S1: Hey there , San Diego , it's time for KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. The city council of National City rejected a proposed biofuel plant this week over environmental concerns , how residents and environmental groups rallied to reject it in a community that's long felt pollutions effects. Then the finest KPBS Arts and Culture podcast wraps up their first season of episodes. The team behind it shares some of their favorite moments , and we check in on a busy week in California politics. That's ahead on KPBS roundtable. It's been a busy week in California politics. The state's voters approved proposition 50 to redraw congressional maps to favor Democrats. Now , a group of California Republicans have filed a lawsuit challenging that measure. But that's not all that's been happening. Longtime congresswoman and former speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi announced her plans to retire from Congress in January. We wanted to take a few minutes to take stock of a busy week in politics , and here to help us do that is Alexi Kossoff. He's the Washington , D.C. , correspondent with the San Francisco Chronicle. Alexi , welcome back to roundtable.
S2: Thanks for having me on.
S1: So I was looking the last time we spoke. You joined us back in August when proposition 50 was really just starting to take shape. I'm wondering if you can reflect back on on how we got here this week from those early days of when this measure started to take take hold.
S2: I still can barely believe it , honestly , because over the summer , when the idea of proposition 50 was first floated. It seemed like such a long shot. You know , maybe even a political fantasy. But the momentum really very quickly came together. Lawmakers in Sacramento fell behind Gavin Newsom's plan to put this on the ballot to , you know , take power away temporarily from California's independent redistricting commission and essentially fight back against Trump. That's the message that they that they put out there. And the Democrats got behind it. California voters got behind it , and they now have an overwhelming victory on their hands , which is really sort of stunning. The the distance that we've come in just those three months. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. It has traveled fast. Seems like. So what do you think prop 50 success means for , you know , other states , either blue or red states and redistricting efforts because we're seeing this kind of happen in other places as well obviously. Absolutely.
S2: Absolutely. I would say it's been interesting this week as I've been reporting on that. Democratic states really seem to be gaining momentum to redistrict , while Republican states are sort of losing momentum right now to redistrict. There was sort of this flurry of energy this summer , and a couple of Republican states moved very quickly , and Democratic states were trying to assess their options. It wasn't as easy for them because so many of them have adopted these independent commissions. But with the success of prop 50 , we've seen Virginia just in the past two weeks , um , start moving toward a similar ballot measure that they could put on the ballot next year to try and overturn temporarily their independent redistricting commission and add more Democratic seats. And pressure is growing on states now , like Maryland and Illinois , to also act and add more seats for Democrats. So , um , there's , you know , a lot of pressure and activity there. Whereas the Republican states that haven't acted yet seem to kind of be digging in their heels , and it's not as clear much how many more seats Republicans will be able to gain through traditional redistricting.
S1: Swift shifting gears now. Nancy Pelosi , a longtime California congresswoman from California , she became the first woman woman speaker of the House. She announced her resignation this week. I'm wondering if you can reflect on her legacy , but also , you know , what her retirement means for the future of the Democratic Party here in California.
S2: Yeah , absolutely. I mean , this is a huge deal , not necessarily unexpected. There were a lot of signals coming that she might retire at the end of this term. Um , but it is a momentous , you know , announcement for California because , you know , not only did Nancy Pelosi serve for decades in Congress , she was the leader of the Democrats for two of those decades , and she was able to accomplish a lot for California through that position of power , bringing resources back to the state , making sure the priorities of the state were , you know , heard in national legislation , in appropriations , and also kind of sharing the values of California and exporting those nationally through the Democratic Party agenda. So it's a huge sort of loss symbolically and , you know , just materially for California. But , you know , there will be some of her kind of mentees who are rising up through the ranks in Washington that will hopefully be able to step up and kind of fill that void a bit for the state.
S1: You mentioned Washington there. And , you know , we need to point out , you know , previously we talked to you from Sacramento , but you recently made the move to cover national politics in Washington.
S2: With an eye still on California. My hope is , you know , there's so few reporters left here in Washington , D.C. who are covering California specifically. So I'm excited to be bringing coverage that really digs into the , you know , what's meaningful for the state here in , in the national sphere. But I would say the biggest change I've noticed so far is just the sheer scale of everything compared to the capital in Sacramento. I mean , there's it's so much bigger. There's so many more people. I've gotten lost in the basement so many times. So , um , definitely just a few weeks in and figuring out my bearings for sure.
S1: Well , and we'll check back in with you to see how you're doing in the coming months. I'm sure you'll find your way around those basements and , you know , coming up. Alexi Cossa is the Washington , D.C. , correspondent with the San Francisco Chronicle. Alexi , thanks so much for being here. And we'll we'll talk again soon , I'm sure. Absolutely.
S2: Absolutely. Thanks so much.
S1: After the break , National City rejected a proposed biofuel project this week over concerns of pollution. That's ahead on roundtable. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken in National city this week , a unanimous vote to reject a depo widely criticized for potential health impacts. Dozens of community members spoke out against it in a neighborhood already impacted by industrial pollution. Joining me with the story is Corey Suzuki. He covers San Diego , South Bay for KPBS , and also Philip Salata is here. He's environment and energy reporter with a news source. I want to welcome you both back to the roundtable. Corey , let's talk about the fuel depot at the center of this vote. It would have been a hub for biofuels. What exactly does that mean ? Yes.
S3: That's right. Andrew. The the hub , the depot itself would have been a hub for regional distribution of biofuels. As you said , biofuels are cleaner alternatives to diesel and gas. And the idea behind this depot , the company behind it , argued that it would cut the region's emissions by making it easier to distribute these fuels across San Diego County. But like you said , the project faced opposition from hundreds of residents , local school officials , environmental advocates because it would rely on diesel burning trucks and trains to transport that fuel. So even though it was focused on these cleaner alternatives , it would still be bringing pollution to this part of the city.
S1: Yeah , that's kind of an interesting kind of juxtaposition there , because you're right. This biofuel is meant to improve the environment , but it's still the transportation ads. These , you know , uses these diesel forms of transportation. Right.
S4: So it is located in an area that is actually tucked in right next right in a residential area. And there's an elementary schools there as well. And , and also Saint Anthony Padua Church. So it's really it's within , you know , a. Residential.
S1: Residential.
S4: Area , a rocks throw of of a lot of children coming through the area as well. And so and it also is supposed to run 24 hours a day and seven days a week. And many of these trucks going through the neighborhood at critical hours when , when people would be out and experiencing life in the neighborhood. I also want to say that right. The idea was to , um , behind the station to cut overall emissions in California and reach state goals , but that would also concentrate these diesel emissions in this neighborhood , in an area that's been designated by the state as particularly impacted by industrial pollution.
S1: Yeah , we want to kind of dig more into that.
S3: The planning commission voted to deny the company's request for specifically two critical permits , which basically halted the project. But USD Clean Fuels , the Texas based energy company that has been trying to build this biofuel depot , appealed the decision , which raised it to the city council and , um , the city council , I think it would be fair to say , appeared a little divided on the proposal when they first heard about it in or when they first heard heard presentations on the project in October. Um , this was something that they they asked , uh , whether the company might be able to electrify parts of its infrastructure to use electric locomotives and electric trucks instead of , um , instead of using these diesel burning equipment to transport the fuel. But on Tuesday , when the company came back and brought some of those questions to the council again , the council ultimately decided that company executives had failed to prove that they were going to take meaningful steps to protect residents health. Um , I think here's what City Council member Luis Molina had to say.
S5: We are not saying no to progress. We're just not wanting to be the price of it.
S1: Well , one making it pretty clear. Philip , you've talked about , you know , some of the the historical impacts here of of pollution in this area and bringing it back to the neighborhood where this facility was supposed to go. I mean , what were you hearing from from residents in their response to , you know , the build up of this vote and what they had to say ? Yes.
S4: So residents are complaining already of respiratory issues. The area is also known to have some of the highest rates of asthma in the county , and also comparable across the state , across the state as well. So this is one of the reasons why the California Air Resources Board designated the neighborhood as a portside environmental justice neighborhood. It's actually slated for programs to reduce emissions rather than promote programs to increase emissions. And so right , we already have that health issue. So the program in National City has been basically how how best to endorse businesses that are going to turn that around.
S1: Corey , you spoke to a long time national city residents , you know , in your reporting here. One of those opposed to the project was Margarita Garcia. Let's take a listen to what she told you yet.
S6: Tiempo estamos tratado de la ciudad de tacos y y lo ya no viene otro peor con no es gusto. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. Margarita is a retired hairdresser. She was 82 when I spoke to her earlier this year. And , uh , for two decades now , she's been fighting to end pollution in her neighborhood. She's one of the residents who are members of the Environmental Health Coalition , which is a local environmental justice group that does a lot of work to to push back against pollution in South Bay communities. And , um , what Margarita is , um , was saying there is we've been trying to clean the City of pollution for a long time. Um , we're almost there. And then something worse comes along. It's , um. She says it's not fair. And what , uh , Margarita was really getting at there is that , um , in recent decades , city officials in National City have recognized that there has been have has been this sort of process of approvals from the city council , um , green lighting , some of this infrastructure , green lighting , industrial businesses , moving into the into the region and some of the activities of the port. Some of this is out of out of control of local officials. But , um , some of this is within their control as well. And so in the 20 tens and even earlier , uh , national city leaders started acknowledging the concerns that residents were raising and saying , okay , we're going to take steps to slowly try and press out some of the industrial businesses on the West side. We're going to take steps to limit the amount of heavy industrial industry that can be moving in. Um , and I think what to many people , uh , this proposal for a new fuel depot represented was a reversal on that promise. If if city officials moved forward with it. So that was what , um , that was what I heard from Margarita. That was what I heard from the other residents , residents that I spoke with. Um , that's what I think was going through a lot of people's minds ahead of the decision.
S1: And as you mentioned there , it's not just the city. You know , it's not just a national city involved here. You mentioned the port. The port of San Diego has an important role to play. Philip , it's been kind of a long road , as you both have reported on , to get to this point , a lot of debate , environmental reviews. I mean , the company USD Clean Fuels went through , you know , a process here.
S4: I will mention that the Environmental Health Coalition has been collaborating on a project to potentially bring in a charging station for electric trucks in National City , so they are thinking about the future of how to transform industry in the area. So but that was not a possibility from the perspective of USD clean fuels as they actually charter out those services. The truck drivers are not under their purview. So then it turned to what kind of mitigation efforts they could bring forth in this last. These last couple of weeks. And they came back with a proposal , basically to plant a thousand trees and over the next ten years , and to bring in about 100 air filters to residences within the area of the , the , the proposed station. And. Well , that clearly was not enough from the perspective of the council to really bring this into the position of a zero emissions project. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Corey.
S3: I mean , I think there were a lot of people at the meeting on Tuesday who heard what the company had to say , heard some of the proposals that they brought back to make changes to the project and didn't think it was enough. I mean , the company also sort of tried to make this point. Company executives , um , tried to find ways to , I think , increase the efficiency of the project , basically. Um , one of the main arguments that they , that they made was that , um , some of the greatest emissions from the project , greatest diesel pollution was going to come from , uh , trains , the locomotives. And so they , um , tried to say that they would , uh , hitch the cars carrying their fuel into National City onto trains that would already be passing through instead of sending additional trains through the city. Um , but I mean , to sort of the , the city councils , the questions that the city council raised back in October last month. Um , they really didn't make very much of a mention of any kinds of , uh , electrification , any kind of commitment to electrify those locomotives or electrify the trucks that they were going to use. So , um , I think I would say from , from what we heard on Tuesday , there was a big gap between some of what the council was asking for last month and what the company came back with.
S1: So , Philip , I mean , the council's decision was a unanimous vote. Right.
S4: I mean , the company itself , USD Clean Fuels , has said that it's going to seek local and state pathways to consider what their future , what the possibilities are. But that for now , is quite unclear.
S1: Okay , well , I want to finish up now. Just getting your final thoughts. I mean , you both have covered this over many months. This is one project. You know , there's a lot around similar projects as you mentioned. Philip , what questions do you have going forward for this story ? Corey.
S3: Yeah , I think to me , with this moment in this decision on Tuesday , really represents is , uh , a real , um , victory for environmental advocates at a time when there are not a whole lot of those to go around. I mean , um , I think that the , the project itself , um , there are many counties or many communities in San Diego County who I think would have been opposed to this project and opposed to living near it , near that kind of that level of pollution. But I think what what made , uh , the , the fight against it in National City especially , um , especially why it stands out so much and why it drew so much attention is because this is a neighborhood where , um , where this has been happening for decades , these same kinds of activities. And this is a city where 1 in 4 residents live below the federal poverty level. More than two thirds of people identify as Latino. Um , and this is really a place where , like , like many communities across the country where pollution has been concentrated , in a place where poor people and people of color live. Um , and so I think that this decision was , um , really , uh , a test of that and it was , um , a movement where , uh , and the environmental justice sort of advocates , um , went out at a time where that's not really happening too much.
S1: We'll have to leave it there for now , but hopefully we can speak more soon about where this goes. I've been speaking with Corey Suzuki. He covers San Diego , South Bay for KPBS along with Philip Salata. He's the environment and energy reporter with eNews source. Thanks for , you know , thanks for joining us and breaking this down for us today.
S4: A pleasure.
S3: Thank you. Andrew.
S1: Coming up , the creators of the KPBS arts podcast , The Finest. Join us to share their reflections as they wrap up their first season. You're listening to KPBS roundtable. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. You might recognize that sound. That's the theme music from our colleagues over at The Finest. It's the KPBS podcast all about the art and movements defining San Diego. And they're celebrating their season one finale this week. And in that season , they've covered stories on everything from matcha to indie music , from poetry to birding. And they're joining us here on roundtable now to talk more about this first season. Julie Dixon Evans is KPBS arts reporter and host of The Finest. And also Anthony Wallace. He is the podcast producer. Welcome to both of you. To the roundtable.
S7: Hey , Angie. Thanks for having us.
S1: Great to have you here. And to talk about the finest and really celebrate the achievement here by , what , 25 episodes now ? So the season one finale just came out Thursday. Congratulations on the season. But tell us about this finale. It's about the fight to read in America's prisons. Yeah.
S7: Yeah. So I mean , this episode started we started working on it actually about a year ago , almost a full year ago. Um , we wanted to do a new story. It started out as a news story about books three Bars , which is a San Diego prison books program. They ship books to people who are incarcerated across the country. So not just local jails , but everywhere. And we met somebody who is a volunteer with them who had actually had experience incarcerated. And her story was so incredible , and she was so willing to just go there and talk about her experience that we just knew we wanted to spend a little more time with her. And then , yeah , like uncovering a ton of stuff about the way the prisons censor reading materials really , really like , steered that episode a lot.
S8: Yeah , it was just like my second week of work ever at KPBS. I just went with Julia to , like , help her film. Uh , the news package , um , is doing something unfamiliar , working with the camera. Um , but , yeah , cherish the person that we interviewed. The volunteer with bookstore bars was. Her personal story was just incredible. Like , it was so , so captivating that we were like , okay , this. This can be a lot something a lot bigger than just a news story. And the more we dug into it , the more interesting it became. It's very surprising how books are censored in prison , like the kinds of books that they don't allow in are not necessarily the ones you would expect.
S1: Well , and we have let's take a listen to a little bit of that episode. We have a clip here.
S9: It was during Covid and so there are many months when we wouldn't leave our cells at all , except every other day to use a shower for 15 minutes. Not that we couldn't even go outside. Aside from that , we were sitting on our beds in the cells , and I only could do one of two things either sleep or look out the window and watch the geese , because there was tons of geese at that person.
S7: But cherish had one thing , one respite from the brutal monotony. Geese or not.
S9: So really , the only brief escape we had were books. And I went through so many books. I think that's the only thing that allowed me to actually get through it.
S1: One thing I love about this episode is it just really kind of illustrates your approach to arts and culture , and really the wide breadth that you cover it with. I'm just curious , Julia , how did you approach , you know , framing what you wanted ? Season one of the finest to be because it covers such a wide variety here.
S7: I mean , we had like a really long brainstorming process at the start of the season before we really dove into any other episodes. And we were talking about like , where our stories are going to come from and what is going to be at the heart of the season and these episodes. And it's almost always about the people. Um , I think if we can find somebody with a great story , that is the first priority , right ? That is what then shapes. Okay. What are the topics ? Is this going to be about art ? And we were really leaning into this kind of like the broad definition of culture. So it's not just art as you would think in the traditional sense , like books or visual art or theater , but it's more like identity and the way that like culture is your identity and it's your background , and it's kind of like the way that you exist in community and the relationships that you have. So you can go so many ways with culture.
S1: And you did in this season , actually , one thing that comes to mind is the KPBS music series. This is something that you're involved with bringing musicians here into KPBS and really changing the vibes here and bringing bringing music alive. But it kind of goes to that community point. Julia , can you talk about , I think the , you know , the first concert was this band slacker that was part of your first season , right ? Yeah.
S7: I mean , the music series is so fun because not only is it like a total treat for us in our work day. It's a way for us to have these like open concerts or , you know , it's a pilot program , so we're not entirely sure how it will end up. But also this video series , a way to , um , have an outlet for smaller , emerging local acts to get there , get their music out there. Yeah.
S8: Yeah. And we had , uh , I mean , yeah , we had the show here at KPBS , like during lunch. So , you know , everyone that worked here got to go out there and hang out , which is cool. Um , but we also invited , like , students from the San Diego State campus to come. And so I think it was a cool way to , like , familiarize a lot of those kids with KPBS. You know , maybe they had walked by the building , but they'd never been inside. Um , yeah. And it was a lot of fun. And the band was very fun. And so , yeah , we they performed. And then basically right after we took them back here to the studio and talk to them just about the songs that they played and the story of their band , and we put together a little episode featuring that stuff.
S7: And they were I mean , what I loved about that band is how much they loved being in a band , and it's like , it's just great to hear sometimes that people are making art and loving the process of it. Like , um , I don't know. It was very rejuvenating for me as someone who had been covering art for so long , to just get this , like , really genuine creative story.
S8: There's nothing like the bond of a band.
S7: Yeah , they're like besties , I loved it. Yeah.
S8: I mean , it's like a family.
S1: It's a real relationship. Yeah , absolutely. So , Julie , I hate to do this to you , but , you know , after these 25 episodes , after season one's in the books , I don't want to ask you , you know , for a favorite , because I imagine that's pretty hard to do.
S7: But I'm going to go with one of the most recent ones , which is , uh , it was about this lost composer. Um , her name is Alice Barnett , and she lived in San Diego like 100 years ago. And , um , she was quite popular. She was quite famous. She was known across the country. And then , um , she passed away in , like , 1975. She mostly stopped composing in the 1930s , I think it was , um , and then , like , was was lost from the discourse. Like , people don't talk about her. People don't play her music anymore. And she was performed across around the world , really. And we came across this woman who was a local musicologist , Katina Mitchell. And she is like she Discovered her when she was researching her own house , and found out that this composer lived across the street , used to live across the street , and so she went to the San Diego History Center and looked up archives , found musical scores , and then started finding all of these details that were kind of weirdly similar to her own life , like a hundred years later. And it's just what I love about this story is how delightful both of these characters are. Like , they're just a joy to listen to. And , um , it also turned into this , like , exploration of fame. And like , these are the big questions that , like Anthony and I have when we are coming up with how what will this episode be about ? And when I pitch this one to Anthony , I knew that he would be like asking these big questions about like , okay , but why is someone forgotten ? And yeah , I don't know if you want to speak. Yeah.
S8: Yeah.
S7: Like that process ? Yeah.
S8: I think. I mean , you're asking earlier. Um , you know , how we choose episode topics or I think , like , you know , most of our episodes have or really all of them have two components. You know , one is a great story. Um , about a , you know , a local person that's very compelling. And then the other is like some big idea , some very interesting big idea. And the example of this episode , the story is this woman who's like , uncovering a lost musician.
S7:
S1: Famous are still going to be famous ? Well , I think about this a lot in terms of certain music. I don't know , a band I love , I don't know , like New Order or just what sticks around and what doesn't. It's really interesting and I don't know how you predict it , you know. Right. We have a clip from that episode. And again , this is about the composer Alice Barnett.
S10: Who we told.
S7: 100 years ago. Alice Barnett was a big deal.
S11: Her pieces were played on national radio. There are thousands of mentions of her in the newspapers from the New York Times in Los Angeles.
S7: Minneapolis for the past few years. Katina has been immersed in Alice Barnett's world because as successful as Alice was in her time today.
S11: Most people still have never heard of Alice Barnett. And I'm little by little trying to change that.
S7: And that's actually Katina singing. So she has not only like uncovered the the like Information. She is literally sharing Alice's music. Yeah.
S8: Performing it. Because when an artist from the prerecorded music era is forgotten , it's like there's literally no recordings of their music. Like , if you want that music to exist again or to be heard at all , you have to go and find the sheet music and then get a bunch of people together and play it. And in this case , you know , for some music , she's , she's working off of literal , like handwritten , like in faded notebooks from 100 years ago , trying to decipher it and stuff. So it's just it was interesting.
S1: Anthony Julia talked about , you know , just the importance of having these rich characters in each episode. And like , we just heard from , you know , Alice Barnett there , but there's another episode that stands out all about Lucky Wong. Talk to me about that one and what sticks out for you.
S8: Yeah , I mean , yeah , perhaps he's the most memorable character from the whole season to me. I never got to meet him. He passed away before we started working on the story. But basically , um , this guy lucky had this diner in North Park that he opened in 1975 selling , like , basic cheap breakfast food. And he worked there six days a week for basically 50 years. And he worked there by himself. Like he literally took the orders , cooked the food , brought it out like one man show. And he was doing this into his late 80s. Um , but what really made him special in the story special was the bonds that he built with his regulars over the years. And , I mean , it's just so far beyond , like , you know , a normal acquaintance of someone you would see. I mean , he they were I mean , there was 200 people , over 200 people at the funeral. Most of them were customers from the diner. Um , yeah. And so basically what we did for , for this episode is there was so many people that loved him. It was almost like overwhelming. Like we couldn't interview all of them. So we like put out a call on Reddit and we said , if you're interested , um , just send us a voice memo about your memories of of lucky and his diner. And we got so , so many of them. You know , I think we probably had like 4 or 5 hours of audio to work with , and we kind of , like , stitched it all together. And there was some incredible stories in there.
S1: Well , let's take a listen to a little bit of that. And what you heard about him.
S12: He thought he had swell all the way here from China. And we needed to grow up strong like him.
S13: And I told him that the food was delicious. He responded with , my food's not good , you're just hungry.
S14: He especially enjoyed chatting with kids and giving bacon to dogs. My children always called him Uncle Lucky.
S15: Everybody thought they were special to him. I don't know how he did it. He. It wasn't real obvious. But you knew he cared about you.
S1: That's just. Yeah , it's really beautiful to hear that. That impact that he had. I want to call attention to another piece of that. And that's the music in the background. And this is something that jumps out to me about the episodes. And , Anthony , I know you're you're humble about talking about this , but it's not like you guys just pick tracks , you know , out of thin air and just play them. This music you composed yourself. Tell us about the process and how you look to handle music in each particular episode here.
S8: Yeah , I mean , I kind of like come from a music background. Um , I played in bands and made music , uh , you know , all throughout my 20s. And that's kind of like what got me into podcasting. I got interested in journalism and and it was like , oh , I can like kind of make , you know , songs out of , you know , stories , you know , with podcasts and the podcasts that really like stuck , you know , the podcasts that really influenced me and made me love podcasts are like Radiolab , um , and shows like that that are very sound rich. Um , and yeah , for me , it's a lot of fun to add a lot of music and sound and kind of , you know , make it feel like you're in a , you know , like sucked into a particular world when you're listening to , to something.
S1: Another part of the the podcast that stands out to me , Julia , and I'm wondering if you can tell us more about it. It's just just it seems that you both work so well together in creating this podcast is , you know , I'm wondering how you collaborate.
S7: And Chrissy , when our editor is a big part of that too. Um , but like I think what I like about working with with Anthony and Chrissy is like the way that we can develop an idea and like , bring something that we have our own perspective on and then like , get questions and curiosity that we may not otherwise have thought of. And I think , um , like I have learned a lot about the podcast interview style. I think in the broadcast world , you're probably familiar. You'll probably relate to this as like when you're interviewing someone you're thinking of like , uh , brevity. You're trying to get the sound bite. But when you're putting together a story like a long form story , the interview just can go on for hours. Um. Like we , you know , we really dig in and sometimes you think you have the full story , but Anthony will , like , come in my ear and be like , let's ask again about this one thing and get more. And so yeah , it's been really great to learn , you know , more about really getting that story and like the full breadth of storytelling.
S1: And on that full breadth. I mean , one episode that stands out to me is you told the story of local musician Juliana Zakaria and the economic realities of being a musician today in this streaming era. And Anthony , I love it.
S8: Yeah. Almost everyone Way underestimated. And that's what we were anticipating. No.
S7: No. Overestimated. Right ? They thought that people were rolling in the dough. Yeah. If they had a hit on Spotify.
S8: Yeah , people. People were way off. They thought that you'd make way more money than you really do. And that's what we anticipated.
S1: And so Juliana Zachary , she actually had a song. Right ? Julia. That , that got 5 million plus plays on Spotify. Right.
S7: Right. And I mean , I love that song and I've loved it for years. And so , um , to talk to her about that , this actual experience of , you know , you think you're making it as a musician and you're not in the struggles and it's anchored in the song that , like , I myself have listened to , like dozens of times. So.
S1:
S7:
S1:
S8: Right. She made 15.
S7: Over seven years.
S1: And you talked to her and she kind of reflected on that. We have a clip from that episode.
S16: Honestly , doing that math in front of you just makes me so angry and emotional. I think that's why I don't engage with it too often , because it's so heartbreaking. And I had the luck of getting one song into those numbers. It's really hard to get those numbers. It's the shooting star kind of thing.
S7: And , you know , I have known Juliana Zakaria for a couple of years professionally. Like I have interviewed her before and , um , like a year and a half ago. So before we had we had started this podcast before we started interviewing her for this episode , I sat down with her for a couple of hours. We had coffee and I taped it , and , um , I , I just wanted to see if she would go there , if she would be willing to talk about finances. Because you need somebody who's willing to , you know , lay out the numbers to really understand how dire the music economy is for artists. And so , like I even in that moment when we're in the studio , I didn't know what. I still wasn't sure like how far she would go if she would give us like , the numbers. And it was like we both choked up during that interview. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. I mean , it was pretty striking , pretty powerful. Julia , you've obviously covered San Diego's art scene for for several years. You know , after working on the finest this season.
S7: Um , and I also , though , have a lot more hope. I think I have the sense that people are talking. They're building community. They are finding ways to share , um , what they're creating , whether it's food , whether it's , um , you know , art spaces , whether it's music. And I think that just like seeing that more. I'm thinking of the graffiti episode , too , like just seeing the way that people are , you know , putting art as this , this like priority in their lives is , is really that's giving me hope despite everything else. Anthony.
S1: Anthony. I mean , you guys were done with season one here. I don't want to put you too much on the spot , but you do have another season coming fairly soon.
S8: We have no shortage of those. Um , you know , one of one of the upcoming episodes that we're excited about is about Riso graph Printing , which is like this kind of it's sometimes called like digital screen printing. It's kind of hard to describe , but it has a particular look to it. Um , there's , there's a limited number of colors. It's like the colors are vivid , but the history of it is very interesting. It started like in Japan post-World War two out of like resource constraints. But basically it was just like this cheap way to make flyers for businesses and churches and stuff , like in the 80s. Um , but it became obsolete and all these machines got thrown away.
S7: And they're like , collecting dust is.
S8: Like in , like a basement.
S7: Or church basements. Yeah.
S8: Yeah. But there's been a , like a movement recently of artists finding these machines in basements and stuff and making art out of them. And so our episode will trace that whole history.
S7: And I heard in like a local press , burn all books who they have had a couple of graph printers. I think they have more than one now , but for a while they had one that was like the only one in the area.
S1: Well , something for folks to look forward to , but still for anyone you can catch up on all the episodes from the first season of The Finest at KPBS , podcasts , or really wherever you listen to your podcast. I've been speaking with Julia Dixon Evans. She's host of The Finest and the podcast producer , Anthony Wallace. I want to thank you both for being here on roundtable.
S7: Hey , thank you Andrew.
S1: That'll do it for the KPBS roundtable today. Thanks so much for listening. You can always find the show anytime as a podcast , or leave us a review on your favorite podcast app. KPBS roundtable airs on KPBS FM at noon on Fridays again Sundays at 6 a.m.. If you have any thoughts on today's show , you can email us at roundtable at KPBS or leave us a message at (619) 452-0228. Roundtables. Technical producers this week were Brandon Rufa and Rebecca Chacon. The show was produced by Ashley Rush. Brooke Ruth is roundtable senior producer. I'm your host , Andrew Bracken. Thanks again for listening and have a great weekend.
