it does not mean that Palestinians have no right to resist Israeli occupation. What you don't have a right to do is to commit atrocities. Israel , in turn , claim that its assault on Gaza was a defensive measure because it had been attacked. So it was it presented it as a war of defense. It was a bit complicated to say that because Gaza is officially , actually occupied territory. So , um , that's legally it's a bit tortuous to call it a war of defense. But even if it is a war of defense , which is the only one that is legal under international law. It does not give you the right to carry out war crimes , crimes against humanity. And what eventually became was an attempted ethnic cleansing that deteriorated into a genocidal operation in Gaza.
S1: And I want to talk more about that. About a month after those attacks , on October 7th , 2023 , you wrote an essay. It was the first essay for The New York Times where you argue what was happening in Gaza was not yet genocide , but that it could be heading there.
S2: Um , the signs were quite clear by the time my article came out , I think on November 10th , 2023. So about a month after the Israeli started bombing and then the land invasion of Gaza , over 10,000 people had died , the majority of them civilians , as we now know. And there appear to be systematic , deliberate destruction of housing , of infrastructure and so forth. Um , so there was very good evidence that there were war crimes , that is , disproportionate use of force and crimes against humanity , meaning , uh , killing large numbers of civilians. Um , to me , it appeared because the majority of the population in Gaza are Palestinians , most of them descendants of people who were expelled from Israel in 1948. Uh , that what Israel was attempting to do was to make Gaza uninhabitable for its population that is ethnically cleansed. This is what I was trying to warn about. The pattern of operations appear to indicate it , because the IDF was moving from the north to the south and constantly pushing the population away from where it was living to the south of the Egyptian border. Um , so this is why I thought , uh , the US has to step in now. I also called on , um , Holocaust historians on on institutions such as the US Holocaust Memorial Museum and the other shame in Jerusalem to condemn this and to call for a stop , which they didn't do then and still haven't done.
S1: So then you follow up that essay for the Times in later in 2025 , which you solidified your position and that what you were seeing in Gaza was , in fact genocide. What was the turning point then for you ? Yeah.
S2: So in fact , in between the two articles in the New York Times , I published another piece in The Guardian in August 2024. And that article was based on what I had seen happening , especially in May 2024. That was when the IDF , as it was moving south in the Gaza Strip , reached Rafah , which is the southernmost city of Gaza. Before the war , there were about a quarter of a million people living there. By the time the IDF reached , there were about a million people there that is half the population of Gaza , most of them displaced by the IDF , which was saying , leave your homes for your own safety and move south. And so they did. And then their homes were demolished. So in in in the spring of 2024 , in May , June , um , I started looking at the pattern of operations. And one has to understand that Israel was issuing two types of statements. One type was that , uh , Israel is trying to , um , do two things. One is to destroy Hamas , and the second is to release the hostages. There was some contradiction between the two goals , but as such it appeared relatively reasonable. But there were also a series of statements that were made right after October 7th , on October 7th , and in the following few days that had a genocidal content and appeared to be incitement statements that said , we're going to flatten Gaza. They'll have no water , they'll have no food , they'll have no energy. They are human animals and they'll be treated as such. There are no uninvolved people. Remember what I'm elected unto you and so forth. Uh , and by May of 24 it appeared that this was actually the intent , not the official statement of the war goals , but those what were called irresponsible statements were actually what the IDF was trying to do. And so when I wrote that piece in August of 2024 , I described all of that. And I said to me , it appears that this is a genocidal operation , so that by July the following year , when the New York Times piece came out , unlike the previous summer , my position and I was not the first to call it , though there were people who said that before me. But by the summer of 25 , there was generally a consensus among scholars of genocide and experts in international law , including some very conservative people , that what Israel was engaged in and had been engaged in for two years was indeed a genocide.
S1: We'll continue with my conversation with Professor Omar Bator after the break. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. Stay tuned. Welcome back. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Andrew Bracken in for Jade Hindman. We're continuing our conversation with Professor Omer Bator , historian and Holocaust and genocide studies professor at Brown University. His latest book is called Israel What Went Wrong ? Professor Bator , let's get into definitions here because there are legal , moral , and historical dimensions to it.
S2: Since that term was coined. People have used it also as a term of outrage. So if you see something terrible happening , a lot of people are being killed. You say it must be genocide. That's not the way you define genocide. You also don't define genocide by saying that it looks like the Holocaust. You define genocide according to the UN convention. The definition in the convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. Uh , that's the only definition that matters under international law. And that definition says the genocide are acts carried out with the intent to destroy a particular group. Could be an ethnic or national religious or racial group , in whole or in part as such. So it has to do with your attempt to destroy a group , not simply killing large numbers of people. And you have to show that there's an intent to do that and that that intent is being implemented. That's the definition that I use and that all international lawyers use , of course. And that's the definition that the International Court of Justice is using as it now is adjudicating whether what Israel did in Gaza was genocide or not.
S1: You mentioned the Holocaust there , and I think it's hard to have a conversation about genocide without touching on it. I mean.
S2: So on the one hand , um , um , I would say that there are in Israel , certainly also in many Jewish communities around the world , if you say that a country and certainly that Israel is engaged in genocide , uh , people immediately cast their mind back to the Holocaust. And the Holocaust was , of course , a genocide. It was the largest genocide in the modern era. Uh , and they say , well , it doesn't look like the Holocaust and the Holocaust. There were , um , gas chambers. Um. Um , it was a continent wide event. 6 million Jews were murdered. In fact , many more millions were murdered by the Nazis as well. And so there were shooting pits. And so that that doesn't look like , uh , other genocides , let's say , like what happened in Gaza. So , uh , the Holocaust in that sense , serves as a kind of filter through which people look at events and they say it can't be genocide. And therefore the use of the term genocide is political. It's not really juridical or analytical , it's just an attempt to cast blame on Israel. There is an opposite side to that , which is that in Israel , uh , because the Holocaust has come to play such a huge role , any and any took time. It's only from the 1980s that the Holocaust has started playing a role as a kind of glue for Israeli society , and that every threat to Israel is perceived as an existential genocidal threat. Because of that , there is an immediate reflex to describe any attack on Israel as a potential holocaust , so that immediately after October 7th and to this day , the Israeli media speaks about Hamas as Nazis. It speaks about the attack of October 7th as akin to the Holocaust , which , again , is completely inaccurate. And I'm certainly not here to defend Hamas , but Hamas and not Nazis. Something else. And if your enemy are Nazis , then what do you do about them ? And if there are no uninvolved people there and they're all supporting a Nazi organization , then you have license to entirely obliterate them. And no matter what international law says , the memory of the Holocaust plays a role in legitimizing , um , um , licensing violence. And so in that sense , the Holocaust plays a huge role in both sides of this debate.
S1: You know , yesterday you spoke at San Diego State. Tonight you'll be speaking at UC San Diego.
S2: So I can't say that I have a good handle on the community in San Diego , but I would say that at least yesterday , many people came to the talk. There was a great deal of interest. There was a very long conversation with the audience. There were faculty members. There were students. I think there were people from the public , as far as I could tell. People stood around quite a while after the talk and the sort of end of the FOMO event. And I think my impression is that people felt that I was helping them understand the very complex issue about which many people feel uncomfortable , feel. Um , they both don't know enough and that , um , tempers can run pretty high on that. And I try to talk about these issues in as detached and analytical way as I can , because I know for everyone , including for myself , this can be a very emotional issue , and I think we need to discuss it in a more reasonable , open , careful manner and to think carefully about our terms and to think , what is the goal of this discussion ? Are we trying to understand something , or is it more about , you know , casting blame on each other.
S1: So in in the book , you try to answer what went wrong.
S2: I spent the first half of my life in Israel. I used to go there a lot. Most recently , I've gone a bit less. Um , I have friends there , I have family there , I have grandchildren there. So I certainly care a great deal about that country. Um , and the country is is there to stay ? It's not going anywhere. The question is , what direction , uh , is it taking ? I think there is a way to correct matters , but as I've been saying , I think that Zionism as it became a state ideology increasingly warped what that country is about. It has become an ideology that is militaristic , expansionist , increasingly racist , violent , messianic by now , which it was not at all when I was growing up and now has been used to justify genocide. So I don't think that Israel can hold on to Zionism as a state ideology , and I don't think it will be able anymore to rely on the memory of the Holocaust to justify its actions , because you can't justify genocide with genocide. So how can it repair itself ? It can repair itself only by finding a way for the 7 million Jews who live between the river and the sea , to share that land with the 7 million Palestinians who live between the river and the sea. These are two groups that are living side by side , often in mixed cities , and they have to find a way to live together. And all the dreams of removing one group so as to have that space for your own and not to have them in your face , are the main cause of the violence , not only in Israel , but the turmoil in the entire region. And one has to understand when when Hamas launched that attack , its leaders , who are now all dead. What they wanted to do was to analyze the conflict. They felt that the Palestinian issue is being thrown under the rug , and although they are dead , they succeeded and now the entire region is in turmoil. We know the US is now engaged in Iran. It's all part of the same story. And one has to go back to the core , to the fundamental cause of this , and that is to find a way for the 14 million who live between the river and the sea to share that space. There's not enough internal dynamic to do that , not among Israelis , Jewish Israelis and not among Palestinians. So the pressure for this has to come from the outside. And the main force that can do that is the United States. It is not done that. And as long as it doesn't , it is allowing Israel to wreak more and more havoc on the region as a whole.
S1: I've been speaking with Professor Omer Bator , historian and professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Brown University. Professor Berkoff will be speaking at UC San Diego tonight at Hochul Auditorium at 5 p.m.. And , professor , thank you so much for your time and your insight today.
S2: Thank you very much for this conversation.
S1: You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. We're back with more after the break. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition. I'm Andrew Bracken in for Jade Hindman. It's been a little over six months since another cease fire went into effect between Israel and Hamas. The United Nations estimates that the war displaced almost 90% of Gaza's population. Today , the need for life saving aid across the Gaza Strip and the West Bank remains urgent. And my next guest has done a lot of work coordinating humanitarian efforts there. George Capacious works with Global Communities , a nonprofit based out of San Diego. But he works in Ramallah , a city in the West Bank. But today , George joins me in studio to talk about his work in the region. And welcome to the show.
S3: Thank you for having me.
S1: Thank you for being here today.
S3: So thank you.
S1: Tell us about what brings you to San Diego. Normally your work is is much further away. Global communities is headquartered here. Tell us about. It.
S3: It. Yeah.
S4: So Global Communities is a 501 C three organization that operates in more than 30 countries across the globe. One of them is Palestine. We work in West Bank and in East Jerusalem. We've been working there since 1994. I've been with the organization for a little over nine years and never been to the US office , so this trip was a part of it to see the team and as well to do some fundraising and some business development efforts to support more interventions for people , whether it was in Gaza or in the West Bank.
S3: And yeah.
S1: Can you paint a little picture for us for what the West Bank and Gaza looks like today and how it's changed over the past , what , three years or so now at this.
S3:
S4: So no civil infrastructure. So that will add another burden on what type of support to be able to give people there. Because we sometimes forget that people don't only need food and shelter , but there's a lot of other interventions that they need to have , whether it was related to protection , whether it was related to education , whether that was related to , Um , wash interventions that could support them to be able not only to start the early recovery , but at least to stabilize during these tumultuous days. And we can't forget the economical situation impact which we as GC have been trying since the war. The last war started is to create income generating ventures for people in Gaza and Gaza. So sometimes I say because it's the Arabic way of saying it. But yeah , working in Gaza has been very important to do that , to try to create some kind of an income that people could depend on to maintain any sort of fabric out there to support their communities. And the West Bank. The situation is a little bit different , but at the same time we have a lot of displacement that is happening specifically in the North. The economic situation is really bad where there is a lot of restrictions on people ability to find jobs. Youth are having a lot of issues as well , and finding jobs , which creates as well a big burden on the families. And in addition to that as well , with the current restrictions that we're having with everything related to Palestine. And the regional political situation has have been massively impacting us back home.
S1: I mean , you kind of mentioned it there. It's like the loss of there's just so much. So.
S3: So.
S1: Much need there. And you mentioned just some of the the economic impacts. Yeah. The loss of work. So you know , talk about you know , more about the aid work and what what the needs are there specifically because it's also just everyday life. Right. Yeah. I mean yeah.
S3: I mean for.
S4: Global communities , we have tried to work at the nexus of providing a humanitarian assistance , but at the same time as well providing some economic development work. So what we do is that sometimes we work with the very small , small and medium enterprises where we provide them with the grounds to be able to support them , whether in increasing their production , uh , purchase for them any new equipment that would support them and increasing that production , and at the same time as well to decrease the operational cost on them and whatever produce that they produce , whether that was in the agriculture , uh , in creating protein bars , the sweets , even in services to be able to increase that , to support them , to create that income as well. We try through supporting those businesses is to create a job market where we have skilled and unskilled labor , whether that was as daily workers or whether that was as a part time or long term employment. Just to give you an example for what we did in Gaza with a cooperative of 50 women , what they do is that they prepare the different sweets. We call it Kakuma mall , which is basically with dates , and it has a lot of protein , and there is the material to be able to do that. But they didn't have the equipment. One of the major equipment that they would need is the mixers. And unfortunately there's no mixers inside of Gaza. So what we did is that we brought these cement mixers , we filled them with trampoline , and they started using those as their cooking mixers. And what we did as well , They hired youth around 15 to 20 youth to be their daily sales workers. So they take the biscuits or the Mahmoud. They go to the refugee camps , they sell it , and then they bring back the money to the cooperative. So this is the type of the things we're doing in Gaza , for example , in West Bank and West Bank , Global Community is focusing mainly on three major sectors. We're focusing on the furniture sector at the footwear and leather sector , and at the handicraft sector. Under the handicrafts , we have been able to support a glassmaking business. They were depending a lot on tourism , but unfortunately , as you know , tourism since October the 7th have went way down. So what we did is that we provided them with solar panels where they actually used that to create the energy needed , you know , for heating the glass , cutting the glass. And it decreased a lot on their production cost. So what they did is they focused more in investing their money and engaging in different events and forums across the globe , like just recently they were in the UK under Prince Charles initiative to support businesses in the Middle East , and through that , when they presented the work that they do and they were able to create a new market for them. So these are the kind of opportunities we try to find in the different windows to ensure that we're doing what we can to sustain people during these days.
S1: And it sounds like , I mean , you're navigating all these different pieces from all across the world. You know , in some cases here. And I'm wondering obviously , that brings up challenges , much less when there's war , there's conflict , there's blockades. Talk about some of the challenges you faced getting aid into the region. Yeah.
S3: Yeah.
S4: Well , as well as a Palestinian working in Palestine and has staff working inside of Gaza , I can tell you that the process is easy. I mean , we as a humanitarian aid workers , sometimes we say we need so much psychosocial support to be able to deliver the work with the beneficiaries because of what we see every. Day.
S3: Day. Right.
S4: Right. I mean , the challenges just go beyond the day to day. Like , for example , if you want to get a truck and sometimes it takes us months between the coordination , whether it was at the Israeli side or whether it was at the time when Rafah was open. The Rafah crossing at the Egyptian side , getting that material and getting it approved , ensuring that it aligns with whatever requirements they have for that day. Because the requirements keep changing every day and you need to ensure you're following that. And when I say requirements such as , for example , the size of the pallet , it needs to be excellent meters. If it was one centimeter more , the whole truck would be sent back. So you have all these things that you need to take into consideration. This is you're not even at the border. You're just still finalizing all that. And this is not only time consuming but as well heavily consuming on the budgets. Hence you have as well to work with the donors to try to make it clear for them why it's becoming more expensive and why we need to do that to be able to enter the commodities. And then you have the other part , which is within Gaza. Gaza ? Where is where to distribute , how to distribute , ensuring that your. Being.
S3: Being.
S1: Gets to the right people. Right.
S4: Vetting the people. Ensuring it's getting to the right people. How they're going to get , what type of benefit they're getting from it. And we always know whatever we do , we're not covering like the minimum bases. But eventually what we try to do , even with our stuff inside of Gaza , is that at least we're trying to do something , and at least we're trying to help people , quote unquote , survive until things get better. But yeah , challenges are.
S3: Across the board. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. I mean , you mentioned a little of this , just you're navigating all these logistics , but at the same time , you know , just the , the mental toll and you and all your colleagues are living through this as well. I don't know. Talk more about how you know , how you're handling that. Just the psychological impact , you know , while doing this work that's very important and very taxing and exacting.
S4: Describing and specifically as someone that has a one year old one and a half year old child. So this is by.
S3: Itself a whole nother.
S4: Another layer of you go to work. You try to do what you're trying to do. You hear all the stories about people in Gaza. And then I come back home and I see my daughter , and.
S3: I'm like , you still got to be a dad to. I need to be a dad. Yeah.
S4: So , yeah , it's a very , very hard. On top of that , we as a global community , since the escalations started back in 2023 , we lost two staffers. So that was what by itself was as well. And a big challenge now for us as well as a global community is by us. But as the NGO and the NGO community itself , we lost a lot of humanitarian aid workers who are trying to.
S3: Do their job.
S4: What we tried to do as well , we tried to be for each other. So sometimes you have some of the distributors in Gaza just calling us and just venting , and we tell them we're here to listen , just vent , say whatever you want to say , and we're just listening. We're not gonna even try to give you a solution. Just talk. So sometimes that helps. And at the same time as well. Global communities has been very as well important in the way that they have been supporting the staff on the ground , whether we provide them with specific paradigms when we can or whether we can get them some of the items on the market because of the market. The inflation got to 300% plus. So the items have become very expensive. So what we do as well , we try to get whatever we can from the market to help them and their families and their extended families , because now one of our employees could be hosting between 20 to 40 people , because everybody is trying to find a place to be able to stay at and to support. So we try to communicate , have open dialogues and just try to do whatever we can just to ease the situation on them to the maximum possible with all the challenges.
S3: That we have.
S1:
S3:
S4: Been able to work at a different intersections. As I mentioned to you , we have been working with the small micro-enterprises. We have been providing food parcels , we have been providing hot meals , we have been providing protein bars for children. So you could say overall , we have reached more than 1.6 million people within the Gaza Strip And the global communities. As an organization , we have been in Gaza since 1994. So we have as well the trust with the community that we're not just coming in as an organization trying to do the work , but know we understand the challenges and the obstacles that we had prior from the war happening. Because.
S3: Because.
S4: We've lived so many wars supporting people in Gaza. So , yeah , we have been able to reach to quite a large number of people during our programming.
S1: And , you know , you've seen coordinated efforts across the world to bring more aid there to the region. How have you felt or seen that support outside of.
S3: Yeah , I.
S4: Mean , we always say we wish it's. More.
S3: More.
S4: Like we can say that what we have is enough. We always try to be more advocate to the importance of bringing humanitarian aid and assistance , whether that was to Gaza or the West Bank. We tried to advocate through the different platforms as well that we have , specifically through the UN system. But unfortunately , there's always that pushback that we need to struggle and we need to fight for the positions that we are in to ensure that not only we could continue to deliver aid , but we could as well maintain our presence. So I can say it's the best , but we're trying as much as possible to keep pushing the envelope and to keep pushing towards a better humanitarian system and a better humanitarian mechanisms put in place that could support us to deliver because we have the capacity , we just need to have the space to be able to use that capacity. And this is what we try to keep advocating for.
S1:
S4: So I think that we could see that one of the big hurdles that we have is the logistical process of getting the items in. And at the same time as well. One of the key issues that we as well face since the USAID cut its funding as well , having more member states and donors be able to understand the need and understand what it means to have that market inflation and the importance of increasing aid to be able to increase to a larger number of beneficiaries.
S1: And lastly , we have about kind of a minute and a half here left. I mean , what can people , the average person do to help listening here in San Diego that may want to help.
S4: Advocate for it more. And as well , any support or funding that could be received that could help us in changing the life of one person at this stage is more than we can ask for. Honestly , it's just whatever they could do , whether that with just keeping the issue alive , ensuring that everybody is hearing about the suffering that the people need to have on a daily basis , and as well to be able to support us in delivering our projects and our commitment for the different initiatives that we implement on the ground. That would be my two asks.
S1: I want to thank you so much for taking the time. I know you're you're in San Diego for just a few days before you head back on the long journey.
S3: Home , long journey.
S1: So I've been speaking with Jorge Capacious. He's the assistant country director for programs and strategic growth. He works in Gaza , in the West Bank , and he works for Global Communities , a San Diego based nonprofit. George , thanks so much for being here.
S4: Thank you for having me.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm Andrew Bracken. KPBS Midday Edition airs on KPBS FM weekdays at noon , again at 8 p.m.. You can find past episodes at KPBS or wherever you listen. Thanks again for listening. Have a great day.
