S1: Hey there , San Diego , it's time for KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. Residents of San Diego's camping sites for the homeless are suing the city , saying it forces them to live in inhumane conditions. We check in on the city's safe sleeping program two years on and see what changes the lawsuit is calling for , then. San Diego's population is aging. What does that mean for our region and its future ? All that , plus the weekly roundup. That's ahead on KPBS roundtable. A group of residents at San Diego's safe sleeping sites filed a lawsuit this week arguing the city program needs an overhaul. The lawsuit claims conditions that the city run camps are unsanitary and unsafe , and harming residents physical and mental health. Here to tell us more is Blake Nelson. He covers homelessness for the San Diego Union Tribune. So , Blake , tell us more about the lawsuit , who's behind it.
S2: Yeah. Filed the lawsuit on Monday saying that there's a whole host of problems that they want the city and the nonprofit operators to fix. A lot of these problems we have have been raised , have come up before. I've written stories about concerns about rats on site , about if the tents are too close together , which might allow fires to spread. But this is the first time we're actually getting it all together in sort of one set of claims in federal court. And the attorneys who are filing the suit , including an Menashe , have a history of successfully challenging San Diego on homelessness policy. So there is a track record here , and they have been able to force changes in the past on on other issues.
S1: And to remind us , you know , what sites are specifically being called out here.
S2: So we've got two what the city calls safe sleeping sites , which are both by Balboa Park. We've got one area that's generally known as the 20th and B site. We've got another lot not too far away called a lot. Each place together , we've got hundreds of two person tents , sort of arranged in a grid formation where homeless folks are able to stay.
S1: So tell us , I mean , you spent some time at both of those locations. Tell us about , you know , what you saw. I mean , did you see some of these things you mentioned the kind of accusations of rats and the sort of lack of access for some disabled folks as well as , you know , impacts of of whether in these camps as well. Right.
S2: So yeah , I guess to take a step back , one thing to point out is I think even people who like safe sleeping sites don't like safe sleeping sites , like even proponents for this program are not saying this is awesome. This this fixes homelessness for the region. Let's just do this forever. Everyone's sort of in agreement that that having people stay intense is not a great long term solution. The debate centers on is this an acceptable stopgap as more housing is built , as more traditional shelter beds come online ? So on and so forth. So yes , I have spent time at both sites and like , yes , the tents inside the tents can get very hot. Yes , the lower site , 20th and B has been evacuated multiple times amid heavy rains. The most recent inspection report I got from the county about rodents complaint had come in over the summer. The team when the county team visited , they didn't see any rats , although they did recommended that the traps be changed more regularly. So on a lot of the issues that the lawsuit brings up , it's not like people are denying , no , there's no heat , there's no mold , there's no whatever. Again , the debate and what city officials have said in the past is we are fixing these things. We're addressing mold , we're setting rat traps. And this is this is an okay stopgap. And I have talked to residents at the safe sleeping sites who have said something similar. This is not the greatest thing in the world , but I do feel safer here than in the sidewalk in camp than I was before.
S1: You mentioned , you know , you referred to it a couple of times as a stopgap. I mean , give us some more context here.
S2: Sometimes they're rejecting shelter because what's being offered is one huge room with tons of bunk beds. They once stayed in. A place like that had a very bad experience because whatever. There's all sorts of ways that that can go wrong. And so to say you can have your own private tent , you can stay with your partner. Couples are allowed to stay together. You can bring your pets things that aren't allowed in other facilities. That is attractive to some people. And a lot of the people who stay there have long lived outside. Um , and so the the numbers in the last fiscal year , for example , uh , 1700 or so , uh , had stayed at the sites , um , and several definitely dozens. I'm sorry , I don't have the numbers in front of me right now. Dozens definitely did make it into permanent housing during the last fiscal year , but the numbers are are low. Sorry. The exact numbers here 1787. Last fiscal year , uh , 156 made it into long term housing.
S1: So yeah. Okay. About 10% or less , something like that. So you say , you know , the program's faced criticism really , since it started , you kind of made that comment that , you know , nobody's really ultimately happy with. It would have been , you know , some of the bigger concerns raised from the get go.
S2: The definitely fire that the tents are too close together. City officials have said , well , some tents are close together. There are lanes for for ambulances and fire trucks to get through if necessary. Um , I mean , there's they've acknowledged that , yes , there's sometimes been rats there. The I think one of the biggest claims that hasn't been litigated in public as much before is the claim that this is this is a hostile environment for disabled people. And so one of the women , one of the women I spoke to during a press conference on this recently , who uses a walker , said that the disabled shower had been broken for two months and that that , along with a long list of other problems , had just made this very , very difficult for her to get around for her to clean herself. And so these once this makes it starts making it through the court system. I'll really be paying attention to the disability stuff , especially because I've heard less about that in the past. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. I mean , so this lawsuit was filed against the city of San Diego , but also some of its partners , you know , running this program , dreams for Change in Downtown Partnership.
S2: Dreams for change runs the 20th and Be Lot and Part of a lot. And the Downtown San Diego Partnership Co runs a lot , and they're the main two nonprofits in charge.
S1: Got it. I mean , you talked about shelter beds and some of the differences that that this provides. You can , you know , stay with your partner , bring pets I think is another difference. But the city has long struggled with providing enough shelter beds. Right. What's that situation like today ? Is that still , you know , a problem ? Has it been eased at all ? Tell us about where we are with that.
S2: Yeah , it's not a great situation. The officials are definitely working on expanding capacity , but the vast majority of requests for a shelter bed in , well , the city of San Diego. But the whole region fails. So , for example , during a particularly bad month this year in May , we had , uh , let's see here , 2216 requests for shelter in the city of San Diego. More than 2200 asks of , please , can I get into a facility ? And 128 of those were successful. So that's gotten a little better in recent months , because several facilities that had halted intakes are now taking people. And again. But by and large , if you want a shelter bed in the city of San Diego , in the county of San Diego , there is very often not a place for you. Mhm.
S1: Mhm. I mean , you know with that this is not an easy question , but how do you characterize the state of homelessness in our region right now today ? I mean , you know , it's been about two years since this program got started. It's about the same amount of time that you've been covering this beat. So , yeah. Tell us about what you know. Your perspective is here.
S2: So on the one hand , I mean , there are there are success stories that are happening all the time. Going back to late 2021 , at least 600 homeless people get housing every single month in San Diego County , which is great. And a lot of months are way , way better than that. In July , I think you had more than a thousand homeless individuals in San Diego County getting housing. The reason you are not noticing encampments decreasing is because almost all of those months , more people became newly homeless in San Diego County than got a place to stay. So you are regularly seeing more than 1000 people every single month , newly ending up on the streets in their vehicles , having to stay at a friend's couch or starting to burn through their their savings and motels. And so just the tide. The tidal wave of people continuing to fall into this continues generally to outpace how many our system is able to help.
S1: And , you know , considering that , I mean , one metric that I think a lot of folks point to , I think , you know , you're well versed in this is the the point in time count. It's kind of an annual count , kind of check in on the state of homelessness in the region. And last year's count was done by the regional task Force on Homelessness.
S2: I do think there have been successes and improvements on a number of fronts. And so the fact that we're below that count was below 10,000 for the first time since , I think , before the pandemic. Like , great. Like , let's be happy about that. But we also need to acknowledge that count is doing a very specific thing. The federal government requires it. We have to do it. But that count says , how many people can a small army of volunteers find in a couple hours on one day on in the year ? And there are a bunch of other ways to also try to quantify the crisis. The one that absolutely knocks me flat is. Schools throughout the region also issue questionnaires to families to check their housing status. And what's great about this is this is not this is able to capture all the people who are not necessarily in the bed of a truck , who are not in a tent , but who are again , burning through savings in motels , who are sleeping on the floors or couches of friends like people you would not otherwise see. And those numbers , the number of children who are in unstable housing situations really do not have homes and are homeless. That number is going up. So in the last fiscal year , San Diego County had 19,841 homeless children. That does not count. Parents , that is only the kids. And that that is a significant increase from the prior academic year. Wow.
S1: Wow. So there's a lot of different metrics here that you look at to kind of assess a problem. That one's definitely startling. So you know , as we mentioned this program has been about two years on now , the safe sleeping program we've been talking about. You've been covering homelessness for about that same time.
S2: As best we can tell , are staying with friends or in hotels motels. You are not seeing them in the tents. They are not on the street corner. The they are homeless , but you would never ever know if you were passing them in the grocery store. My son recently started kindergarten and I am dropping him off at school , knowing that some of the families around me are homeless and but they're they're able to continue to shower. They still have their vehicles , they're able to go to their jobs. If anyone listening to this has recently been at a gym , a YMCA , 24 Hour Fitness , whatever , some of the people around you are homeless. They have kept their gym membership so they can shower before work , but they are doing everything they can to not , quote unquote , look homeless. And that that I think continues to really knock me flat. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. You know , another development over the last couple years has been some more emphasis placed on other cities outside of just San Diego and the county.
S2: Most homelessness services are in the city of San Diego , but we are seeing more movement in other places around the county to expand services. Today , the county of San Diego is reopening a safe parking lot for homeless folks in unincorporated El Cajon. Vista just opened up a new facility for homeless young adults. They've also got the rescue mission. They're looking for a building to launch another facility. So there is movement. I mean , this stuff takes time. Uh , it can take a long , long time. Not just to set up a shelter. We're not even talking about the long term housing , but there is absolutely movement there. There are absolutely things to celebrate.
S1: Well , that kind of long term housing is always like an important piece , but it's always like we got to get , you know , through the first few steps. Can you talk a little bit about how that has progressed or you know , what that looks like today ? Because that's always a piece that's pointed to like , we got to , you know , with these safe sleeping sites , they're kind of a stopgap , as you mentioned , right. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. And that is this is to bring it back to the safe sleeping argument. Proponents of the of the program would say , we have to. We got to get people out of these street encampments now and take them to a place where there is it's voluntary program , but take them to a place where there's bathrooms and showers in case managers can be there , so on and so forth. And I would note this lawsuit from these residents is not asking that the program be shut down. They're just saying we are being treated horribly on multiple fronts and we've got to reform the program.
S1: So yeah , talking about the lawsuit , I mean , what's next ? What's the next step for it ? Yeah.
S2: The I don't even believe the initial hearing has been scheduled yet. Some of the past lawsuits that these attorneys have worked on. Sometimes they took years , and then they often result in very , very complicated settlements. But again , many of these attorneys have negotiated settlements with elected officials before , with city officials before that has increased protections for homeless residents. So.
S1:
S2: But if someone's car is broken down , they just need money for for an apartment deposit. Uh , these programs have recently been pretty successful in making it so either someone doesn't lose housing in the first place , or is only homeless for a few weeks , and when you can head off some of the longer stays on the streets weeks , months , whatever you are heading off. So much trauma. You're also literally saving money. I mean , the if when police do not have to or are not patrolling those areas when the cleaning crews aren't coming in to clean sidewalks. I mean , it's it's honestly cheaper. And so I'm very interested , especially at a time of budget cuts and changing federal policies. If there is more investment on the prevention and diversion front.
S1: We'll continue following your reporting there. I've been speaking with Blake Nelson. He covers homelessness for the San Diego Union Tribune. Blake , thanks.
S2: Thanks for having me.
S1: When we come back , San Diego's senior population continues to grow. What does it mean for the region's future ? That's ahead on roundtable. You're listening to KPBS roundtable , I'm Andrew Bracken. San Diego's population is aging in a demographic shift that mirrors many other parts of the nation and the world. The share of older people in our region is far outpacing that of other groups. So how ready is San Diego to handle this historic shift ? Here to talk more is Wil Hansberry. He is a senior investigative reporter with Voice of San Diego. So will to celebrate Voice of San Diego's 20th anniversary. You all have been doing this , you know , look into San Diego's future. You chose to look at the graying of San Diego's population. Lay it out for us.
S3: Yeah , yeah. Okay. Let me. I'll hit you with a boatload of stats here. I mean , historically , the US , San Diego , we've had a lot more young people than old people , but that is shifting in a major way. And we are just at the beginning , over just a three year period between 2020 and 2023. San Diego 65 plus grew 9%. All other demographics shrank and that was just in three years. So this is really going to start happening to us fast that this shift is happening. And in San Diego in particular , this phenomenon is really heightened as something we're going to have to think about and deal with because of our affordability crisis. So you've got 2 in 5 seniors currently who cannot afford to make ends meet based on the elder index here in San Diego. Um , and , you know , you part of part of the reason that's happening is , uh , home ownership that's historically been something that kept old people stable. Right. But , um , you know , here in San Diego , the amount of seniors who own their home , it's shrinking the amount of seniors who've paid off their home by age 65. It's shrinking so they don't have the equity we historically associate with them. And you know , last stat I'll throw at you here. Blake was just in here talking about homelessness. Um , 30% , basically a third of all homeless people are 55 and up , and that is growing. That is not a static number that just keeps going up and up and up. So you've got this musical chairs of housing in San Diego where there's not that much housing to go around. Tons of people trying to get at it and seniors are getting left out. One example in Ramona , there was a home for seniors that was affordable fixed income like mandated low rents , 62 units there. Very quickly the waiting list was 5000 people. So there is a huge logistical challenge here.
S1: And it's , you know , something we've kind of talked about is just how many stories here in San Diego come down ultimately to housing , or that's like a big part of it here. And it's interesting. You know , you talk about , you know , the struggles of older folks in housing. But , you know , just today in the San Diego Union-Tribune , reporter Philip molnar wrote an article about a study that found San Diego has the second oldest homeowners in the nation. So and that kind of was one thing I wanted to ask you about is I do feel like there's this sort of generational debate going on , but , you know , it's like , say the okay boomers thing. Yes.
S3: Yes. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. But just this sort of feeling from younger generations that like , hey , y'all had it the best. And now we're struggling to make ends meet. But but what your case kind of points out to is it's , it's also a senior population that's struggling with this affordability crisis we're in. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. It's not it's not as simple as um okay Boomer you know have fun in your in your big , nice house in Rancho Santa Fe , right ? I mean , there is an aspect of that clearly. Um , people were much more likely to own homes. They were much more likely to be able to afford homes. Um , but now I think that two and five stat really sticks out to me. 2 in 5 elders can't afford to live here. They are not people with like extra space and interest , extra income who have like pulled up the ladder on younger people. I mean that that is a big reaction to the piece that I was surprised at. You know , there was a lot of people on Reddit who were kind of leaning into this generational animosity right there. Like , the seniors had it good. The seniors had the houses. Like , I'm not here to give them sympathy.
S1: Yeah , yeah. No , it's something I see across social media a lot. It's like a really common thing. I mean , another thing you write about here is this , you know , you call it the invisibility of older people , just just in our society. Um , but you find it's like , you know , a little bit different. Not the case in all subgroups. Talk more about that.
S3: Yeah , yeah , yeah. I mean , I really wanted to get at the more ethereal problems of aging in the US. You know , it feels it can feel a little bit like , you know , your prime has passed you. You've kind of been used up. It feels a little like on the whole , we have a little bit of a tendency , if not a lot of a tendency to look past old people. But as you said , that's not equally true among subcultures. You know , Latino culture , Asian culture , there's a lot more respect for elders. Elders are a lot more likely to live in the home. Um , but it's also not as simple as that. You know , the prevailing culture here seems to be affecting , um , Latino and Asian culture as well. Um , there's a phenomenon called elder orphans. Those are literally the most invisible of elders. And they , uh , you know , live alone or potentially homeless. And they don't have children , they don't have friends. They're just completely isolated. One study found that , um , Latinos and Asians were more likely than white people and black people to , um , be elder orphans. So , you know , it's it's complicated and , and it is affecting different subcultures differently. But I think I argued in the piece and I think it's true , I think on the whole , in this country we've got an invisibility problem and we need to start wrestling with that. I think we need to start seeing elders as a resource people , you know , who we can look to for advice and to take part in our culture. And I think if we start to make them more visible , we'll probably start to think about these policy problems more.
S1: Well , that's what I want to , you know , jump into. Because one thing I really liked about your piece is you kind of lay out the problem , but you really spend some time talking about potential real world solutions. So , I mean , you know , in the piece you spoke with Paul Downey , he was the former head of the nonprofit serving seniors for a long time. And he told you , quote , instead of viewing old people as a problem , we have to view them as a resource like you mentioned. Tell us more about what he shared with you and what you took from that.
S3: Yeah , I think , you know , the first step is kind of like philosophical and existential in terms of seeing them as a resource. But I think very quickly we can move that into the realm of like the material real world problems facing us. Child care is when I wrote about , you know , we have a child care crisis going on in San Diego. It's been written about ad nauseam almost. Right. We're all very aware of it.
S1: It's the costs continue to go up. I think in the last , like inflation numbers , child care was one cost that they pointed to.
S3: Yeah , totally. And and we have these elders without a sense of purpose , alone and lonely. You know , I think we need to start getting creative really quick. And so one creative solution is how about we create like , child care and elder centers , you know , where , uh , elders can just be if they want to , but they can also volunteer if they're , you know , able and willing to do that and probably pass a background check and whatever else we want to attach to it. But like , why can't we kind of combine these two phenomenons that are also crises and come up with a solution ? You know.
S1: Have you seen examples of that , like in other cities , other countries ? I mean , as we mentioned , this.
S3: Is I need to try. Not.
S1: Not. I'm.
S3: I'm.
S1: Not isolated to San Diego. Right ? I mean , yeah.
S3: No , no , of course not. And I think , you know , places , um , like Japan and Korea that I think they have experimented with a lot more creative solutions , you know. Right. Because this is a phenomenon that's going on everywhere. And , you know , in Korea they have they literally have like famous demographers because everyone's so tuned in to this problem and we're just not tuned into it yet here. And that was one of the really exciting things about writing the piece. It's like , okay , we really do need to tune in. And actually , I mean , some conservatives are really starting to tune in , right ? Part of what's going on here is the declining birthrate. And that's why this demographic shift is happening. So you have people like Elon Musk and JD Vance who are like pushing for us to have more kids. And so I don't know if everybody thinks that's the solution at all. In fact , I know that it's not. But I think that they see it as a crisis. Is is diagnosing a phenomenon correctly , you know ? Right. Um , and I think we do need to start thinking about that phenomenon. You can say you want to have more kids. That's one way to deal with it.
S1: Um , immigration is another form that's been.
S3: It's absolutely huge in this whole debate. I mean , um , you know , we're currently trying to stop immigration and push , um , you know , immigrants out of the country. Um , you know , who takes care of our elders ? It's by and large , immigrants. Um , so , so that's got to be reckoned with as well.
S1: So let's talk more about some of these creative solutions. Um , you know , in here , you , you profile one nonprofit called Elder help. Talk about their mission. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. Elder help is really cool. They do a lot of different things. Um , when it comes to serving seniors. But the the part of the program that I was really interested in , um , was house sharing. And so , you know , as you just talked about and I think you mentioned it in your earlier segment , you know , we do have a lot of older homeowners with a pretty high average age , and those are the people sitting on our stock of housing with two and three bedrooms in it. Yeah.
S1: Extra space. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. And so the so elder help is pairing people together. Um , they're getting , you know , you've got these elders who are lucky enough to own a home , but they're on a fixed income. They don't have a lot of income. They're probably socially , socially isolated. You get another senior living with them and you're helping fix their income problem , and you're helping fix the the social isolation problem for two people. I'm not normally this Pollyanna and I talk about my reporting and stuff , but there's like a lot of things we could be doing here that would that are that are really hopeful. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And that's great. I mean , your , your piece ends actually kind of with a call to action to , you know , take action and talk with folks , talk with older folks. I'm just curious , you know , have you found yourself. Have you found ways to do that ? You know , recently since you've written about the piece , like , how is that how has that come about in your own life ? Yeah.
S3: You know , I'm really , um. I've been talking to a couple of people about figuring out ways to volunteer with. With older people I'm considering volunteering for for elder help is one thing I'm thinking about doing. So I am trying to , like , take my own advice. You know , I was really lucky I got to spend like , a lot of time with my grandparents when I was younger. I've always loved talking to older people and hearing their stories. And yeah , I kind of ended the piece on that note , like we're all , you know , a secret here. None of us really , like , know what we're doing when it comes to this life , right ? We're all kind of doing our best as we go. Old people know that better than anybody. They've got more advice than anybody. Like , sit down with them. Tell them your stories. Listen to their stories. Like , I think we'll all just be better off for it. And it's not that hard.
S1: And yet , you know , as you mentioned , like there is some challenge of kind of creating spaces where that's just more organic and kind of because I was thinking about it in my own life , like the coffee shop near my house , things like that. But there is a lot of work to do. That's what made your , you know , your idea of this childcare senior , you know , integrate , you know , kind of integrating those two especially.
S3: We've got cat cafes and that's great. But like why can't we have a senior cafe.
S1: You know earlier you mentioned , you know , some of these debates between generations here. You kind of talked about seeing stuff on Reddit. I mean , talk to me about what's the reaction been like to the story , because I saw a few of the comments. And I do think this is one of those things that really kind of , you know. People.
S3: People.
S1: React to , you.
S3: Know , people really reacted to it. And , you know , there were a lot of people like , yes , love your seniors. Let's think more about our seniors. And that was awesome. But but I was surprised by some comments that really got lifted up and read it with like a lot of upvotes with like , you know , I'm not giving it was like , I'm not giving these elders my sympathy Like they came here , they got theirs. And now they're like , not trying to make room for me to get mine. And you know , I jumped in the comments a little bit , maybe foolishly , but , um , you know , I was.
S1: Always a risky.
S3: Pilot , always risky , you know , and I , I mentioned the 2 in 5 statistic to them. I mentioned the 30% homeless. I'm like , I don't think all seniors look like you think they look. You know what I mean ? Um , they're they're homeless. They're , uh , not affording their grocery bill. They're not affording , um , their prescription medications. And the person responded , well , there's three and five who are affording it. So that's who I'm focused on. And I was like , wow , I got nothing for that.
S1: But I mean , it does point to this kind of larger issue that's kind of undergirding this whole thing , which is affordability , right ? You know , across demographics , across age groups. Yes.
S3: Yes. We've got to fix that in this region. You know , it's it's it's an issue for school children like Blake was just talking about. It's an issue for seniors. The affordability crisis in San Diego is at the heart of everything.
S1:
S3: You know , um , there's just how difficult it is to build senior housing. That's one thing I'm really interested in and how people get on those waiting lists. Who gets in those homes ? Um , I'd like to start covering that a lot more.
S1: Will Hansberry is a senior investigative reporter with Voice of San Diego. You can find his article on this coming senior population boom at Voice of San Diego. It's a really interesting piece. I think it's got me thinking , and I think a lot of people kind of , I don't know. It'll be interesting to see what comes of it. So Will , thanks for talking more about it today.
S3: Of course. Thanks , Andrea.
S1: Coming up , we check in on other stories we've been following from the week in news. The roundups next. You're listening to KPBS roundtable. Welcome back to KPBS roundtable. I'm Andrew Bracken. It's time now for our weekly roundup to talk about a few other stories we've been following this week. And joining me to do that is KPBS producer Juliana Domingo. Hey , Juliana.
S4: Hey , Andrew. It's good to be on Ronda. Good day. My debut.
S1: Yeah , right. That's right. So I wanted to start with a story from KPBS , Tami Murga. Other outlets have been covering this because it's a pretty important story. A new study confirms poor air quality as a result of these cross-border sewage flows in the South Bay. The study was published in science earlier this week , and it just confirmed what a lot of South Bay residents have been complaining about over several years now that these cross-border sewage flows not only are impacting the water quality , but also the quality of the air. This research was done by a number of organizations , including scientists from Scripps Institution of Oceanography. Kim Prather was involved and it found hydrogen sulfide in the air. And that's a toxic gas. It has an odor pretty distinct. I think Tammy describes it as , you know , rotten egg , like so , you know. Again , it just confirms some of these complaints from residents. They've complained of health impacts and headaches and coughing. Other health issues that have led to to some , you know , distribution of air purifiers. But this is kind of , you know , some hard data here showing that it is , in fact , in the air and it's impacting the health down there in South Bay. Yeah.
S4: Yeah. And I mean , it's really been elevated as this kind of national emergency , this national crisis. Right. Um , I remember , um , Imperial Beach Mayor , um , now a district one county supervisor , Paloma Aguirre , really kind of pushing for more federal support on on this and the sewage crisis because as you mentioned , it is impacting so many residents. And as someone who lives in the South Bay , as someone who lives in Chula Vista and knows a lot of people who are personally impacted , I mean , this is a real kind of crisis , an issue. I don't think it is an overstatement to call it a crisis just because of the health impacts. And as you mentioned , and as these studies are kind of revealing , it can have more of a widespread impact on the rest of the region than the rest of the county. So definitely something I think that's important to , to , you know , really highlight. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. And we keep hearing , you know , there are these infrastructure projects happening on both sides of the border , but there's still kind of a push for needing more resources , more movement. So we'll see if that , you know , this latest kind of data study helps kind of propel that forward.
S4: And another story I wanted to highlight. And this is on a more cultural note , there's a really cool feature from Daylight San Diego. And they launched pretty recently. and I know we had them on the show before , right ? Um , they recently highlighted this , um , new team actually called Mind on Basketball at San Diego's newest professional basketball franchise. It launched just over eight weeks ago , and it's our only American Basketball Association Association league team , also known as the ABA. And for some history on the ABA that I actually didn't know about. And funnily enough , as someone who follows a little bit of basketball , it was just really kind of interesting context to to learn about how this was actually the Premier League before the NBA bought it out in the 70s. So part of the goal of this new team , mind on basketball is to make the ABA a Premier League again. And I also really like the headline for this feature. It was called hoops with a Higher Purpose , because the team is also really focused on building community and sort of cultivating the next generation of players. And I thought that philosophy was really cool , of just trying to build resilience and tenacity with kids and young men who they recruit and who also are playing in the league. And I also just love to see how San Diego's sports scene is really flourishing. I feel like there's a new team kind of , you know , every so often that pops up. So it's just really awesome to see.
S1: Yeah , yeah. No you're right. And we've talked about this. There's , there's there's so many different teams like new sports. There's a rugby team I went to a game last year. There's there's so much happening. But on this I mean it's interesting timing because our colleague Beth Accomando actually just highlighted a new documentary that it's showing at the digital gym. You know , this weekend. It tells the story of the ABA and its players. Um , and , you know , the ABA was kind of this , you know , like alternative to the NBA for a lot of folks. It's famous for its red , white and blue ball. Also like the pace of play I think was historically just like quicker and more exciting until they merged with the NBA. So , um , I mean , you and I are both kind of hoop. You know , we both like basketball.
S4: I say I dabble a little bit. Yeah.
S1: So we should go to it. We should go a game. I want to check this out. Yeah.
S4: Yeah. Totally.
S1: Totally. Cool.
S4:
S1: I know we missed. You.
S4: You. There.
S1: There. Yeah.
S4: Yeah.
S1: I mean , you know , because you're one of. I think I associate you with books more than anyone. And. Yeah , we missed you there. But next year.
S4: Hopefully next year. Totally. It'll be priority number one for me. But yeah , our arts and culture podcast , The Finest , actually did a live taping there. So that's how I was able to get a little bit of a taste of the festival. Um , so they featured two local authors , Emily Greenberg , who is the author of a short story collection called Alternative Facts , and also Moses Osteotomy , who wrote this fantasy series. It's the Forever Desert trilogy. Um , and Emily's short story collection features characters drawn from our real world today. It actually starts with one long run on sentence from Kellyanne Conway , who was the figure who coined this term an alternative facts. And I haven't read Moses's work yet , but it's a fantasy series rooted in West African mythology. And so although they are both , you know , very different genres , they talked about kind of their craft and also , you know , creating myths and how each of their storytelling intersects despite working in these different genres. And I really love just hearing , um , I really loved what Moses said specifically about how he uses fantasy to essentially make the abstract into something more concrete. And I just thought the way that Julia was really drawing the parallels between their different works and how they're , you know , really diving into this idea of , of fiction. And by fiction , I mean lies and what it means to , um , you know , live in what they. Call.
S1: Call.
S4: And stuff. Exactly the meaning of truth and what , um. I guess we now live in the quote unquote post-truth era and what that kind of means. And so , um , it's just been really , you know. Right. Um , it is it is a bit of a depressing thought , but , um , I just loved hearing two really great authors talk about how they're tackling this in their respective genres and in their respective stories. So yeah , I was really bummed to miss the book festival , but it was nice to get a little taste of it through that podcast episode.
S1: So yeah , and I mean , it was really the book festival was great just to see how many folks were there. I got a chance to do a talk with an author , and it was the first one of the day. And then I walked out afterwards and just saw so many people there. It was really cool. Although I have to temper it with , you know , an article I read around the same time as the book festival , ironically enough , which is I read this in The Guardian , but this kind of , you know , there was a study published , it came , you know , from the American Time Youth Survey , but it's just basically documented this decline in recreational reading in the US. It found a 40% drop in the amount of time folks are reading recreationally over the last couple of decades. So , you know , a few percentage drop each year just has a lot less people reading for fun right now. Um , and , you know , it got me thinking about how many books I'm reading and should I be , you know. Should I be reading more ? How can I be reading more ? And definitely the book festival kind of helped me , but it also got me thinking. I mean , I also , you know , I read , but I also read books on audio. But is that reading ? Does that count ? Can I count that as like read books if it's an audiobook ? Yeah.
S4: I mean , I think this is a major point of discussion and a major , major point of debate. I mean , it's something that I've talked about , like so many times with my fellow reader friends and my personal take , I don't want to call it a hot take because I feel like it's a pretty popular one , but I think it totally counts as reading. You do. You're still , in my eyes , consuming a story. Um , if it's fiction or if it's nonfiction , you're still learning something. Um , but no , I definitely think it's reading and I will die on that hill , so. Yeah.
S1: Oh , that's that's interesting because I'm pretty on. I'm not sure really like how I feel about it , but I definitely do , you know , incorporate audiobooks more into my my reading regimen , like it or not , you know , honestly.
S4: And I think , honestly , anything that gets you reading , I think that still counts as reading. I mean , what you cited earlier about how , um , adults in the US are just less likely to to read. I mean , I think audiobooks are still a really accessible medium to be able to do that. So , um , that's that's just personally my take.
S1: Well , our senior producer , Brook , um , does not agree with you , but we'll talk more about that. Um , well , yeah , that'll do it for a round up. This week. I've been speaking with KPBS producer Juliana Domingo. Juliana.
S4: Thanks , thanks.
S1: That'll do it for our show today. Thanks so much for listening to KPBS roundtable. You can catch the show anytime as a podcast. KPBS roundtable airs on KPBS FM at noon on Fridays again Sundays at 6 a.m.. If you have any thoughts on today's show , you can email us at a roundtable at KPBS. Org. You can also leave us a message at (619) 452-0228. Roundtables. Technical producers this week were Brandon Truffaut and Ben Redlich. The show was produced by Juliana Domingo. Brooke Rooth is roundtable senior producer. I'm your host , Andrew Bracken. Thanks again for listening and have a great weekend.
