Scientists launch new trial for long COVID treatment

S1: Welcome in San Diego. It's Jade Hindman. On today's show , we'll tell you about the new research being done on GLP one's impact on long Covid. This is KPBS Midday Edition. Connecting our communities through conversation. Welcome back to KPBS Midday Edition I'm Jade Hindman. Last week , scientists at Scripps Research launched a new treatment trial looking to address long Covid , known as Lockett. The trial will be entirely remote and test how a FDA approved drug could provide relief for symptoms. Doctor Eric Topol , executive vice president at Scripps Research Translational Institute , is here to talk about the trial and the state of long Covid research today. Doctor Topol , welcome back to the show.

S2: Thanks so much for having me join.

S1: So , you know , it's always a pleasure to have you on. Um , talk about the drug that is being tested here. Tour guide. It's also known as Zep Band.

S2: Apatite is a so-called GLP one family drug that has been used for weight loss. Um , also for diabetes , type two diabetes. But it's been found to have another a whole bunch of other , um , advantages in helping the liver , kidney , the heart , and even things like migraine headaches and rheumatoid arthritis and , um , reducing addiction. So it has a very functions well beyond what was conceived as that for weight loss.

S1:

S2: Turns out their main action is working to block inflammation throughout the body and in the brain. And even though they work as a gut hormone , the gut talks to the brain. And so it is really striking. There are receptors for this GLP on immune cells to block inflammation throughout the body. And that's what we're banking on as a potential benefit for all of these people that are suffering long Covid. Wow.

S1: Wow. And I know we're talking about long Covid here. But gosh could those implications are pretty far reaching.

S2: We've seen these anecdotal reports of people with autoimmune diseases that are getting marked relief , and previously couldn't find any drug that was helping them. So it looks that way. The enormity and breadth of the benefits of this class of drugs in many ways is just beginning. That is , we have many more of these hormones of the gut that we can mimic with either injectable drugs like Zeppelin or even pills that are coming along. And so there's combinations of them. So this is a really exciting and probably one of the most important drug classes that's ever been discovered. Wow.

S1: Wow. It is very fascinating.

S2: Half of that is over 500 people with long Covid. And that's people , of course , who have a medical certification of that diagnosis and significant symptoms that are ongoing , irrespective of when they began during the pandemic. So this trial is moving the fastest I've ever been involved with. It's really extraordinary. That is in part reflective of how many people are out there who are incapacitated or suffering from this condition. Hmm.

S1: Hmm. Well , you know , I mean , say the trial is successful. How might that affect accessibility to the drug for people who are suffering from long Covid ? I know there recently , Donald Trump made an announcement that the cost of GLP one would be lowered. Talk to me a little bit about that.

S2: Yeah , that's a really important point because these drugs are still pretty darn expensive. They've come down quite a bit from if you had to pay out of pocket over $1,000 a month to now , between 4 and $500 a month. But now , as you as you mentioned just last week , we're seeing the price potentially get down to around $150. But because of the stiff competition with many more of these drugs and alternatives coming in the times ahead , the price will keep coming down. And when it gets to pills which achieve a very similar effect , then it will be far less expensive. So the main thing here is to identify a treatment. We don't have any treatments for long Covid that have been shown to be helpful and if we can get the treatment , will work on getting the price down. Because these so many millions of people around the US and around the world have really been hit hard and had no relief. And this is our best shot. This is the drug we pick that has the best chance of making a difference. It's not going to work for everyone , but hopefully , at least in a subset of people , we'll see some marked improvement. Hmm.

S1: Hmm. You know , long Covid can present in so many different ways. There are over 200 documented symptoms currently.

S2: And then if you're treating it , this blood test reflects that we're making some real improvement. So without that type of what we call biomarker , we're relying on patient's symptoms mostly even though there's a list of as long as 200. As you mentioned , most of these are related to profound fatigue , lack of exercise tolerance , uh , brain fog , um , you know , so and and pain , whether it's in the chest or in joints , muscles. I mean , this the symptoms are pretty common among the group of people that have long Covid. It it knocks them out. And so we will know because of the the criteria that have been set up to gauge symptomatology and people with long Covid , whether the treatment as compared with placebo , who are , you know , half and half of the people enrolled in the trial , will see how it is affecting their quality of life and their symptoms.

S1: So say someone wants to participate in the trial.

S2: They carry this diagnosis because otherwise , you know , we're putting people in a trial , especially , as you mentioned , without the lack of a biomarker or blood test. We've got to be certain that all the people that are enrolling are people who are who have this condition , um , you know , people that would go into the trial , uh , just to get access to a drug , for example , without the actual diagnosis , that would be a real problem. Hmm.

S1: Hmm.

S2: I mean , I think it's a clinical diagnosis , like many things , like things like there are many conditions that there's not a blood test. Like , for example , Parkinson's disease. Um , so many conditions that we diagnose clinically , this is the same. So basically someone comes in , they've had a definite diagnosis of Covid by rapid tests or molecular test PCR. And then at some point , whether it's with the initial infection or even weeks later , they get profoundly tired. They can't work. They can't function. They might even , you know , have a hard time just getting out of bed or out of a chair. And they have all sorts of other symptoms , as mentioned. So it's a clinical diagnosis that affects it can affect almost every system in the body , but it's easy. Once you know the person's got an infection that's bona fide as well as the , um , the symptoms that follow , uh , it is more common in , in women , which goes along with this immune system being at the root of it. It's also more common in younger people , those who are in their , let's say 30s 40s rather than older folks. So there's a lot of descriptors that we can use to help be more confident about a diagnosis. Wow.

S1: Wow. Well , you know , I mean , it's been five years since the pandemic began , and there's still no relief for people experiencing long Covid , which has really led to this , um , this sense of frustration and desperation among people seeking help. You mentioned earlier that there's been a big response to this. Talk more about that. I mean , are people feeling more hopeful ? Yes.

S2: I mean , the response to getting into the trial has been extraordinary. So there are a few reasons for that. One , there's never been a large trial of a potential candidate drug for long Covid. This is a 1000 person trial. So that's one thing that reflects hope that we're finally getting into the trial that are large enough to detect a benefit , potential benefit. Second , this trial is done all at home. So it's remote. That is , you know , anyone from the United States who qualifies could be in it. So they don't have to go to clinics. They don't have to go through all sorts of hassles , which is really difficult for people with long Covid. So it's a it's a participant friendly trial , which makes it even all the more appealing. And then thirdly , it's testing what is the most promising drug that we know that knocks out inflammation in the brain and the body that helps to get a person to immune system on track. And so we think that also , you know , has something to do with the remarkable enthusiasm for people to enroll. It's a one year follow up , getting the study medication. And hopefully about a year or so from now , we'll know whether it worked. Hmm.

S1: Hmm. You know , more than a more than 400 million people around the world have been impacted and continue to be impacted by long Covid.

S2: Uh , it doesn't at all measure up with the burden. That's profound. The number of people. These are often , as mentioned , typically young people who who aren't able to work , uh , who , you know , really become disabled. So many of them , of course , there's a spectrum , but many of them are at the really hard , uh , Suffering end of that spectrum. So we're not putting in resources. Uh , the the government did do a major grant called recover of over $1 billion through the NIH , uh , for long Covid , but unfortunately , none of the no large trial was initiated throughout the few years that that grant was available. So we it's delayed , it's insufficient. And hopefully , you know , we're going to make up for lost time here. That's our effort. If whatever we get out of this trial , it will only be the first of trials we hope to move forward with , uh , because there are so many other potential candidate drugs interventions to help these people. And we're also indebted we relied on philanthropy to be able to fund this trial , the Schmidt Initiative for Long Covid. Uh , that's from Wendy and Eric Schmidt and also Lilly. To be able to supply what is in a very expensive drug and placebo , which they're not funding the trial , but they are at least funding supplying the drug. So it's been hard to pull those together. But I we all think of course it's a worthwhile initiative and hopefully it's going to make a difference.

S1:

S2: Edu uh , you can find the long Covid trial. Uh , and so that would be a way if someone wants to enroll to get right into the , uh , the requirements and and actual participation.

S1: All right. And of course , we will have a link to that on our website , as well as any information about , um , donating for this cause as well. I've been speaking with Doctor Eric Topol , executive vice president at the Scripps Research Translational Institute. Doctor Topol , thank you so very much.

S2: Thank you.