S1: Hey there , San Diego , it's time for KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. It's back to school time for much of the San Diego region. Today , we feature a roundtable with education reporters on what to expect. In recent years , the role schools play in the lives of children has been changing and expanding. Plus , we hear why San Diego schools are prioritizing middle schools this year.
S2: This is a period in students lives that's often kind of underplayed , when in reality it's a big pivot point. It's kind of like the elbow of the K-12 education system.
S1: And students return to a new cellphone policy in place here in San Diego. We take a look into that and the greater role AI is playing in classrooms. That's ahead on KPBS roundtable. Labor Day used to mark the end of summer and the start of a new school year , but that school calendar has been moving earlier and earlier into summer. This week marked the first day of school for tens of thousands of kids across San Diego. With the promise of the new school year also come challenges for local schools and their students , from ongoing enrollment declines to how to navigate our age of smartphones and AI. Joining me to delve more into all those details are three top education reporters in our region. Katie Anastas is KPBS education reporter. Jacob McWhinney is also here. He's the education reporter with the Voice of San Diego. And the newest addition to our education roundtable squad here is Gemma Stephenson. She covers K-12 education for the San Diego Union Tribune. I want to welcome each of you here to roundtable. And what's been a pretty eventful week in your beat. Gemma , I want to start with you. You know , this was your first year covering the start of the school year here in San Diego.
S3: It was kind of the San Diego Unified kind of. Administrators kind of went out to a middle school , and I thought that was super fun , just because I feel like a lot of times in education , we kind of don't talk about middle school as much. Like we talk a lot about the foundations , elementary school level and the high school getting ready for college or whatever students want to do after. But it was kind of nice to see like a focus on middle school , and it was nice to see the kids come back. Um , it was always super fun because there were a couple of girls who , you know , just ran up to each other and hugged each other as soon as they saw each other , and that was really cute.
S1: Well , before we got going , we were kind of even reminiscing ourselves about that sort of , you know , first day of school anticipation and the excitement that comes with it. Katie , you know , Gemma was talking there about this focus on middle school. And this is an intentional from Fabi , who's now the new permanent superintendent for San Diego Unified. She was a kind of an interim basis last school year. Right. So you also covered the first day of school , and you went to Bell Middle School and you spoke with Fabi there.
S4: And she says the data really points to this group of kids deserving some extra attention. She said that their scores tend to dip in sixth grade , kind of right after that transition from elementary school to middle school. And then they dip again in that eighth to ninth grade transition period when you're moving to high school. So she told me that , you know , this is kind of a start of possibly kind of re-envisioning or restructuring how middle school looks in the district. And I asked her what that looks like. And she said , you know , we'll have to figure it out , get input from students and teachers and everybody. What came to mind for me is that , you know , in other districts I've covered outside of California , districts have thought about maybe we need more schools to be K-8. Maybe we need schools to be K through six and then seven through 12 , and kind of figuring out what happens at that traditional transition from elementary to middle to high school , and how can we kind of smooth over those bumps in the road.
S1: And that's really interesting because that's something yeah , I've often wondered about. I grew up in public schools in Chicago where it was K through eight , pretty much standard. But here my kids were in K through four. And then it , you know , kind of shifts from there. Jacob , you know , I'm curious your thoughts. Like I do think it's interesting this focus on middle school. I think in recent years we've heard a lot of emphasis placed on TK and that sort of like younger age group. And then I know , like you've done reporting on high school graduation and focus on , on , on high school and success there.
S2: It's kind of like the elbow of the K-12 education system , right ? And so it's very interesting to see that this is where Fabi is , is kind of taking her role as superintendent in her first permanent year as superintendent. Obviously , she came onto the job last year , shortly after , uh , former Superintendent Lamont Jackson was fired when an investigation concluded that he sexually harassed multiple staff members. And so , coming onto the scene in the midst of such chaos , she kind of was given the unenviable job of trying to steady this ship. Uh , and so now that she has her first full year , as , you know , the top dog , it'll be interesting to see where she goes when she actually has the opportunity to navigate and turn the second largest district in California in whatever direction she sees fit.
S1: And Gemma , we're talking about San Diego Unified School District. As Jacob mentioned , it's , you know , second largest in the state. It's a big deal. But there are so many other school districts in our region. And some of the focus of your reporting has been on some of those smaller districts. What do you think we commonly miss about the experience of of students in more rural communities , rather than just focusing on San Diego Unified ? Yeah.
S3: So I mean , I think like and I'm kind of talking more generally versus like a specific district here. But I think like with rural school districts , there are a lot of things that we tend just to not think about that are kind of obvious , which is like for instance , schools just being like really far apart. And like that causes like a lot of transportation concerns. Like kids spend a lot of time like on buses and like , I mean , I don't know about you guys , but if I was like six and I had to be on the school bus for like an hour , and then I had to go and learn how to add things like , I would not have been very happy. Um , and so it's stuff like that. And then also just kind of the way that , um , like funding works , like facilities cost a lot of money. And when places are kind of sparsely populated. Like the air conditioning doesn't become cheaper when there are , like , less kids in a building. Um , and then I think also just kind of like staffing , like if you're like 22 year old teacher , um , maybe you kind of start out at a rural school district , but you can't find like , housing. So you find housing closer to more of an urban center. So then you have a commute that's like an hour. And then when a job opens up , you might pick a place that's closer to where you live. And so retention can be hard. And some of these places to.
S1: Anything to out there. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. There's uh , there's been a lot of research that shows how schools have fared post-pandemic. One of the things that that I found that was really interesting was that many schools in rural areas of San Diego County have fared the worst , right ? They've had the hardest time recovering for a lot of the reasons that Gemma just really so nicely laid out. Um , you imagine when it comes to transportation , they have to spend a bigger portion of their budget on school buses because , again , it's not like you can walk down the street to the school , you know , in your neighborhood. The school is 45 minutes away. And so you need that school bus. And so there are things about rural school district budgets that are non-negotiables. And you can't easily move that funding to other places. We've seen , you know , in larger school districts like San Diego Unified , the almost complete elimination of of of transportation budgets in favor of other more kind of student facing things. And so , in addition to that , a whole other host of things , um , it makes it really , really difficult for rural schools and rural school districts to have the same sort of kind of success rate that , that more urban districts can sometimes have.
S1: You mentioned the pandemic. There was something I was kind of like holding off on. I feel like , you know , a lot of our conversations over the past couple of years on schools have , you know , started with the impacts from the pandemic. Can you talk , Katie , a little bit about what that means ? I mean , is that still an important part of the conversation looking at education today ? Because I do I feel like a lot of us are tired of hearing about the pandemic and want to move on to other things , but it seems to be an important inflection point for education.
S4: I think we definitely still think about the pandemic and how it has affected kids. I think we're starting to move away from maybe just comparing , you know , test scores from this year to test scores in 2019 , and also thinking about how the world has changed over the last five years and how that could affect a student's ability to learn. We've seen districts all over the county put out policies about how their school police are limiting how much they'll work with Ice , and now that's something that kids are thinking about. There's all of the kind of social and emotional side effects of kids being on their devices more , and schools are having to kind of reckon with that and respond to that and how they teach and , um , encourage kids to build relationships in person. So I think there are definitely a lot of effects of the pandemic that schools and teachers are still trying to address.
S1:
S2: And the bad news is that it's happening for some reasons that schools can't really control. Right. So , uh , the main reasons behind enrollment decline are these big socioeconomic ones that that cities around the country , countries around the world are all dealing with. One of these things is , is plummeting birth rates. In 2023 , for example , uh , San Diegans had about 20% fewer kids than they did a decade earlier. And again , this is something that we're seeing all over the world. This essentially means that there are just fewer kids being born to populate San Diego County schools. In addition to that , something that every San Diegan has had to deal with is also putting an extreme pressure on parents , which is the just rising cost of living. It's become extremely , extremely expensive to live in San Diego , and that's chasing a lot of working families out of the region. Ultimately , what that means is that over the past decade , San Diego County schools have lost about 27,000 students. That's about a 5% decline in overall student enrollment , and that's already had a big impact. We can see it most clearly in districts like South Bay Union , which is a district in Imperial Beach. Over the past decade , they've seen a 30% decline in students , and that's meant that they've had to close schools. They're likely they voted to close one school this year and will likely close a couple more in the coming years. And another bit of bad news is that state officials project that this this trend is only going to increase. They say that over the next two decades. So by 2044 , San Diego County schools will lose another 112,000 students. So over these three decades , San Diego County schools will have lost about 139,000 students total just to. That's a big number. And it can be kind of hard to understand exactly the the scale of , of enrollment decline that we're talking about. So I have this written down that is basically the equivalent of if the cities of Del Mar , Solana Beach , Coronado , Imperial Beach , Lemon Grove and Poway just disappeared. Well , that's that's the scale of enrollment decline that we're talking about , right ? That would mean that there would be an about 30% decline in students just over three decades , and that would inevitably lead to some really , really big funding hits , because one of the big ways that states that the state funds schools is based on attendance , and if there are fewer kids to attend schools , there's less money. So if the San Diego County lose , 30 loses 30% of students over the next , you know , 20 years , we will inevitably see a whole lot more closed. Schools will inevitably see a whole lot less funding and a whole lot less jobs for teachers.
S1: So , I mean , the picture you're painting there a lot of reasons for that downward trend. But you did mention cost of living , I think earlier , Katie , you mentioned , you know , these sort of federal factors like immigration enforcement. It is interesting , you know , just education in schools , just how it intersects with all these other different issues in our society in and around our communities.
S4: So I've seen more and more schools set up food pantries , often with Feeding San Diego's help , providing places for families to come pick up food for the week and take groceries home. And it being a trusted place where families know they can go get help. At Bell Middle School , where we were earlier this week , they have a wellness center where students can go kind of calm down and talk to a trusted adult about what's going on at home and fill this kind of counseling or therapy role. And I think those examples just kind of speak to schools , recognizing that kids need support in so many different ways , and how all of those supports feed into academic success , um , which I think is really a positive thing. I think those have always been factors and and schools were not equipped or , or ready to take that on. And now that we're seeing that it from what I hear from teachers and those those counselors , it does make a difference.
S1: Jacob , I know in the past we've talked about this sort of move towards community schools , which is sort of like a new concept , but it kind of touches on some of what , you know , Katie was saying , there is like schools expanding how they serve people and how they serve families. How else are you seeing that kind of playing out ? Yeah.
S2: So exactly what Katie is describing , that's pretty much the ethos of a community school. Um , you know , coming out of the pandemic , I think that there was a greater realization of the social and emotional needs of kids. You know , kids were dealing with a whole lot of isolation. They were dealing with a whole lot of anxiety. Um , and one of the ways that schools have have responded is by implementing these community schools programs. It's something that that the state has really emphasized by creating a whole grant program that that helps to pay for these sorts of services and that can look very different at at different schools. It's supposed to look very different at different schools. You know , part of the ethos of this is they do essentially these , these , this , this , these listening processes that allow for them to better understand exactly the needs that the kids and the community. So this is a kids and parents focused initiative. Exactly what they need sometimes. Maybe that's a food pantry , as Katie mentioned. Maybe that's , you know , after school English classes for parents or help putting together resumes. Basically , this is acknowledging that that that education is a holistic thing. And we've we've known this for a long time , but it's not necessarily something that schools have have really done a good job acknowledging or a good job of meeting. Uh , ultimately , we can see this in test scores , right ? One of the things that you learn really , really early on as an education reporter is that if you are looking at two different schools and there are very different test scores there. It's very likely that what we're looking at is different neighborhoods and different income levels. You know , I spoke to to Cody Peterson a while back. And , you know , he he often says that that a school's test scores can sometimes be a glorified Zillow score. Uh , basically telling you how much the houses in this neighborhood are worth , I think it's still very , very important to hold districts and schools accountable for , you know , ensuring that kids get an excellent education. But it's also it would be ridiculous to assume that there that these things don't have an impact. And so when these community schools initiatives are implemented , the hope is that some of these barriers that kids may face , and particularly kids in neighborhoods where there's less opportunity that some of those barriers start to get , you know , lessened for these kids. And one of the things that I'll certainly be paying attention to is that in the coming years , some of the grant programs , these statewide grant programs that have enabled districts like San Diego Unified , which now has stood up about 30 of these community schools. These grant programs are going to start to to to end. They're going to start to run out of money. And these are expensive programs. So it'll be really , really important to pay attention to whether or not the district follows through with its pledge , which is that we're going to keep these programs around. We're going to ensure that these things are still here to provide the services that kids have gotten used to.
S1: Earlier you mentioned Cody Patterson. He is on the school board right now. Yes.
S2: Yes. San Diego Unified. Um , president of the school board there. Thanks.
S1: Thanks. And then , so , you know , anything to add there , Gemma , in terms of , you know , this focus on wellness within schools and anything you've observed.
S3: I think it's something that's coming up a lot of schools. I spent some time in a community school last school year with one of my colleagues , Mara Fox , and we kind of spent some time there , and it was kind of interesting to to kind of learn more about how the actual community is being brought in. Like that school had English classes for parents. And I thought that was a really good resource for the community. And I think it's also even beyond the stuff that's kind of new. I think also , schools are also just often like the food provider for a lot of kids. It's a very reliable meal that a lot of kids can access. Even beyond kind of these feeding San Diego or kind of other ways for students to take food home. But it's also just a reliable way for students to kind of have a level of wellness.
S1: We continue our education roundtable just after the break. You're listening to KPBS roundtable. You're listening to KPBS roundtable , I'm Andrew Bracken. We're talking about San Diego schools. As a new school year gets underway for many local districts this week. On Thursday , I spoke to education reporters Katie Anastas from KPBS , Gemma Stephenson of the San Diego Union Tribune and voice of San Diego's Jacob McWhinney. One of the topics we covered was the impact of increased immigration enforcement on students and schools. This morning we found out that a parent was arrested near Linda Vista Elementary School while waiting to pick up their child from school Thursday afternoon. Now back to our education roundtable. You know , we've been talking about this focus on wellness recovery from the pandemic. And , Jacob , one thing that , you know , a story you did last school year was about this sort of increased emphasis on athletics , particularly , you know , we were talking about this emphasis on middle school and the importance of that age. Sandy Unified added a lot of like , athletics programs in the last couple of years.
S2: We know that intangibles like belonging. All of these things have an impact on students ability to learn and students willingness to come to school. And we can tell the program has made some impact because it's grown like crazy , I think the first year in 2122 , there was something like 880 students , and last year there were closer to 6000 students. The number of sports grew from just soccer to seven sports with like basketball and flag football and all of these different things. And so it's really been interesting to see , uh , schools acknowledge again that that all of these things play a role. It's difficult when schools have to stretch themselves thin like this. But I also think it's a it's a healthy thing for schools to understand that when we're talking about education , we're not just talking about what happens inside of the classroom. You know , a kid's life isn't just what happens inside of a classroom. I do have to say , I , I saw you at a flag football game when I was reporting this story. Uh , there were there were it was a middle school flag football game over at Hoover. I'm curious , what was what was your kids experience like in the.
S1: Oh , it was great. I mean , I went to track meets last year , middle school track meets that were awesome. You know , just kids from all over the city. Um , the flag football you mentioned and basketball. So it was. It was really cool to see that age group just be able to get engaged in in athletics. And you're right , it's just like such a meeting spot for kids. And I think , you know , a little bit we're kind of transitioned to this conversation about technology and it kind of goes hand in hand with that as it's just allows the space that wasn't there for those like younger kids. Exactly.
S2: Exactly. And it also opens up , you know , these kids , these sports opportunities for kids whose families may not necessarily be able to afford private leagues , which can be very expensive and very , very difficult for parents to , you know , ferry kids around to throughout the week.
S1: That's what I was going to say is also just the transportation , the fact that these activities are on the school grounds. Earlier , Gemma was talking about , you know , taking a bus ride from here to here. But having that those resources , you know , at the same place where you're going to school is just really , really beneficial. Totally.
S2: Totally.
S4: Can I add one thing about this ? I think that it's also interesting to see how joint use agreements with the city are kind of inviting the community Into these sports activities too. A few weeks ago , I was in City Heights for the opening of a new turf soccer field at Wilson Middle School. It's kind of right between Wilson and Central Elementary School , and it's this brand new field. And the agreement with the city is that during the school day , it's just for the students. And then after school hours , they can open up the gates and people in the community can come play soccer there. And , you know , the goal eventually could be , you know , maybe adult leagues end up using that field at night and things like that. But I thought that was a cool example because it speaks to kind of that community focus of we're recognizing schools as a central place in the community. And in when taxpayers vote to pass bonds and agree to chip in money for a while , that it's nice for those people to also have access to these facilities that we've all , yeah , voted to pay.
S1: For , open it up to the broader community as well. right ? So , you know , we've been talking about these issues and how they kind of overlap with with larger societal issues. Katie earlier mentioned immigration enforcement. And you know how that's kind of been trickling down into local schools. Um , Katie , earlier this year reported on how local school districts were planning to respond to potential Ice raids at at schools. Last week , a parent was arrested by immigration officials outside an elementary school in Chula Vista. How have you been seeing schools respond to this environment ? We're in of increased immigration enforcement and how is it impacting schools ? And more importantly , I guess , the , you know , families. Sure.
S2: Sure. Yeah. So , Trump , the Trump administration has obviously opened up a whole new world of uncertainty when it comes to immigration , and particularly when it comes to schools. You know , earlier this year , the Trump administration rescinded this Ice guidance that deemed schools sensitive areas that were kind of off limits for immigration enforcement. That kind of sensitive area guidance also included places like hospitals and churches. So all of those are now , you know , green lights when it comes to Ice enforcement raids. We haven't seen that in San Diego , but we have seen instances of that in other cities. What we've seen in San Diego mostly is parents get arrested outside of schools , you know , when they're going to drop their kid off. For example , this Chula Vista incident , um , a woman was arrested and her kids were in the car. They had to call the husband to come pick up kids. I mean , these are kids who are watching their parents be taken in front of their very eyes. This is having an extreme impact , inevitably , on their emotional well-being , well-being , on their sense of security. And unfortunately , this stuff is not likely to stop. And while we did see a whole lot of policies She's passed. Basically what those policies amount to is. Schools saying that they will ensure that Ice agents have a valid warrant before they enter these campuses. Beyond that , schools don't have a lot of power unless , you know , a teacher is going to barricade themselves inside of a classroom. And I don't think that that's very likely. And so what we're seeing is , is a situation where there are a whole lot of community members , a whole lot of teachers who are dealing with a whole lot of fear. And that has some really , really big impacts. Earlier this year , there were some really coordinated Ice raids that took place in Central Valley , and afterwards there were some noticeable decreases in attendance rates at these schools. Stanford did a study and found that it was in about 22% drop in rates of attendance because of fear , because of fear from people in this community that sending their kids to school may end up in one of them not coming home , or a parent not coming home. And all of these things have Drastic consequences. You know , for every school day that a kid misses , that's learning that they're missing out on. And for every school day that a kid misses , that's also funding that that school who's trying to educate these children are also missing out on. And so when we look at all of this , it's really , really important that parents know that they have rights. But it's also important , I think , for people to know that what schools can do , really there's not a whole lot. And so it's it's a very , very difficult time. And how schools respond , I think is , is something that we should all be paying very close attention to because some of these incidents , incidents I think really should , should , should trouble people.
S1:
S4: And that's the highest number they've admitted within the last 30 years. And that number really stood out to me. And I asked , you know why ? Why are we seeing this big spike ? And the idea across the whole University of California system is that the university admits a certain number of students. Kind of guessing how many will say yes. And this year they're offering that many more students admission , thinking that fewer of them will accept. And so I think that piece will be really interesting to follow this year. You know , we saw , uh , in the spring , the federal government was revoking student visas. Um , most of them , I think , ended up being restored. But there's a lot of uncertainty , not just for families of K-12 students , but also college students. Uh , and we'll have to see kind of whether that ends up affecting San Diego's international student community.
S1: Coming up , we turn to the role technology is playing in education today as AI tools make their way into classrooms. Roundtables. Back after the break. You're listening to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. On the show today , we've been talking all about San Diego schools. It's been returning to the classroom this week for much of the county and much of our region. I'm speaking with Katie Anastas , KPBS education reporter , along with Voice of San Diego's Jacob McWhinney and Gemma Stephenson from the San Diego Union-Tribune. I want to turn now to the topic of technology. This is another kind of , you know , major change this school year. San Diego Unified has a cell phone policy in place. Last year , it seems like some schools in the area had policies , but it was a little more haphazard. Katie , can you talk about this new cell phone policy for San Diego schools ? You know , what does it cover ? And , you know , I don't know if you've heard yet , but how are school students teachers responding so far ? Sure.
S4: So I think one thing to remember is that a lot of schools did have cell phone policies in place before this year. Part of the goal is just to have it be consistent across the district. Yeah , right. So the policy says that phones have to be turned off during class and stored out of sight. So that could be a backpack or something like that. Students can use them before and after school and on places like the bus and at extracurricular activities if they're doing those. And that rule applies to all grades like TK through senior year of high school. Um , high schoolers get a little bit of flexibility. They can use their phones during passing periods. They can use them at lunch. Um , the district also specifies that headphones and smartwatches and those kind of other Devices. High schoolers can use those if their teachers allow it.
S1: So some wiggle room , some there , but basically. So.
S4: And I asked him , is this going to be different for her ? Like , how how are you preparing her to not be on her phone , you know. And he said , oh , actually , this is like a rule in our house too. Like , you can't be on your phone when you're doing your homework like we have it , you know , we have it down like , um. And he was telling me all about , like , did you know all of the parental controls available on an iPhone ? It's great. And so I think a lot of parents kind of have figured it out before it gets to the point of , you know , taking your phone with you to school. Um , and I think when one other piece of this policy that I think is , is good and reflects the input of , of the students and and parents and everyone involved in this is that the enforcement of this is kind of a progressive enforcement. So it starts with things like verbal warnings. And then it could go to , um , you know , calling a parent or taking the phone away for the rest of the day. So there are kind of steps that everyone's agreed on , um , in order to enforce this policy.
S1: So it's not just like instant suspension or something.
S2: I got this message five minutes ago from the parent of a middle schooler at San Diego Unified. They said , just got this from school. Quote. Greetings. Your student was using their phone during class. It is a violation of the California Education Code and the school policy for students to use their phones during class. Please take a moment to discuss the situation with your student. So it looks like there's.
S1: You , Katie.
S2: It looks like there's some enforcement going on. Yeah. Busted.
S1: Busted.
S5: All right. Yeah. Lord almighty.
S1: Well , You know , Jacob , we know this world of technology is ever evolving. And , you know , one bigger and bigger story that you've been covering over the last , I don't know , a school year or two is the rise of generative AI , both from students , but also by teachers , by schools.
S2: Um , you know , it's been fascinating to watch. I sort of flood the space of education because while we're having a very sort of judicious discussion about cell phones and understanding the potentially really negative impacts that cell phone can have on student engagement and on student learning , uh , there is not so judicious a conversation being had about AI. Um , the corporations , you know , responsible for AI are really , really working their darndest to ensure that everywhere is is kind of embracing this new wave. And this isn't really something that we haven't seen before. Every couple of years , there is some new edtech product that will absolutely , you know , that its pitchman will say will absolutely , you know , transform the face of education. And I kind of fear that AI is the one that may actually do that. And in not so great ways , as you can probably tell , I'm quite an AI skeptic. Uh , you know , I think it personally , I think it has basically no place in K-12 schools , colleges maybe , I don't know , but it's , you know , a something that's extremely concerning because not only does it really kind of kneecap kids ability to learn critical thinking at a young age , in my view , it also is kind of rife with hallucinations. It's built on stolen data , XYZ , blah blah , blah , blah. And the long term implications of it , uh , and especially on children , are really pretty unknown. And because of that , I think we really , really have to err on the side of caution. Um , what a lot of school districts have kind of done at this point is embraced a kind of wait and see perspective. There aren't a whole lot of AI policies in place , at least none that are as kind of strict as as , you know , the the cell phone policy that we just , you know , read a text message from , um , and , and , and ultimately , what that ends up meaning is that there are kids using AI right now everywhere , all over schools. And there are ways in which AI has started to , uh , sort of become integrated into platforms that schools use , that maybe even teachers and educators don't know. So last year , I reported a story about how Sandy unified trustees , they they approved a contract on the consent agenda , which basically means there's no conversation about it that included the district's ability to use a AI grading platform. So a platform that would allow teachers to input student work into an AI platform that would then create it. And there are teachers in San Diego Unified who are using this AI grading platform. And so what that means is that currently there are students using AI to create student work , turning that in and potentially teachers using an AI to grade that. I work , which is a pretty dystopian thing to think about. You know , we're basically at this moment where there are AI's having conversations with each other , and all of it is being laundered as , as American education. And so I think that that really we we need to be extremely careful about these sorts of technologies because , again , we do not know the long term implications. And it is much more important to shield kids from the potential downsides than to sort of ensure that that these , these billion dollar companies and corporations have the customers that they need to continue to grow.
S1: Well , I'm just thinking about , you know , Katy was just talking. You were just talking about , you know , this new cell phone policy. But smartphones have been around or been used , you know , so much by young people for over a decade. Right. For , you know , it's like 2007. Really. Mhm. And it took a long time to get to this place. I mean what is your thought on , on this kind of eye space. Because from the parent perspective it is just like hard to keep track of , of how you know where things are and how fast it's changing.
S4: I think to something that's something that Jacob's comments about this remind me of is that I feel like anytime people ask kids , what would it take for you to be on your phone less ? A lot of them say , I would like to see the adults in my life also be on their phones less. And so I think there's something to be said about , um , you know , teachers have one of the toughest jobs ever. And I , you know , know no question about that. But I think that there's something to be said about the all of us as adults leading by example and and reminding kids that , you know , it's important to use those critical thinking skills. And it's important to read that book , and it's important to write that paragraph yourself. And I think it'll be interesting to see if there's anything we learned from that cell phone rollout of the last , however many decades. And if there's any , any lessons we learn from that , that we can apply to this , to this eye rollout.
S1: Or if we need our own cell phone policy.
S5: Right , right.
S1: I did some reporting on screens and kids , and that was like a resonating factor and talked to a lot of young people , and that was a common thing. It's like , well , my mom's just scrolling on TikTok , you know ? So it's not just the kids , Right. Gemma , I'm curious. Like , you know , what your thoughts on on technology and how it's playing a role in education today ? Yeah.
S3: I mean , I don't think I really have anything like that different than kind of like what's been said before , but I don't know. I guess I'm just kind of curious.
S1: Um , man , this is a heavy question.
S5: Sorry , I didn't mean to , but , um.
S1: It's like a lot of. Uh.
S5: Uh.
S1: There was a lot of takeaways from it , but definitely like , modeling the behavior. I mean , that's like parenting one on one. But easier said than done when it comes to technology. Um , and keeping screens out of out of bedrooms , like , that's a big takeaway , you know , like , if you can just have certain spaces that are just tech free. A lot of research suggests that's really beneficial for kids mental health , physical , like a variety of child development. Um , so that's something , you know , better sleep , all sorts of things. But , um , you know , on the I Jacob , you mentioned , how can it be hard to tell even the tools you're using whether what's AA , what's not. So there's like a recent study from Gallup that said 6 in 10 teachers are using AI. You're painting this picture. It's kind of like a Wild West situation. Is there any talk or any hope for , you know , more guidance there , whether it's from state level or federal , you know , or from individual school districts on how to kind of get a better handle on AI in the classroom.
S2: I certainly think there are conversations happening. I know that there's a task force , a statewide task force that's been put together to start to come up with some sort of guidelines around this , or at least guardrails around how AI is used. And certainly there are teachers who have individual policies. Um , but ultimately we are losing time. You know , I and I hate to be the , the Luddite , you know , chicken little person in here , but it it genuinely is pretty frightening at times , especially when you see , you know , we're on the campus of Sdsu here , uh , CSU campus. Um , CSU system basically went all in on AI and created this public private partnership with OpenAI to. And I think they described themselves as a , quote , AI powered institution.
S1: OpenAI is the one of the main players in the generative AI space. ChatGPT. They make ChatGPT. Other things go. Ahead.
S5: Ahead. Exactly.
S2: Exactly. Yeah. So all of these things , I think , create permission structures that in the same way as parents using screens when they're telling their kids not to create a sort of like , it's okay for me , but not for these situation. And so when we're having these conversations , I think it's really , really important to to think about them holistically. And certainly there maybe , you know , um , benefits to training people and how to properly and responsibly use AI. But if you're having those conversations where you're integrating AI without really deciding what the guardrails are first , I think that you're taking a big , big , big couple of steps back and maybe one step forward , because again , I mean , I've said this a million times , but we don't know what these things are going to look like in the future. We don't know , you know , in ten years what the impact will be on kids who have grown up , uh , interacting with AI chatbot tutors or essentially collaborating on essays about The Great Gatsby with ChatGPT. I mean , what does that look like ? What does the world of tomorrow look like when our kids have basically had some AI chatbot whispering in their ear from the time that they were in elementary school ? I don't know , but it's a world that seems a little frightening to me.
S1: Well , I was hoping to end on a little bit of a more optimistic note , but we're out of time , so we're going to have to leave it there.
S5: Oh , no , sir. I've been speaking.
S1: With KPBS education reporter Katie Anastas , voice of San Diego's Jacob McWhinney and Gemma Stevenson , who covers K-12 education with the San Diego Union Tribune. I want to thank you all so much for joining us today. Thanks.
S2: Thanks.
S4: Thanks for having us.
S1: That'll do it for our show this week. Thanks so much for listening to KPBS roundtable. You can listen to the show anytime as a podcast. KPBS roundtable airs on KPBS FM at noon on Fridays again Sundays at 6 a.m.. If you have any thoughts on today's show , you can email us at roundtable at KPBS or leave us a message at (619) 452-0228. Roundtables. Technical producer this week was Brandon Truffaut. Brooke Ruth is roundtables senior producer. I'm Andrew Bracken. Thanks again for listening and have a great weekend.
