S1: It's time for KPBS Midday Edition. On today's show the life and legacy of Doctor Martin Luther King Jr. I'm Jade Hindman with conversations that keep you informed , inspired , and make you think. We'll talk with one theologian about how he reflects on Doctor Martin Luther King Jr. S legacy in 2026. Plus , hear from Leonard Thompson McLaren , founder of Mandate Records and winner of this year's Human Dignity Award. Then we look back on an interview I did with Martin Luther King the third. That's ahead on Midday Edition. Each year on Martin Luther King Jr Day , we reflect on the Reverend's legacy and commemorate his fight for racial and economic justice. But before we get to our show today , there's no one more important to hear from than Martin Luther King Jr himself. Here's an excerpt from his last speech , I've Been to the mountaintop , which he delivered the night before his assassination on April 4th , 1968.
S2: Like anybody , I would like to live a long life. Longevity has its place , but I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do God's will. And he's allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over and I've seen the promised land. I may not get that with you ? But I want you to know tonight that we as a people will get to the promised Land.
S1: Well , today we enter the holiday during a politically and socially turbulent time in the U.S. and amid recent efforts to undermine King's legacy. So what can we continue to take away from his teachings and values in 2026 ? Well , this next hour we'll explore just that. I'm joined by Monty Williams. He's a professor of church , culture and society at Point Loma Nazarene University and director of the Pilgrim Innovation Hub. He's also the author of the book Church and Color Youth Ministry , race , and the Theology of Martin Luther King , Jr. Professor Williams joins me now. Welcome back to the show.
S3: Thanks a lot. It's great to be here , Jade.
S1: Glad to have you here. So , you know , I know you've been studying King for a long time , but I'm curious to know what's been your relationship to his teachings.
S3: I mean , I grew up seeing King's books on my dad's shelf and watching documentaries , but in this 20th century theological ethics course , I noticed King wasn't on the syllabus. So I asked the professor about that. You know , how come King is not on the syllabus ? And he said , well , King's not really an ethicist. And so I decided to make my A term project that year a focus on why King should have been on the syllabus. And while doing that , I became more and more connected , more and more engaged , and more and more appreciative of what King offered. Uh , his his work engaged the very questions , uh , the dilemmas that that's , uh , ran through 20th century theological ethics. And not only did he give answers on paper and in speeches , he sought to embody it and help people embody it.
S1:
S3: Um , a lot of people sing the song. I mean , we sing the song at birthday parties , but Stevie Wonder wrote the song for Martin Luther King Day , not just for King , but to make the day a holiday. It was an activism based song. And , uh , even with one of my classes , I , we've been reflecting on the lyrics of that song , the purpose of the song and how these days , while they become normal to us , they actually take a great deal of work to make happen. And then you have to reflect on why the day existed , why people like Stevie Wonder and many other , many others worked for it , but then also the work it takes to keep it alive , because you don't want to just let it become a day that you just go get a deal on a car. You know you want to let it be a day where you reflect on the things that matter.
S1: Well to you.
S3: I , in my own personal life , has a lot to do with the kinds of conversations I have with my family. But , you know , King's work is not only about personal reflection , and yet it is. And it's not only about making social change , but it is. It's that intersection of the two becoming the kind of people who can imagine together a certain kind of shared hope. I think for King , he really he really believed. He put everything on the line with the belief that if each person really listens deeply , listens deeply to what he might call the ultimate force of love , what his mentor , Howard Thurman , would call the sound of the genuine. But if you listen deeply , you might have this inkling , this flicker of this shared hope that connects with other human beings. And I think in this moment , when things truly are turbulent , people grab a king to fit them into to their own agenda. But King really was calling for a particular kind of society , a particular kind of community , where people across all lines of difference could really come together , seek mutual benefit. And for us to to live into that takes a deep kind of reflection and commitment to a shared hope. That's not just about me , not just about my home , but about my neighbors as well. Mhm.
S1: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. He was , you know , fighting for , for um equity and justice particularly uh economic at that point in time. So I mean , you know , in his fight against economic and racial injustice , King really advocated for this also this idea of a beloved community.
S3: Being willing to see them as human beings and working for the kind of society , even policies that allows yourself and allows each other to see each other as human beings created in the image of God.
S1: And how does his idea of a beloved community really continue to live on today ? In your eyes.
S3: As you noted , you know it is a turbulent time. I think this idea of a shared hope. The idea that we could have a shared hope is is heavily contested right now. What that shared hope is , is heavily contested. We don't have , uh , we don't have the guide like that , you know. And so right now it really takes people coming together , getting to know each other , having some of the harder conversations , but also the deeper kind of relationships and pursuing them together so that we can get to name those shared hopes. Now , I do think that if we took time not just to allow ourselves to say what you know , a political party leader might call for. But if we took time to reflect on what we really think matters , we do come to to see things like the beloved community. It's just the question of whether or not we'd do the work to get there , whether or not we'd give up the things we have to give up to get there. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. You know , your book , Church in Color , looks at Martin Luther King Jr's theology and how congregations can recognize and wrestle with the realities of race , racism , and racial identity.
S3: There's all there's so much attempt to try to get around the conversation , but what happens ? It just leaves a wound that festers and that eventually takes over. And I think , you know , this. That's that's something that can connect beyond congregations. But congregations do have a unique responsibility to begin pointing to this kind of shared hope , but also doing that spiritual work that's needed to let us become the kind of people who live it out and who are committed to living it out every day.
S1: Yeah , well , you know , I want to zoom in on King's legacy here locally because he made several notable visits to San Diego , including at Point Loma Nazarene , where you currently teach. Um , and of course , this was back when it was known as Cal Western , though.
S3: Now , the reality is , even though he came , spoke here , did a tour around here generated a great deal of crowd. Some of the crowds are actually very much opposed to him , and what he was calling for regarding the Rumford Act actually failed now. California courts and the Supreme Court ended up overturning that. But what we do find is that when he came , you know , we often think of King as simply a hero. But when he came to San Diego , he was not exactly welcomed. And during that very time , he was also working across the country in a little town in Florida where he was coming face to face with some of the worst , most violent responses to civil rights movements that he had faced up to that point. And so while here he was beginning to see , um , that his his way of talking about change and hope also has to come to terms with the fact that there are many people who are opposed to it. Hmm.
S1: Hmm.
S3: Um , what do I see ? Parallels. Well , yes. I mean , we do see parallels today , uh , regarding , um , calls and resistance to the kind of just community King was working for. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Well , you've done , you know , a lot of research on youth movements and ministries.
S3: There's a great deal of interest in trying to make sense of what the world is going on and trying to find a deep sense of meaning and purpose , belonging. And you know , what King offers is a multi-layered invitation into thinking about the things that matter , that everybody is created in the image of God , that there can be a shared hope that we work to. Everybody is somebody. And the other thing that King really proposed , even in his doctoral dissertation , is that this , this work that we're talking about is not just grabbing it from inside your body and trying to impose it on others. It is a deep listening to something bigger than ourselves. Like I said , his mentor would talk about the sound of the genuine. King often talked about this ultimate force of love , which he connected to a theology of Holy Spirit , the theology of God being alive and active and at work. Uh , linguistically , you can you can talk about that in a variety of ways. But from King's take , from a Christian perspective , this is not just about me mustering up the will. It's about trusting that there's guidance , that love is guiding us and we can tap into that.
S1: You know , you also help faith based organizations go on pilgrimages and , you know , many of which are directly inspired by King. Talk about that. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. So the work I'm doing with the Pilgrimage Innovation Hub , we help congregations all across the country participate in pilgrimages where young people , youth and young adults get to encounter some of their deepest questions. And a good amount of them want to engage places where they can think about race , racism , racial identities , and make ethical meaning in the midst of that. Well , we also find is these raised some of the hardest questions , because even though we hear words like race or racism or racial identity a lot , it isn't that common for people to dig into those topics and to really try to understand where these concepts come from. How does race impact us ? How does racism still impact things today , how the previous racism impacts things today as well , and what this means for our sense of identity and belonging. It generates important conversations. Sometimes it's pilgrimages with parents and teens going together to have conversations they've never had before. Sometimes it's mentors or coaches or pastors , but we try to center young people's questions and experiences along the way. Wow.
S1: Wow. Well , you know , I we are so appreciative of your time and coming here and reflecting on the legacy of Doctor Martin Luther King Jr. And I've been speaking with Monty Williams , Professor of Church Culture and Society at Point Loma Nazarene University. He's also the author of the book Church in Color Youth Ministry , race , and the Theology of Martin Luther King , Jr. Professor Williams , thank you so much.
S3: It's been an honor. Thank you. Jade.
S1: Still to come here from Leonard Thompson , the third founder of Mandate Records and winner of the 2026 Human Dignity Award. More when KPBS Midday Edition returns. You're listening to KPBS Midday Edition , I'm Jade Hindman. The Jackie Robinson YMCA hosted its annual Martin Luther King Junior Breakfast last Friday to pay tribute to King's legacy. Now , each year at the breakfast , two community members are chosen for a Human Dignity Award. It's a recognition of their character and commitment to service , and one of the honorees is local community leader Leonard Thompson , the third. He is the founder and CEO of Mandate Records. It's a record label , nonprofit and production company here in San Diego. He is also a minister and leading voice in Christian radio , among many other things. And last Friday , KPBS producer and roundtable host Andrew Bracken sat down with Thompson to talk about his life's work in ministry , music and education. Here's that conversation.
S4: So you're one of this year's Human Dignity Award winners. Congratulations. Talk to me about what makes winning this award so special to you.
S5: Well , thank you so much. I think what makes it so important and special is that it is an award that is voted on by the community and the people that came before me and that were part of the Human Dignity Award winners were just so phenomenal and such great leaders that I'm humbled to be even included in that class of people. But it means a lot , because all my life we've done is service , you know , from growing up in the church and everything that I do now , I tell people I was doing in the church , we learned how to play instruments in the church. We learned how to do TV production at church. We learned how to tour. I started touring when I was 12 years old and doing big productions and making sure that everything was in place , from lights to sound to everything. And so as I began to grow in my career and see the need not only for the church community , but for also creating an environment for young people to have crafts and services , we began to train and teach and build companies around the entertainment business , as well as about ministry , because we are a gospel label that explored and grew into doing jazz and other genres.
S4: I mean , you mentioned the importance church has had on your life and just all these different things , but music is such an important piece of that. And that's , you know , um , I think there's something unique about music that can really connect us to our feelings , but even to our faith. I'm wondering if you can talk about that connection between the church and your love of music.
S5: Well , they say that , you know , music is a universal language , and no matter where you go , people love good music. And in the Christian genre , in the gospel genre , there's everything else. You hear blues , you hear R&B , you hear rap , you hear classical , and you hear all of the genres of music that you can hear in Christian music. But here's the beautiful thing is , as I travel around the world and I go to different places that don't speak English , they love gospel music. And not only do they love gospel music , but they sing it almost as if they knew English is their first language. And so going over to Japan and work with the Japanese choir and hearing them sing , a legendary artist like Edwin Hawkins or Walter Hawkins and had all the inflections , all the sounds and everything. And then when I went to shake their hands and said , you were wonderful , and they began to speak Japanese to me because they knew how to sing gospel and sing in English , but they didn't know how to speak English. But it resonated with their soul , and I find that to be true everywhere we go. We are always invited over to the wineries to do concerts of gospel music. Everybody speaks Spanish , but they want that gospel sound and you hear them saying , hey , Susan , they they really gravitate to it because there's a a vibe. Anytime that you lift up God's name and if when you do it through music and they feel it in their heart and in their soul , they gravitate to that music. So that's powerful.
S4: And I want to talk more about the music , because I feel like there's a lot more there. And we'll take a maybe listen to a little bit of it too. But I want to first talk a little bit more about you and your upbringing. You've dedicated , you know , so much of your life to ministry. We talked about music and education. Take me back to where it all started.
S5: and the village that I grew up in was in southeastern San Diego. The skyline area fell out. Shout out to Black Oak Road and everybody took care of her. Took care of everybody. We looked out for each other and everybody wanted to see everyone do well. And so growing up in an environment of a safe neighborhood , a great community , and then also having a great church life , we were very fortunate. Um , I went to a Greater Jackson Memorial Church with God in Christ under the late Bishop Jay Blake , who was the second in in and what they say second on the general board to the presiding bishop. And so to have that type of leadership here in our city and uh , he always said that whatever you can do in the church , you can do in the world. So we were taught to always build things in excellence. And so we didn't just play instruments , but he came and he said , how many of you want to play instruments ? About a hundred of us raised her hand. He said , okay , be here next Saturday. He brought in a professor that was there to teach us how to play musical instruments. And then he bought everyone in the church that wanted to play in musical instrument , the instrument of their choice. And he said , I'm building a band and we're going to be excellent. And the crazy thing about it is about a month or so later , we were playing and we were playing in front of people and , you know , our home church. And then he says , oh , I have to go to LA , and I want the choir , I want the ushers , and I want my band to go. So we came and we were all excited , and we were going to say that we were going to be on yellow buses going up to LA to perform , and we get there. And he had chartered buses and the band had its own bus.
S4:
S5: And then , you know , I was about eight years old. Wow. And going up there and then going and playing for the very first time in front of 2000 people. And to have him be so excited about these young kids that were playing , um , he always came back and he said to us , what more ? And then we started talking about TV. And so he he built a full TV production studio , cameras , headsets , everything. And we learned that. So by the time I got to college , I had travel experience. I had a technical skill , but also I had exposure , um , being able to go from city to state and so on. Even when I went to school at UC Berkeley , I knew so many people that was always there because that was part of our travel tour. And so it was like going home.
S4: That exposure can really make a difference for a young person. And talk to me more about , you know , the work you're doing today and with young people to kind of keep that legacy going.
S5: Well , let me let you know that I'm a retired educator of 39 years. And when I came into San Diego Unified School District , I was hired as one of four men to create a program for the improvement achievement of African-American males. At that time , there was only 30 African-American males that had a 3.0 or better. And they said that. That's very sad in a district of our size. And they asked us and my colleagues if we could design a program to get more African-Americans engaged in school. One of the things that we found out when we began to work with these young men is that most of them had not been out of them , out of their neighborhood more than a mile , and they had not had any experiences more than a mile away from the community that they grew up in. And so we started doing cultural plunges , taking them to symphonies and taking them to the beach and taking them to restaurants and everything else just to expose them to a whole different lifestyle. And then we began to call them by the by the career that they said that they want to be. So if you told me you want to be a doctor , every time I saw you , I said , hello , Doctor Jones , you know , if you said you wanted to be a lawyer , I would say hello , attorney. And we began to address them that way. I had one that said , I want to be an all star football player. I said , all right , Mr. Athlete , what's your plan B ? You know what I'm saying ? Because you're not gonna be able to play forever. So we we begin to expose them to all the different crafts that were in their field of choice so that they had options. And so it was very important that the same experience I had and the world was open to us when we started in education , that was what we designed to do. So in our first year , we went from 30 young men to , I think , about 280 young men with 3.0 to better. And I look back now , I'm 60 years old , and I look back now , and I work with young people that have been in the program , that have businesses that are out of this world because they had a vision very , very early on. My head of production of my my company is a former student , and he produced the Jackie Robinson YMCA breakfast today. He was the director. And the funny thing he said to me is he said , we got this. Just relax and enjoy yourself. And these young people are so amazing that not only are they doing it here in San Diego , but they are now international. We have young people doing cartoons , we have an animation , we have young people at Disney World. We have young people in London producing. And so it's about exposing them. And tell them , get your get your passport. You know , you know , in some cases we'll pay for your passport , but you need to get your passport because we're going to travel.
S4: Opening up to what's possible. Exactly.
S5: Exactly.
S4: I mean , it's so important you mentioned , you know , about 40 years in education. I just , you know , kind of had to ask. I think , you know , we hear a lot about kids today versus back then. I mean , talk to me about what you see the needs of kids today. Has it changed from when you first started teaching ? You know , what have you noticed over time or kids ? The same. You know.
S5: I would say kids are the same , but the technology is different. Our young people today are exposed to way more than we can ever imagine. Everything is at a click of a finger Google a Google response away. And so some of the things that we had to work for and to study for and to explore now is just like ask Siri and Siri will tell you the question. And so in some cases , it has made our young people not as effectively , um , in their their hustle and their ability to work hard for certain things. But then I also say to us adults that we have been trying so hard to make things easier for our children , that sometimes we have stifled their growth because we made them. It made it too easy for them , and so they don't understand what it means to work hard. And so in this , in this day in education , same kids , her same challenges , uh , but we have to meet it with the same love. I always tell teachers because I'm still consulting. I said , if you kick a kid out of your class and send them to the principal's office , what you're telling that kid is the power is in the principal's office. But when you keep a kid in your class and said , hey , we're a family and we're going to be stuck together for a whole entire year , let's work this thing out. Because in your home , you don't get you kicked them out and send them to the principal's office. You have to deal with them because they're your very own. And so I encourage teachers as well as students , work it out and build a family unit within schools. And kids know this. If you care about them , kids , young people , you could be hard on them. You could you could be tough on them. But if they know that you care and that you have their back , they will do exactly what you challenge them to do. And I said to these kids when I first started the program , here is my number. I will never get rid of this number , because I always want you to know that you can call me. And every year I get kids that are 30 , 40 , 45 years old calling me , saying , hey , I just wanted to see if you still had the number. And I just recently got a call from a young man who said , I want to know I'm having a destination wedding if I fly you out , will you perform this ceremony ? And I said to him , I said , let me know and I will be there. So I'm actually going to marry very soon to marry one of my former students that is having a destination wedding. Who kept the number ? Incredible.
S4: Yes , incredible. I want to go back to music. We were kind of touching on it earlier , but Mandate Records , that's your label ? It's got a few branches to it. The record label itself , production and the non-profit piece.
S5: And while I was doing that , everybody was coming to me asking me because they knew I was in music and I knew music when I review contracts , and they were telling me all of the horror stories that they were having happened in LA and New York and how they were taken advantage of. And then I met my wife and my wife , who was an artist. We began to look at her contracts and she said , well , put it in best order. And what would be good for the for me as an artist ? And I looked at it , we did that. And then she said , you know what ? I feel that we need to build something for San Diego. And so we prayed about it , and we decided that we were not going to take any of the money , but we were going to build here in San Diego to help San Diego artists in the San Diego music scene , to grow and be in a fair , artist friendly environment. So that was the inception of Mandate Records. That stands for making a necessary difference at the end. And so that's what we started with , that whole premise that we were going to make a necessary difference at the end. And the first thing that we're going to do is build a studio so that we could take down the budget of trying to just record. Yeah.
S4: Yeah.
S5: And we went from there five years as a home based business , and we took over a home and turned it into a studio. And then 23 years up in Claremont , on Claremont Mesa Boulevard and now in our new facility on Ruffin Road. We went from A200 zero square foot facility on Claremont Mesa Boulevard to a 4000 square foot facility on Ruffin Road.
S4: Now we're going to take a listen to one of the artists from your label. This is Victoria x matthews with a little bit of her song anchored.
S5: Yes she is. She's amazing. We call it The Little Dynamo , and she has toured all over the world and still is doing it with Oral Roberts University , one of our artists. Still.
S2: Still.
S6: Surrounded Helena's most deep heart. Anchored with hope in you. Your presence wraps around. Lost in your perfect dreams of makers.
S4: Again , that was Victoria x Mathews with her song anchored. You call her Little Dynamo. Tell us more about her and some of the other artists you know.
S5: She comes from a phenomenal family. Her , both her mother and father , brothers , uh , all are in the music business. Producers. Uh , her brother actually won American Idols. Junior. Oh , wow. Back in the day , when they had that competition , he was on TV and she was there and she was about four years old going on five , and they said she was too young to compete in the contest. But Ryan Seacrest said , you're amazing because she could do all the moves , she could do all the notes and everything else. But she was too young to compete. And I remember sitting down with her mother one day and I said , you are phenomenal. Her mother was signed to our label. Uh , her husband was phenomenal. Uh , her brother was a producer for our label. And then her other brother went to the Berkeley School of Music. And I said , with all the talent that you have in your family. I said , the special oil , as I call it , it's on that little one. And she said , well , wait a minute. She can't even hold a note. I said , trust me , the special oil is on her. And fast forward to now. She is a major worship leader for Oral Roberts University and an instructor. She travels all over the world , uh , singing , uh , even for our label , but for the school , it has just made great impacts everywhere she goes. She is a dancer , singer , a minister and a professor.
S4: Well , so , you know , we've been talking a lot , you know , about all the different jobs , the hats you wear. You do a lot. But I want to bring it back to to your ministry. You once described your work. You know , all the things you do as different levels of that. Talk to me more about that and what that means to you.
S5: Well , everything I do is based in love and love for God's people , love for our community , and and love to see people be successful. And so everything we do from Mandate Records was is our for profit company. Uh , we we realized that we needed to also begin to train more and more young people. So we started Mandate Project Impact , which is our nonprofit. And then right before the pandemic , we had we have the longest running radio , uh , Christian radio music program in San Diego on KPRC. Um , uh , every Sunday morning , I called gospel on demand radio with Evangel and Walter Cole. And , um , everybody kept calling us to program their stations because our program director , uh , Evangel , she was known to pick hits out six months before they became hits. And so I said to her , I said , well , instead of us programming all these other stations , why don't we build a radio station right here and then let everybody around the world tune in ? So we came up with Gold Radio one , based out in San Diego. We are now heard in 71 countries with over 100,000 subscribers. And we're growing each and every day. The fun thing about it is that , um , we have won two stellar awards. We're the first first group , um , here in San Diego that has never even won , uh , one , but we've won two back to back stellar awards from where we consider the gospel Grammys and in ministry , everything that we do is about what does our community need ? Everybody said they wanted gospel 24 hours a day. Now they have gospel 24 hours a day , not only here in San Diego , but around the world. We built a brick and mortar station , so we built it as just a straight brick and mortar station that just happens to be on the internet. And , um , everybody comes in and says , well , well , you guys are on the internet and we got your apps and everything else , but you also have a radio station where people are coming in and actually doing a lot of interviews. But that was the need of our community. And when Covid hit , we immediately opened up the doors to every leader , from the mayor to the police , everybody to come in and talk to the people for hours just to reassure them that we're going to be here. And we became a first responder station and then moved on and to even to this very day , we believe in partnerships. So we have the San Diego voice and viewpoint. Every Wednesday , there's an hour show with Doctor John Warren from the deputy editor. We have shows that are designed to give people information on health and wealth , you know , saying and , uh , and we also have the great music. And , uh , we also wanted to make sure that young people felt like they had a voice. So we have shows strictly driven by young people. Uh , so that , that we really reach that's part of what we serve. So ministry and purpose is everything. And believe it or not , we use our space as an encouragement. There are some times that people are just depressed , and they want to come into a space where there's positive energy. And so we invite them up and put them in a studio and just tell them to sing. You know , they might sing , uh , on a different key , but I said , I want you to hear your voice and know that you matter. And so everything that we do with our companies and our ministry is to help people to know that they're valuable , they're worth , worth everything , and that they are heard and they are seen today.
S4: I mean , there's a lot happening in our world politically , socially. Um , across our nation. I'm just curious , you know , from where you stand.
S5: But if we sit at the table , as he said , to sit at the table of the brotherhood , and we break bread , and we begin to see how we can do it together , we will be a nation that people will look back and say , that's how it should be done.
S1: That was Leonard Thompson , the third founder of Mandate Records and winner of the 2026 Human Dignity Award. Speaking with KPBS producer and roundtable host Andrew Bracken. Up next , we look back on an interview I did with Martin Luther King. The third KPBS Midday Edition is back after the break. Welcome back to KPBS midday Edition. I'm Jade Hindman. You know , on Martin Luther King Jr Day , we honor Doctor King's vision for a diverse nation with economic opportunity and justice for all. It's the vision at the center of Doctor King's iconic I Have a Dream speech from the Lincoln Memorial Steps in 1963. While several years ago I had the honor of interviewing Martin Luther King Jr. S oldest son , Martin Luther King the third. We were at San Diego's Border Field State Park in 2018 to celebrate the 55th anniversary of his father's famous speech. And much like now , it was at a time where immigration and nonviolent resistance were top of mind. Let's take a listen to that conversation. You're here to commemorate your father's.
S7: 55th anniversary of that great march on Washington and the speech that he gave.
S8: My father often said. And as we observed this 55th anniversary , my family thought it was important to continue to highlight , uh , the issue around children and families being separated , as well as a broader discussion around immigration and how this nation chooses to move forward. And I think that when we look at where we were in 1963 , we were certainly a different nation. So today we are at a boiling point. So if we're angry on either side , that's not the answer. I think my father showed us a vision of how we can treat all people with dignity and respect. And that's what , uh , that's why it's important for us to be here today , to continue to raise a spotlight on this issue , because we are better than the behavior we're exhibiting as a nation.
S7:
S8: You can't put , um , violence , cannot put out violence. Only nonviolence can darkness cannot put out darkness , only light. And so those are the kind of things that he would personify , uh , that ultimately would help us , I believe , work through all of these issues and resolve them to help make America a better nation.
S7: Now , we've all we've often heard in this , in this climate that America has never been at this point before , uh , particularly when it when we when we see families being separated at the border. In some ways , though , this is this is history repeating itself. Um , talk to me about that.
S8: I don't know that anyone would have projected in 2012 or 13 that we would be , um , dealing with a situation where children and families were separated and , and it's difficult to find the , uh , to connect them back with their , uh , their families. I mean , I just think that That's the difference. Uh , it certainly if you if you go back in history and look at how , uh , when slavery existed , how families were divided. There are some sentiments , uh , as it relates to that. But that was a totally different era , many , many , many years ago. Uh , so , of course , in 2018 , I think the issue is we I don't think anyone could have predicted that this would be the case. And also , I know , I know that we are better. We as a nation , we as people , uh , as Americans , we are much better than the divisiveness that is being promoted and propagated throughout this nation.
S7:
S8: In fact , it's it's operating at a destructive level. I mean , the president can do far better. I believe if dad were here , he would certainly be precipitating a nonviolent crisis so that the nation would have to respond in a different way than it's responding today.
S7: And in chasing the dream , as I remember , it was economic justice.
S8: So we've got a lot of work to do. Um , now , when you look at the spending power , uh , the African American community spent over $1 billion , uh , last year and will spend over a billion , excuse me , $1 trillion. I'm sorry I said a billion. I'm in a trillion over $1 trillion. So if somehow we could begin to pool some of those resources. Um , then we could begin to address issues around housing , job creation , entrepreneurship. Those are the kind of things that happen to happen to happen to to bring society more in line. And the final and most important thing is that the rich cannot continue to get richer and richer , and the poor get poorer and poorer without something exploding in our society. None of us want to see an explosion. And so when 1% of the population makes or takes 60% of the wealth , that's remedy for disaster. We've got to find a way to create opportunities at lower levels , because in this nation , in this world , I believe there's an abundance. I don't believe we embrace the abundance at this point. And so I'm not saying that everyone should be rich. What I am saying is everyone in the United States of America should be able to have decent education , should be able to have a decent job , should be able to have a decent home. A decent home doesn't have to be a 5000 square foot home. It could be a 500 square foot home , but decent shelter is necessary. Should have health care and should have justice.
S1: That was a portion of my 2018 conversation with Martin Luther King the third , who is the oldest son of Doctor Martin Luther King Jr. You can listen to the full conversation at KPBS. That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
