S1: Welcome in San Diego , it's Jade Hindman. On today's show , climate research in San Diego helped lay the foundation for EPA regulation on greenhouse gases. Well , now the Trump administration is replacing that regulation. And local scientists say the decision will have grave consequences. This is KPBS Midday Edition. Connecting our communities through conversation. So last week , President Donald Trump announced the repeal of a major EPA regulation on greenhouse gases. It's known as the endangerment finding. Environmental groups and scientists say the decision could have grave implications for the climate. Climate research in San Diego actually helped lay the foundation for that government regulation. And joining me now to talk about that is Tami Murga. She's environment reporter for KPBS. Tami , welcome. Hi.
S2: Hi. Thank you for having me.
S1: Glad to have you on. Tell me about the EPA's endangerment finding. I mean , how has it influenced environmental policy since 2009 ? Yes.
S2: So the so-called endangerment finding is a really a scientific and legal determination that the EPA has used since then to regulate greenhouse gas emissions. And that determination was made , as you mentioned , in 2009 and under the Obama administration , and it was really the federal government's first official acknowledgment that greenhouse gases , you know , like carbon dioxide and methane , pose a threat to public health and the environment. So that was a big deal. And since then , you know , once they were categorized as pollutants , agencies used it as the basis to regulate all sorts of things. Um , for example , setting greenhouse gas limits for power plants and trucks and cars , as well as permitting requirements for large fossil fuel sources. And all of that was really influential in moving toward all sorts of things like we see today. Right , like the production of cleaner vehicles and other green technologies.
S1: Well , and of course , last week , President Trump announced the EPA will revoke that finding.
S2: Um , and I think it's , it's really this , um , disappointment , um , about the rollback itself , just how far we've kind of come , but there's also been a lot of some mixed opinions about , well , will this really lower costs for consumers , for manufacturers , which is something that the administration really pushed for. In their announcement last week.
S1: The head of the EPA , Lee Zeldin , pointed to red tape as one reason behind ending the endangerment finding. But talk more about that. I mean , what is the government's reasoning behind this decision ? Yes.
S2: So that red tape they mentioned has been a central part to the Trump administration's broader argument for repealing the endangerment finding. So last week , he said all of these regulations have led to financial burdens on manufacturers and consumers. He specifically mentioned car manufacturers and said that without this finding , they will no longer be required to measure and report vehicle greenhouse gas emissions , and they really won't be pressured to continue making electric vehicles. And that goes for consumers , too. He said Americans should have the option to buy electric or diesel or whatever , and they've mentioned that this would really all cost consumers about $1.3 trillion. But there's been some arguments that the administration hasn't showed how they've come up with those figures. And there's also this legal standpoint. The EPA has also argued that the Clean Air Act , which is what has been used to regulate greenhouse gas emissions , is meant for regulating pollutants that linger in the air. You and I breathe like smog , and it doesn't give the EPA the authority to regulate greenhouse gases that stick around for a really long time in the atmosphere , like carbon dioxide.
S1: You reported that the foundations of that endangerment finding date back , actually to San Diego climate research , specifically this thing called the Keeling Curve.
S2: So I'll tell you , it's , it's the , um , the late Charles David Keeling started the CO2 program here at Scripps Institution of Oceanography back in 1956. It was started there , but it was in Hawaii , actually , where he took measurements of carbon dioxide , I believe , in 1958 , and discovered that CO2 in the atmosphere has been rising , hence the name The curve , but also found that human activity , like burning fossil fuels is accelerating that increase. And the data shows us that that continues to be the case. So the Keeling curve is really this daily record and measurement that has been vital in the scientific community. And really , it served as this important basis in all of the research that was done to establish the endangerment finding. Um , so , yeah , it was pretty , pretty cool to to learn that , that this , you know , uh , federal policy that was used for such a long time has roots here in San Diego.
S1: Oh , absolutely. Also cool. You spoke to scientist Ralph Keeling. I mean , what did he tell you about his research ? Yeah.
S2: So I got to sit down with Charles son , uh , Ralph Keeling. He runs the program now , and he told me that at first it wasn't really something that he envisioned doing. But , you know , he grew up with his father and seeing , you know , like typical scientists , all these bubbles and all of these equipment that he has. And it was just really hard to not think , wow , this is this is really important work. I have to somehow continue these. So he explains pretty clearly how iconic the Keeling Curve is. Let's let's listen.
S3: The Keeling curve was really the first clear evidence of human impacts at that scale of the global climate. And so it was the alarm bell that went off. Um , but it's also the pulse of the planet. We're seeing what's going on. It is our it is our bottom line. So bending the curve means bending the Keeling curve.
S1: So what are killing's concerns about the EPA repealing this endangerment finding and how might how might that actually impact future climate research ? Yeah.
S2: So. Well , you know , of course , he just straight up said he's concerned about the rollback. Um , he said the the administration says it's no longer going to regulate these greenhouse gas emissions , but that doesn't mean the harm to public health ends. He says CO2 is not going down. In fact , it's rising even faster than ever. And he also worries about what this means for the rest of the world. He said , you know , the signals that the US gives to other countries about how to behave are just as important as anything we do here domestically. But , you know , I think something to , um , that really stuck with me was he said that our work continues. We have to continue collecting data and studying this like the learning doesn't end. Um , regardless of policy , the science stays the same.
S1: Well , much like his concerns , local groups are also worried and specifically worried about the impact this could have on San Diego and the South Bay. Um , what did they have to say ? Yeah.
S2: So last week I also spoke with the Sierra Club's San Diego chapter and with the Climate Action campaign , and they really worry about how this , uh , repeal of the Endangerment Act , uh , finding , will impact communities already burdened with the impacts of climate change like flooding , wildfires , sea level rise , etc. but Mark West with the San Diego Sierra Club brought up specifically the communities near the Tijuana River. Yes , we know this is a river polluted with sewage and toxic chemicals , etc. and you know the root cause of that problem. really is infrastructure. But when we have these really powerful storms like we have had in the past two years , um , this river floods with , um , it overflows and it reaches community streets. So it's all mixed up with this pollution. And he really worries that these communities , who often don't have the means to , you know , relocate to a better area , will continue to see these impacts if we continue to , uh , burn more fossil fuels. If , you know , these climate regulations are just we don't have them anymore. So he's really concerned about them in particular.
S1: Um , well , looking forward , a number of groups have already promised to challenge the EPA's decision in court. Talk to me about that. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. So states like California have already indicated that. And Mark also mentioned a little bit about this. The Sierra Club , um , has as well , which is interesting because the Sierra Club was among the first to challenge climate standards under the Clean Air Act , way back in 2002 , when he said. That really played an important role in later having the Supreme Court , um , make the establishment back in 2007 on the endangerment finding. And then , um , what what led the Obama administration to establish this ? So the organization says it's considering taking legal action against this. And I'd imagine so many other environmental groups will as well.
S1: I've been speaking with Tami Murga. She's KPBS environment reporter. Tami , thank you as always.
S2: Thank you for having me.
S1: That's our show for today. I'm your host , Jade Hindman. Thanks for tuning in to Midday Edition. Be sure to have a great day on purpose , everyone.
