S1: Welcome in San Diego. I'm Andrew Bowen in for Jade Hindman. On today's show , a new documentary explores how California's gang laws have impacted communities of color. We'll speak with two leaders who helped produce the film. This is KPBS Midday Edition. Connecting our communities through conversation. Over two decades ago , a California law passed allowing for the criminalization of anyone who may have connections to gangs. The documentary California Story explores the impact of those laws and gang documentation in communities across the state. Here's a part of the trailer.
S2: Raise your hand if you've ever had a negative interaction with the police.
S3: You see an old or I almost don't recognize you anymore.
S4: I was shot in my mother's backyard when I was 15. We called the police and never came.
S5: The police is really like sharks. And the streets is the water. It's just always been them against us.
S6: Violence is a condoned act according to the history of this country.
S4: Going to jail is normal.
S7: I know I'm going. I just don't know when. And I don't know for how long.
S8: I was wanted for nine murders in the state of California. I laughed at first. Like I haven't killed anybody , right? But I definitely ain't killed nine people.
S1: That was a clip from the trailer of the documentary film California Story. I'm joined now by Khalid Alexander. He's the executive producer of the film and the founder and president of pillars of the community , a nonprofit that helps build community in Southeast San Diego. And Leila Aziz is also with us. She's featured in the film and also works with pillars of the community. Khalid. Laila. welcome both to Midday Edition.
S9: And thank you for having us.
S10: Thank you. Khalid.
S1: Khalid. The film was several years in the making. Tell us what the initial inspiration behind it was.
S9: Well , the it was kind of two things that came together around the same time , the biggest of which is then District Attorney Bonnie Duman is rounded up and charged 33 African-American males with 30 , 50 years to life in prison under an obscure penal code called 182.5. I found out about this when I met with Brandon Tiny du Duncan. At the time we were working on a CD. We wanted to interview him and have him be on this disc , doing kind of pushing positivity , and found out he wasn't incarcerated. When I asked him what he was locked up for , he says , I don't know. They're saying , and maybe it had something to do with my lyrics , but we really don't know. And that's when we really began to dig into these gang laws that the district attorney was using in order to charge men who hadn't actually been accused of the crime itself , but because of this obscure penal code was able to do it , recognizing that something that so few people know about gang documentation enhancements was using to really impact the lives of not only these individuals , but everybody outside of there , was really the impetus and realizing , hey , we really have to do something in order to address the narrative and what it means to be a gang member and what some of the consequences of California gang laws are having on real human beings mothers , fathers , brothers and sisters.
S1: Now , do you have a personal experience that that you drew on in telling this story? Can you talk about that?
S9: Yeah , it's funny because it wasn't until really midway through the documentary that I remember being pulled over with my friends as we were walking down the street , couldn't even drive at the time. And being asked by police officers what gang we were from and I , neither me or my friends , were any more or less gang members than one another. But I remember me going into the officers for I'm a straight-A student , you know , all of these types of things And my friends kind of in a bravado , just saying I'm from such and such gang and everything. What we didn't know is that was kind of the beginning of the creation of a gang database that was being put together throughout California to really target young black and brown boys for mass incarceration.
S1: Leila , you grew up in San Diego. Can you share some of your own story and how you and your community were impacted by these issues?
S10: Yes , I grew up in southeast San Diego , went to all the schools there. They would have gang days , gang sweep days. So Tuesdays and Thursdays the police would be out there and they'd be corralling black and brown young men and handcuffing them and a few of the women who were with them. It became almost like when you see cop , um , cops and robbers or what they used to call the cowboys and Indians. That's what the neighborhood was like. The police against the people that actually lived in that community. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. And when did you start seeing this as or do you see it as a race issue? I mean , was there sort of a targeting of the black community , in particular in San Diego?
S10: You always know it , but you can't articulate it when you grow up in it. Not until later. And we started really pulling the data and we started putting in public records , requests , acts. Did we realize that 98% of the people who are documented in a gang are black and brown people? Hmm.
S1: Hmm. Now , there are different definitions for what constitutes a gang under the law or just in common , you know , conversation. How would you both define what is a gang?
S9: Well , the way that we would define gangs in the way that the legal system defines what a gang is , I think are are very different. But right now , if we're looking at like the Cao Gang database , for example , or the way that they document people of being gangs , they have a list of nine criteria. One of those criteria could be just like when I was growing up , kids saying , I'm from a gang , right? And so that can add you as , as things. Other ones are a lot more kind of , uh. Innocuous meaning. Were you seen talking to a known gang member? Where are you wearing certain clothing that can be used or a certain color that can be. So essentially the these nine criteria are so broad that anybody in California can be documented. It just so happens that it was black and brown people that they were targeting , and the neighborhoods that they came from for the documentation itself.
S1: Layla , anything to add to that?
S10: No , it's totally right. When we told the story of Brian Mason here , he was documented because he went to Lincoln High School. There colors were green. That was the first hit. Then he was at a taco shop with a community member. He lived around in there in the drive through , and the police stopped them and did another field interview card. That's how he became documented as a gang member , just simply for being where he was from.
S1: And this concept of gangs , even the word itself , has been weaponized over the years. Right? Can you tell me about how you see that , Layla?
S10: Well , if you go to court and they say he's a gang member. The presumption of guilt is stronger for a jury. We saw that a lot. And that's why we worked on policy to change that. When you're documented , you're stopped by the police often and you're searched by the police more. But if we look at , like Khalid said , who can be documented? That could be anyone. The Little Rascals , The Goonies , the kids from there. All of those people meet the criteria for gang documentation. They just aren't documented. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. Khalid. This film explores surveillance and game documentation , as we've been talking about. And you mentioned the Kal Gang database. Um , how does that documentation of supposed gang members work? And what's the impact on the community? Yeah.
S9: Yeah. Well , you know , it's interesting. I heard the interview ahead with Seth and the Trust Coalition , and it's really dealing with the same thing , essentially what the gang database did. Collect the list of folks who wouldn't even know that they had been documented yet. And it wouldn't be until they're actually in court facing the judge and that it could have been , you know , they were being accused of , you know , stealing a cell phone , stealing a pencil , stealing food or something like that. And then they would find out while they were in court that they were documented gang members. And because of that , they were subject to an enhancement. And that enhancement could take something that could have been a misdemeanor and turn it actually into a felony. So on the one hand , it's just the list of gang members , but it doesn't become which , you know , if you have a list of folks , that's not a big deal. It doesn't actually end up being detrimental until you're in court , and all of a sudden you're facing a completely different sentence that somebody they're not accusing of being a gang member would have committed for the exact same crime. Mhm.
S1: In this film , we see the relationship between law enforcement and these communities and how there's certainly a lot of tension there. How has the gang documentation law in California led to , as you see it , overpolicing in these communities? Leila , call it either of you. Okay.
S10: Okay. I'll take it. Um , well , the gang units don't operate in San Diego from different divisions. They operate from downtown. So they come into the community , and they just go. And they police multiple communities that normally have black , brown , and AAPI people in them. And they saturate those communities , and they're pretty much a specialized unit that's very dangerous , very aggressive and very violent. So when we're looking at , um , the policing and how those relationships have changed , it's really a hatred because when you see them coming , you know , your rights are going to be violated. You know , regardless of what you do , that's not going to change. And there's really no oversight because they don't even come from a division you can go to and complain. And then of course , you guys know what's happening. When you do complain , they're just shredded or put into miscellaneous. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. And call it anything to add to that?
S9: No , I think I mean , Layla does did a good job of of explaining it. I mean , the one thing that I think people should understand as often as like , why are you advocating for gang members? Why are you advocating for criminals? And really , we're not saying that gang members are angels. What we're saying is that they're human beings like anybody else , and they should be treated like human beings just because they're proud of the neighborhood they live in , just because they wear a certain color , just because they talk to other people , doesn't mean that they're in any way subhuman. And that that treatment of certain neighborhoods and certain people is a part of a long history of law enforcement in the United States , targeting a certain people and ignoring the same behaviors from others.
S1: And it seems like there's the issue you have is , you know , looking at an individual and their connection to a larger community and seeing that as a crime rather than just a person being in a community , having relationships with people who might be committing crimes but them , not themselves , not actually breaking the law in any kind of way , is that right?
S9: Well , exactly. So Aaron Harvey and Brandon Duncan Tupa , the people who got wrapped up in this , 33 men that were arrested in court. The district attorney said , we don't think they shot anybody. We don't think they even knew the people who shot or anything about it. But because of this obscure penal code , 182.5 that was passed in a in the year 2000 under prop 21 , we can charge anybody who is allegedly from an alleged gang with any crimes that have allegedly been committed.
S1: So if greater policing or harsher sentences or , you know , greater surveillance is not the solution to gang violence , which I think both of you agree does exist , what is the solution? Leila.
S10: There are many solutions. One of the first ones that we really look at as community building. When you build up the community , the natural resources in that community , you automatically get public safety. When you empower the community on the ground who are right there and you build these. Hi , can I borrow a cup of sugar? Those are the things that those relationships are , the things that empower communities. Mental health , substance abuse , treatment , not even getting into the substance abuse treatment , not the school to prison pipeline. All of these things we've heard over and over , but they've never been truly invested in having communities , having people. And really , even if you take all the social service providers out , leave education and community , I think with the community really being built , that's where safety is.
S1: And Kyla , can you tell me about the work that pillars of the community does to , you know , try and create that? Yeah.
S9: Yeah. Before I do that , I think it's important to point out , I think looking at the way that we spend our budgets in San Diego and other cities across the California is really important currently. Last time I looked , we pay the sheriffs 1.4 close to $1.4 billion , right? In order to punish people , we give San Diego Police Department close to $1 billion to do all of these things. If you gave us 10% of that and actually invested that money in trying to prevent crimes and supporting these kids and supporting the the neighborhoods that they come from and giving services that would immediately decrease not only violence , but other forms of crime at pillars of the community. We tried to address those things. We tried to provide a community in a space where kids , regardless of their gang affiliation or not , can feel safe and support them and let them know that , hey , we value you as a human being. And because we value as a human being , we want to invest in you and your potential success so that you can , like everybody else , become a contributing member to society.
S1: Khalid , you recently held a private screening of this film with community leaders , elected officials. What was that like and what conversations did you observe coming out of that film?
S9: Yeah , I mean , we were really excited. We had Chesa Boudin , the former district attorney of San Francisco , who also joined us for the panel , as well as a professor , Yale professor , Doctor Elizabeth Hinton , who's wrote a number of amazing books. and for me , and we had a majority of a lot of public defenders who had had showed up. And I think that it was the conversations that I had talked about how enlightening it was. I think it's so easy , even when we are in the legal system , even when we are in legal defense , even when we do all of these things , how much we've been impacted by TV shows , by music and everything like that , to look at kids that have been labeled as documented gang members , as criminals , as somehow less than human. And I think what the film really does is it emphasizes , hey , these are all human beings. They're kids just like anybody else. They're adults like anybody else. And when we treat one another with respect , when we support one another , when we show that the community is there to support it , that these people actually thrive. You know , Aaron Harvey ended up transferring after the district attorney literally tried to throw his life away , ended up going to San Diego City College , transferring to UC Berkeley , and now is involved in helping other people skip the school to prison pipeline and go from school to college to to , you know , higher education. Um , and so I think the documentary does a good job of just kind of exploring the issues and exploring. Hey , sometimes being a tough on crime is actually counterproductive to public safety. And if we really want to address these issues , I think we're all concerned about violence. If we really want to understand these issues and address them , we have to look at the roots of the problem.
S1: Have any of the subjects in this documentary gotten to see the film , and if so , how have they received it?
S9: Yeah , I mean , from what I understand is when we came up with the idea of the film and I reached out to the director , David Kuhn , who's out of New York , former public defender , and started working on it. And he did an amazing job , really , in producing. What the final outcome was , is in retrospect , everybody said , man , I thought you were crazy. I didn't know what you all were talking about. What are you going to be doing with gangs? What are you going to be doing? It didn't make any sense. And coming out of the theater , how powerful they actually found it. And a lot of the stuff is triggering because when you when you've been told you're a monster your whole life and then you see something saying , actually , you know what? It wasn't your fault. You're not a monster. There's a number of systemic issues that led to your incarceration in these types of things that can actually be painful , both healing and painful at the same time. So the response has been really , really powerful , both from gang members as well as larger community.
S1: We got about a minute left. Layla , anything to add about the reception of this film in the community?
S10: Yes , I'm one of the people. When Khalid said he's doing this , I thought he was a little bit off and I wondered how that was going to be done. But it was , and it was beautifully done. The people that are in the documentary , so many of them have dealt with gang documentation , criminalization , all of those things. And it gives them a feeling of empowerment is what I'm hearing. Hmm.
S1: Hmm. Well , I've been speaking with Khalid Alexander. He's the executive producer of California Story and founder of pillars of the community. I've also been speaking with Leila Aziz. She's the director of operations for pillars of the community. Khalid , Khalid and Leila , thank you so much for joining us.
S9: Thank you for having us. And Andrew , I'm a big fan of your work and thanks for all that you do and PBS. Everybody should donate to KPBS because we need to keep programs like this going.
S1: We'd love an altar call at the end. Thank you so much to both of you. And that's our show for today. I'm your host , Andrew Bowen in for Jade Hindman. Thanks for listening to Midday Edition. Have a great day.
